Diane Abbott suspended from Labour Party

[Herman 9,825]

I'm not bloody well wrong.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Get your facts straight before you start.

Refugees don't have to claim asylum in the first 'safe' country. Google it.

That's factually correct and the main driving force for resentment against those crossing illegally.

 

[Herman 9,825]

15 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Resorting to personally insulting people who have a different point of view to yourself doesn’t make for a convincing argument I’m afraid.

You accuse Bravermann and Farage of being racist yet haven’t given me a single quote of theirs that I’d class as racism as most people would understand it. Unless you can prove that they’ve abused or insulted people solely because of their skin colour, race or nationality then I’ll have to assume they’re not in fact racist but merely have different political viewpoints in regards to immigration.

Abbott on the other hand once says that nurses at a London hospital were “blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" and were not suitable to be nurses because they had "never met a black person before". To me that’s a racist remark implying that people aren’t able to do their job due to their ethnicity 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65249872

https://news.sky.com/story/holocaust-survivor-says-home-secretarys-words-are-similar-to-those-of-nazi-germany-12786451

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/07/nigel-farage-helping-to-legitimise-racism-justin-welby-says

https://www.channel4.com/news/nigel-farage-ukip-letter-school-concerns-racism-fascism

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

11 minutes ago, Herman said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65249872

https://news.sky.com/story/holocaust-survivor-says-home-secretarys-words-are-similar-to-those-of-nazi-germany-12786451

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/07/nigel-farage-helping-to-legitimise-racism-justin-welby-says

https://www.channel4.com/news/nigel-farage-ukip-letter-school-concerns-racism-fascism

BBC, SKY, the bloody Guardian and Channel4, ffs! All Lefty biased and the majority in this country have had their fill of 'em, Herman. You must realise this by now.

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

So why haven't you sacked her, you dіѕіnɡеnuоuѕ ѕhуѕtеr?

[Fen Canary 867]

19 minutes ago, Herman said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65249872

https://news.sky.com/story/holocaust-survivor-says-home-secretarys-words-are-similar-to-those-of-nazi-germany-12786451

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/07/nigel-farage-helping-to-legitimise-racism-justin-welby-says

https://www.channel4.com/news/nigel-farage-ukip-letter-school-concerns-racism-fascism

It’s telling that in all those examples you’ve provided there isn’t a single quote with racist language in it. The BBC and Sky pieces are simply other people objecting to using words such as invasion to describe the boats coming across the Channel, The Guardian piece is Welbys personal opinion, and him objecting to Farage discussing sexual assaults carried out by some migrants and the Channel 4 one appears to be just hearsay from his schooldays. 

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's factually correct and the main driving force for resentment against those crossing illegally.

 

It might be an awkward truth for some but if people base their opinions on falsehoods then all is already lost.

As you know France takes far more immigrants than the UK but you wouldn't believe it listening to some on here.

If we base discussions and opinions on facts and not convenient fictions we might actually make better functional policies. That by the way applies to Abbott as well.

[Fen Canary 867]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

It might be an awkward truth for some but if people base their opinions on falsehoods then all is already lost.

As you know France takes far more immigrants than the UK but you wouldn't believe it listening to some on here.

If we base discussions and opinions on facts and not convenient fictions we might actually make better functional policies. That by the way applies to Abbott as well.

I’d argue how many France takes is irrelevant though. It’s up to the French how many they wish to take and what to do with the rest, and I believe it’s up to the British electorate to decide the same. However this is getting rather off topic of Abbotts continuing racism.

If she had attacked the Indian or Muslim community the way she does old whitey she’d have been out on her ear ages ago 

[Herman 9,825]

5 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I’d argue how many France takes is irrelevant though. It’s up to the French how many they wish to take and what to do with the rest, and I believe it’s up to the British electorate to decide the same. However this is getting rather off topic of Abbotts continuing racism.

If she had attacked the Indian or Muslim community the way she does old whitey she’d have been out on her ear ages ago 

You did. The British electorate said "we don't need any special agreements with France, nor the Dublin Regulation. We can sort this out ourselves." And now look at the mess your idiocy has caused.

Technically Abbott wasn't being racist in this case. Just a complete dimwit who wrote a nonsensical letter showing a lack of knowledge of what non-black people have suffered from.

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

8 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I’d argue how many France takes is irrelevant though. It’s up to the French how many they wish to take and what to do with the rest, and I believe it’s up to the British electorate to decide the same. However this is getting rather off topic of Abbotts continuing racism.

If she had attacked the Indian or Muslim community the way she does old whitey she’d have been out on her ear ages ago 

Just trying to keep people grounded on the facts Fen.

I think however KG nailed Abbot earlier - she basically now see's everything through the optics of 'black' 'victimhood and can't see broader trends or narratives. It's a sad position for someone, like her or not,  who deserves praise for originally breaking through the glass ceiling and becoming the first black MP.  

