Webber Wages

[Indy 3,323]

9 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Ok yes we won 2 championship titles, as I actually mentioned before, the second one wouldn’t have been necessary if we had actually made a fight of staying up would it? 
 

My POV is that I actually think the club has been poorly run over the last 20 years when we’ve had numerous promotions and pathetic relegations. It would be nice to see the football club actually make a go of staying up, and no I don’t mean get into massive debt doing so either. 
 

We are told we are still in debt yet how many fees of over 10 million have we received for players in the last few years yet our record signing is still under 10 million I believe. 
 

I just don’t get how people laud the current ownership/ majority shareholders whatever you want to call them when they have clearly made mistakes that have taken us to the brink of receivership, something which got our previous owner hounded out. He sold the Crown Jewels too, but again was given lots of vitriol for it and as I say was hounded out, yet these custodians have done exactly the same in my opinion. 
 

I hope that MA does takeover because then the club may be run like it’s the 21st century not the 90s, again that’s my opinion before you say it’s not run that way. I would also hope it happens sooner than 3 years time tbh, because as I stated earlier anything could happen in that period.

I hope that’s cleared up my POV, or opinion whichever you want to call it. 
 

 

For starters I’m one of the most critical posters of the current owners if you really care to read back over the years, their constant dismissal of any potential new owners have been frustrating and those who say there weren’t any buyers I question that as other clubs have changed hands.

Secondly we have had a three year stint in the top flight in the last 20 years so that point is mute! Premier is a tough stay ask Fulham, Burnley, Watford, WBA etc….there’s loads of clubs whose fans can ask the same! 
 

Like it or not the current set up have control on how things go, the additional shares have been made available without these it would be near impossible for anyone to gain that 30% trigger needed, so as much as criticism can be aimed at the current owners the fact is they have made the club available, for a fee that means they don’t take a huge profit out of the club as they’ve stated in the past! 
 

As frustrating as it is we’ve had seven seasons at the top flight in the 26 years so really not that bad when you look at clubs bigger than ours still struggling to get up!

As for selling our Crown Jewels, I’ve been watching since 1977 and we’ve always sold tue Crown Jewels from Bond days to Farke we have sold to survive no different in this current set up to the old days.

I fully get the frustration of getting relegated and you can argue that which I fully back the last one getting rid of Farke for Smith was utterly stupid and one I was ultra critical at the time correctly so! Webber should have been sacked on our relegation along with Smith!

[TheBaldOne66 703]

56 minutes ago, Indy said:

For starters I’m one of the most critical posters of the current owners if you really care to read back over the years, their constant dismissal of any potential new owners have been frustrating and those who say there weren’t any buyers I question that as other clubs have changed hands.

Secondly we have had a three year stint in the top flight in the last 20 years so that point is mute! Premier is a tough stay ask Fulham, Burnley, Watford, WBA etc….there’s loads of clubs whose fans can ask the same! 
 

Like it or not the current set up have control on how things go, the additional shares have been made available without these it would be near impossible for anyone to gain that 30% trigger needed, so as much as criticism can be aimed at the current owners the fact is they have made the club available, for a fee that means they don’t take a huge profit out of the club as they’ve stated in the past! 
 

As frustrating as it is we’ve had seven seasons at the top flight in the 26 years so really not that bad when you look at clubs bigger than ours still struggling to get up!

As for selling our Crown Jewels, I’ve been watching since 1977 and we’ve always sold tue Crown Jewels from Bond days to Farke we have sold to survive no different in this current set up to the old days.

I fully get the frustration of getting relegated and you can argue that which I fully back the last one getting rid of Farke for Smith was utterly stupid and one I was ultra critical at the time correctly so! Webber should have been sacked on our relegation along with Smith!

Whether you like what I said or not it matters not to me as I stated my opinion, which I’m fully entitled to I believe. You can disagree with it as much as you wish but it’s my opinion as I said and that’s what you asked for earlier. It won’t change whatever you feel, sorry. 

[canarydan23 4,062]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Well, i asked how many championship titles and Tlthe lambert years gave us one third tier title as far as I can remember.

So I agree that considering the fact you don't seem to know what a title is, it would be a waste of time going further back in history.

I did give you 20 years of titles as an opportunity to slam Webber with but you've done an even worse job than I figured you would.

I can play this game as well, by the way.

Given a Championship title involves finishing 21st in the pyramid, how many times in the last 20 years have we finished higher than Webber's peak of 20th? That's a better barometer, surely?

Presumably you agree that's a better achievement, and therefore a better regime, than the Webber dynasty?

