Why does Webber leave us one player short at centre back

[Jim Smith 2,349]

Does it every season. 
 

Loaning out Tomkinson was idiotic.

yesterday it meant we had to have both Sargent and Sorensen playing out of position which cost us midfield presence/composure.

[king canary 7,681]

We got away with it last Championship season but yes it is odd to only keep three central defenders on the books. Didn't need to sign anyone but proactively loaning out the cover we do have is very questionable.

[hogesar 9,766]

Sorry, I posted elsewhere but:

Hanley

Gibson

Omobamidele

Sorensen

Byram.

Even taking into account Byram injury history that doesn't seem like we could really do another. Tomkinson is also not setting the world alight for Stevenage so arguably the club didn't see him as adequate cover.

The reality is it's the injuries to Hanley and Gibson in one game alongside the longer term injury to Byram, followed by the injuries to Mclean, Hayden, Dowell and Nunez that's caused the problem we saw yesterday. That's a pretty difficult injury situation and would completely destroy any chance of picking up points for 95% of this league

 

 

[Capt. Pants 4,298]

Well we're down to 3 from 5 for the start of next, 2 if you want Lungi to play elsewhere.

The list of requirements for next season just grows and grows.

I'm not fussed about Tomkinson anyway as clearly can't even hold down a place in a League Two team. 

[It's Character Forming 1,167]

Yes at this level Sorensen is a good CB so we have four.  There are other areas that are higher priority to strengthen this season IMO.

 

I had a concern how our CBs would fare against Hugill yesterday, he's strong and should pose an aerial threat, but as it turned out they handled him without much difficulty.

 

Tomkinson clearly needs the experience, keeping him on the bench wouldn't help him progress.

[Robert N. LiM 4,545]

11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

The reality is it's the injuries to Hanley and Gibson in one game alongside the longer term injury to Byram, followed by the injuries to Mclean

In particular having McLean injured at the same time as the two CBs. Sorensen at the back would have been no problem yesterday if Kenny had been fit. Webber certainly deserves criticism for how the squad overall has regressed since we were promoted in 2021, but I'm not sure you can lay an injury epidemic like this at his door.

[Soldier on 168]

55 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Does it every season. 
 

Loaning out Tomkinson was idiotic.

yesterday it meant we had to have both Sargent and Sorensen playing out of position which cost us midfield presence/composure.

Tomkinson can’t even make a league 2 side Jim. Your original point is valid but he is not the answer. Needs a spell at a low level where he plays games.

[Jim Smith 2,349]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Sorry, I posted elsewhere but:

Hanley

Gibson

Omobamidele

Sorensen

Byram.

Even taking into account Byram injury history that doesn't seem like we could really do another. Tomkinson is also not setting the world alight for Stevenage so arguably the club didn't see him as adequate cover.

The reality is it's the injuries to Hanley and Gibson in one game alongside the longer term injury to Byram, followed by the injuries to Mclean, Hayden, Dowell and Nunez that's caused the problem we saw yesterday. That's a pretty difficult injury situation and would completely destroy any chance of picking up points for 95% of this league

 

 

Byrsm is not a centre back snd cannot be relied upon as cover for any position given his fitness record. 

[Jim Smith 2,349]

44 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Tomkinson can’t even make a league 2 side Jim. Your original point is valid but he is not the answer. Needs a spell at a low level where he plays games.

Not saying he is “the answer” but he is the back up centre back so loaning him out was stupid. 

[hogesar 9,766]

17 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Byrsm is not a centre back snd cannot be relied upon as cover for any position given his fitness record. 

I agree he can't be relied upon due to injury record but he most certainly can play CB.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,833]

Meanwhile Ajer is staying in the Prem.

 

Still not forgiven Webber.

Edited April 11, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[hogesar 9,766]

3 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Meanwhile Ajer is staying in the Prem.

 

Still not forgiven Webber.

Although he's only made 9 appearances this season.

[king canary 7,681]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Sorry, I posted elsewhere but:

Hanley

Gibson

Omobamidele

Sorensen

Byram.

Even taking into account Byram injury history that doesn't seem like we could really do another. Tomkinson is also not setting the world alight for Stevenage so arguably the club didn't see him as adequate cover.

The reality is it's the injuries to Hanley and Gibson in one game alongside the longer term injury to Byram, followed by the injuries to Mclean, Hayden, Dowell and Nunez that's caused the problem we saw yesterday. That's a pretty difficult injury situation and would completely destroy any chance of picking up points for 95% of this league

 

 

I'm sorry how are we blaming injuries to two attacking midfielders for a shortage of central defensive options? Hayden and McLean I can understand but I've zero idea how an injury to Dowell has any impact.

Saying that we knew Hayden was injured in January, we know Byram was injured so Jim's point stands- loaning out a central defender when you're already short of numbers and dealing with injuries that affect the position is silly by Webber. 

