Ashtons part in West Ham win

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Having just watched Dean Ashtons performance in the West Ham win over Man City one has to ask just how naff our management and coaching staff are.

[In Dubious Battle 0]

I watched the match last wek against Bolton and he barely got a touch, then last night he was brilliant. I think it''s more an indication of how inconsistent Dean Ashton is.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="ridgeman"]Having just watched Dean Ashtons performance in the West Ham win over Man City one has to ask just how naff our management and coaching staff are.[/quote]

He was quality, so many great touches winning headers,, and he scored a good goal and a tap-in.....  As was shown on another thread, our managers percentage of points gained is worse than all his peers...

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="waynepayne"]

I watched the match last wek against Bolton and he barely got a touch, then last night he was brilliant. I think it''s more an indication of how inconsistent Dean Ashton is.

[/quote]

5 goals in 6 games... sounds pretty consistent to me. And he hasnt even adapted tyo West Ham''s style yet.

[macdougalls perm 0]

As mentioned, he was poor against Bolton last week and great last night. Seems to point to his inconsistency as much as anything, I think. Anyway, who cares lets get behind the team we have rather than worrying about other teams and our ex players.

[Fat Barman 0]

Grow up!Ashton just wasn''t interested in the Championship.He played well for Worthington in the Prem - did we change everything in the summer? Or is Ashton just a waster who only turns it on when it suits him (like in December to remind the Prem teams what he can do)?CJRanthorn - our manager''s success rate in play-off finals and Championship titles is better than most of his peers - I know which has impressed me more!BTW - all those who wanted Burley as manager - how many points have Sarfampton won under his stewardship?

[MadDan 0]

Well said FB

I wonder if citizen journalist foghorn would care to tell us who he really is as I don''t remember anyone of this name posting 2000 messages

[AP16 0]

[quote user="Fat Barman"]Grow up!
Ashton just wasn''t interested in the Championship.
He played well for Worthington in the Prem - "did we change everything in the summer?"* Or is Ashton just a waster who only turns it on when it suits him (like in December to remind the Prem teams what he can do)?

CJRanthorn - our manager''s success rate in play-off finals and Championship titles is better than most of his peers - I know which has impressed me more!
BTW - all those who wanted Burley as manager - how many points have Sarfampton won under his stewardship?
[/quote]

 

*Pretty much did we not? Like - the whole bloody midfield.... Is it not why earnshaw, another top goalscorer only gets half a chance a game- cos we keep smacking the ball up to him rather than using the creative dynamo''s worthy has bought in (chortle chortle) to play football and actually, dare i risk saying it, create some chances!?

[Unlucky Fried Kitten 0]

I think you''ll find Citizen Journo Foghorn is aka Paul Rankin.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Fat Barman"]Grow up!
Ashton just wasn''t interested in the Championship.
He played well for Worthington in the Prem - did we change everything in the summer? Or is Ashton just a waster who only turns it on when it suits him (like in December to remind the Prem teams what he can do)?

CJRanthorn - our manager''s success rate in play-off finals and Championship titles is better than most of his peers - I know which has impressed me more!
BTW - all those who wanted Burley as manager - how many points have Sarfampton won under his stewardship?
[/quote]

Ashton was probably disheartened by the appalling football and poor quality players that arrived at the club, I have no doubts he would have stayed if we had been in the top 6 come christmas.  Unfortunatly he is not stupid and he could tell promotion was not going to happen.  Hence he jumped ship and who can blame him, with crappers like jarrett and hughes coming into the club, nobody can keep hold of a 7 million pound striker when you are sitting in the bottom half of the championship let alone when you are signing POOR footballers to play around him.....

Our managers success rate in play-off finals is 0% btw......  His peers well Paul Jewell, Gary Megson, Mickey Adams, George Burley, Alan Pardew, Steve Coppell, Ian Dowie, Mick Mccarthy, Joe Royle all have far better managerial records than him and have all attained promotion from this division at least once and all have made the play offs at least once.

As for Burley, well he has had to start from scratch.... more or less the whole southampton squad had to be dumped.

