The 'Green' Excuse

[benchwarmer 625]

I see that the NHS is using eco-awareness to sell its shift away from face-to-face appointments, on the grounds that it saves journeys to the surgery. 

In another recent example Suffolk Council used 'bee-friendliness' to avoid cutting the grass.

It's a guilt-trip designed to save money, no more and no less. 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

8 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

I see that the NHS is using eco-awareness to sell its shift away from face-to-face appointments, on the grounds that it saves journeys to the surgery. 

In another recent example Suffolk Council used 'bee-friendliness' to avoid cutting the grass.

It's a guilt-trip designed to save money, no more and no less. 

You could choose to see it that way but I think it is worth pointing out a couple of points:

• Both the NHS and virtually all local councils, including I'm sure Suffolk, are desperately short of money and having to cut services heavily. This is a consequence of a Government which for over a decade has consistently reduced spending on public services but likes to throw the blame for the problems it causes onto the NHS, Councils, courts, passport offices etc etc etc.
• Saving unnecessary journeys, especially by car, and improving our highly degraded environment are actually worthwhile endeavours even if you think it makes the place look 'untidy'.

[Naturalcynic 631]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

You could choose to see it that way but I think it is worth pointing out a couple of points:

• Both the NHS and virtually all local councils, including I'm sure Suffolk, are desperately short of money and having to cut services heavily. This is a consequence of a Government which for over a decade has consistently reduced spending on public services but likes to throw the blame for the problems it causes onto the NHS, Councils, courts, passport offices etc etc etc.

Compounded by the right to request flexible working including so-called working from home.  Covid meant that huge numbers of workers were actively encouraged to work from home and that practice has continued, particularly in the public sector, with many very resistant to coming back to the office, hence the delays at the DVLA, Passport Office, Office of the Public Guardian etc etc.  The reality is that in a lot of cases working from home is less productive, less efficient and less accountable, thereby resulting in increased waiting times for stuff to be done.  I suspect many GPs are now working from home which is why all you can get these days is a remote electronic pseudo consultation and are never seen face to face which, in medicine, is likely to result in considerable numbers of misdiagnosed or undiagnosed conditions.  The only winners will be parasitical medical negligence lawyers.

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

1 hour ago, Naturalcynic said:

Compounded by the right to request flexible working including so-called working from home.  Covid meant that huge numbers of workers were actively encouraged to work from home and that practice has continued, particularly in the public sector, with many very resistant to coming back to the office, hence the delays at the DVLA, Passport Office, Office of the Public Guardian etc etc.  The reality is that in a lot of cases working from home is less productive, less efficient and less accountable, thereby resulting in increased waiting times for stuff to be done.  I suspect many GPs are now working from home which is why all you can get these days is a remote electronic pseudo consultation and are never seen face to face which, in medicine, is likely to result in considerable numbers of misdiagnosed or undiagnosed conditions.  The only winners will be parasitical medical negligence lawyers.

It's a good point about medicine. I seem to recall that one of skills to be learnt at medical school was 'taking a history' from a patient (As I'm sure you can grasp people go off track and waffle yet miss pertinent points). Then again in family practice was it 80% or 50% of visits are often 'psychological' in nature - in simple terms people needing somebody to talk too and reassurance. I'm sure a current GP can correct or expand upon this point. Of course a great deal of GP time is spent on the management of patient conditions.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[duke63 542]

3 hours ago, benchwarmer said:

I see that the NHS is using eco-awareness to sell its shift away from face-to-face appointments, on the grounds that it saves journeys to the surgery. 

In another recent example Suffolk Council used 'bee-friendliness' to avoid cutting the grass.

It's a guilt-trip designed to save money, no more and no less. 

I think its more to do with this Government trying to privatise the NHS by forcing people to find other ways of getting the healthcare they need.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Not cutting the grass isn't a bad idea at all, especially considering the issues we have with declining bee populations. I quite like that Rotherham Council spent a little on planting wildflowers on grass verges, encouraging bees to pollinate whilst improving the appearance of verges at the same time. Not to mention, they saved far more on not mowing.

Noticed in our largest park (Leverhulme Park) they're deliberately leaving some parts uncut for exactly that reason.

Rotherham's wildflower verges give roads splash of colour - BBC News

Edited June 21, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[benchwarmer 625]

55 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not cutting the grass isn't a bad idea at all, especially considering the issues we have with declining bee populations. I quite like that Rotherham Council spent a little on planting wildflowers on grass verges, encouraging bees to pollinate whilst improving the appearance of verges at the same time. Not to mention, they saved far more on not mowing.

Noticed in our largest park (Leverhulme Park) they're deliberately leaving some parts uncut for exactly that reason.

