Norfolk and the General Election

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

5 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - Clearly some pests / vermin need to be controlled or culled - in a humane and effective manner but not for 'fun'!

 

What's wrong with someone enjoying culling an animal? It makes no difference to the animal at all whether its  killer is having fun or wringing their hands over it in a crisis is conscience.

This is exactly what I'm saying about tolerance. You might not like it, but if it doesn't affect you, why do you feel the need to interfere? Stopping half a dozen foxes being chased and killed every weekend won't stop millions of animals being killed gruesomely by other animals on a daily basis. It's an absurd, pointless fight for the sake of a pretty weak moral case clearly more motivated by a desire to control the actions of others perceived as 'sinful' than any real interest in animal welfare.

 

Edited April 4 by littleyellowbirdie

[dylanisabaddog 5,990]

19 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Personally, I've never hunted and I've never fished. I once went out with a friend with an air rifle shooting at birds when I was about 14 and purposely aimed to miss because I didn't like the idea of killing a bird.

 

Or to put it another way, they don't want people to go after them the same way they go after fox hunters.

Honestly, I'm with you in not understanding it. I don't like needless cruelty.

You're calling me ignorant, but ultimately you have no defense at all for being utterly self-righteous about condemning people who enjoy killing foxes for sport because they happen to enjoy it, even though it actually is fulfilling a pest control function at the same time, while happily dismissing gratuitous cruelty to fish for reasons only known to yourself when sport fishing throwing the fish back serves no purpose whatsoever other than a cruel form of entertainment. So why would you be so enthused about going after one and not the other?

I think your comment about 'lumping together two different sets of people' betrays what this is all about. Your motivation against fox hunting is motivated by spite towards 'toffs' having fun rather than any real cares about animal welfare. It'd be 'stupid' to go after sport fishing because they'd alienate a fair number of their voters starting that sort of culture war. It's left-wing populism that Labour is trotting out as a rabble rouser ahead of a general election, to distract from not having much to say about the real issues that people care about that haven't been addressed under the Conservatives, but in reality probably won't be addressed under Labour given their reticence about talking about them at this stage.

 

Once again you are jumping to conclusions. I have no objection to toffs enjoying themselves. I object to fox hunting because it is barbaric. 

If you think foxes are vermin then the effective way to deal with them is to lamp them. The landowners in my vicinity rarely bother because the fox is good at keeping the rabbit population under control. 

I'm highly amused that you claim not to like needless cruelty but also have no problem with fox hunting and earlier in this conversation rejoiced in the fact that your cat killed a bird. Then you go on to say you don't like killing them. You're very confused aren't you?

[TheGunnShow 7,254]

This is actually why I've a lot of respect for vegans even though I like the taste of meat far too much to change over to their lifestyle - they're ultimately pretty consistent. 

Although some sorts are spamming the FB pages of anything on the Faroe Islands re. the grindadrap. I admit, watching the bay turn red with blood isn't exactly endearing but then again, how is most of the meat on my supermarket shelf produced? Even when you talk about free-range eggs/grass-fed cattle, I'm seriously hard-pushed to think of anything more free-range than a bloody whale!

The stronger argument against whale hunting, at least for me personally, is the high level of heavy metals such as cadmium in the meat.

[horsefly 5,281]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liz-truss-among-over-25-32535627?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Voters in South West Norfolk please note that your MP has spoken in parliament precisely ZERO times in 2024. 

Voters in South Norfolk please note that your MP has spoken in parliament precisely ZERO times in 2024

Voters in Great Yarmouth please note that your MP has spoken in parliament precisely ZERO times in 2024

Voters in Norwich North please note that your MP has spoken in parliament 4 times in 2024

Voters in Norwich South  please note that your MP has spoken in parliament 8 times in 2024

Voters in North West Norfolk please note that your MP has spoken in parliament 23 times in 2024

Voters in Mid Norfolk please note that your MP has spoken in parliament 43  times in 2024

Voters in Broadland please note that your MP has spoken in parliament 48 times in 2024

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,304]

22 minutes ago, horsefly said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liz-truss-among-over-25-32535627?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Voters in South West Norfolk please note that your MP has spoken in parliament precisely ZERO times in 2024. 