Edited September 10, 2023 by canarydan23

[Indy 3,323]

19 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Whether you like what I said or not it matters not to me as I stated my opinion, which I’m fully entitled to I believe. You can disagree with it as much as you wish but it’s my opinion as I said and that’s what you asked for earlier. It won’t change whatever you feel, sorry. 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no issue with that but at least have some substance behind you statement or it just sounds like moaning! I mean when you say 

“My POV is that I actually think the club has been poorly run over the last 20 years when we’ve had numerous promotions and pathetic relegations. It would be nice to see the football club actually make a go of staying up, and no I don’t mean get into massive debt doing so either.” 

Then it’s not correct as we spent three seasons in to top flight under Lambert & Hughton! Does that not count at giving it a good go?

Edited September 10, 2023 by Indy

[essex canary 508]

We have clearly done better than the likes of Derby and Charlton over 20 years.

There has been a very clear problem when in the Premier League. Football League World has listed the following as being our top paid players in Premier League seasons- Mbokani £40k per week, Drmic £50k, Williams £65k.

If Zoe's contact is similar to everyone else's it is unclear how much is paid for being in the PL rather than top 17. Turn up, finish bottom.  get paid. Where is the incentive? No wonder our salary bill is so much higher in that position than other Clubs. Watford's for example doesn't gear up anything like as much. That is why our finances are where they are.

Edited September 10, 2023 by essex canary

[hogesar 9,773]

33 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I can play this game as well, by the way.

Given a Championship title involves finishing 21st in the pyramid, how many times in the last 20 years have we finished higher than Webber's peak of 20th? That's a better barometer, surely?

Presumably you agree that's a better achievement, and therefore a better regime, than the Webber dynasty?

Depends if you find a title winning season more enjoyable than finishing 14th in the prem or whatever. But I certainly agree you're welcome to prefer the Mcnally years over the Webber years - each to their own. 

But then the Webber dynasty would need off field improvements factored in, etc etc. 🙃

[Sufyellow 225]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Well, i asked how many championship titles and Tlthe lambert years gave us one third tier title as far as I can remember.

So I agree that considering the fact you don't seem to know what a title is, it would be a waste of time going further back in history.

I did give you 20 years of titles as an opportunity to slam Webber with but you've done an even worse job than I figured you would.

Yet the lambert years got us competing in the prem. 

[hogesar 9,773]

7 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

Yet the lambert years got us competing in the prem. 

Yes they did, temporarily.

[TIL 1010 4,813]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Well, i asked how many championship titles and Tlthe lambert years gave us one third tier title as far as I can remember.

So I agree that considering the fact you don't seem to know what a title is, it would be a waste of time going further back in history.

I did give you 20 years of titles as an opportunity to slam Webber with but you've done an even worse job than I figured you would.

Like me it appears you have forgotten the Worthington Championship winning 2003/2004 season which falls within your 20 years smartar$e. Maybe being runner up in the league also achieves somewhat of a lesser result than promotion but i am so pleased you have been provided with an opportunity to display yet again your obnoxious manner when responding to posters.

[essex canary 508]

5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

 but i am so pleased you have been provided with an opportunity to display yet again your obnoxious manner when responding to posters.

You are not saying he is the only one are you?

I remember you making a similar allegation against @wcorkcanary  You seem to be best pals lately.

[hogesar 9,773]

33 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Like me it appears you have forgotten the Worthington Championship winning 2003/2004 season which falls within your 20 years smartar$e. Maybe being runner up in the league also achieves somewhat of a lesser result than promotion but i am so pleased you have been provided with an opportunity to display yet again your obnoxious manner when responding to posters.

I didnt forget it at all. I gave you the opportunity to bring it up, twice and now you have.

You responded to me in your usual abrasive way and you then cry wolf when someone responds in the same way 🙃😅😅

I'm glad we've developed an understanding on what a title is. Would you like a third try now? 

[TIL 1010 4,813]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I didnt forget it at all. I gave you the opportunity to bring it up, twice and now you have.

You responded to me in your usual abrasive way and you then cry wolf when someone responds in the same way 🙃😅😅

I'm glad we've developed an understanding on what a title is. Would you like a third try now? 

Not crying wolf at all because i expect nothing less of you and your usual tone of talking down at people who don't subscribe to your views.

[TIL 1010 4,813]

30 minutes ago, essex canary said:

 

I remember you making a similar allegation against @wcorkcanary  You seem to be best pals lately.

Only where you are concerned.

[hogesar 9,773]

2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Not crying wolf at all because i expect nothing less of you and your usual tone of talking down at people who don't subscribe to your views.

Nah, I have plenty of decent chats on here, but it tends to be with posters that reflect that decency themselves.

[The Real Buh 3,486]

This thread sucks

[wcorkcanary 4,352]

30 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

This thread sucks

No one cares what you think. 

[canarydan23 4,062]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Depends if you find a title winning season more enjoyable than finishing 14th in the prem or whatever. But I certainly agree you're welcome to prefer the Mcnally years over the Webber years - each to their own. 