Rotherham's wildflower verges give roads splash of colour - BBC News

There is a place for it of course if it's properly thought out, as per your example, but trying to turn the centre of a city like Norwich into 'countryside' by neglecting its open spaces just doesn't work.  Castle Gardens is a prime example, it's unkempt so ordinary folk avoid it and it has become a mecca for drug dealing.

Edited June 21, 2022 by benchwarmer

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 minute ago, benchwarmer said:

There is a place for it of course, but trying to turn the centre of a city like Norwich into 'countryside' by neglecting its open spaces just doesn't work.  Castle Gardens is a prime example, it is unkempt so ordinary folk avoid it and it has become a mecca for drug dealing.

I think that's more a criticism of law enforcement than the policy of not cutting, to be honest. Although as you said to start, there is a place for it. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

We have the biggest ever spending in the public sector while services provided are either cut or reduced in quality, such as the OP points out. The reason for this is the explosive growth of jobs in the public sector, mainly at senior and middle-management levels and not at the coal face where services are delivered. 

In previous years there was no need for diversity officers and similar because we used have this thing called common sense. 

[benchwarmer 625]

2 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

 I suspect many GPs are now working from home which is why all you can get these days is a remote electronic pseudo consultation and are never seen face to face which, in medicine, is likely to result in considerable numbers of misdiagnosed or undiagnosed conditions.

It will.  Recently I had an annual blood test for a chronic condition which has been pretty stable for years.  The test was way out, seven times higher than the previous one, and I had an 'appointment' by phone.  Instead of asking me how I felt, the GP (who I've never seen) assumed that the test must be wrong.  I started to describe my symptoms but she cut me short and ordered another blood test.  It's medicine by numbers.

PS.  I know my condition fairly well so took it upon myself to increase the medication a fraction, and am starting to feel a bit better!

Edited June 21, 2022 by benchwarmer

[Herman 9,769]

8 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Compounded by the right to request flexible working including so-called working from home.  Covid meant that huge numbers of workers were actively encouraged to work from home and that practice has continued, particularly in the public sector, with many very resistant to coming back to the office, hence the delays at the DVLA, Passport Office, Office of the Public Guardian etc etc.  The reality is that in a lot of cases working from home is less productive, less efficient and less accountable, thereby resulting in increased waiting times for stuff to be done.  I suspect many GPs are now working from home which is why all you can get these days is a remote electronic pseudo consultation and are never seen face to face which, in medicine, is likely to result in considerable numbers of misdiagnosed or undiagnosed conditions.  The only winners will be parasitical medical negligence lawyers.

There is no evidence that working from home is less productive, quite the opposite. In fact lockdowns booted that myth into the heavens and a lot of companies have carried the practice on.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Mrs KG has been told she needs a replacement shoulder but unfortunately there is an 18 month waiting list.

And its still down to the reason that no Governments treat the NHS for what it is. Its not a matter of an extra 3% here and there. Its about funding it properly so it is fit for purpose. If everyone went private there would be waiting lists at BUPA.

Building a new highly unreasonable rail link is not necessary whether its HS2 or Crossrail. Making sure the NHS has enough money to work properly is.

And I am not bothered if parks and verges look untidy for a while. And if councils cannot afford to cut grass as often then so be it. It isn't life threatening.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 minutes ago, Herman said:

There is no evidence that working from home is less productive, quite the opposite. In fact lockdowns booted that myth into the heavens and a lot of companies have carried the practice on.

That is true and its easy for me to speak from home as a pensioner but I do believe people should go to work until it is definitely healthier not to. I do believe we are pack animals and I'm sure in another two or three years, people will regret not socialising at a work place. Imagine working from home but playing for the company football team.

[Naturalcynic 631]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

There is no evidence that working from home is less productive, quite the opposite. In fact lockdowns booted that myth into the heavens and a lot of companies have carried the practice on.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/08/working-from-home-is-a-failed-experiment

 

[Herman 9,769]

8 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/08/working-from-home-is-a-failed-experiment

 

Read the Microsoft article linked in that opinion piece.

[Naturalcynic 631]

Just now, Herman said:

Read the Microsoft article linked in that opinion piece.

I guess it depends what job you do, how effective your line manager is at setting targets and monitoring performance, and whether or not your role is public-facing.

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

All I know is that getting a response from the tax man - backlog was officially 6 months (and it took about 4 months and lot of calls to get that response). Clearly something has gone wrong. 

[Herman 9,769]

There is a massive shortage of staff and a massive shortage of funds. Austerity, brexit and covid.

[Naturalcynic 631]

14 hours ago, Herman said:

There is a massive shortage of staff and a massive shortage of funds. Austerity, brexit and covid.