Southampton Players out this season
Player	To	Fee	Date
Kevin Phillips	Aston Villa	£ 1000000	29-06-2005
Anders Svensson	Elfsborg	Free	29-06-2005
Alledine Yahia	St Etienne	Signed	29-06-2005
Jason Dodd	Brighton	Free	29-06-2005
Jo Tessem	Lyn Oslo	Signed	29-06-2005
Peter Crouch	Liverpool	£ 7000000	20-07-2005
Paul Telfer	Celtic	£ 200000	22-07-2005
Mikael Nilsson	Panathinaikos		01-08-2005
Fabrice Fernandes	Bolton	Free	31-08-2005
Olivier Bernard	Rangers	Signed	31-08-2005
Alan Blayney	Doncaster	£ 50000	05-01-2006
Antti Niemi	Fulham	Signed	10-01-2006
Neil McCann	Hearts	Free	17-01-2006
Dennis Wise	Coventry	Free	19-01-2006
Theo Walcott	Arsenal	£ 5000000	20-01-2006
Brett Ormerod	Preston	Free	27-01-2006
Tomasz Hajto	Derby	Free	27-01-2006
Nigel Quashie	West Brom	£ 1200000	31-01-2006
Andrew McNeil	Hibernian	Signed	31-01-2006
Matthew Mills	Man City	Signed	31-01-2006
Rory Delap	Sunderland	Free	31-01-2006
Total: £ 14450000

[MadDan 0]

Has not Joe Royle had to do much the same yet the bin scum finished 7th in their first year down.

How desperate is our Paul, Citizen, YGB etc etc to attack our club ?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="MadDan"]Has not Joe Royle had to do much the same yet the bin scum finished 7th in their first year down. How desperate is our Paul, Citizen, YGB etc etc to attack our club ?[/quote]

I will attack an inept hoofball manager maybe.  And I will certainly attack your club MadDan the Binner.....

[Yellow Rider 0]

Sorry Fat Barman but I don''t understand the point about ....''our manager''s success rate in play off finals'' - which as CJF says is a big round zero%. What point are you trying to make?  

On the Ashton business, our views are getting polarised (like the Worthy out issue). I agree that what appears to have emerged is his motivation for money and playing in The Premier. Having said that there is absolutely no doubt that he cut a lonely forlorn figure in The Championship as the quality of play and service was sadly lacking. You say he .........''just wasn''t interested in the Championship''. This is at odds with his spell at Crewe (where he even spent one season in Div 1!!), why did he not seek transfer requests etc. in his time there??

Had we played the quality of football that we could (and should) have done before christmas and were challenging much more strongly for a top two place, I think he MAY have stayed until end of season at least. 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="MadDan"]Has not Joe Royle had to do much the same yet the bin scum finished 7th in their first year down. How desperate is our Paul, Citizen, YGB etc etc to attack our club ?[/quote]

you are right he finished 7th, not bad considering they were 21st when he took over....

[Beno27 0]

"I watched the match last wek against Bolton and he barely got a touch, then last night he was brilliant. I think it''s more an indication of how inconsistent Dean Ashton is."

5 in 6 is not inconsistency! 13 in 19 premiership games is not inconsistency! Mckenzie is inconsistant and nobody has a go at him, this is fair enough but why do you need to throw unfounded insults at Deano? People have been moaning about him saying its great to be playing for great fans, with all of the insults thrown at him we were appalling fans and yet you expect him to be nice about us?

[Canaries for Ever 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

On the Ashton business, our views are getting polarised (like the Worthy out issue). I agree that what appears to have emerged is his motivation for money and playing in The Premier. Having said that there is absolutely no doubt that he cut a lonely forlorn figure in The Championship as the quality of play and service was sadly lacking. You say he .........''just wasn''t interested in the Championship''. This is at odds with his spell at Crewe (where he even spent one season in Div 1!!), why did he not seek transfer requests etc. in his time there??

Had we played the quality of football that we could (and should) have done before christmas and were challenging much more strongly for a top two place, I think he MAY have stayed until end of season at least. 

[/quote]

He didn''t have any other premier clubs prepared to take the risk when he was at Crewe - just Norwich (which is why he came).