@KG "Why does she think only she has suffered only because of the colour of her skin? She has become consumed by her hatred of those who she believes hate her.

[CrankyCanary 32]

12 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

BBC, SKY, the bloody Guardian and Channel4, ffs! All Lefty biased and the majority in this country have had their fill of 'em, Herman. You must realise this by now.

Other than Channel 4 none of those are Left Wing. The Guardian is borderline.

[Fen Canary 867]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

You did. The British electorate said "we don't need any special agreements with France, nor the Dublin Regulation. We can sort this out ourselves." And now look at the mess your idiocy has caused.

Technically Abbott wasn't being racist in this case. Just a complete dimwit who wrote a nonsensical letter showing a lack of knowledge of what non-black people have suffered from.

Do you believe France would be preventing those boats leaving its shores or taking back those Albanians crossing the Channel if we were still in the EU? We also don’t know if the offshore processing will work as it hasn’t been allowed to be trialled yet, if it gets going it may end up as a successful deterrent similar to Australia’s scheme

[Fen Canary 867]

4 minutes ago, CrankyCanary said:

Other than Channel 4 none of those are Left Wing. The Guardian is borderline.

The Guardian not left wing? Are you insane? It’s almost a parody of the new progressive left

[Fen Canary 867]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Just trying to keep people grounded on the facts Fen.

I think however KG nailed Abbot earlier - she basically now see's everything through the optics of 'black' 'victimhood and can't see broader trends or narratives. It's a sad position for someone, like her or not,  who deserves praise for originally breaking through the glass ceiling and becoming the first black MP.  

@KG "Why does she think only she has suffered only because of the colour of her skin? She has become consumed by her hatred of those who she believes hate her.

I agree, it’s almost similar to the conspiracy loons who fall down the rabbit hole online, everything she sees now unfortunately seems to be through the prism of racism even when it isn’t actually there

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm not derailing anything. Herman made a charge on this thread and he's wrong. I'm saying why.

Your perpetual complaints about what I post while you turn a blind eye elsewhere are starting to get on my nerves. Herman's comment had nothing to do with Diane Abbott, but I mentioned her in mine at least...

I only post certain things because you clearly like to bring round posts to subjects other than the OP, at times. I am not getting at you. But you are quite happy to tell people they are wrong. Not that you just disagree. You tell them they are wrong. If we all took that attitude, there would be no point posting.

You started contributing some good posts and threads originally. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

 

8 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I only post certain things because you clearly like to bring round posts to subjects other than the OP, at times. I am not getting at you. But you are quite happy to tell people they are wrong. Not that you just disagree. You tell them they are wrong. If we all took that attitude, there would be no point posting.

You started contributing some good posts and threads originally. 

Everyone does take the attitude that only they are right on here. Your argument singling me out is getting really boring.

I did not bring immigration into this thread; it was already in the thread when I turned up. Trace back and chastise someone else.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

On 24/04/2023 at 07:42, Herman said:

Unfortunately brexit and the current tory party have a great stench of racism, bigotry and xenophobia to them. English nationalism has been in charge for these last few years and it ain't pretty.

C'mon @keelansgrandad, this is the first post that had f**k all to do with Diane Abbott on here. Get your **** in gear and put the reprimand where it's merited.

[Herman 9,825]

Snitches get stitches.😉

[NFN FC 1,123]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Snitches get stitches.😉

And stitches get bit©hes! 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

25 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

C'mon @keelansgrandad, this is the first post that had f**k all to do with Diane Abbott on here. Get your **** in gear and put the reprimand where it's merited.

I think you will find Fen brought it up first.

And as regards to opinions, I would only tell somebody they were wrong if I knew objectively they were wrong. Subjectively I might disagree and sometimes vehemently but I don't tell people their opinions are wrong.

I'm not trying to fall out with you. I'm just finding your posts far more condescending then we are entitled to.

Edited April 25, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

I do think Diane Abbott deserves some slack on this subject. People need to remember that she's nearly 70 years old and the daughter of Windrush immigrants from Jamaica. These were the people that Clement Attlee tried to reroute to West Africa and described at the time as 'an incursion'. She was also one of the pioneers pushing through in serious careers in the face of real institutional racism where it was so entrenched hardly anybody would question it.

I'm mindful of my great uncle and what he used to say about 'w o g s' without even thinking about it and cringing, even though it was just us there. He was 80 and too old to change, but he was a decent and kind man who'd always help anyone. These sort of attitudes pass with the generations. Like him, she's a bit of a dinosaur, just with different baggage. I don't think it's fair to expect someone that old to let go of that sort of deep-rooted resentment.

What's really sad is to see younger generations taking arguably more extreme attitudes than she does after so much work has been done over the years to try and move society on to something more tolerant. There's a danger that the insistence of perpetuating these grievances in such an angry fashion has contributed substantially to the impression that tolerance, understanding, and consideration on race related issues is going backwards.

