Transgender rapist to be moved from women's prison

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

The issue is that the problem - as I see it - is actually two things. 1) Predatory men and 2) the patriarchy. It’s predatory men who make putting trans women into women’s prisons difficult and it’s the patriarchy that means everyone is very much not equal regardless of gender, whether assigned at birth or chosen later. Until we fix those, ignoring gender, while a laudable aim, just isn’t going to work in practice. (Biology also plays a part of course, but that’s even harder to fix)

I do think it’s ironic that some people who are born as men seem to be the ones who think they are entitled to behave exactly as they like i.e. as a woman. Despite wanting to be treated like a woman they appear to have very little understanding of the idea of sisterhood and standing with their “fellow” women. Precisely because they have benefitted from growing up as a man, they have no experience of the challenges that simply being female creates. Those who have always been women (and those who listen to the experiences of women) understand why there is a need for truly single sex spaces, and separate categories for women in things like music awards (are you listening Sam Smith?). Why don’t we hear protests from trans men? Partly because they are joining a privileged group, so gaining. Trans activists protest when they come up against women who don’t want to lose a few hard won protections but don’t acknowledge why those protections are in place.

I think this is where we get side tracked.

There are predatory women, predatory men, predatory gay and trans men and women too. I don't care and certainly don't hold to the idea that any are 'special' cases and need special spaces if in prison. These predatory what-evers are dangers to all.

My argument is just based on practicality within the prison environment.

[Nuff Said 5,178]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think this is where we get side tracked.

There are predatory women, predatory men, predatory gay and trans men and women too. I don't care and certainly don't hold to the idea that any are 'special' cases and need special spaces if in prison. These predatory what-evers are dangers to all.

My argument is just based on practicality within the prison environment.

Now,I think about it, the predatory men point is actually about the patriarchy too. We live in a society where the attitude of many men is that women are sexual objects and exist to a lesser or greater extent, to serve them and for their pleasure. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

For me, the crime and punishment element of this story is secondary to the fact that the story highlights in a very concrete way how this new thinking on gender has been steamrollered into governance with far-reaching consequences with little regard to legitimate public concerns. In fact, people who have raised concerns regardless of how delicate they have been about it, have been made into a pariah.

I mean, let's take this in a new direction. If gender should now be truly meaningless and everyone's gender is purely a matter of their own perception of themselves, what do people think about all people just giving up on it and sharing changing rooms and toilets? Why not make all prisons mixed? Why not just make all sport mixed gender?

Well for me, a rapist is much like a murderer. If someone goes out with the intention of violently, maybe fatally, attacking someone and raping them, then the public must be protected and they must be punished first and foremost.

So to be honest, I couldn't give a fcuk what a rapist identifies as. If at the time he had male genitals and used them in his crime then he gets sentenced and interred for what he was at the time.

If it were to happen to any of the females in my greater family, I would be after blood and the discussions about rights, gender etc would go right over my head.

I am going to expand it by saying so much of all this bull is a fashion. There was a time not so long ago that many young women were saying they were Lesbian. They weren't. It was a fashion. I personally know of three young who said they might be Lesbian because they fancied their friend. And now they are happily back gnoshing on some lads pork sword.

See, I'm getting crude now because all this siht is driving me mad. I'm fed up with people sympathising with criminals and not the victims. I'm fed up with a lad that I know knocking down and killing two people while over the limit, lying to the Police and when caught out getting two and a half years only. In fact he killed three because the son of the couple took his own life shortly after.

I'm fed up with them saying Paedophiles have been rehabilitated. I'm fed up that Sacoolas can walk free. I'm fed up that people are sympathising with Begum and want her repatriated. I'm fed up Zahawi can carry on as an MP.

I'm also fed up with people who have contributed fcuk all to this nation from birth telling us they are under privileged. As a Socialist, I can tell you that I don't have a middle class conscience. My family didn't profit from the expansion of the Empire or East India Company. I don't have guilt about the slave trade. Built we didn't build the welfare state and introduce worker rights just for others to take advantage.