His body language certainly seemed to indicate that he was only be interested in the Premiership and he certainly switched off well before Xmas (until he knew he was being watched). Despite the goals, it was clear he was not putting in the effort in several home games - it wasn''t just lack of service - it works both ways. I don''t know, but I wouldn''t be at all surprised, if other players were aware of his attitude within a couple of games of the start of the season. It was not ideal, having just gone through the Francis saga.

This isn''t ''sour grapes'' because he''s gone because I did like the player in the Premiership (when his head was in the right place) but I would always prefer a player with the attitude of Huckerby, McKenzie, Fleming or Hughes (not exhaustive list) who put in the effort whichever division they are playing in. There were matches when Ashton just didn''t seem to be a team player.

 

[Flick Fleck 0]

Can I just point out the obvious?  If Deano doing well at West Ham means that Pardew is a better manager than Worthy, then Worthy is clearly a better manager than Bryan Robson, since Earnie is doing far better at Norwich than he did for West Brom all season...

 

The problem with polarised arguments on these Boards is that they are only being made by people who have no interest in seeing the issue from a broader perspective.  I think it''s great that Deano is doing well at his new club, just like I thought it was great when Sutton, Ruel, Bellamy, etc did well when they moved on...

 

[MadDan 0]

You are not very bright are you Paul ?

You defended Burley''s lack of success by claiming that he had lost so many of his playing staff. I point out that Royle lost so many of his playing staff yet finished 7th thereby disproving your claim.

Which part of that can you not understand ? For someone who claims to have been university educated you do appear to have the inteligence of somebody from suffolk. Why is that ?

As to my education - Fakenham Grammar School many moons ago. Gants coaches up to night games or hitching otherwise. Across the pitch at Watford away in ''72, froze my arse off back from the (old) Valley in April that year as the front windows had all been smashed on the coaches travelled up overnight on Mascot coaches to Blackpool the sept before.

''Bernie misbehaving in the Barclay in the mid 70''s, the train incident at Stoke away after the game and marvelling at the enormous milk bottle away at Oxford in the same named cup ''84.

I''m City through and through.

Just wonder why some posting on here seem to spend all their time attacking City and get very aggrieved when you challenge them.

Is that why they feel the need to hide behind multiply names ?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="MadDan"]You are not very bright are you Paul ? You defended Burley''s lack of success by claiming that he had lost so many of his playing staff. I point out that Royle lost so many of his playing staff yet finished 7th thereby disproving your claim. Which part of that can you not understand ? For someone who claims to have been university educated you do appear to have the inteligence of somebody from suffolk. Why is that ? As to my education - Fakenham Grammar School many moons ago. Gants coaches up to night games or hitching otherwise. Across the pitch at Watford away in ''72, froze my arse off back from the (old) Valley in April that year as the front windows had all been smashed on the coaches travelled up overnight on Mascot coaches to Blackpool the sept before. ''Bernie misbehaving in the Barclay in the mid 70''s, the train incident at Stoke away after the game and marvelling at the enormous milk bottle away at Oxford in the same named cup ''84. I''m City through and through. Just wonder why some posting on here seem to spend all their time attacking City and get very aggrieved when you challenge them. Is that why they feel the need to hide behind multiply names ?[/quote]

"You defended Burley''s lack of success by claiming that he had lost so many of his playing staff. " - yep the whole first XI have changed at southampton from last season a whole new squad, I am sure it will come good....

"I point out that Royle lost so many of his playing staff yet finished 7th thereby disproving your claim" - ipswich kept most of there team together on relegation only Bramble and Stewart of the players of note were sold- ambrose, hreidarson, holland, Finidi, Clapham etc etc etc whom only left when the administrators came a knocking at the door march  and then in the summer.

If you are going to make points MadDan Binman At least make them valid ones.....

 

[Ian 1,212]

[quote user="Flick Fleck"]

Can I just point out the obvious?  If Deano doing well at West Ham means that Pardew is a better manager than Worthy, then Worthy is clearly a better manager than Bryan Robson, since Earnie is doing far better at Norwich than he did for West Brom all season...