But then the Webber dynasty would need off field improvements factored in, etc etc. 🙃

I undoubtedly enjoyed the first Championship season more than our Prem survival years, second one not so much because it was all through a TV screen, no one's fault.

But on the field, Norwich under McNally was objectively more successful that under the Webber, its disingenuous to say that two Championship titles trumps anything for the previous twenty years. We had better stabs at the Prem under Doncaster and McNally than we have managed under Stuart Webber. And were similarly financially shackled then too. Furthermore, the Webber successes were in part built on players he inherited from the McNally regime; Maddison, the Murphys, Lewis and Aarons were already in the building.

[hogesar 9,773]

8 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I undoubtedly enjoyed the first Championship season more than our Prem survival years, second one not so much because it was all through a TV screen, no one's fault.

But on the field, Norwich under McNally was objectively more successful that under the Webber, its disingenuous to say that two Championship titles trumps anything for the previous twenty years. We had better stabs at the Prem under Doncaster and McNally than we have managed under Stuart Webber. And were similarly financially shackled then too. Furthermore, the Webber successes were in part built on players he inherited from the McNally regime; Maddison, the Murphys, Lewis and Aarons were already in the building.

Don't disagree with a lot of that, if we are just focusing on field - but for me title wins are more special and something that goes in the history books. 

I think McNally performed well in his role and perhaps his undoing was showing a bit too much ambition in his final season, missing out on top targets.

But to be fair, that's the difference for me. McNally went to make a name for himself as much as anything else with those top targets. Comparatively Webber spent nothing that first window and took the stick from everyone in the media, but protected the clubs long term interests and improved so much off the field with the money.

[slaphead 17]

Oh dear, all I was getting do you think the club has 

no money should be paying the Webber two this kind of salery. By paying any person £520.000.00 bonus at our club that's all. That's why I bought the shares to start with to help the club. 

[canarydan23 4,062]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Don't disagree with a lot of that, if we are just focusing on field - but for me title wins are more special and something that goes in the history books. 

I think McNally performed well in his role and perhaps his undoing was showing a bit too much ambition in his final season, missing out on top targets.

But to be fair, that's the difference for me. McNally went to make a name for himself as much as anything else with those top targets. Comparatively Webber spent nothing that first window and took the stick from everyone in the media, but protected the clubs long term interests and improved so much off the field with the money.

I agree, his strategy was excellent in those first three seasons; however, you cannot ignore the fact that the reason we spent so little in that first season in the Prem with Farke was to fund infrastructure plans, ensure we were in good shape to come back up in the event of an inevitable relegation and then spend some serious cash at the second attempt. The strategy failed, spectacularly and embarrassingly. Getting 21 points when the only money you spent was on Sam Byram is understandable. Getting 22 points after spending north of £60 million is painfully poor. And we followed that season up with one of our worst seasons for a decade.

He has an opportunity to rectify that and on the evidence of the first few games it looks promising, but if we repeat another season like last year, then on the pitch, where it matters, he'll leave us in a worse position than when he joined us. And all the infrastructure in the world won't change that. 

[Sufyellow 225]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Yes they did, temporarily.

That's better than stinking out the prem like the last attempt.  We couldn't even argue with the media and other fans,  because we were that bad . I remember Southampton away a 2 mile walk back to the car with their fans taking the mick, everything they said was right. 

[essex canary 508]

23 minutes ago, slaphead said:

Oh dear, all I was getting do you think the club has 

no money should be paying the Webber two this kind of salery. By paying any person £520.000.00 bonus at our club that's all. That's why I bought the shares to start with to help the club. 

That was entirely my point. When purchasing shares in 2002 the club salary bill was £8 million with the ITV Digital crisis being the driver. Last set of accounts £118 million when swimming in TV money for a rock bottom Premier League season. Meanwhile apparently our club share price is the same as 21 years ago and as I posted earlier a Club like King's Lynn could have their very existence threatened over a £500,000 Covid Loan. 

Some people on here just want to get abusive because they don't like the viewpoints and think the re-emerged sea of debt is fine.

[SFCanary 7]

Quote

Overall, the median FTSE 250 CEO was paid £1.8m in 2022

Seems like a reasonable salary for the size of the club company. There are lawyers in London who make around £3-400k a year. It's a lot of money but what do you expect? It's like everyone on this board is a business major and knows how to run a company with hundreds of employees. 😂

What do people honestly think is a "reasonable" salary?

[slaphead 17]

Well said Essex Canary, on this site you are no allowed have a  opinion with out people being so childish. Grow up. Go read the Dandy. 

 

[dylanisabaddog 5,024]

7 hours ago, SFCanary said:

Seems like a reasonable salary for the size of the club company. There are lawyers in London who make around £3-400k a year. It's a lot of money but what do you expect? It's like everyone on this board is a business major and knows how to run a company with hundreds of employees. 😂

What do people honestly think is a "reasonable" salary?