 

To be fair...that's probably for the best 😊

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 05/04/2024 at 09:12, TheGunnShow said:

This is actually why I've a lot of respect for vegans even though I like the taste of meat far too much to change over to their lifestyle - they're ultimately pretty consistent. 

Although some sorts are spamming the FB pages of anything on the Faroe Islands re. the grindadrap. I admit, watching the bay turn red with blood isn't exactly endearing but then again, how is most of the meat on my supermarket shelf produced? Even when you talk about free-range eggs/grass-fed cattle, I'm seriously hard-pushed to think of anything more free-range than a bloody whale!

The stronger argument against whale hunting, at least for me personally, is the high level of heavy metals such as cadmium in the meat.

The problem I have with vegans using the argument about the killing of animals as a reason for veganism, ignores the millions of animals that are killed on a daily basis during the process of growing and harvesting vegan food. Obviously, animals are not directly killed, but the farming techniques to grow cost food requires tons of pesticides spread on fields to kill pests that would otherwise devastate crops. Then crops have to be treated with weed-killers which also kills animals living in the soils, leaching into rivers and waterways and so poisoning aquatic creatures. And then the harvesting process tends to shred a million more animals or kill off millions that pass through chlorine baths and the such-like. 

The animals that vegan farming kills are not the lovable sheep and big-eyed cattle but lots wriggly, ugly-looking stuff, but these are the animals that are way more important for the natural ecosystem than a pig. If you kill all the worms in a field then material in the soil doesn't get processed and the soil loses its nutrition and nothing can grow unless you replenish the ground with artificial fertilisers. If you kill all the bees then nothing pollinates and you have no fruit, for example. So vegan farming is way more harmful to the natural ecosystem than animal farming.

Now the vegan will argue that the answer is organic farming. But the problem here is that organic farming is all low-scale and high cost farming. You cannot feed a nation using just organic practices as the end product is three times the price of non-organic stuff. Maybe fine if you are a middle-class dual-income family, not fine if you are  working-class low income person. Moreover, without animal husbandry there is no organic fertiliser for organic vegan farming, so you would be reliant on chemical fertilisers, killing more of those slithery, wriggley animals

You could probably achieve results on a small scale but that would require everybody digging up their back garden and growing their own fruit and veg.

[TheGunnShow 7,254]

8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The problem I have with vegans using the argument about the killing of animals as a reason for veganism, ignores the millions of animals that are killed on a daily basis during the process of growing and harvesting vegan food. Obviously, animals are not directly killed, but the farming techniques to grow cost food requires tons of pesticides spread on fields to kill pests that would otherwise devastate crops. Then crops have to be treated with weed-killers which also kills animals living in the soils, leaching into rivers and waterways and so poisoning aquatic creatures. And then the harvesting process tends to shred a million more animals or kill off millions that pass through chlorine baths and the such-like. 

The animals that vegan farming kills are not the lovable sheep and big-eyed cattle but lots wriggly, ugly-looking stuff, but these are the animals that are way more important for the natural ecosystem than a pig. If you kill all the worms in a field then material in the soil doesn't get processed and the soil loses its nutrition and nothing can grow unless you replenish the ground with artificial fertilisers. If you kill all the bees then nothing pollinates and you have no fruit, for example. So vegan farming is way more harmful to the natural ecosystem than animal farming.

Now the vegan will argue that the answer is organic farming. But the problem here is that organic farming is all low-scale and high cost farming. You cannot feed a nation using just organic practices as the end product is three times the price of non-organic stuff. Maybe fine if you are a middle-class dual-income family, not fine if you are  working-class low income person. Moreover, without animal husbandry there is no organic fertiliser for organic vegan farming, so you would be reliant on chemical fertilisers, killing more of those slithery, wriggley animals

You could probably achieve results on a small scale but that would require everybody digging up their back garden and growing their own fruit and veg.