[hogesar 9,766]

33 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm sorry how are we blaming injuries to two attacking midfielders for a shortage of central defensive options? Hayden and McLean I can understand but I've zero idea how an injury to Dowell has any impact.

Saying that we knew Hayden was injured in January, we know Byram was injured so Jim's point stands- loaning out a central defender when you're already short of numbers and dealing with injuries that affect the position is silly by Webber. 

Only really true if the manager was willing to play Tomkinson ahead of Sorensen in an event like yesterday. If the manager had said he wasn't good enough or ready so would rather play Sorensen at CB then it makes little difference.

[king canary 7,681]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Only really true if the manager was willing to play Tomkinson ahead of Sorensen in an event like yesterday. If the manager had said he wasn't good enough or ready so would rather play Sorensen at CB then it makes little difference.

Well no, not really.

Because it may be he'd rather start Sorenson all things being equal but it also may be that he'd rather have kept Sorenson in midfield and played Tomkinson, rather than reshuffling the midfield that worked so well v Blackburn. 

[hogesar 9,766]

Just now, king canary said:

Well no, not really.

Because it may be he'd rather start Sorenson all things being equal but it also may be that he'd rather have kept Sorenson in midfield and played Tomkinson, rather than reshuffling the midfield that worked so well v Blackburn. 

It may be, it may not be. Warner has been in and around the first team squad recently and is a CB but Wagner didn't deem him worth playing ahead of Sorensen so why would we think Tomkinson, struggling in League Two, would get the nod?

[FenwayFrank 2,469]

Taken from Stevenage forum, only one persons view obviously 

 

Tomkinson got booted out of the team pretty quickly, and seemed to end up a bit of a scapegoat for a couple of rough performances. I thought he looked decent, but maybe there's something others saw that I missed.

[king canary 7,681]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

It may be, it may not be. Warner has been in and around the first team squad recently and is a CB but Wagner didn't deem him worth playing ahead of Sorensen so why would we think Tomkinson, struggling in League Two, would get the nod?

Probably because he's been given game time in the first team before? 

We obviously don't know for sure, all we can do is make educated guesses. What we do know is we're back to playing a midfielder in central defence and we're one injury away from that being a midfielder and a fullback in central defence. 

[hogesar 9,766]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Probably because he's been given game time in the first team before? 

We obviously don't know for sure, all we can do is make educated guesses. What we do know is we're back to playing a midfielder in central defence and we're one injury away from that being a midfielder and a fullback in central defence. 

Just seems like a lazy criticism to me. We let a young player on loan who's struggling in League Two but the thought is our manager who clearly advocated the loan would have played this young player ahead of Sorensen yesterday, despite having a highly rated young defender available to him, who he introduced into the first-team squad as opposed to Tomkinson who was introduced via the previous management. If anything that suggests Wagner rates Warner just as highly, if not moreso. But he still didn't get a sniff yesterday. Equally Hayden didn't get an opportunity to play any minutes, and he has played at CB in his career.

[Mello Yello 2,306]

Leave Webbo alone....he's the salt of the earth....

[repman 636]

Tomkinson's loan hasn't worked out very well, he's not got the game time you would like but that doesn't mean it was a bad idea in the first place. Ideally, Tomkinson will be ready to contribute at some point in the next few seasons, all loaning him out does is give him opportunities to be ready for the moment he is needed, keeping him in the squad waiting for a set of injuries would mark a year of wasted development basically.

[king canary 7,681]

10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Just seems like a lazy criticism to me. We let a young player on loan who's struggling in League Two but the thought is our manager who clearly advocated the loan would have played this young player ahead of Sorensen yesterday, despite having a highly rated young defender available to him, who he introduced into the first-team squad as opposed to Tomkinson who was introduced via the previous management. If anything that suggests Wagner rates Warner just as highly, if not moreso. But he still didn't get a sniff yesterday. Equally Hayden didn't get an opportunity to play any minutes, and he has played at CB in his career.

I don't think it is lazy. I'd say your defence of Webber is kneejerk.

The criticism is we've approached a crucial part of the season with only 3 central defenders on our books, through choices we made. It isn't the first time either. I made the same criticism in the January window of our first Premier League season when we opted to terminate Amadou's loan and loan out Famewo while bringing nobody in to cover the central defensive hole and, lo and behold, we end up playing a clearly not fully fit Klose because we have nobody else.

Fine if Wagner and Webber don't think Tomkinson is ready but then you've got to look at bringing someone in, even on loan or a short term deal, to give us depth at a crucial position. To not do that is Webber's choice. As I said, we managed it 2 seasons ago because our central defenders largely stayed fit and Omobamidele was ready to step up. Clearly we don't feel the same about Tomkinson now so you've got to address the lack of depth. 

[hogesar 9,766]

22 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think it is lazy. I'd say your defence of Webber is kneejerk.

