The cheek of Man Utd

[shefcanary 2,412]

13 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

It is to all of our detriment that the country as a whole is so London-centric, Germany is perhaps the best example of a major developed country in Europe having multiple key economic centres.

Germany is a federal state though, with strong regional government and decentralised budgets. Which is what the Tories have attempted to replicate in a way with their mayoral system, which certainly in the north takes away control from strong mainly labour controlled councils and puts them into the hands of supposedly more independent individuals (giving rise to Mayoral Combined Authority or "MCA's"). Except it hasn't really happened yet as most MCA's are labour held in the North still, apart from Teesside and lo, look what has happened there with all sorts of accusations of bribery and corruption. Plus ca change.

Anyway, as I said Burnham now holds the development purse strings for capital projects in and around Manchester, at the beginning of the week his MCA agreed to a publicly seeded, but privately managed, complete redevelopment of Trafford Park, which has Old Trafford at its heart. So one way or another that stadium was going to get money spent on it via a publicly seeded initiative anyway, all Ratcliffe is doing is being the opportunist and seeking to make a new stadium at the heart of the whole redevelopment, which I think he probably will achieve.

As I said before, I hope Attanasio can do similar in Norwich!

[JonnyJonnyRowe 447]

9 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Germany is a federal state though, with strong regional government and decentralised budgets. Which is what the Tories have attempted to replicate in a way with their mayoral system, which certainly in the north takes away control from strong mainly labour controlled councils and puts them into the hands of supposedly more independent individuals (giving rise to Mayoral Combined Authority or "MCA's"). Except it hasn't really happened yet as most MCA's are labour held in the North still, apart from Teesside and lo, look what has happened there with all sorts of accusations of bribery and corruption. Plus ca change.

Anyway, as I said Burnham now holds the development purse strings for capital projects in and around Manchester, at the beginning of the week his MCA agreed to a publicly seeded, but privately managed, complete redevelopment of Trafford Park, which has Old Trafford at its heart. So one way or another that stadium was going to get money spent on it via a publicly seeded initiative anyway, all Ratcliffe is doing is being the opportunist and seeking to make a new stadium at the heart of the whole redevelopment, which I think he probably will achieve.

As I said before, I hope Attanasio can do similar in Norwich!

I am a supporter of real and meaningful regional devolution. But what the Tory's are really doing (largely) is consolidating small councils into a smaller number of unitary authorities so that they operate more efficiently, like in North Yorkshire, and selling this as 'devolution' when in reality it just a cost cutting measure so they can consolidate departments.

What would be real devolution in my eyes would be regional parliaments. East of England Parliament, Yorkshire Parliament, North West Parliament, a true federal model like Germany, which only the Lib Dems have really ever strongly advocated.

Now lets work out how we can get tax money to help with the city stand. Who can we bribe?

Edited February 22 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[canarydan23 4,060]

4 hours ago, king canary said:

This is weirdly the norm in American sports so maybe he got the idea from the Glazers? I've never understood tax payer money going on stadiums for multi billion dollar sports teams.

It's not quite so weird in the US though, as it's franchise-based and states and cities will pledge all manner of goodies and public cash to entice sports franchises to move to their city because of the economic benefit it brings. So there is a financial logic to it. Nevada forked out over half a million quid to get the Raiders into Las Vegas.

[shefcanary 2,412]

58 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's not quite so weird in the US though, as it's franchise-based and states and cities will pledge all manner of goodies and public cash to entice sports franchises to move to their city because of the economic benefit it brings. So there is a financial logic to it. Nevada forked out over half a million quid to get the Raiders into Las Vegas.

Therein lies the rub. What would Norwich be like without the football club? 

[Addick/Canary 73]

Ipswich? But with 2 cathedrals.

Edited February 22 by Addick/Canary

[RobJames 881]

It would have made more sense to build the new natuonal stadium outside Birmingham - an area with easy access to transport and as near to as many clubs as possible.

