Todd

[kirku 1,334]

33 minutes ago, Indy said:

I think we need to put the injury into this equation, Hayden WAS significantly better, but we have to wait and see if he can gain full fitness, gain match sharpness and find his best form, if not then Sorensen looks as good a bet this season!

Really confused as to what we've got to base this on.

Hayden was universally liked by Newcastle fans and has well over 100 games at PL level while Sorenson has never really seen a run of games for us except when he was drafted in as an emergency LB.

If Sorenson were the answer, then he'd have had no trouble getting into our (absolutely abysmal for the level) central midfield last season - but he didn't, he started just 6 games and played 3 times at CB.

It's like Cody McDonald all over again...

Edited July 14, 2022 by kirku

[Indy 3,310]

8 minutes ago, kirku said:

Really confused as to what we've got to base this on.

Hayden was universally liked by Newcastle fans and has well over 100 games at PL level while Sorenson has never really seen a run of games for us except when he was drafted in as an emergency LB.

If Sorenson were the answer, then he'd have had no trouble getting into our (absolutely abysmal for the level) central midfield last season - but he didn't, he started just 6 games and played 3 times at CB.

It's like Cody McDonald all over again...

Based on the fact that Hayden hasn’t played since beginning of December and is injured, like I said he might not even be fully fit to play at any previous level until December this year! As I said we haven’t bought in a fully fit and firing Hayden but an injured recovering player who might not get back to the his previous level! Time will tell. As for Sorensen he was certainly one of the best players we have on the ball, and in this league we need to control the ball.

[Greavsy 2,419]

4 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Cantwell's head wasn't completely clear due to a family issue as well.

whilst im not suggesting this is not correct - as I am not ITK, may I ask where this info is from? 

Lots of rumours and denials about various things done the rounds.. 

[Surfer 1,547]

20 minutes ago, Indy said:

Based on the fact that Hayden hasn’t played since beginning of December and is injured, like I said he might not even be fully fit to play at any previous level until December this year! As I said we haven’t bought in a fully fit and firing Hayden but an injured recovering player who might not get back to the his previous level! Time will tell. As for Sorensen he was certainly one of the best players we have on the ball, and in this league we need to control the ball.

So a potential win - win. Sorensen starts the season, gets game time and Hayden replaces him when fit, Sorenson now backup but with match experience. Or, Sorensen plays out if his skin and Hayden is backup. Either scenario fine.

 

[Indy 3,310]

3 minutes ago, Surfer said:

So a potential win - win. Sorensen starts the season, gets game time and Hayden replaces him when fit, Sorenson now backup but with match experience. Or, Sorensen plays out if his skin and Hayden is backup. Either scenario fine.

 

Pretty much……as long as the knee injury holds up. I’m very pleased with getting Hayden in, he’s a step up in quality, but unfortunately injured. If he gets back certainly could be a quality midfield three, Hayden, Sorensen, Sara with a front three of Rashica, Pukki, Cantwell, or Sargent, Idah, Tzolis, then Dowell, Hernandez & Rowe as alternatives…….it’s key to get a fit established solid base to allow the front players the focus on scoring.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

16 hours ago, horsefly said:

Oh dear! You were the one who made homophobic comments about Todd Cantwell (which the moderator had to remove) and then admitted publicly that you and your husband were having great fun trolling me over several posts. Best not to push this sanctimonious tosh when you have made such a public declaration that you are a troll.

Unblocked (temporarily) you to see what your latest retort was (couldn’t resist!) and knew you’d make this claim. Turns out the moderators tend to remove any post that’s reported to them by the person that wants it removed - you may want to check back to see one of yours that went missing 😂. What this shows is that your argument ‘but the Mods removed it so it must’ve been…’ holds no water. Strange that the post I wrote was the one I’d repeatedly asked you to explain how it was homophobic and you NEVER did. So when YOU trolled me by calling me ‘clearly homophobic’ and I asked you to back up your claim (and you couldn’t) I engaged in a bit of stringing along myself. I don’t regret it and I see that you still struggle to have a difference of opinion without resorting to being insulting to the person you disagree with. I’d feel sorry for you if you weren’t so relentlessly unpleasant. Anyway, back to the ‘ignoring’ status. 
 