The problem with polarised arguments on these Boards is that they are only being made by people who have no interest in seeing the issue from a broader perspective.  I think it''s great that Deano is doing well at his new club, just like I thought it was great when Sutton, Ruel, Bellamy, etc did well when they moved on...

[/quote]I think you''ve got it spot on there Fick Fleck. To suggest that the only reason Deano is doing well for West Ham (when he didn''t have the best of seasons for us) is that Pardew''s a better manager/West Ham''s coaching staff are better is naive at best, ignorant at worst. Many top players have gone to top clubs and performed poorly - that does not mean the clubs are rubbish, or even that one is better than the other.It seems that a lot of people are only willing to concede/agree with the obvious when it suits their agenda.

[Fat Barman 0]

YR & CJF - I admit it was not well written, but I was referring to Worthington taking us to a play-off final, then winning the 1st Division 2 years later. I suppose it depends upon whom you regard as his peers. I was thinking of the likes of Burley (whom everyone seemed so keen to have here a few months back), Warnock, Royle, aswell as most of CJF''s list "Our managers success rate in play-off finals is 0% btw......  His peers

well Paul Jewell, Gary Megson, Mickey Adams, George Burley, Alan

Pardew, Steve Coppell, Ian Dowie, Mick Mccarthy, Joe Royle all have far

better managerial records than him and have all attained promotion from

this division at least once and all have made the play offs at least

once."Paul Jewell - did well with his first club, but Wigan are the Chelsea of the lower leagues, so a poor comparison.Megson - up twice, down once and sacked when it looked like a second relegation, so much the same as Worthy.Mickey Adams - ?!?! How many Play-off finals, or promotions?Burley - OK, lots of play-off finals, one promotion.Pardew - two finals, one of which they won (is that better than being Champions?)Coppell - one title (soon, anyway!)Dowie - One final (successful, though)McCarthy - one title, two Prem displays worse than ours!Royle - no finals, no promotions - we could finish above his team for the third successive season this year.My point was valid.CJF - "Ashton was probably disheartened by the appalling football and poor

quality players that arrived at the club, I have no doubts he would

have stayed if we had been in the top 6 come christmas.  Unfortunatly

he is not stupid and he could tell promotion was not going to happen. 

Hence he jumped ship and who can blame him, with crappers like jarrett

and hughes coming into the club, nobody can keep hold of a 7 million

pound striker when you are sitting in the bottom half of the

championship let alone when you are signing POOR footballers to play

around him....."Ashton got to the Prem through us - the only reason he signed. If he hadn''t had an improved contract in August he''d have left then. Nothing to do with players signed, or poor tactics, it was cash, pure and simple. I don''t blame him, I just don''t like people using him as a stick to beat the manager with.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Flick Fleck"]

Can I just point out the obvious?  If Deano doing well at West Ham means that Pardew is a better manager than Worthy, then Worthy is clearly a better manager than Bryan Robson, since Earnie is doing far better at Norwich than he did for West Brom all season...

[/quote]

I think people see Pardew''s West Ham playing to Ashton''s strengths, just like Gradi''s Crewe did and we didn''t.  He is a more talented manager full stop - there can be no arguments about that one. 

[Meeky 0]

[quote user="MadDan"]You are not very bright are you Paul ? You defended Burley''s lack of success by claiming that he had lost so many of his playing staff. I point out that Royle lost so many of his playing staff yet finished 7th thereby disproving your claim. Which part of that can you not understand ? For someone who claims to have been university educated you do appear to have the inteligence of somebody from suffolk. Why is that ? As to my education - Fakenham Grammar School many moons ago. Gants coaches up to night games or hitching otherwise. Across the pitch at Watford away in ''72, froze my arse off back from the (old) Valley in April that year as the front windows had all been smashed on the coaches travelled up overnight on Mascot coaches to Blackpool the sept before. ''Bernie misbehaving in the Barclay in the mid 70''s, the train incident at Stoke away after the game and marvelling at the enormous milk bottle away at Oxford in the same named cup ''84. I''m City through and through. Just wonder why some posting on here seem to spend all their time attacking City and get very aggrieved when you challenge them. Is that why they feel the need to hide behind multiply names ?[/quote]

 

MadDan

I think we went to Fakenham Grammar School at the same time. I left in 1976 (end of my 5th year). I too, used to get Gants coaches to games or hitch and was in the Barclay at that time.