A good point. The fact that the vacancy is proving difficult to fill says it all. Anyone in the top 25 of their profession in this country is likely to be paid a lot of money. The number of people with the knowledge and experience to do the job is very small. 

You've mentioned lawyers in London but a partner of a medium size firm of solicitors in Norwich makes around £300k a year. That will seem like a lot of money to someone on an average salary but it's the way of the world. 

[essex canary 508]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

A good point. The fact that the vacancy is proving difficult to fill says it all. Anyone in the top 25 of their profession in this country is likely to be paid a lot of money. The number of people with the knowledge and experience to do the job is very small. 

You've mentioned lawyers in London but a partner of a medium size firm of solicitors in Norwich makes around £300k a year. That will seem like a lot of money to someone on an average salary but it's the way of the world. 

Are we talking about 1 salary here or 2 in the case of the Webbers?

The context is the Club can have a magnificent season on a £34 million Turnover or an abject one on £134 million Turnover, both of which have occurred recently.

The £100 million difference is substantially constituted by a block allocation of TV money paid by football fans in general or hiking prices onto the Club's loyal fans whose economic position hasn't changed.

What exactly is the definition of the service we are talking about in allocating Club income to its essential support services together with appropriate incentives?

[dylanisabaddog 5,024]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

Are we talking about 1 salary here or 2 in the case of the Webbers?

The context is the Club can have a magnificent season on a £34 million Turnover or an abject one on £134 million Turnover, both of which have occurred recently.

The £100 million difference is substantially constituted by a block allocation of TV money paid by football fans in general or hiking prices onto the Club's loyal fans whose economic position hasn't changed.

What exactly is the definition of the service we are talking about in allocating Club income to its essential support services together with appropriate incentives?

I'm afraid you're out of touch with salaries at a high level. There are over 2 million people that earn in excess of £100k in this country. 

An average Managing Director of a medium size company (like Norwich City) will earn in excess of £400k and a Finance Director will be around £325k.  Most of those people would be able to move from one sector to another and be effective quite quickly. Football is different and is littered with people who thought that their business experience would enable them to run a football club. They usually can't, in fact there are 2 very good local examples in Robert Chase and Marcus Evans. 

To run a football club you need all the skills of a standard MD and an in depth knowledge of the football industry on top. People like that are rare which is why we have 2 people to do the job. 

Your attitude to the salaries being paid smacks of either ignorance, jealousy or perhaps both.

The number of people capable of doing the job at Norwich City is tiny and it's no surprise we're struggling to find someone. This forum is good evidence of that. I can only think of 2 posters that have the financial knowledge to do it but neither has a strong knowledge of the football industry. 

[essex canary 508]

13 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I'm afraid you're out of touch with salaries at a high level. There are over 2 million people that earn in excess of £100k in this country. 

An average Managing Director of a medium size company (like Norwich City) will earn in excess of £400k and a Finance Director will be around £325k.  Most of those people would be able to move from one sector to another and be effective quite quickly. Football is different and is littered with people who thought that their business experience would enable them to run a football club. They usually can't, in fact there are 2 very good local examples in Robert Chase and Marcus Evans. 

To run a football club you need all the skills of a standard MD and an in depth knowledge of the football industry on top. People like that are rare which is why we have 2 people to do the job. 

Your attitude to the salaries being paid smacks of either ignorance, jealousy or perhaps both.

The number of people capable of doing the job at Norwich City is tiny and it's no surprise we're struggling to find someone. This forum is good evidence of that. I can only think of 2 posters that have the financial knowledge to do it but neither has a strong knowledge of the football industry. 

A little like the politicians network where they get multiple consultancy jobs for themselves, recommend that the rest of the senior population retrain as white van delivery drivers and the fabric of society collapses due to inequalities of income and wealth.

And I guess the share prices of these medium sized companies haven't increased in 21 years?

Edited September 11, 2023 by essex canary

[essex canary 508]

13 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Only where you are concerned.

I can recall some other instances. Would you like them taken into consideration?

Just another case of not practising what we preach.

[hogesar 9,773]

19 minutes ago, essex canary said:

A little like the politicians network where they get multiple consultancy jobs for themselves, recommend that the rest of the senior population retrain as white van delivery drivers and the fabric of society collapses due to inequalities of income and wealth.

And I guess the share prices of these medium sized companies haven't increased in 21 years?

As you feel strongly about it, what do you think a fair salary for Zoe / Stuarts job positions are? 

My concern is whilst it would be lovely to have far more performance-related salary bonuses rather than big basic one's, I'm not sure that's competitive in an industry where, even in this division, clubs will chuck £60,000 a week at a single player. 

And we can't afford "best in class" players because the salaries are north of that figure.

But we can just about afford "best in class" in other areas of the club, if we're willing to sacrifice some potential transfer budget to do so.