[shefcanary 2,443]

21 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

whilst im not suggesting this is not correct - as I am not ITK, may I ask where this info is from? 

Lots of rumours and denials about various things done the rounds.. 

Okay I'm guilty as charged for reproducing information previously discussed on this forum and treating it as fact!

[horsefly 4,310]

19 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Unblocked (temporarily) you to see what your latest retort was (couldn’t resist!) and knew you’d make this claim. Turns out the moderators tend to remove any post that’s reported to them by the person that wants it removed - you may want to check back to see one of yours that went missing 😂. What this shows is that your argument ‘but the Mods removed it so it must’ve been…’ holds no water. Strange that the post I wrote was the one I’d repeatedly asked you to explain how it was homophobic and you NEVER did. So when YOU trolled me by calling me ‘clearly homophobic’ and I asked you to back up your claim (and you couldn’t) I engaged in a bit of stringing along myself. I don’t regret it and I see that you still struggle to have a difference of opinion without resorting to being insulting to the person you disagree with. I’d feel sorry for you if you weren’t so relentlessly unpleasant. Anyway, back to the ‘ignoring’ status. 
 

My posts went missing because they quoted your homophobic vitriol you buffoon. And again you admit you were trolling to try to provoke a dispute, as opposed to the sanctimonious crap you've been trying to delude people with here. As ever you can't cash out your cheques. Your abuse of Todd displayed you to be the unpleasant troll you most certainly are. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by horsefly

[Greavsy 2,419]

4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Okay I'm guilty as charged for reproducing information previously discussed on this forum and treating it as fact!

As much as I admire your honest reply I'm gutted to not get the bottom of the situation and possibly put have been able to put it bed. 

Damn these forums. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

20 minutes ago, horsefly said:

My posts went missing because they quoted your homophobic vitriol you buffoon. And again you admit you were trolling to try to provoke a dispute, as opposed to the sanctimonious crap you've been trying to delude people with here. As ever you can't cash out your cheques. Your abuse of Todd displayed you to be the unpleasant troll you most certainly are. 

Of course they did, silly me! It’s so convenient for your argument too. Now isn’t that a handy coincidence😂. Perhaps though consider two separate posters finding you to be abusive and look inwardly at why that is. Or maybe just do something that brings you more peace for a bit, probably better for your blood pressure. 

P.S. Todd is rubbish 😉

[Google Bot 3,298]

10 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

As much as I admire your honest reply I'm gutted to not get the bottom of the situation and possibly put have been able to put it bed. 

The Athletic (Bailey) reported that he was out of training and missing from Everton match due to Family Issues, re-iterated in an article here:

https://theathletic.com/3103531/2022/02/01/how-norwich-and-todd-cantwell-fell-out-of-love/

If you're not a subscriber:

"Family issues had led to Cantwell missing training and the 2-0 defeat at Everton but that was three games after he was dropped to the bench for Norwich’s trip to Arsenal after a low key start to the season.

When Cantwell took to the pitch before the warm-ups, no amount of covering his mouth was hiding his annoyance as he spoke to Max Aarons.  It was from that point on that Farke turned his trust elsewhere and Cantwell rarely completed a full week of training, which for Farke was a prerequisite to earning selection to his matchday squads."

[horsefly 4,310]

5 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Of course they did, silly me! It’s so convenient for your argument too. Now isn’t that a handy coincidence😂. Perhaps though consider two separate posters finding you to be abusive and look inwardly at why that is. Or maybe just do something that brings you more peace for a bit, probably better for your blood pressure. 

