Deja Vu - Hughton Debacle

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

In Hughton's 2nd season it was apparent pretty early on that he was going backwards not forwards, and that without Grant Holt his style of play was just not working.  Also everyone saw as soon as the fixtures came out that our last 5 were as tough as you could ever expect and more than a point or two from the last 5 games would be optimistic, so realistically we needed to be comfortably safe before the last 5 games to have any real chance.

 

By Christmas with the season half gone there were few who still supported Hughton and the rare games we won were generally down to some clear good fortune.  It was painful stuff and December was the obvious time to replace the manager, if not sooner, but the Board did nothing.

 

After New Year results and performances got worse, with 6 games to go we were on 32 points which was clearly not enough and with the final run of fixtures we had, the home game against WBA was realistically the last chance.  A home defeat was predictable and with the final five games against Fulham, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal, chances to get more points would be very limited.

 

The Board then made the decision to sack Hughton and ask Adams to achieve the impossible and keep us up over those 5 games, predictably we only got one more point and were relegated by 3 points (plus massive goal difference) behind WBA.  

 

A clear case of falling between two stools, Hughton should have been sacked before Christmas, having stuck with him until the last 5 games there was no point making the change that late.

 

With Smith we're in the same situation exactly. It's clearly not working and we are not seeing progress.  I think the players and DS are all expecting he'll be sacked, it's just a matter of time, which means any authority he has over the group of players has already gone.  A new coach needs time to get things going, it's daft to delay when the squad are now together with time to work together and improve things, exactly the time to bring in someone new.

 

It would be worth sacking Smith now even if no one new is lined up, let his deputy take the training while they are away and the players will know there is someone new coming in and that they need to work towards that, if it takes a few weeks at least the new guy won't inherit a squad that have been undermined by working with a coach over the break that they clearly don't have faith in.

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

TL;DR version: Smith out!

[king canary 7,609]

3 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

In Hughton's 2nd season it was apparent pretty early on that he was going backwards not forwards, and that without Grant Holt his style of play was just not working.  Also everyone saw as soon as the fixtures came out that our last 5 were as tough as you could ever expect and more than a point or two from the last 5 games would be optimistic, so realistically we needed to be comfortably safe before the last 5 games to have any real chance.

 

By Christmas with the season half gone there were few who still supported Hughton and the rare games we won were generally down to some clear good fortune.  It was painful stuff and December was the obvious time to replace the manager, if not sooner, but the Board did nothing.

 

After New Year results and performances got worse, with 6 games to go we were on 32 points which was clearly not enough and with the final run of fixtures we had, the home game against WBA was realistically the last chance.  A home defeat was predictable and with the final five games against Fulham, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal, chances to get more points would be very limited.

 

The Board then made the decision to sack Hughton and ask Adams to achieve the impossible and keep us up over those 5 games, predictably we only got one more point and were relegated by 3 points (plus massive goal difference) behind WBA.  

 

A clear case of falling between two stools, Hughton should have been sacked before Christmas, having stuck with him until the last 5 games there was no point making the change that late.

 

With Smith we're in the same situation exactly. It's clearly not working and we are not seeing progress.  I think the players and DS are all expecting he'll be sacked, it's just a matter of time, which means any authority he has over the group of players has already gone.  A new coach needs time to get things going, it's daft to delay when the squad are now together with time to work together and improve things, exactly the time to bring in someone new.

 

It would be worth sacking Smith now even if no one new is lined up, let his deputy take the training while they are away and the players will know there is someone new coming in and that they need to work towards that, if it takes a few weeks at least the new guy won't inherit a squad that have been undermined by working with a coach over the break that they clearly don't have faith in.

We're not quite there yet in my view- we're 21 games into the season, not 30, I don't think if Smith gets another 7 or 8 games the position would be impossible for another manager to turn around, especially as the division is hyper congested at this point. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

We're not quite there yet in my view- we're 21 games into the season, not 30, I don't think if Smith gets another 7 or 8 games the position would be impossible for another manager to turn around, especially as the division is hyper congested at this point. 

While I don't disagree particularly with your post, what we'd need if we did leave it that late is a winning Run akin to that which wee Alex achieved, plus the never in doubt Wembley Victory . Big ask . I'd take it though. 

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

We're not quite there yet in my view- we're 21 games into the season, not 30, I don't think if Smith gets another 7 or 8 games the position would be impossible for another manager to turn around, especially as the division is hyper congested at this point. 

Not impossible, I agree.  The problem is we're going in the wrong direction.  I can't see any reason to think Smith will turn it around.

