Riots in Sweden

[cambridgeshire canary 6,810]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66706937

 

"Sweden has pledged to explore legal means of abolishing protests that involve burning texts in certain circumstances"

 

Who could have seen that modern 21st century Europe having at last freed itself from the shackles of Christianity would then slide so quickly into implementing religious blasphemy law?

 

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

51 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66706937

 

"Sweden has pledged to explore legal means of abolishing protests that involve burning texts in certain circumstances"

 

Who could have seen that modern 21st century Europe having at last freed itself from the shackles of Christianity would then slide so quickly into implementing religious blasphemy law?

 

The article states that the people involved have previously been investigated for 'incitement of hatred'.

[TheGunnShow 6,018]

Religious fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, really are snowflakes, aren't they? Rioting just because someone flambeed their "holy" book.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,810]

9 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

The article states that the people involved have previously been investigated for 'incitement of hatred'.

So you're telling me people that are happy to burn cars and houses down beacause someone might burn some paper might be angry, hatefilled morons?

[TheGunnShow 6,018]

59 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

So you're telling me people that are happy to burn cars and houses down beacause someone might burn some paper might be angry, hatefilled morons?

Right, the chap behind the Quran burning got nobbled for threatening an Eritrean asylum seeker with a knife in Sweden. He might not be any better.

Salwan Momika: Quran burnings for freedom or money? (aa.com.tr)

[Herman 9,833]

It's all a bit unnecessary and provocative. Whatever you think of the religion you don't need to do this.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

It's all a bit unnecessary and provocative. Whatever you think of the religion you don't need to do this.

Why should burning a religious text be considered unnecessary and provocative without considering burning flags or vandalising statues unnecessary and provocative?

Edited September 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

10 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Right, the chap behind the Quran burning got nobbled for threatening an Eritrean asylum seeker with a knife in Sweden. He might not be any better.

Salwan Momika: Quran burnings for freedom or money? (aa.com.tr)

"Salwan Momika, an Iraqi refugee living in Stockholm, has recently been making headlines over his repeated acts of desecration of the Quran causing a diplomatic row between many Muslim countries and Sweden."

This completely reinforces my point elsewhere about our own governments acting in our own societies to appease countries in the Middle East.

What's the point of giving refuge to people oppressed by Islam only to change our own society so that Islam can be similarly oppressive in our own society? If he's making gestures like this against Islam, the obvious question is how Islam has affected him to make him feel like this. One wonders why nobody has asked him.

[Indy 3,322]

It’s always about religion, as always rather than have a normal and tolerant society, there’s always the extreme people on each side who cause the reaction and cause problems!

I would love to see a country which has the courage to totally ban all religions, I wonder is those who decide to live in total atheism would fare better than a mixed religion society which can have low tolerance for others outside their beliefs!

It’s so sad that we live in a modern world filled with such people who have to make problems out of their own views! Why burn anything to protest, why the need to be actively inflammatory and why such a reaction! Sad world.

[TheGunnShow 6,018]

Fry a copy of the Bible, Talmud and Quran all at once and see who yelps the loudest. Islamic extremism / Sharia law is not something I care for in the slightest, but it's the Christian headbangers like Jacob Rees-Mogg who are the most pressing danger and problem in the UK right now.

47 minutes ago, Indy said:

It’s always about religion, as always rather than have a normal and tolerant society, there’s always the extreme people on each side who cause the reaction and cause problems!

I would love to see a country which has the courage to totally ban all religions, I wonder is those who decide to live in total atheism would fare better than a mixed religion society which can have low tolerance for others outside their beliefs!

It’s so sad that we live in a modern world filled with such people who have to make problems out of their own views! Why burn anything to protest, why the need to be actively inflammatory and why such a reaction! Sad world.

Regarding the bit in bold, so would I. At the same time, what is used to classify can be used, by definition, to divide. If it's not religion, it could well be perceived social class, gender... the list is endless.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Why should burning a religious text be considered unnecessary and provocative without considering burning flags or vandalising statues unnecessary and provocative?