P.S. Todd is rubbish 😉

Oh dear! There is little sadder on a social forum than someone loudly broadcasting to everyone that he is blocking someone on principle, only to unblock them to have an abusive rant, claim he's blocking again, only to unblock yet again to have another little rant. Yet again not one single attempt to explain why my response to G's post was supposed to be abusive, here it is again in full:

"What is your evidence for this? How many games have you seen Hayden play? The evidence for Hayden comes from Newcastle fans who seem to have universally rated him. Where is your evidence for the claim that " Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it"? "

Please point out the abusive words or phrases. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

14 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Oh dear! There is little sadder on a social forum than someone loudly broadcasting to everyone that he is blocking someone on principle, only to unblock them to have an abusive rant, claim he's blocking again, only to unblock yet again to have another little rant. Yet again not one single attempt to explain why my response to G's post was supposed to be abusive, here it is again in full:

"What is your evidence for this? How many games have you seen Hayden play? The evidence for Hayden comes from Newcastle fans who seem to have universally rated him. Where is your evidence for the claim that " Lungi is probably twice the player Hayden is on the ball and not significantly worse without it"? "

Please point out the abusive words or phrases. 

Sorry, not abusive. Just aggressive

not sure anyone posting on any forum holds much street cred. Arguing over who is sadder is really like arguing over whose **** smells worse. The difference is I can acknowledge that, you like to try and claim some kind of higher ground. But please do unfollow me, as I will now stop biting and do the same. Then we can live in forum peace away from each other (unless someone quotes us). 

[horsefly 4,310]

17 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Sorry, not abusive. Just aggressive

not sure anyone posting on any forum holds much street cred. Arguing over who is sadder is really like arguing over whose **** smells worse. The difference is I can acknowledge that, you like to try and claim some kind of higher ground. But please do unfollow me, as I will now stop biting and do the same. Then we can live in forum peace away from each other (unless someone quotes us). 

Why on earth would I follow you? No need to unfollow. You know full well that I didn't say anything abusive in my response to G's post which is why you haven't attempted to support that lie. You merely thought you could exploit his sense of persecution to try and get a free dig at me. Not a good look is it! If you continue such behaviour I will respond as I have a right to do, stop doing it and I won't need to.

Edited July 14, 2022 by horsefly

[kirku 1,334]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Pretty much……as long as the knee injury holds up. I’m very pleased with getting Hayden in, he’s a step up in quality, but unfortunately injured. If he gets back certainly could be a quality midfield three, Hayden, Sorensen, Sara with a front three of Rashica, Pukki, Cantwell, or Sargent, Idah, Tzolis, then Dowell, Hernandez & Rowe as alternatives…….it’s key to get a fit established solid base to allow the front players the focus on scoring.

As for Sorensen he was certainly one of the best players we have on the ball, and in this league we need to control the ball.

Seems quite unlikely to me that we'll play with two CDMs in the Champ - Sorenson hasn't shown anything to suggest he'd be useful as a box-to-box midfielder, certainly less suited to the role than McLean and PLM

He's an extremely limited passer who just keeps things tidy, which is fine for a CDM or when we're not looking to dominate possession, but he's very very far away from being "certainly one of the best players we have on the ball". 

Edited July 14, 2022 by kirku

[Google Bot 3,298]

21 minutes ago, kirku said:

He's an extremely limited passer who just keeps things tidy, which is fine for a CDM or when we're not looking to dominate possession

Ahem..

 

[Indy 3,310]

28 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Ahem..

 

I wouldn’t bother it’s obvious he’s got a chip about Sorensen!

Edited July 14, 2022 by Indy
Change

[shefcanary 2,443]

2 hours ago, Greavsy said:

As much as I admire your honest reply I'm gutted to not get the bottom of the situation and possibly put have been able to put it bed. 

Damn these forums. 

I remember someone invited people to dm them to get the full story. I didn't want to intrude on something personal (honest) so didn't take up the offer. It'll all come out eventually. 