 

If we don't get someone new in place during the WC break then they'll be leaving Smith in place for another month or two at the minimum.  Which means a new manager has very little time to turn it around and the playoffs will probably be the best we can aim for.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

2 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

While I don't disagree particularly with your post, what we'd need if we did leave it that late is a winning Run akin to that which wee Alex achieved, plus the never in doubt Wembley Victory . Big ask . I'd take it though. 

Yes the playoff final was much more enjoyable at 2-0 up with 20 mins to go when we looked in complete control.  The previous time, when we took the lead, I never expected us to keep it.

[repman 635]

If anything this season reminds me of the next season with Adams. We started off very well but gradually started to drift, had a top squad for the level that everyone agreed was underperforming and it never felt like we were going to catch fire with him in charge.

[Coneys Knee 959]

Oh for the days when we put up a “fight” in the premier league and was in the fight til the end, going down by only 3 points!

Heady days indeed.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I saw Hughton's first home game after the Fulham beating and thought from the start we looked more set up not to lose. He had just been caned. Had dropped crowd favourite Wes. He was happy with a 1-1 draw at home to QPR. Johnny Howson looked a better player Saturday than he did in that QPR game.

A wonderful December and those two final games gave us hope that he might have changed. But it didn't the next season and we looked so apologetic every time we walked on the pitch.

This was the beginning of the era of attacking football and I just don't think Chris had it in him to take a punt.

[dylanisabaddog 4,931]

Anyone who has watched the last 2 home games must surely have realised that the players don't really look like they care and neither does Smith. He makes some quite baffling team selections. I'm always surprised when I look at the team sheet. 

I don't think he really wants to be here and we should grasp the opportunity of the next 4 weeks and act now. I know he has a very limited CV but I quite like the look of Gary O'Neil. Bournemouth look very up for it at the moment and play some good football. 

I'm totally against Scott Parker but I really don't know why other than he spends a small fortune on silly looking clothes😂

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

42 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I saw Hughton's first home game after the Fulham beating and thought from the start we looked more set up not to lose. He had just been caned. Had dropped crowd favourite Wes. He was happy with a 1-1 draw at home to QPR. Johnny Howson looked a better player Saturday than he did in that QPR game.

A wonderful December and those two final games gave us hope that he might have changed. But it didn't the next season and we looked so apologetic every time we walked on the pitch.

This was the beginning of the era of attacking football and I just don't think Chris had it in him to take a punt.

Very true, we were set up not to lose.

If we went 1-0 down, nothing changed, he'd hope to nick a goal.

If we went 2-0 down, nothing changed, he'd hope to nick a goal and then you are only one goal behind and might nick another.....

[Tumbleweed 106]

The tinkering with the line-up certainly can't help much. It is just as I said on my leaving it too late thread that that is the track record of this Board. They will hope that something magically happens. From memory we didn't even get much of a new manager bounce but we do look to be underperforming despite having what on paper looks like a really good squad. If one or two were not playing well one would think it's a player issue but to see this across the board suggests it is much wider problem. I just don't think DS has been really in it from the start, and my view is that both NCFC and he did a rushed deal on the rebound from Farke and Villa respectively. A Board with guts would just crack on, football is a cutthroat results driven business and the money spent on compensation would easily be replaced by promotion or one strategic player sale. Or maybe Webber could say nice things about the warm climate in Qatar for a few sponsored quid.......

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

If we'd have had anything like the number of goals per game in the Hughton era, as we do these days, we'd have been in very good shape.

That's another way of saying this is nothing like the Hughton era...

Edited November 15, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[The Real Buh 3,439]

So we’ve had at least 2 or 3 “should have sacked him” watershed moments. The longer they leave it the bigger the backlash will be. If that Boro goal had gone in on the 80ty minute rather than the 93rd the backlash from the fans would have been much bigger.

[Ulfotto 635]

I think these parallels are all wrong this season is almost a carbon copy of the Alex Neil relegation season.

- End of Era

- off field issues

- under performing players

- fan unrest

 

[Naturalcynic 631]

17 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

Oh for the days when we put up a “fight” in the premier league and was in the fight til the end, going down by only 3 points!

Heady days indeed.

Oh for the days when we were a semi-established top-flight club, knowing we stood a chance against anyone and having some good top half finishes. OK, the Prem might have made it harder but many other clubs have achieved it since 1992.  Hopefully with the new American influence the Board will be less willing to accept mediocrity.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

If we'd have had anything like the number of goals per game in the Hughton era, as we do these days, we'd have been in very good shape.

That's another way of saying this is nothing like the Hughton era...

So in the season under Hughton when we were relegated, which is the one I'm drawing the comparison with, in 38 games we scored 28 and conceded 62.  That was the lowest goals scored of any team that season.  Which anyone who went to any of those games would have no difficulty in believing.