True that vegan farming kills animals too, but such techniques still kill far fewer animals than animal farming, that's been debunked a fair few times.

DEBUNKED: Do vegans kill more animals through crop deaths? — Surge | Creative Non-Profit for Animal Rights (surgeactivism.org)

I do agree that some of the animals killed are particularly useful and bees are probably the main case in point, but then again, much of the world's production of corn and soy is as animal feed too.

[horsefly 5,281]

13 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The problem I have with vegans using the argument about the killing of animals as a reason for veganism, ignores the millions of animals that are killed on a daily basis during the process of growing and harvesting vegan food. Obviously, animals are not directly killed, but the farming techniques to grow cost food requires tons of pesticides spread on fields to kill pests that would otherwise devastate crops. Then crops have to be treated with weed-killers which also kills animals living in the soils, leaching into rivers and waterways and so poisoning aquatic creatures. And then the harvesting process tends to shred a million more animals or kill off millions that pass through chlorine baths and the such-like. 

The animals that vegan farming kills are not the lovable sheep and big-eyed cattle but lots wriggly, ugly-looking stuff, but these are the animals that are way more important for the natural ecosystem than a pig. If you kill all the worms in a field then material in the soil doesn't get processed and the soil loses its nutrition and nothing can grow unless you replenish the ground with artificial fertilisers. If you kill all the bees then nothing pollinates and you have no fruit, for example. So vegan farming is way more harmful to the natural ecosystem than animal farming.

Now the vegan will argue that the answer is organic farming. But the problem here is that organic farming is all low-scale and high cost farming. You cannot feed a nation using just organic practices as the end product is three times the price of non-organic stuff. Maybe fine if you are a middle-class dual-income family, not fine if you are  working-class low income person. Moreover, without animal husbandry there is no organic fertiliser for organic vegan farming, so you would be reliant on chemical fertilisers, killing more of those slithery, wriggley animals

You could probably achieve results on a small scale but that would require everybody digging up their back garden and growing their own fruit and veg.

You clearly have no knowledge of organic farming at all. Also it seems you have you never heard of a compost heap.

[Herman 11,112]

31 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You clearly have no knowledge of organic farming at all. Also it seems you have you never heard of a compost heap.

He obviously does. Where do you think he dug that up from?! 😂

I think there is one sentence in all of that that has a modicum of truth to it. 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

On 09/04/2024 at 00:03, Rock The Boat said:

The problem I have with vegans using the argument about the killing of animals as a reason for veganism, ignores the millions of animals that are killed on a daily basis during the process of growing and harvesting vegan food. Obviously, animals are not directly killed, but the farming techniques to grow cost food requires tons of pesticides spread on fields to kill pests that would otherwise devastate crops. Then crops have to be treated with weed-killers which also kills animals living in the soils, leaching into rivers and waterways and so poisoning aquatic creatures. And then the harvesting process tends to shred a million more animals or kill off millions that pass through chlorine baths and the such-like. 

The animals that vegan farming kills are not the lovable sheep and big-eyed cattle but lots wriggly, ugly-looking stuff, but these are the animals that are way more important for the natural ecosystem than a pig. If you kill all the worms in a field then material in the soil doesn't get processed and the soil loses its nutrition and nothing can grow unless you replenish the ground with artificial fertilisers. If you kill all the bees then nothing pollinates and you have no fruit, for example. So vegan farming is way more harmful to the natural ecosystem than animal farming.