On Sorenson i agree he is not a box to box midfielder, but as a CDM he does have great vision and can provide long, raking and accurate passes that Pukki has thrived on, and will do again as will his wide colleagues.

Go Lungi, go the Iceman!

[kirku 1,334]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

Ahem..

 

And?

Josh Sargent scored an absolutely outrageous flick against Watford but you don't see many people claiming he's the second coming of Ronaldinho

[kirku 1,334]

58 minutes ago, Indy said:

I wouldn’t bother it’s obvious he’s got a chip about Sorensen!

There's a reason that neither Farke nor Smith have elected to start him regularly

[Google Bot 3,298]

44 minutes ago, kirku said:

Josh Sargent scored an absolutely outrageous flick against Watford but you don't see many people claiming he's the second coming of Ronaldinho

Sargent scored a fluke goal, therefore Sorensen is a limited passer of the ball.   Ok, got that. Thank you! 🤪

[kirku 1,334]

31 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Sargent scored a fluke goal, therefore Sorensen is a limited passer of the ball.   Ok, got that. Thank you! 🤪

It's almost as if professional footballers are capable of sporadic moments of quality that say very little about their overall ability, isn't it?

Edited July 14, 2022 by kirku

[Google Bot 3,298]

43 minutes ago, kirku said:

It's almost as if professional footballers are capable of sporadic moments of quality that say very little about their overall ability, isn't it?

Again, totally irrelevant as we're talking about a player who has shown great composure and passing ability.  Currently top 3 pass completion rate in current squad:

IOW you haven't a scooby what you're talking about.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

10 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Again, totally irrelevant as we're talking about a player who has shown great composure and passing ability.  Currently top 3 pass completion rate in current squad:

IOW you haven't a scooby what you're talking about.

Difficult to really see 6 games as an adequate sample size when compared to others. It also doesn’t suggest the type of passes being used to compile the stats, hence why Grant Hanley is higher in the table, he is hardly the Scottish Pirlo. In the games Sorensen has played for these stats where did the passes go? Alongside this, forward passes are higher risk and have a lower chance of completion, which is why players that are notably ‘better’ passers of the ball in more attacking positions have ‘worse’ % completion. Stats like this can not be used to prove a point unless the point is far simpler. 

The stats staff at the club will have all variables in terms of passing that go far beyond simply completion % and they may or may not elect to play Sorensen in a role where these stats suggest he is capable. They have played him behind others all season with ‘inferior’ stats for a reason. 

Not saying he won’t come good or be played there and shine, just that this evidence is not an argument winner 

[kirku 1,334]

10 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Again, totally irrelevant as we're talking about a player who has shown great composure and passing ability.  Currently top 3 pass completion rate in current squad:

IOW you haven't a scooby what you're talking about.

Firstly, it's not irrelevant at all because you posted a single pass from a game against Bristol as evidence of his "great passing ability". Like the data in your table, it proves nothing.

Across the league, pass completion rate is highest amongst CBs and CDMs. Why? Because they play simple passes which inevitably leads to high completion rates. The more ambitious the pass, the riskier it is, and the lower completion rate.

In our midfield, both Gilmour and Rupp had higher completion rates. Gilmour being a significantly more expensive passer.

So, in fact, your data proves the point I made:

"He's an extremely limited passer who just keeps things tidy, which is fine for a CDM or when we're not looking to dominate possession"

Thanks for that, he passes like a CB.

Perhaps that's part of the reason neither Farke nor Smith selected him often?

He's a decent enough squad player but we don't need to pretend he's a mysteriously underused combination of Gattuso and Pirlo.

Edited July 15, 2022 by kirku

[kirku 1,334]

18 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Stats like this can not be used to prove a point unless the point is far simpler. 

The stats staff at the club will have all variables in terms of passing that go far beyond simply completion % and they may or may not elect to play Sorensen in a role where these stats suggest he is capable. They have played him behind others all season with ‘inferior’ stats for a reason. 