 

Numbers working in the Civil Service have increased in recent years, yet since the pandemic the performance of various public-facing departments seems to have become attrocious.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Naturalcynic

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

On 21/06/2022 at 09:33, Naturalcynic said:

The reality is that in a lot of cases working from home is less productive, less efficient and less accountable, thereby resulting in increased waiting times for stuff to be done.  I suspect many GPs are now working from home which is why all you can get these days is a remote electronic pseudo consultation and are never seen face to face which, in medicine, is likely to result in considerable numbers of misdiagnosed or undiagnosed conditions.  The only winners will be parasitical medical negligence lawyers.

I'm afraid that categorically isn't the reality as a number of studies have shown and on the ground the reality is that many businesses have now realised (which they probably would never have accepted pre-pandemic) that working from home (for many roles) doesn't just work but that it is more productive than working in the office.

Factor in also that office accommodation is the second biggest cost for almost all professional/service type businesses after the cost of the staff themselves so it's no surprise that many businesses are proactively encouraging home or hybrid home/office working and reducing their office footprint and costs significantly- makes perfect economic and environmental sense, and something that is only going to continue to grow in the future.

As far as GP Practices are concerned I imagine they vary considerably but at our local one you have a choice of making a face to face or remote appointment. Your choice and in both cases the doctors are always in the surgery. Seems sensible and works pretty well, except we have a huge, nationwide shortage of GPs – a situation for which the government is entirely to blame.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Remember when the Tories said a minimum wage would bankrupt the country?

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Remember when the Tories said a minimum wage would bankrupt the country?

Yep, but the Tories have spent the last 2/3 decades proving that they are economic illiterates - the party of business, my a**e!!

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

8 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yep, but the Tories have spent the last 2/3 decades proving that they are economic illiterates - the party of business, my a**e!!

Party of conglomerates and financial hucksters, sure. Not sure any party is the party of small business tbh.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

27 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Party of conglomerates and financial hucksters, sure. Not sure any party is the party of small business tbh.

Fair point, I guess the Greens and Lib Dems come closest which is rather unfortunate since we are still effectively a two party state and neither the tweedle-dum party nor tweedle-dee party are fit for purpose.

[king canary 7,608]

I'm really not sure there is any evidence that GP's are working from home at all. My surgery isn't the best and often tries to push you down the route of a phone appointment but I've learned that if I insist they will generally see you face to face.

I do also understand why GP's might be keen to do a few more phone appointments- potentially flush out the timewasters who book appointments the second they have the mildest of symptoms that are the bane of most doctors lives.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

14 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm really not sure there is any evidence that GP's are working from home at all. My surgery isn't the best and often tries to push you down the route of a phone appointment but I've learned that if I insist they will generally see you face to face.

I do also understand why GP's might be keen to do a few more phone appointments- potentially flush out the timewasters who book appointments the second they have the mildest of symptoms that are the bane of most doctors lives.

Much of that is right but also there are the GPs who refer everything rather than do it in surgery. Then you are moaned at by the Consultant for wasting their time. A friend of mine went to A&E yesterday after cutting his arm with an angle grinder and said the triage nurse said half the people need not have come to hospital.

[crispeduk 282]

Office of the Public Guardian didn't need a pandemic to be self-servingly useless, but it's a neat cover story.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 21/06/2022 at 18:25, Herman said:

Read the Microsoft article linked in that opinion piece.

Microsoft has an economic interest in people working from home. It is not a neutral bystander. 

[crispeduk 282]

Some people will put in an honest day's work regardless and other's will spend their days trying not to work, wherever they are. We've all known both and the lazy ones will find a way to shovel their work on to their colleagues whether they are doing it from home or not. I'm, thankfully, long retired but still get angry when I think of the people who would better serve the common good by working from the South Pole without a winter heating allowance.

[1902 1,167]

On 21/06/2022 at 13:22, Rock The Boat said:

We have the biggest ever spending in the public sector while services provided are either cut or reduced in quality, such as the OP points out. The reason for this is the explosive growth of jobs in the public sector, mainly at senior and middle-management levels and not at the coal face where services are delivered. 

In previous years there was no need for diversity officers and similar because we used have this thing called common sense. 

No. The reason for it is that the population has changed dramatically. We have more over 65s as a proportion of our population than ever in our history. This has caused massive increases in the cost of care, health and pensions whilst shrinking the tax base.

Oh and medical care costs a fortune now because we can keep people alive on 7 different treatments but this hasn't coincided with quality of life improvements for the elderly so independently minded older people find their joints and limbs give out earlier than they want and they end up having to rely on family or the state.

Edited June 23, 2022 by 1902