Now the vegan will argue that the answer is organic farming. But the problem here is that organic farming is all low-scale and high cost farming. You cannot feed a nation using just organic practices as the end product is three times the price of non-organic stuff. Maybe fine if you are a middle-class dual-income family, not fine if you are  working-class low income person. Moreover, without animal husbandry there is no organic fertiliser for organic vegan farming, so you would be reliant on chemical fertilisers, killing more of those slithery, wriggley animals

You could probably achieve results on a small scale but that would require everybody digging up their back garden and growing their own fruit and veg.

Also, think of the cows and all the milk they produce. If they're not milked then they potentially die. Then all the species that exist to eat that would just die out otherwise.

Meat is murder; veganism is genocide.

[FenwayFrank 2,657]

[horsefly 5,281]

Liz Truss posted this today, perhaps to remind her constituents what she looks like. Has she actually spent more than a week in her constituency in 2024, I doubt it. Far more interested in touring the world to spout her batsh*it cray conspiracy theories, surely this sort of abandonment of her duties as an MP requires her to be censured at the very least. I hope the voters in SW Norfolk take note of the utter contempt Truss has for them.

 https://x.com/trussliz/status/1784169842439770406

[KiwiScot 1,679]

Well it's not Norfolk, but Central Suffolk and North Ipswich has gone Labour.  Safe tory seat mind, but should make the election there interesting(oh wait he won't be standing).

Edited April 27 by KiwiScot

[horsefly 5,281]

TBF Brandon does have 7 jobs to juggle

 https://x.com/dave43law/status/1786047603701866969

[Yellow Fever 4,388]

45 minutes ago, horsefly said:

TBF Brandon does have 7 jobs to juggle

 https://x.com/dave43law/status/1786047603701866969

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24295172.brandon-lewis-mocked-twitter-election-post-mix-up/

"A Norfolk MP has been mocked after urging his constituents to vote in their local council elections... even though there is no such poll taking place.

Brandon Lewis called on people in Great Yarmouth to "vote Conservative today" to "keep council tax low and maintain great local services" in a post on X, the website formerly known as Twitter.

However, there are no council elections taking place this week for Great Yarmouth Borough Council."

 

Some mothers do 'av 'em.

Seems like Brandon Lewis is so removed from Yarmouth and what should of been the 'day' job he didn't realize there are no polls there today. It's really quite shocking.

 

Edited May 2 by Yellow Fever

[Herman 11,112]

6 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24295172.brandon-lewis-mocked-twitter-election-post-mix-up/

"A Norfolk MP has been mocked after urging his constituents to vote in their local council elections... even though there is no such poll taking place.

Brandon Lewis called on people in Great Yarmouth to "vote Conservative today" to "keep council tax low and maintain great local services" in a post on X, the website formerly known as Twitter.

However, there are no council elections taking place this week for Great Yarmouth Borough Council."

 

Some mothers do 'av 'em.

Seems like Brandon Lewis is so removed from Yarmouth and what should of been the 'day' job he didn't realize there are no polls there today. It's really quite shocking.

 

Is that an oxymoron? Can you keep council tax low and great local services? Has Great Yarmouth council found the perfect way to run a town and area?

[Barbe bleu 1,031]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Is that an oxymoron? Can you keep council tax low and great local services? 

Sure you can.   You just need a highly motivated, skilled and confident workforce that works to a clear direction.

That's got very little to do with elected councillors though.

[dylanisabaddog 5,990]

Congratulations to the Green Party!  Noticeable that the Tories are distancing themselves from the national party😂

 

Edited May 3 by dylanisabaddog

[TheGunnShow 7,254]

4 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Congratulations to the Green Party!  Noticeable that the Tories are distancing themselves from the national party😂

 

A Green won in Halliwell (usually a Labour stronghold) up here and became the first Green councillor in Bolton as a result. Think Palestine played a part as the eastern side of Halliwell in particular has always had a pronounced south Asian immigrant population for as long as I've lived. Not to mention that an independent won in Rumworth, another area that's always had a fair Indian/Pakistani/Afghan population too.