Of course we have to have laws and basic rights. I was a Trade Union Secretary who fought for them. But just like the Ten Commandments, they are a guideline to how you should live your life. They must not be taken for granted or used for the wrong reason.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well for me, a rapist is much like a murderer. If someone goes out with the intention of violently, maybe fatally, attacking someone and raping them, then the public must be protected and they must be punished first and foremost.

So to be honest, I couldn't give a fcuk what a rapist identifies as. If at the time he had male genitals and used them in his crime then he gets sentenced and interred for what he was at the time.

If it were to happen to any of the females in my greater family, I would be after blood and the discussions about rights, gender etc would go right over my head.

I am going to expand it by saying so much of all this bull is a fashion. There was a time not so long ago that many young women were saying they were Lesbian. They weren't. It was a fashion. I personally know of three young who said they might be Lesbian because they fancied their friend. And now they are happily back gnoshing on some lads pork sword.

See, I'm getting crude now because all this siht is driving me mad. I'm fed up with people sympathising with criminals and not the victims. I'm fed up with a lad that I know knocking down and killing two people while over the limit, lying to the Police and when caught out getting two and a half years only. In fact he killed three because the son of the couple took his own life shortly after.

I'm fed up with them saying Paedophiles have been rehabilitated. I'm fed up that Sacoolas can walk free. I'm fed up that people are sympathising with Begum and want her repatriated. I'm fed up Zahawi can carry on as an MP.

I'm also fed up with people who have contributed fcuk all to this nation from birth telling us they are under privileged. As a Socialist, I can tell you that I don't have a middle class conscience. My family didn't profit from the expansion of the Empire or East India Company. I don't have guilt about the slave trade. Built we didn't build the welfare state and introduce worker rights just for others to take advantage.

Of course we have to have laws and basic rights. I was a Trade Union Secretary who fought for them. But just like the Ten Commandments, they are a guideline to how you should live your life. They must not be taken for granted or used for the wrong reason.

That wasn't my point. A dead body is a dead body. Everybody can see it's a dead body and it has to be accounted for.

A rape victim is someone who will have no visible evidence of harm; it's all down to whether they report it, and even then you need evidence.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well for me, a rapist is much like a murderer. If someone goes out with the intention of violently, maybe fatally, attacking someone and raping them, then the public must be protected and they must be punished first and foremost.

So to be honest, I couldn't give a fcuk what a rapist identifies as. If at the time he had male genitals and used them in his crime then he gets sentenced and interred for what he was at the time.

If it were to happen to any of the females in my greater family, I would be after blood and the discussions about rights, gender etc would go right over my head.

I am going to expand it by saying so much of all this bull is a fashion. There was a time not so long ago that many young women were saying they were Lesbian. They weren't. It was a fashion. I personally know of three young who said they might be Lesbian because they fancied their friend. And now they are happily back gnoshing on some lads pork sword.

See, I'm getting crude now because all this siht is driving me mad. I'm fed up with people sympathising with criminals and not the victims. I'm fed up with a lad that I know knocking down and killing two people while over the limit, lying to the Police and when caught out getting two and a half years only. In fact he killed three because the son of the couple took his own life shortly after.

I'm fed up with them saying Paedophiles have been rehabilitated. I'm fed up that Sacoolas can walk free. I'm fed up that people are sympathising with Begum and want her repatriated. I'm fed up Zahawi can carry on as an MP.

I'm also fed up with people who have contributed fcuk all to this nation from birth telling us they are under privileged. As a Socialist, I can tell you that I don't have a middle class conscience. My family didn't profit from the expansion of the Empire or East India Company. I don't have guilt about the slave trade. Built we didn't build the welfare state and introduce worker rights just for others to take advantage.

Of course we have to have laws and basic rights. I was a Trade Union Secretary who fought for them. But just like the Ten Commandments, they are a guideline to how you should live your life. They must not be taken for granted or used for the wrong reason.

Sorry, I'd had a few drinks with friends when I first read this and I'd had too many drinks to properly digest everything you were saying. I shouldn't have responded in the first place because your comment deserves some proper thought.

Sleep well.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

12 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Sorry, I'd had a few drinks with friends when I first read this and I'd had too many drinks to properly digest everything you were saying. I shouldn't have responded in the first place because your comment deserves some proper thought.

Sleep well.

I know you read the posts and respond well and obviously have the knowledge or research to debate well. I was just angry at other things and I was on a rant. I had heard such as Delilah cannot be sung officially before Welsh Rugby games because it incites men to kill women. As it has been sung before matches for such a long time, will the Welsh RFU publish figures to back up the assertion that the singing of it has been the reason in any way for men's violence toward women.

And I know it sounds silly but I was watching the ManU v Forest game and its now Player of the Match. Fair enough but there were no women playing and I am not sure that they are allowed to play in Men's football.

Just like Cornwall Council who decided at great cost to have their stationery reprinted with the Cornish language as well. Apparently only about 50 people are fluent enough. 

Just the same as everything in life, there has to be a value to actions. If that value is not worth it then why have it?

[Nuff Said 5,178]

54 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Just like Cornwall Council who decided at great cost to have their stationery reprinted with the Cornish language as well. Apparently only about 50 people are fluent enough. 

That’s a bit different. Welsh was on its last legs as a language about 60 years ago, but because of a dogged campaign and actions like including Welsh on official documents it has been very successfully revived. 

[king canary 7,680]

22 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

I do think it’s ironic that some people who are born as men seem to be the ones who think they are entitled to behave exactly as they like i.e. as a woman.

That feels like the crux of it at times.

Some of the stuff you read said about lesbians who don't want to sleep with transwomen is full on incel stuff but dressed up in a progressive cause.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

That’s a bit different. Welsh was on its last legs as a language about 60 years ago, but because of a dogged campaign and actions like including Welsh on official documents it has been very successfully revived. 

I would wager there were more who could speak Welsh than Cornish. 54% of the Cornwall population aren't Cornish.

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I would wager there were more who could speak Welsh than Cornish. 54% of the Cornwall population aren't Cornish.

Didn't Cornish actually 'die' as spoken language by natives two or three hundred years ago? It sort of lingered on only as an academic study/hobby and a bit of local  pride  by interested individuals?

Edited February 2, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Didn't Cornish actually 'die' as spoken language by natives two or three hundred years ago? It sort of lingered on only as an academic study/hobby and a bit of local  pride  by interested individuals?

Apparently its near extinction. The very purest form of Cornish language died in the late 1800s. I can't remember the chaps name but it died when he did. And of course there are so many new invented words since then which are in their English form. There is no modern Cornish for mobile phone for example.

[TheGunnShow 6,023]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Apparently its near extinction. The very purest form of Cornish language died in the late 1800s. I can't remember the chaps name but it died when he did. And of course there are so many new invented words since then which are in their English form. There is no modern Cornish for mobile phone for example.

I'm fairly sure Icelandic invented a word for telephone or mobile phone - there's actually a committee dedicated to drawing up etymologically sound/pure (use what word you like) and new words in Icelandic so that their language doesn't get too many words from other languages.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

29 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'm fairly sure Icelandic invented a word for telephone or mobile phone - there's actually a committee dedicated to drawing up etymologically sound/pure (use what word you like) and new words in Icelandic so that their language doesn't get too many words from other languages.

Cornish relies on "me ansom" or "moy luverrr" as a substitute.

[Nuff Said 5,178]

44 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'm fairly sure Icelandic invented a word for telephone or mobile phone - there's actually a committee dedicated to drawing up etymologically sound/pure (use what word you like) and new words in Icelandic so that their language doesn't get too many words from other languages.

French is similar. There is the Acadamie Francaise who do their best to weed out words like “le weekend” and replace them with a “pure” French alternative.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

4 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

French is similar. There is the Acadamie Francaise who do their best to weed out words like “le weekend” and replace them with a “pure” French alternative.

Do you know the French for walkie talkie? It's talkie walkie. Big win for the academie on that one. 🙂

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,198]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'm fairly sure Icelandic invented a word for telephone or mobile phone - there's actually a committee dedicated to drawing up etymologically sound/pure (use what word you like) and new words in Icelandic so that their language doesn't get too many words from other languages.

Phone = sími (nominative)

Mobile phone = farsími (nominative)

Yes, they make up words for modern purposes, then the locals keep throwing english words  and slang into Icelandic conversations 😄

Jæja

[Nuff Said 5,178]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Do you know the French for walkie talkie? It's talkie walkie. Big win for the academie on that one. 🙂

Yeah, I didn’t say they were successful!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

6 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Yeah, I didn’t say they were successful!

Never really understood why they're so precious about it when English is a large part just badly pronounced French!

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

I recall reading somewhere that English adds thousands (it steals them from other languages if useful) words a year to its lexicon whereas by comparison French only handfulls.

By this rate French will just be subset of Engiish in a few years.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,825]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64501436

 

But but Nicola didn't you and your party just celebrate passing a system that says that if you say you are trans then you are trans no ifs no buts? That if you are say you are a women then you are 100 percent legally a women? 

 

So which one is it? Beacause I'm pretty sure that the SNP have recently placed not accepting a trans persons self identification into their hate crime laws.

Dear oh dear we are in a sticky mess in Scotland.

Edited February 3, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64501436

 

But but Nicola didn't you and your party just celebrate passing a system that says that if you say you are trans then you are trans no ifs no buts? That if you are say you are a women then you are 100 percent legally a women? 

 

So which one is it? Beacause I'm pretty sure that the SNP have recently placed not accepting a trans persons self identification into their hate crime laws.

Dear oh dear we are in a sticky mess in Scotland.

That report correctly says that the assessment process is robust enough to ensure that a rapist is dealt with in the right way and other prisoners were not at risk.

If this rapist tried to use a loophole in the law then the assessment process meant that the loophole didn't work.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

15 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Do you know the French for walkie talkie? It's talkie walkie. Big win for the academie on that one. 🙂

Redruth is where I live. Red=River and Ruth=Red.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

34 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

That report correctly says that the assessment process is robust enough to ensure that a rapist is dealt with in the right way and other prisoners were not at risk.

If this rapist tried to use a loophole in the law then the assessment process meant that the loophole didn't work.

 

One of the problems with no ifs and buts is women's refuges. Would anyone in their right mind suggest that women would feel safe if there was a man identifying as a woman alongside them?

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

One of the problems with no ifs and buts is women's refuges. Would anyone in their right mind suggest that women would feel safe if there was a man identifying as a woman alongside them?

The prisoner was kept in strict isolation. No other prisoners were in danger.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

The prisoner was kept in strict isolation. No other prisoners were in danger.

I wasn't just referring to that specific case. I was talking about a no if and buts policy. Personally I would have sent the person in question to sweep for mines walking backwards in Ukraine.

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I wasn't just referring to that specific case. I was talking about a no if and buts policy. Personally I would have sent the person in question to sweep for mines walking backwards in Ukraine.

The case shows that if you have the appropriate safeguards in place the no ifs and buts policy is not the problem.

[king canary 7,680]

3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

The case shows that if you have the appropriate safeguards in place the no ifs and buts policy is not the problem.

Again, do you have any interest in this bridge I'm selling...

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Again, do you have any interest in this bridge I'm selling...

You have to work out what you are objecting to because the safety of prisoners isn't the problem.

Building bridges would be a good idea.

[king canary 7,680]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

You have to work out what you are objecting to because the safety of prisoners isn't the problem.

Building bridges would be a good idea.

You seem very confident in the system that largely seems to be governed by public outcry.

If the Tories had been in charge of this we'd be talking screaming u-turns. 

It isn't just this case too- it is also the case of the other violent prisoner who had their transfer rubber stamped before public outcry caused a rethink.

And as this latest quote from Sturgeon shows the 'trans women are women, no ifs no buts' stance suddenly softens when it suits. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

13 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

You have to work out what you are objecting to because the safety of prisoners isn't the problem.

Building bridges would be a good idea.

We're all very clear what we're objecting to: These laws are a license for men to identify themselves legally and in bad faith as women as a means to prey on women; it's a sexual predator's charter.