However that would-be against the recognition that Wembley is regarded as some kind of sacred place and any final, semi final, international is the lesser (as far as fans are concerned) for being there. Comparisons with US stadia are almost worthless. There, what happens on the pitch is way down the list of importance when against gorging on junk food, and watching all manner of tomfoolery, marching bands, fireworks etc.

If only using City as an example fans do not want to turn up a few hours early then sit for another 5 hours or more.  Given the couple of hours involved most do not feel the need to eat either. Similarly, drinking is done away from the ground. Carrow Road does not have the facilities to  cater for all those wanting to drink before the game..

Similarly, the idea of ground expansion is flawed. At an average of around £400 per ticket (season) take and extra 4,00 seat (redevelopment of the Main Stand) that would only generate approx £1.6m extra per season. That assumes maximum capacity and current prices. I doubt that figure would even cover the interest payments on a loan big enough to demolish and rebuilt a 2 tier stadium. And that also assumes continuous (almost) PL membership over that loan period. It also assumes nothing else happens, as seen today when 'yellows' is to close, bar match days. There are not plane loads flying in from the continent to watch City, and a few seasons outside of the PL would see crowd figures drop, and we would be back to the days of 'kids for a quid' to fill the ground. That is the harsh reality, City supporters or not.

Pound for pound the academy has been far more lucrative than any ground development. And the greatest income is TV derived. That is why the club recognises the importance of promotion. City could lose every game in the PL, and they would still be a quarter of a billion up in revenue. To imagine then that the club would therefore be guided by a few malcontents waving phones and booing is absurd. Likewise the squad. A season in the PL could set them up for life, especially in taken back to S America/Africa.

Money talks, as it always has. It has just got bigger, that's all.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,167]

4 hours ago, Addick/Canary said:

Ipswich? But with 2 cathedrals.

Plus a castle, a university, an airport, much better nightlife, much better shopping and countless more historic buildings...............

[......and Smith must score. 1,347]

22 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Plus a castle, a university, an airport, much better nightlife, much better shopping and countless more historic buildings...............

……..Alan Partridge

[RobJames 881]

2 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

……..Alan Partridge

Both regional TV stations

[Grando 263]

1 hour ago, RobJames said:

Both regional TV stations

I’m really not sure that’s a plus anymore seeing the virtual non-existence of local TV these days!

[RobJames 881]

9 minutes ago, Grando said:

I’m really not sure that’s a plus anymore seeing the virtual non-existence of local TV these days!

It was a recognition of the importance of the respective places.  A City v a town

[splendidrush 700]

21 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

 And Man Utd fixtures are important to the local economy in Manchester, loads fly in from Ireland and beyond, and Asian tourists buy tickets, Manchester hotels get booked out for Utd home games. So we should be overall supportive of the idea of England having a Northern base.

..... I remember a game at CR against Man U, 10 minutes from the end the announcer came on to inform the visiting fans that the last train to London was at 6.20, or whatever, a huge cheer went up....

Manchester United are a franchise, as you've pointed out, a large proportion of their fanbase are not from Manchester they could play anywhere and sell out.... we don't need to be financing another stadium in Manchester..   

I'd be more inclined to build something in Birmingham,  our second City, large population,  plenty of Clubs to use it, concerts etc and with Villa becoming a force again perhaps that could be a way forward. Regards England,  it's more central for players and fans alike.....

Edited February 23 by splendidrush

[Paul101 93]

17 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Therein lies the rub. What would Norwich be like without the football club? 

easier to drive round and shop every other week

other than that it would make little to no difference

[......and Smith must score. 1,347]

1 hour ago, Paul101 said:

easier to drive round and shop every other week

other than that it would make little to no difference

 It seems to make little difference traffic-wise anyway.

Whenever I drive to Norwich even on non-football days it’s a b*oody nightmare.

[splendidrush 700]

I used to be a London cabbie.... Norwich doesn't have traffic,  period.....

[Paul101 93]

22 hours ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

 It seems to make little difference traffic-wise anyway.

Whenever I drive to Norwich even on non-football days it’s a b*oody nightmare.

council planning 😉

[Yobocop 1,099]

New Trafford…

i thank you. And goodnight