The criticism is we've approached a crucial part of the season with only 3 central defenders on our books, through choices we made. It isn't the first time either. I made the same criticism in the January window of our first Premier League season when we opted to terminate Amadou's loan and loan out Famewo while bringing nobody in to cover the central defensive hole and, lo and behold, we end up playing a clearly not fully fit Klose because we have nobody else.

Fine if Wagner and Webber don't think Tomkinson is ready but then you've got to look at bringing someone in, even on loan or a short term deal, to give us depth at a crucial position. To not do that is Webber's choice. As I said, we managed it 2 seasons ago because our central defenders largely stayed fit and Omobamidele was ready to step up. Clearly we don't feel the same about Tomkinson now so you've got to address the lack of depth. 

But maybe they think Warner is ready? He was training with the first team quite early into Wagners tenure and we had the option of playing him yesterday. Maybe it's just a tactical decision from Wagner? Maybe we also see Hayden as a fill-in CB so there would only ever be a couple weeks where didn't have 4 possible options? 

My whole point is Wagner could have played Warner, who he brought into the first team, if he wanted a natural CB at CB. He could have played Byram or Hayden for 45 minutes each. He could have done lots of different things because we have a big squad for this level. He opted to do none of those. 

[Jim Smith 2,349]

23 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think it is lazy. I'd say your defence of Webber is kneejerk.

The criticism is we've approached a crucial part of the season with only 3 central defenders on our books, through choices we made. It isn't the first time either. I made the same criticism in the January window of our first Premier League season when we opted to terminate Amadou's loan and loan out Famewo while bringing nobody in to cover the central defensive hole and, lo and behold, we end up playing a clearly not fully fit Klose because we have nobody else.

Fine if Wagner and Webber don't think Tomkinson is ready but then you've got to look at bringing someone in, even on loan or a short term deal, to give us depth at a crucial position. To not do that is Webber's choice. As I said, we managed it 2 seasons ago because our central defenders largely stayed fit and Omobamidele was ready to step up. Clearly we don't feel the same about Tomkinson now so you've got to address the lack of depth. 

This is my point. We ended up playing two midfielders in central defence in the prem as we went into the season with only three centre backs.

If we’d loaned out Tomkinson for development but brought in more experienced cover I’d have no issue with it but that’s not what we did and I made the point at the time that it was leaving us a centre back short. Of course Sorensen can do a job there as he can in most positions but in this run in it would be better to have him in midfield where he played Beth successfully at Blackburn. We basically now only have two midfielders available as he’s having to play CB and are again having to play Sargent and Idah in attacking midfield roles. 

[shefcanary 2,477]

Wagner's approach to home and away games has consistently diverged. Away he tends to play the extra midfielder, at home he plays the extra attacker. Which in reality, is the wrong way round, with the away team resorting to deep blocks at the Carra you really need the extra midfielder to work space for the attackers. Come on Wagner, if we can see it, why do you persist with the "all guns blazing" approach in the hope we get lucky. You make you own luck so the saying goes.

[king canary 7,681]

28 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

This is my point. We ended up playing two midfielders in central defence in the prem as we went into the season with only three centre backs.

If we’d loaned out Tomkinson for development but brought in more experienced cover I’d have no issue with it but that’s not what we did and I made the point at the time that it was leaving us a centre back short. Of course Sorensen can do a job there as he can in most positions but in this run in it would be better to have him in midfield where he played Beth successfully at Blackburn. We basically now only have two midfielders available as he’s having to play CB and are again having to play Sargent and Idah in attacking midfield roles. 

To be fair in the first Prem season we were initially just hugely unlucky. We went into the season with Hanley, Klose, Godfrey, Zimmerman and Amadou, all of whom were either central defenders or had lots of experience in the position. You can't legislate for the sheer volume of injuries we had in one position that season. 

However in January we knew Klose and Zimmerman were injured, I think Hanley may have missed some time too. So it was crazy to let two central defenders leave and bring nobody in.

[Capt. Pants 4,298]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but equally keeping our CBs fit always seems to have been an right back to when Klose was here. It does seem a bit reckless to leave us so thin.

In a way it's a shame we have Sorensen as he seems to be a good (cheap) excuse not to have specialist cover. All we want now is an injury ro Max and we will be in deep ****.

In my opinion it was wrong of Wagner to prioritise 'Rotheram 0' rather than the 3 pts.

[pete 320]

Tomlinson as predictive calls him has been injured recently.  Stevenage Comet published by wAtching have a commentary on games.  Yesterday it was reported Tommo was on the pitch at Hartlepool game during warm up but not in squad.  He is 4th choice CB. and if fit would be on bench, Stevenage use 3 CBs in starting line up so would want option on bench.

 

Tommo was quite good in only City start in harrow loss to Burnley.  Would have played yesterday if fit, given he is a City player fitness always questionable.