Small world eh?

[YankeeCanary 0]

All this goes to show Meeky is that two peas from the same pod don''t always come out the same. I''ll thank the Lord for small mercies. 

[lucky green trainers 0]

deano looks very confident and back to his best - as he did when he came to us initially.  i bet he''s waking up knowing he made the right decision to move this morning. 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Fat Barman"]
Paul Jewell - did well with his first club, but Wigan are the Chelsea of the lower leagues, so a poor comparison.
[/quote]

He survived with Bradford and has got wigan promoted twice in 3 years and now they are staying up.  Its one thing having money its another spending it on good players - just ask worthy...

[quote user="Fat Barman"]
Megson - up twice, down once and sacked when it looked like a second relegation, so much the same as Worthy
[/quote]

no better than worthy he got them promoted after relegation...

[quote user="Fat Barman"]
Mickey Adams - ?!?! How many Play-off finals, or promotions?

[/quote]

Leicester promoted as runners up....

[quote user="Fat Barman"]

Burley - OK, lots of play-off finals, one promotion.
Pardew - two finals, one of which they won (is that better than being Champions?)
Coppell - one title (soon, anyway!)

[/quote]

And they all kept teams up in the premiership

Dowie - One final (successful, though) and a play off place this year.

McCarthy - one title, two Prem displays worse than ours - granted but he spent less than worthy
Royle - oldham and staying up, numerous play-off finishes

and they have all attained more points than worthy per game, and many have had cup runs of more than 2 games.....

CJF -
Ashton got to the Prem through us - the only reason he signed. If he hadn''t had an improved contract in August he''d have left then. Nothing to do with players signed, or poor tactics, it was cash, pure and simple. I don''t blame him, I just don''t like people using him as a stick to beat the manager with.

CRAP - if we were in the top 6 challenging I doubt he would have left - as it was we were bottom half filled with poor players signed like thorne jarrett hughes and etuhu and in many ganmes we barely created a chance - as erny is finding out now...

[MadDan 0]

Oh dear, rather blown my cover there Meeky. I''m supposed to be a binner. Something put out by the scum fans on here who masquarade as Canaries.

You would be Peter Meek if I remember well. (Thursford way I think) Started just after ''Niloc'' took over I should imagine. Remember going up on Bammants minibuses some night games. Once hitched up to one game in my school uniform and got hauled over by Cardew a couple of days later for bringing disgrace on the school. No grief about a 13 year old walking back from Bintree after midnight though

Happy(ish) days.

I''ll pm you the binners on here. I''ve been pm''ed by a number of City fans who also know who they are. Not too difficult as all their posts are anti the club in some way. Mostly pompous guff in long winded rambles about how awful the board is, how terrible Worthington is and how they all lack ambition.

Not sure about the multiple fantasist Paul who appears here as lord knows who on a daily basis. Given how many of the anti club rabble joined forces with the binners on here over the past couple of months I shouldn''t be surprised if his allegiance was questionable as well.

ps ambrose left in February not March, Clapham in January before the administrators with Bent, Le Pen, Sereni as welll leaving. The latter three costing nearly £10m !

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

"Royle - no finals, no promotions - we could finish above his team for the third successive season this year."

actually he got Oldham AND Man City more recently promoted, won a cup and 2 play-off appearances...  his ipswich form in spite of numerous sellings of many of their best players - 56 goals worth of striker and midfielder last season...

[We need a Manager 0]

MadDan you sound like a 10 year old , get in the real world Worthington is a clown and the only people who want him at Norwich are Ipswich fans .

[YankeeCanary 0]

NTT, I have to agree with you that I find it difficult to believe someone ( MadDan ) who appears to be heading toward his mid 40''s in age is capable of even posting in the manner that he does. I honestly would have expected better of my children when they were ten years old. My comment has nothing to do with what his point of view is vs mine or anyone else''s for that matter. Strictly a reference to the apparent lack of maturity for someone that age leaves me dismayed.