Key thing from Bolton here is that if there are hyper-local party candidates, they've got a chance as both the Horwich/Blackrod and the Farnworth/Kearsley set showed - there's not exactly enthusiasm for the major parties, and Reform did jack-all as well.

[dylanisabaddog 5,990]

Labour win in Norfolk 

[Badger 2,743]

On 04/04/2024 at 19:55, littleyellowbirdie said:

What's wrong with someone enjoying culling an animal? It makes no difference to the animal at all whether its  killer is having fun or wringing their hands over it in a crisis is conscience.

This is exactly what I'm saying about tolerance. You might not like it, but if it doesn't affect you, why do you feel the need to interfere? Stopping half a dozen foxes being chased and killed every weekend won't stop millions of animals being killed gruesomely by other animals on a daily basis. It's an absurd, pointless fight for the sake of a pretty weak moral case clearly more motivated by a desire to control the actions of others perceived as 'sinful' than any real interest in animal welfare.

 

So using the same logic, you would not be opposed to someone torturing and killing a stray dog or cat etc? It wouldn't affect me, so presumably you would think this ok?

[Badger 2,743]

On 02/05/2024 at 19:14, Barbe bleu said:

Sure you can.   You just need a highly motivated, skilled and confident workforce that works to a clear direction.

That's got very little to do with elected councillors though.

So how do you get a "highly motivated, skilled and confident workforce" whilst you pay public servants so little and their are too few of them to do the job properly?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 09/04/2024 at 12:51, horsefly said:

You clearly have no knowledge of organic farming at all. Also it seems you have you never heard of a compost heap.

I'd love you to tell a Norfolk Farmer that the solution to industrial scale organic farming is a compost heap. Especially one without animal waste.

[TheGunnShow 7,254]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

So how do you get a "highly motivated, skilled and confident workforce" whilst you pay public servants so little and their are too few of them to do the job properly?

See teaching staff and junior doctors for details.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 03/05/2024 at 14:27, dylanisabaddog said:

Congratulations to the Green Party!  Noticeable that the Tories are distancing themselves from the national party😂

 

a protest vote against the conservatives but they still couldn't bring themselves to vote labour

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 04/05/2024 at 04:57, dylanisabaddog said:

Labour win in Norfolk 

another conservative protest vote. this time for a non-job so it's safe to vote labour

[Badger 2,743]

13 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

See teaching staff and junior doctors for details.

I'm hoping to go on the Australian cricket tour late 2025* which is perhaps, my best chance of seeing a UK-trained junior doctor!

*As a spectator rather than player 😀

[Badger 2,743]

13 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

another conservative protest vote. this time for a non-job so it's safe to vote labour

Another great Cameron policy - get rid of tens of thousands of police officers and replace them with non-jobs designed to reward Tory party hacks.

[Barbe bleu 1,031]

14 hours ago, Badger said:

So how do you get a "highly motivated, skilled and confident workforce" whilst you pay public servants so little and their are too few of them to do the job properly?

This was said in the context of council jobs (how do you keep council tax low and have good services) and the contact of election jobs, it wasn't a wider point. However, to take the point forward:

Better pay for all employees would help motivate and more employees would allow for more delivery and more time for training etc, but both have diminishing returns and both are just throwing money at a problem. 

What would help more than a flat rate pay rise (which as I have said would help) is strategic investment in niche areas that unblock work done by others/retain knowledge etc. 

You can have great public services at a reasonable price, you just have to spend the money wisely.   It was said with tongue in cheek but I think there is a lot of truth in the view that local councillors are really not that important in the provision of local services so local elections rarely change things locally. 

 

 

[Badger 2,743]

16 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I'd love you to tell a Norfolk Farmer that the solution to industrial scale organic farming is a compost heap. Especially one without animal waste.

Not sure that Norfolk farmers would understand in any case - they seemed to think that Brexit would help them! They're not so keen now! (And they are lucky we haven't done a trade deal with the US yet either.)