Edited April 25, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think you will find Fen brought it up first.

And as regards to opinions, I would only tell somebody they were wrong if I knew objectively they were wrong. Subjectively I might disagree and sometimes vehemently but I don't tell people their opinions are wrong.

I'm not trying to fall out with you. I'm just finding your posts far more condescending then we are entitled to.

But he is wrong. I'm not disputing that hostility to immigration can be driven by bigotry, but that's a subset; there are plenty of valid reasons to oppose uncontrolled immigration that aren't remotely bigoted.

Edited April 25, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

21 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I do think Diane Abbott deserves some slack on this subject. People need to remember that she's nearly 70 years old and the daughter of Windrush immigrants from Jamaica. These were the people that Clement Attlee tried to reroute to West Africa and described at the time as 'an incursion'. She was also one of the pioneers pushing through in serious careers in the face of real institutional racism where it was so entrenched hardly anybody would question it.

I'm mindful of my great uncle and what he used to say about 'w o g s' without even thinking about it and cringing, even though it was just us there. He was 80 and too old to change, but he was a decent and kind man who'd always help anyone. These sort of attitudes pass with the generations. Like him, she's a bit of a dinosaur, just with different baggage. I don't think it's fair to expect someone that old to let go of that sort of deep-rooted resentment.

What's really sad is to see younger generations taking arguably more extreme attitudes than she does after so much work has been done over the years to try and move society on to something more tolerant. There's a danger that the insistence of perpetuating these grievances in such an angry fashion has contributed substantially to the impression that tolerance, understanding, and consideration on race related issues is going backwards.

You are right about the extremism. We are not revolutionaries anymore. Modern history has taught us that the right way is evolution.

Diane was of course a disciple and apprentice of Bernie Grant. I have always pondered whether radical socialism found them or they chose it because of the colour of their skin. And Diane must realise the difference in attitude since her birth, in Britain, in the 50s. Choosing to join groups such as the Labour Black Sections seemed to me to create a divide most were trying to close.

And she must accept how she perceives others such as Jews and Gypsies is equally hurtful and appallingly naive.

I will wager that when my grandchildren are my age, racism will be virtually non existent in the UK. 

 

[Herman 9,825]

On 24/04/2023 at 13:13, Herman said:

Bravermann is not even attempting to fix the problem. She's just using racism and divisive words as part of her ongoing culture war crap. 

 

It sounds as if Enoch Bravermann and Integrity Jenrick have gone back to 30s Germany. Will they generate as much anger as Abbott's idiocy. 

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

17 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

You are right about the extremism. We are not revolutionaries anymore. Modern history has taught us that the right way is evolution.

Diane was of course a disciple and apprentice of Bernie Grant. I have always pondered whether radical socialism found them or they chose it because of the colour of their skin. And Diane must realise the difference in attitude since her birth, in Britain, in the 50s. Choosing to join groups such as the Labour Black Sections seemed to me to create a divide most were trying to close.

And she must accept how she perceives others such as Jews and Gypsies is equally hurtful and appallingly naive.

I will wager that when my grandchildren are my age, racism will be virtually non existent in the UK. 

 

Society moves on but equally it often leaves behind those in their older years. My guess is that Abbott is suffering from the same. Not intentional but misplaced and idiotic / unthinking statements.

I remembered that here in Norfolk seeing a furore in the last few weeks about some 'gollie w o g s' for sale in a cafe in Caister (I refuse to call them just gollies as that is just a slight of hand). Many of the older generation could see (or more were likely blind) no wrong in it yet. I write this as I had stacked in the corner of a box room a picture bought by grandparents for me as child of a train full of puppets and yes amongst them a GW. 

Times change for the better and so should our attitudes even when challenging, not stuck in some past. Time for Diane to bow out.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 24/04/2023 at 09:32, Fen Canary said:

So would abusing or discriminating against Muslims due to their religion not be classed as racism either then? 

do you mean their treatment in this country? they are discriminated as perse by the Home office. Have ministers asked us lately to offer spare space in our Houses to Afghan immigrants who helped us in our futile mission there?

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 24/04/2023 at 08:26, king canary said:

Of course you do.

Cranks gonna crank.

kingy our politics wangler at it again.

[Fen Canary 867]

6 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

do you mean their treatment in this country? they are discriminated as perse by the Home office. Have ministers asked us lately to offer spare space in our Houses to Afghan immigrants who helped us in our futile mission there?

Don’t confuse incompetence at the Home Office with discrimination

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

26 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Don’t confuse incompetence at the Home Office with discrimination

Easily done when both incompetence and racism are endemic at the Home Office, and especially its leadership.

With much of their work it is not a case of which one of their failings at play - frequently it is both.