Exactly.

Rather ironic given the ending of "you haven't got a scooby what you're talking about"

Edited July 15, 2022 by kirku

[Pugin 601]

So here's a question:

 

Is this the  most disturbing, pointless,  boring, infantile, discriminatory, prejudiced, spiteful, unsupportive, mean and revealing post ever, or have I missed a worse one?

[Google Bot 3,298]

1 hour ago, SwearyCanary said:

Difficult to really see 6 games as an adequate sample size when compared to others. It also doesn’t suggest the type of passes being used to compile the stats, hence why Grant Hanley is higher in the table, he is hardly the Scottish Pirlo. In the games Sorensen has played for these stats where did the passes go?

Well this is the problem with limited game time.  But when someone claims one of our better passers of the ball is 'limited' what else can you throw at them to objectively show they're wrong in that judgement?

Aligning Sorensen to Sargent is totally different because Josh has had a continuous run in the team.  And I'm not getting into a "He's limited", "No he's not" to and fro - as it's pointless.

If anything goes against Sorensen at defensive mid is his lack of physicality/bite.  That's why we're looking at more blood and thunder players like Normann and Hayden as a preference.

Anyone who's watched Jacob can see his number one assets are composure and passing ability, surely?!  Or have I lost the plot!? 🙂

[Google Bot 3,298]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

So, in fact, your data proves the point I made:

"He's an extremely limited passer who just keeps things tidy, which is fine for a CDM or when we're not looking to dominate possession"

That point contradicts itself.  To dominate possession you want players with a high pass completion rate. 

And to label him as "extremely limited passer", you're focusing on the role he's been asked to play, rather than the skills he posses.  Go watch footage of him in Denmark if you need to see what he's equipped with.

I suppose these are all just 'single' moments in your head? :

 

1 hour ago, kirku said:

Perhaps that's part of the reason neither Farke nor Smith selected him often?

Well we had Skipp in 20/21, and Normann/Gilmour in 21/22.  All players coming in on high wages for the season.

And despite that, Farke played him 32 times in 20/21.  Is that not 'often' enough?

Edited July 15, 2022 by Google Bot

[kirku 1,334]

46 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

That point contradicts itself.  To dominate possession you want players with a high pass completion rate. 

And to label him as "extremely limited passer", you're focusing on the role he's been asked to play, rather than the skills he posses.  Go watch footage of him in Denmark if you need to see what he's equipped with.

I suppose these are all just 'single' moments in your head? :

 

Well we had Skipp in 20/21, and Normann/Gilmour in 21/22.  All players coming in on high wages for the season.

And despite that, Farke played him 32 times in 20/21.  Is that not 'often' enough?

"That point contradicts itself.  To dominate possession you want players with a high pass completion rate."

Not if you expect to win games. Otherwise you'd just have a load of CBs and DMs making three yard sideways passes. The comment I made was in relation to having both Sorenson and Hayden as part of a midfield 3.

 

"We had Skipp in 20/21, and Normann/Gilmour in 21/22"

Only Skipp is a comparator for Sorenson, and was obviously significantly better. The other two were significantly more progressive with their passing and signalled a change in formation. Indeed, Normann's fondness for a risky pass was highlighted as a weakness of his before he signed. 

 

"Farke played him 32 times in 20.21. Is that not 'often' enough?"

Just like with your pass completion stats, this is meaningless without context. 

He played a grand total of 140 minutes at DM that season across 7 appearances (3 of those less than 5 mins and only 1 full 90). The other 26 times were as an emergency LB.

Indeed, he's played less than 500 minutes at DM in his two seasons so far.

For comparison, Hayden played over 800 minutes in midfield last year alone, and he's not played since December.

 

"All players coming in on high wages for the season."

So, every season Sorenson has been here we've signed better players than him in his natural position, yet this is offered as evidence for how good he is?

This pattern has repeated this year.