Two wrongs etc. Shouldn't we be trying to convince them to live more like the way we do?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

"Salwan Momika, an Iraqi refugee living in Stockholm, has recently been making headlines over his repeated acts of desecration of the Quran causing a diplomatic row between many Muslim countries and Sweden."

This completely reinforces my point elsewhere about our own governments acting in our own societies to appease countries in the Middle East.

What's the point of giving refuge to people oppressed by Islam only to change our own society so that Islam can be similarly oppressive in our own society? If he's making gestures like this against Islam, the obvious question is how Islam has affected him to make him feel like this. One wonders why nobody has asked him.

I don't see Islam as being oppressive UK society. 

[Naturalcynic 674]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Fry a copy of the Bible, Talmud and Quran all at once and see who yelps the loudest. Islamic extremism / Sharia law is not something I care for in the slightest, but it's the Christian headbangers like Jacob Rees-Mogg who are the most pressing danger and problem in the UK right now.

Regarding the bit in bold, so would I. At the same time, what is used to classify can be used, by definition, to divide. If it's not religion, it could well be perceived social class, gender... the list is endless.

Has JRM rioted because someone offended his religion?

[Naturalcynic 674]

42 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I don't see Islam as being oppressive UK society. 

Tell that to the teacher in Batley.

[Naturalcynic 674]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

It’s always about religion, as always rather than have a normal and tolerant society, there’s always the extreme people on each side who cause the reaction and cause problems!

I would love to see a country which has the courage to totally ban all religions, I wonder is those who decide to live in total atheism would fare better than a mixed religion society which can have low tolerance for others outside their beliefs!

It’s so sad that we live in a modern world filled with such people who have to make problems out of their own views! Why burn anything to protest, why the need to be actively inflammatory and why such a reaction! Sad world.

Didn’t the USSR try that?

[Herman 9,833]

12 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Has JRM rioted because someone offended his religion?

Nope, but he's trashed Britain while using his Christianity as a cloak. 

[Naturalcynic 674]

8 minutes ago, Herman said:

Nope, but he's trashed Britain while using his Christianity as a cloak. 

Hmmm, many things have contributed to Britain being trashed, but I really don’t think much of that is attributable to JRM.

[Indy 3,322]

36 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Didn’t the USSR try that?

 No always deeply religious in russia, anti monarchy!

[Naturalcynic 674]

34 minutes ago, Indy said:

 No always deeply religious in russia, anti monarchy!

But they certainly tried to eliminate religion and replace it with Marxist-Leninist atheism.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,810]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

 No always deeply religious in russia, anti monarchy!

 

27 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

But they certainly tried to eliminate religion and replace it with Marxist-Leninist atheism.

What's rather amusing is that the iconic Saint Basil's Cathedral (You know that big fancy colourful church in the middle of Moscow that dates back to the 1500's) was one of very few religious buildings that was able to survive the USSR despite the mass purges against the religious and the plans to demolish all religious places as many all across Russia loved it's design too much with it being once claimed even Stalin once said it was his favorite building in all of Russia. Sure, during the USSR it was turned into a museum but they did at least respect the architecture and iconology that religion could bring.

Edited September 5, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[king canary 7,679]

8 hours ago, Herman said:

It's all a bit unnecessary and provocative. Whatever you think of the religion you don't need to do this.

You might not need to but fundementally, in a free, secular country you should be able to without it provoking riots.

[TheGunnShow 6,018]

1 hour ago, Naturalcynic said:

Has JRM rioted because someone offended his religion?

Has anyone burned a Bible here to find out what that ilk of person would do?

Incidentally, Sweden also permitted a protester to fry up a Torah and a Bible, but the protester changed his mind. Gotta give them credit for being consistent.

Bible burning in Stockholm cancelled: 'It’s not freedom of expression to burn holy books' (brusselstimes.com) 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Tell that to the teacher in Batley.

If your class is full of Muslims you know not to antagonise just as you would expect white British to protest if told they were going to study the Koran. I am an atheist so when the Jehovahs get to my gate I shout loudly "No, please go away and add me to the list". Its worked. I don't sing the National Anthem because of God save the King.

Education shouldn't be one size fits all. None of us have any proof about religion or beliefs. Including Muslims. But the ycannot see why we don't believe when its so perfectly obvious to me anyway.

So if they want the teachings of Islam then let them have them. Especially from a moderate Imam. If people want Catholicism or Judaism then fine. 

[Mr Angry 1,571]

3 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Has JRM rioted because someone offended his religion?

He hasn’t rioted but he is revolting.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I don't see Islam as being oppressive UK society. 

I do. Attempts to engage the wider Islamic community over how radicalisation of Muslims continually occurs in the UK is shut down. It's not just Yaxley-Lennon either. When Sarah Champion wrote an article about the Rotherham grooming gangs, a Labour front-bencher, she was forced to resign from the Labour front bench. Eric Pickles wrote a very tactful letter following the Manchester bombings callng for more to be done within the Islamic community that got lambasted as an attack that it wasn't doing enough.

I thought the line about Islamic fascism summed it up; Islamic extremism may as well be a form of fascism, and one that you and those like you are guilty of abetting through your refusal to accept that the wider Islamic community must play an active and enthusiastic part in stamping it  out and should account for itself where it fails.

There does need to be balance. It's to be accepted that Muslims are a minority in the UK and as such do merit protection from persecution like any other minority, but that doesn't put them above reproach for the failures of the wider Islamic community regarding Islamic extremism, nor should they be exempt from turning the other cheek when their icons are lampooned as everybody else must in a civilised society. It's the responsibility of all Muslims to deal with that because it's a problem within Islam in the UK that no non-Muslim can address.

Edited September 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Naturalcynic 674]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

If your class is full of Muslims you know not to antagonise just as you would expect white British to protest if told they were going to study the Koran. I am an atheist so when the Jehovahs get to my gate I shout loudly "No, please go away and add me to the list". Its worked. I don't sing the National Anthem because of God save the King.

Education shouldn't be one size fits all. None of us have any proof about religion or beliefs. Including Muslims. But the ycannot see why we don't believe when its so perfectly obvious to me anyway.

So if they want the teachings of Islam then let them have them. Especially from a moderate Imam. If people want Catholicism or Judaism then fine. 

That’s alarmingly close to excusing Islamism.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

Nope, but he's trashed Britain while using his Christianity as a cloak. 

In what way has JRM been shielded from criticism on account of being ostensibly Christian?

[Indy 3,322]

My philosophy on religion, it’s all ****! Humanity needs to learn life is short and we all need to respect each other as humans without prejudice! If not you should all be shot! 😂😂😂

[cambridgeshire canary 6,810]

29 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

In what way has JRM been shielded from criticism on account of being ostensibly Christian?

He hasnt. You can tear up a bible in the middle of London and the worst you're going to get is a few tuts, judgementel looks and people chanting "down with this sort of thing!" at you.

But try tearing up a Quran? Well I imagine you're getting either arrested or lynched. Is that teacher who showed a picture of Mohamed during a Religious studies class still in police protection and on the run?

Edited September 5, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[littleyellowbirdie 2,597]

18 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

He hasnt. You can tear up a bible in the middle of London and the worst you're going to get is a few tuts, judgementel looks and people chanting "down with this sort of thing!" at you.

But try tearing up a Quran? Well I imagine you're getting either arrested or lynched. Is that teacher who showed a picture of Mohamed during a Religious studies class still in police protection and on the run?

This is an interesting thing isn't it? Those particular protests were against the teaching of transgender ideas and, to be honest, I suspect there's a lot of people quietly pleased that they had the gumption to protest and push back on that subject - I'd cheerfully admit I'm completely on their side on that issue - but equally I think there's also a bit of resentment that, had anyone else been protesting over the transgender argument regarding being taught in schools like that, they'd have Antifa turning up to pick a fight.

Edit: Completely on their side is too strong: I get, respect and empathise that there's a lot of serious struggles people have on the transgender subject, but I'm still completely against young prepubescent children being confused with these ideas, and in that specific area, their willingness to protest is to be applauded.

Edited September 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie