TheGunnShow 6,899 Posted November 28, 2022 England vs. Wales is going to be funny. Two teams with central midfield issues. That said, Wales look really weak there to the extent a poor Iran side had them in trouble on every counter-attack. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,253 Posted November 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: No. He can't get into the Brighton team (who are 7th and playing well) because his competition are currently playing at the World cup: McAllister with Argentina and a player called Caisedo who has been linked with Real Madrid and Liverpool. You don't think the likes of Phillips and Rice have limitations? Rice will most probably play in defence when he eventually moves to Chelsea. Gilmour didn't have the best time at Norwich (even though, numbers wise, he outshone McLean and Normann), we all know this. But the way that some people talk about him it's like he's the reincarnation of Carlton Palmer (if he was dead. Which he isn't.) Rice is a much better midfielder than Gilmour too. Like @king canary says, Gilmour's weaknesses means he doesn't get ahead of those in the England set up who have limitations. None of their weaknesses are as catastrophic in terms of tactical structure and midfield stability than Gilmours lack of pretty much everything other than being decent at passing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,356 Posted November 28, 2022 1 minute ago, TheDarkKnight said: I do get it. "Everyone was building Gilmour up to be the new Zidane and that little Norwich are lucky to have him", he "failed" and it stuck in peoples craw a wee bit. So you stick it to him and laugh and laugh. But as The Smith's said, the joke isn't funny anymore. The only joke here is the assertion that "Gilmour would walk into an England midfield" that is "3 injuries away from starting Shaun Longstaff". It's laughable. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mengo 829 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 90 mins . Arsenal 1 brighton 3. Billy Gilmour looks to kick on after Brighton breakthrough vs Arsenal 10th November. Billy Gilmour aiming to kick on after Brighton breakthrough against Arsenal . SCOTLAND midfielder Billy Gilmour insists he is loving life at Brighton despite his lack of game time. After making the move from Chelsea to the Seagulls on transfer deadline day, Gilmour had to wait until Wednesday evening to make his full debut as he shone in the Carabao Cup 3-1 win at Arsenal. Another complication for the 21-year-old at Brighton was the fact that manager Graham Potter left to join Chelsea within a week of Gilmour’s arrival on the south coast. In the Premier League, the former Rangers trainee has been restricted to only 13 minutes of action across four substitute outings under new boss Roberto De Zerbi. However, Gilmour, who is in the national team squad for next week’s friendly in Turkey, is hoping to kick on from his 90-minute appearance against the Gunners. He said: “I am enjoying it, I need to be patient for my opportunity. "I got an opportunity on Wednesday and played okay so I need to build on that, but I’m loving life here so far and hopefully that continues. “Of course you get frustrated sometimes but we’re all together as a team, we’re in it for the full season so we need to stick together and push and see how high we can get up. “I’m enjoying it, we play good football, possession-based but it’s all for a reason - it’s not just to keep the ball. It’s going forward and scoring goals.” Gilmour delivered an assured midfield performance against Arsenal and set up Tariq Lamptey to score the third goal at the Emirates. He added: “We dug in, went a goal down and showed character and personality to get ourselves back into the game and then to go on to win it. “I was happy to assist Tariq with the goal but I thought it was a good game with some good goals.” Edited November 28, 2022 by Mengo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 8,261 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: No. He can't get into the Brighton team (who are 7th and playing well) because his competition are currently playing at the World cup: McAllister with Argentina and a player called Caisedo who has been linked with Real Madrid and Liverpool. You don't think the likes of Phillips and Rice have limitations? Rice will most probably play in defence when he eventually moves to Chelsea. Gilmour didn't have the best time at Norwich (even though, numbers wise, he outshone McLean and Normann), we all know this. But the way that some people talk about him it's like he's the reincarnation of Carlton Palmer (if he was dead. Which he isn't.) Yeah I'm well aware of Brighton and their midfield. Now Caicedo would walk straight into the England side sure. But Gilmour isn't close to him right now. 28 minutes ago, hogesar said: Rice is a much better midfielder than Gilmour too. Like @king canary says, Gilmour's weaknesses means he doesn't get ahead of those in the England set up who have limitations. None of their weaknesses are as catastrophic in terms of tactical structure and midfield stability than Gilmours lack of pretty much everything other than being decent at passing. This says it perfectly. Gilmour's glaring weaknesses means he essentially needs the entire midfield built around him and his strengths don't justify doing that. And as @kirku says, this isn't bitterness about his failure here- it is your ludicrous insistence that he'd be walking into the midfield of a World Cup semi finalist and European Championship finalist when he can't even get off the bench for Brighton. There is a massive middle ground between 'Gilmour isn't as bad as some Norwich fans say' (something I'd probably agree with) and 'he'd walk into the England team.' Edited November 28, 2022 by king canary 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Hairy 4,132 Posted November 28, 2022 16 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said: Do you remember being beaten 0-4 at home to Hungary? How about when you went 6 games without a win leading up to the World Cup? How about the 0-0 with USA when Tyler Adams stomped all over Bellingham, Rice and Mount? Long gone are the days of Carrick and Scholes and Gascoigne and Robson. A few injuries and England could have a midfield of Longstaff and Willock. Not frightening. Still more appealing than Krankie. Come on enough is enough now, this nonsense trolling on here needs to stop. No one, not even Krankies parents can seriously think what you post about him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mengo 829 Posted November 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: Anyone would think that I was talking about the French or the Spanish midfield. 30% of the EPL is English. It only stands to reason that Southgate hasn't got a deep pool. Shaw, Maguire and Stone aren't even regulars for their clubs. I don't really have to justify my opinion here. If people think I'm wrong, fair play. Doesn't change the fact that the England midfield gotta overrun by the USA midfield. Against Wales it's going to be s total scrap. Against Wales it's going to be s total scrap. Or possibly total Crap 🤫🤣 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,253 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: Anyone would think that I was talking about the French or the Spanish midfield. Equally, anyone would think you were talking about some Champions League midfielder who's been in good form and grabbed 5 goals and 8 assists half way through this season. Instead you're talking about Billy Gilmour who can barely get minutes off the bench for a Brighton side that will likely finish midtable. A Billy Gilmour who Brighton will delightfully allow to go on loan. A Billy Gilmour who has played 13 minutes of football this season. He can't even be trusted as an option to rest their better players. A total of over 2000 Premier League minutes for Chelsea, Norwich and Brighton with a single assist to show for all that passing and awareness. Edited November 28, 2022 by hogesar 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 8,261 Posted November 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: It's nuanced, though. I'm actually talking about the type of midfielder that Gilmour is. Is he prime Pirlo? No. But a poundland Pirlo could probably make a difference to the England midfield. But you can quite happily build a team and win games without a player of that type. England showed that in the Euro's or in the previous World Cup, Arsenal right now top the league with a pivot of Xhaka and Partey, neither of whom are a Pirlo type playmaker. A midfield of Rice, Bellingham and Mount is not missing Billy Gilmour and honestly if he wasn't Scottish this would never even be a suggestion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,356 Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, TheDarkKnight said: Shaw, Maguire and Stone aren't even regulars for their clubs. Shaw is first choice. Stones has only missed two league games he's been fit for. Quote I don't really have to justify my opinion here. If people think I'm wrong, fair play. Doesn't change the fact that the England midfield gotta overrun by the USA midfield. Against Wales it's going to be s total scrap. Gilmour wouldn't get into the US side either - so what's your point? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 8,261 Posted November 28, 2022 1 minute ago, TheDarkKnight said: Yeah. Of course you can win matches without that type of player, but can you win major tournaments? Looking at the Euro final: Jorginho: 117 touches. 94 passes - 95.9% pass success rate. Verratti: 133 touches. 111 passes - 94.1% pass success rate Rice: 49 touches. 25 passes - 75.8 pass success rate. Phillips: 57 touches. 30 passes - 76.9% pass success rate. That says it all. Great. None of which is an argument for Billy Gilmour. It is an argument for a better version of him that only exists in your head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,356 Posted November 28, 2022 1 minute ago, TheDarkKnight said: No. I just illustrated why England need such a player. Phillip and Rice are too much of a muchness. As I said, if you disagree, then fine. You're entitled to your opinion. 🙂 You said that Gilmour didn't have one assist for Norwich? He got 1 assist in one start for Brighton. Says it all. "Billy Gilmour got an assist in the Carabao Cup and that's the reason he'd walk into the England side" It gets funnier and funnier 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,356 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: Yeah. Of course you can win matches without that type of player, but can you win major tournaments? Looking at the Euro final: Jorginho: 117 touches. 94 passes - 95.9% pass success rate. Verratti: 133 touches. 111 passes - 94.1% pass success rate Rice: 49 touches. 25 passes - 75.8 pass success rate. Phillips: 57 touches. 30 passes - 76.9% pass success rate. That says it all. England lost on penalties because Verratti and Jorginho (who missed) had better ball retention than Rice and Phillps? Makes perfect sense. Edited November 28, 2022 by kirku 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,356 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: Oh really? Aren't the guy who said that you could play for Scotland? (40th team in the world) Mate, the condescending tone doesn't work on me. Didn't we go through this? If you want to chat and debate like a groom up, have at it. If you want to stuff like "it gets funnier and funnier", or "comedy gold", etc. Just do it via PM. Or can you only do it in front of an audience? 🙂 I didn't want to explicitly point out how incredibly thick you must be to not understand the point I was making in response to these comments: Quote Billy Gilmour would walk into the England midfield. The major thing? No one knows. He hasn't really played enough. I wouldn't trust him as an anchorman, as I don't think he's defensively good enough. Quote I'd walk into Scotland's midfield. Afterall, nobody has really seen me play enough to know what my best position is, but you probably wouldn't trust me as an anchorman as I don't think I'm defensively sound enough. Do you get it yet? And, no, no matter how many times you ask, I'm not going to PM you.. Edited November 28, 2022 by kirku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 8,261 Posted November 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: What is your point? That Gilmour isn't eligible for play for England? He was before he played a competitive match for Scotland. 🙂 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-star-billy-gilmour-gives-21642069.amp This is painful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,356 Posted November 28, 2022 1 minute ago, king canary said: This is painful. I just can't 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Petriix 3,029 Posted November 28, 2022 If you want a clear understanding of Billy Gilmour as a complete midfielder, all you have to do is look at the highlights from all of Norwich's games in which he played last season. He features in most of the goals: you can see him jogging back into the shot just as the ball is slammed into the Norwich goal. I don't think they keep reliable stats for positional errors or failing to track your man so claiming that your son wee Billy was statistically our best midfielder is a bit like saying Tim Krul was our best striker because all his shots were on target. Ultimately there's a reason why he isn't getting a game for Brighton. It's possible that he will develop the missing bits of his game, but it's totally absurd to claim that he already has an all round game appropriate to the Premier League. He probably should have gone on loan in League 1 last season and then the Championship this time, otherwise I'm not sure how he'll get the minutes required to actually learn. Oh, an one thing Billy really didn't do for Norwich was 'show for the ball'. And he certainly never turned anyone. He did hit some nice passes into threatening areas, but he didn't really understand Pukki's movement or how to thread a through-ball for him to run on to. It was a monumental mistake for Norwich to think that Gilmour would be up to the required standard. Farke got it reasonably quickly and dropped him. Sadly Dean Smith didn't - like with so many other facets of his tenure - so we were treated to a whole season of watching his shortcomings first hand. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthCarolinaYellow 199 Posted November 28, 2022 Logging in AGAIN to just laugh my **** off at this. I never would have expected such insanity on page one even with Gilmour being discussed and TDK being involved. Carry on, friends. If anything ... let's push this to new heights? We've sort of dropped the "Gilmour is really not that far off from Pirlo" discussion which I think is a potential goldmine of comedy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Hairy 4,132 Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, kirku said: "Billy Gilmour got an assist in the Carabao Cup and that's the reason he'd walk into the England side" It gets funnier and funnier Seriously, why is this idiot still posting on here?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Hairy 4,132 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, kirku said: I didn't want to explicitly point out how incredibly thick you must be to not understand the point I was making in response to these comments: Do you get it yet? And, no, no matter how many times you ask, I'm not going to PM you.. Why does he want you to PM him?? Bit weird 🤷 Edited November 28, 2022 by Ken Hairy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,412 Posted November 28, 2022 Is Billy just another young McLean, decent enough for championship or Scottish Premiership but just not good enough for the EPL? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,356 Posted November 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, NorthCarolinaYellow said: Logging in AGAIN to just laugh my **** off at this. I never would have expected such insanity on page one even with Gilmour being discussed and TDK being involved. Carry on, friends. If anything ... let's push this to new heights? We've sort of dropped the "Gilmour is really not that far off from Pirlo" discussion which I think is a potential goldmine of comedy. I'm not aware of TDK's history but sounds like he only comes on here to defend his son? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Wynless Jones 161 Posted November 28, 2022 Jesus Christ, I haven't posted on here for about 2 years, although been reading but nothing has forced me out of hiding to post like this utter utter garbage being spoken by the Dark Knight. I actually genuinely can't believe what I'm reading, so I just wanted to pop on to add to the list of people calling you a deluded fool. See you all in another couple of years. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Hairy 4,132 Posted November 28, 2022 Graeme Souness being used as evidence 😂😂😂😂, have you not heard the tripe he bangs on about on TalkSport every Monday. Continually gets put back in his box by Simon Jordan. Part of me wants to block this idiot, even though I've never blocked anyone, but I just can't, his posts are like a car crash that you can't look away from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,555 Posted November 28, 2022 3 hours ago, hogesar said: Equally, anyone would think you were talking about some Champions League midfielder who's been in good form and grabbed 5 goals and 8 assists half way through this season. Instead you're talking about Billy Gilmour who can barely get minutes off the bench for a Brighton side that will likely finish midtable. A Billy Gilmour who Brighton will delightfully allow to go on loan. A Billy Gilmour who has played 13 minutes of football this season. He can't even be trusted as an option to rest their better players. A total of over 2000 Premier League minutes for Chelsea, Norwich and Brighton with a single assist to show for all that passing and awareness. And to think Mo Leitner got stick, Wee Bully as yet has shown nothing like what Mo had, sure he wore his shorts in a ridiculous fashion but he could set the tone and pick a pass. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 6,899 Posted November 28, 2022 3 hours ago, king canary said: But you can quite happily build a team and win games without a player of that type. England showed that in the Euro's or in the previous World Cup, Arsenal right now top the league with a pivot of Xhaka and Partey, neither of whom are a Pirlo type playmaker. A midfield of Rice, Bellingham and Mount is not missing Billy Gilmour and honestly if he wasn't Scottish this would never even be a suggestion. Dunno, wasn't Xhaka essentially supposed to be a fairly deep-lying playmaker, albeit one that's not - quite - as out-and-out creative and a bit more combative than the average DLP? Partey certainly isn't, he gets the ball and gives it to those who are better pure ball-players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,555 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: Graeme Souness: "England needs someone like him (Gilmour) desperately" But what does Graeme Souness (And Patrick Vieira) know about midfielders. When there's so many people with FIFA coaching badges on here... Souness defended Ronaldo's interview with Puss Morgan. Souness is an idiot.....he's also a jock. Tartan specs? PS I'm pretty sure they'd be UEFA coaching badges Edited November 28, 2022 by wcorkcanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,253 Posted November 28, 2022 41 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: Dude, even Gary Neville said "it's a sobering experience for England as McGinn, Gilmour and McGregor were better on the ball than the England midfield". 2:52: "Gilmour always made himself available. England don't have that player" Want to ridicule Gary Neville, too? I know that you've English and you're defensive. But come on. Three fully qualified coaches are echoing what I'm saying. Don't really have to justify my opinion, but I just have. I just posting a clip of an EPL manager and two previous managers agreeing with my point. 😄 Checkmate. Most of your quotes come from one game where Gilmour played well and England were diabolical. It's not a norm or an accurate marker. Ryan Jarvis had a couple of good Prem appearances but that didn't make him England quality. Pundits are essentially paid to over hype. He is a nothing player and his career will generally prove that if it hasn't already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites