Sinani

[littleyellowbirdie 2,576]

On 01/06/2022 at 17:08, Indy said:

I’m a little concerned, for months we’ve been told by some posters on here that, it wasn’t smiths fault it was these players, give him the summer to build his squad and yet every day I read when players come back, they’ll be useful in this coming season! So if we keep all these players then how’s Smith going to build his squad with the same ****e from last season?

Aren't we talking about players that haven't been involved this season?

[canarybubbles 1,937]

5 hours ago, Jersey Canary said:

I’m not saying Sorensen’s the answer I’m just saying Kenny isn’t as good as Sorensen.

I don't think it's a question of which one is better. They are very different players.

My worry about McLean, as others on here have said, is that he lacks positional discipline. Is he good enough at that free-ranging role to justify the downsides of him taking it? At PL level, clearly not. At Championship level, probably, although we have yet to see him at that level without Buendia doing a lot of the necessary defensive work that results from his roaming. One thing I imagine we can all agree on is that our midfield never became a unit last season; even by game 38, they still looked like a group of players who had never played together before. It seems harsh to blame that on McLean.

Sorensen is hard to judge IMO because a DM needs a good run of games to slot into that position. He has to be able to read the game, of course, but, just as importantly, to know his own players because he has to become the bass guitar that supports all the other instruments. That takes time, and I don't think it's fair either to say that he couldn't do it nor to make him the answer to all our problems until he's been given that time. However, I feel pretty sure that he will never be given it, so if I were him, I'd put in a transfer request. He'll succeed at a different club and become a regular there, I feel sure. 

[Nuff Said 5,161]

7 hours ago, Jersey Canary said:

You’re missing the point. Whatever season we’ve played with Kenny in the side I bet the stats are better without him than with in whatever division.

Interesting argument. The stats will prove my point - but I’m not going to quote them. 🤔

[Nuff Said 5,161]

11 hours ago, Indy said:

You’re view, but again I point out that he’s not good enough for the premier league, two seasons in the top flight he and others have proved not good enough! Surely a new manager needs more changes than to keep a decent championship player of a few seasons ago! People are going on about getting Hernandez, Hugill, Sinani back and giving them next season! So how can anyone defend that we need Smith to assemble his team style and squad! You can’t keep all the failing players and think it’ll be different next time!

Changes needed this summer, big changes in that utterly rubbish midfield! When there’s limited choices McLean is still not a very good choice, it’s funny how not many other top clubs at our level haven’t been linked to him! Each to their own but for me I would like to see sweeping changes to a more youthful, athletic & energetic midfield.

But you’re using the Premier League (“two seasons in the top flight he and others have proved not good enough”, “top clubs”) to judge whether we should be selecting McLean in the Championship. 
 

I really don’t get the obsession with him on here. He’s not one of our outstanding players but he is not the problem. Decent 60 to 70 percenter most of the time, he’s easily good enough for the season to come.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 01/06/2022 at 16:07, Move Klose said:

Hes not very good. That's why he only played a bit part for us last time we were at this level. 

Unfortunately I think he falls into that category that people think he's better than what he is because "he loves the club"

His stats for us last time we were at this level don't make for good reading, 0 goals 0 assists in over 20 apps.

Being out for three months (or a third of the season) with an abductor tear wouldn't have help his numbers that year..

... but unless we intend to go and purchase another wide player, which I have doubts about as we have other areas we really need the investment, then we do need to put that 0 goals and 0 assists into context.

Cantwell has 0 goals and 0 assists in 19 appearances this season (albeit 8 of those in the top tier), Josh Sargent only scored in one game this season, and its 1 goal and 0 assists in 38 games for Norwich City for Placheta (26 in the Championship and 12 in the Premier League).

Rather than try and ascertain Onel's rightful place in the footballing pyramid, which is likely to be mid-table Championship, it is probably wiser to ascertain his place in the pecking order at Norwich City right now...

... and if Cantwell doesn't sort his life out sharpish, then Onel's 4 goals, and 3 assists in the Championship this season, in a largely injury free season, suggests to me that he might be worth his place in this squad. 

If we're going to be shedding wingers this summer I'd personally rather we binned off Placheta and released Hernandez in 2023, for the sake of the £750k or whatever it is that we'd get for him in a transfer fee.

Onel has always lacked footballing intelligence, but has enough pace and trickery to scare the sh*t out of 95% of the full backs in this league if coming off the bench in the 75th minute against tired legs. He's pretty much always been most effective as a bench player for us.

Can't say I've ever seen Placheta come off the bench and impact a game. 

Onel fills a place in the squad for me this season personally, much rather we focused resources on upgrading several centre midfielders. Can't be any clearer that this is the area which needs investment, we don't need to have to replace multiple wingers.

Edited June 3, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,840]

18 hours ago, Jersey Canary said:

It’ll be interesting to see the stats Norwich with Kenny playing and Norwich without.  I don’t think Kenny’s stats will be a ringing endorsement for him to play each week. 

Last season, we won 0.58 PPG (18 in 31) with McLean and 0.57 (4 in 7) without.

In 20/21, it was 2.18 with (83 in 38) and 1.75 without (14 in 8), although that does include a few short sub appearances. If you include games where he played at least 45 minutes, it's 2.17 with (65 in 30) and 2.00 without (32 in 16).

McLean isn't up to it in the Premier League, but he played most games this season because he was still better than the other options. That isn't Kenny's fault, it's the recruitment department's for not signing someone better.

[chicken 2,640]

27 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Cantwell has 0 goals and 0 assists in 19 appearances this season (albeit 8 of those in the top tier), Josh Sargent only scored in one game this season, and its 1 goal and 0 assists in 38 games for Norwich City for Placheta (26 in the Championship and 12 in the Premier League).

League game for Norwich - pernickety maybe, but he'd actually scored in Germany before signing for us, he also scored twice in the cup. I only really bring it up because the 19 appearances for Cantwell includes cup games and appearances for other teams doesn't it? So to make it a fair comparison...

https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=108959

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

6 minutes ago, chicken said:

League game for Norwich - pernickety maybe, but he'd actually scored in Germany before signing for us, he also scored twice in the cup. I only really bring it up because the 19 appearances for Cantwell includes cup games and appearances for other teams doesn't it? So to make it a fair comparison...

https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=108959

Well Sargent makes my top 4 anyway, if that's what we're saying we need in the squad.

Rashica

Sargent

Rowe

Hernandez

Get rid of Cantwell, Placheta, and Sinani.  An Onel upgrade would be nice but can't be a priority. 

Dowell is better centrally but is a decent contingency plan against Onel getting another serious injury. 

We can't rely on Cantwell anymore, even if he has a good pre-season, any moment he could decide to revert to Mr Can't Be Ar*sed and start posting his LOOK AT ME, ME, ME, ME posts on social media again.

Edited June 3, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Jersey Canary 143]

3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Interesting argument. The stats will prove my point - but I’m not going to quote them. 🤔

It’s a gut feeling from memory. I’m a season ticket holder so I see most of the games. Plus I don’t have the time for the research whereas, there might be a contributor who has this info more to hand to expand on the conversation quicker. 

[hogesar 9,722]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Last season, we won 0.58 PPG (18 in 31) with McLean and 0.57 (4 in 7) without.

In 20/21, it was 2.18 with (83 in 38) and 1.75 without (14 in 8), although that does include a few short sub appearances. If you include games where he played at least 45 minutes, it's 2.17 with (65 in 30) and 2.00 without (32 in 16).

McLean isn't up to it in the Premier League, but he played most games this season because he was still better than the other options. That isn't Kenny's fault, it's the recruitment department's for not signing someone better.

 

9 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

It’s a gut feeling from memory. I’m a season ticket holder so I see most of the games. Plus I don’t have the time for the research whereas, there might be a contributor who has this info more to hand to expand on the conversation quicker. 

Thats the thing. This gut feeling has just proven to be a biased view from yourself because a selection of posters on here for some reason decided he was the ultimate problem because he waves his arms when trying to organise other players. A job two consecutive experienced managers trust him with above anyone else in our squad.

[chicken 2,640]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Being out for three months (or a third of the season) with an abductor tear wouldn't have help his numbers that year..

... but unless we intend to go and purchase another wide player, which I have doubts about as we have other areas we really need the investment, then we do need to put that 0 goals and 0 assists into context.

Cantwell has 0 goals and 0 assists in 19 appearances this season (albeit 8 of those in the top tier), Josh Sargent only scored in one game this season, and its 1 goal and 0 assists in 38 games for Norwich City for Placheta (26 in the Championship and 12 in the Premier League).

Rather than try and ascertain Onel's rightful place in the footballing pyramid, which is likely to be mid-table Championship, it is probably wiser to ascertain his place in the pecking order at Norwich City right now...

... and if Cantwell doesn't sort his life out sharpish, then Onel's 4 goals, and 3 assists in the Championship this season, in a largely injury free season, suggests to me that he might be worth his place in this squad. 

If we're going to be shedding wingers this summer I'd personally rather we binned off Placheta and released Hernandez in 2023, for the sake of the £750k or whatever it is that we'd get for him in a transfer fee.

Onel has always lacked footballing intelligence, but has enough pace and trickery to scare the sh*t out of 95% of the full backs in this league if coming off the bench in the 75th minute against tired legs. He's pretty much always been most effective as a bench player for us.

Can't say I've ever seen Placheta come off the bench and impact a game. 

Onel fills a place in the squad for me this season personally, much rather we focused resources on upgrading several centre midfielders. Can't be any clearer that this is the area which needs investment, we don't need to have to replace multiple wingers.

This summer is going to be particularly interesting I feel. I think it's hard to predict anything isn't it? There are very few players you could honestly say are dead certs to be here next season. I think I listed them somewhere else.

McGovern, Gunn, Omobamidele, Byram, Giannoulis (it seems at the moment so should I even have him here?), McLean, Idah...

Pretty much any of the others have been linked to moves or could be off for being borderline what we want.

Out wide / attacking midfield will be the biggest area we see 'action' in I feel. Not necessarily in signing players, more outs than ins at this point for sure. Of what we have you would say Rashica is he only one we would probably be gutted to see go knowing he could well excel this season. I'd like to see Dowell hung onto because he certainly has ability in terms of finding passes and even goals at this level.

I think a lot depends upon whether we play two strikers or three AM's. Either way, Rashica, Dowell, Sargent are all good for the attacking three, Dowell probably more centrally but that I suppose will also be down to where PLM plays considering his best performances arguably came in that position.

With Rowe and Springett now looking like they are on the fringe of things, will they be loaned to get more regular game time or be trusted with more minutes and possibly starting births.

Re Cantwell, let Smith decide over the summer. Perhaps the experience at Bournemouth has hit home a bit? If it has and he is prepared to knuckle down and, more importantly, sign a new deal, then yes. If no. Need to cash in whilst we can.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

22 hours ago, hogesar said:

I personally think its a bit egotistical if an ordinary football fan thinks they know better than 2 sets of professional management and coaches and 2 ex players, especially when they don't really give me much to base it on, and when fans are known for picking a 'scapegoat' more often than not.

It’s not egotistical for someone to have an option. Everyone is allowed to like different things regardless if others think the same thing or not. If every manager and ex player was always right about things none of the would ever get the sack or sold but they do all the time. We are all human and are thus flawed in some capacity be that experienced in a subject or not. 

[hogesar 9,722]

9 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

It’s not egotistical for someone to have an option. Everyone is allowed to like different things regardless if others think the same thing or not. If every manager and ex player was always right about things none of the would ever get the sack or sold but they do all the time. We are all human and are thus flawed in some capacity be that experienced in a subject or not. 

Its egotistical to think your opinion is correct over the long list of people I just mentioned you have experience and / or expertise in the field. I get that when you have one manager they can sometimes be 'blind' to something in the fans opinion (although they don't see training week in week out, dont know the situations within the squad etc).

I dont think there's anything wrong about having that opinion but speaking about it on here as if its a fact when your opinion isn't even vaguely backed up by anyone with knowledge or expertise smacks of arrogance.

Personally, if I have an opinion on something that goes against all the experts opinions in that field I do a bit more reading / understanding.

[Jersey Canary 143]

6 hours ago, hogesar said:

 

Thats the thing. This gut feeling has just proven to be a biased view from yourself because a selection of posters on here for some reason decided he was the ultimate problem because he waves his arms when trying to organise other players. A job two consecutive experienced managers trust him with above anyone else in our squad.

And look what happened to the team and them as managers. Playing players like Kenny get you fired. 
it’s no good being an organiser when your 10 yards behind your man as they’ve effortlessly ran past you without a challenge. 

[Jersey Canary 143]

23 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Its egotistical to think your opinion is correct over the long list of people I just mentioned you have experience and / or expertise in the field. I get that when you have one manager they can sometimes be 'blind' to something in the fans opinion (although they don't see training week in week out, dont know the situations within the squad etc).

I dont think there's anything wrong about having that opinion but speaking about it on here as if its a fact when your opinion isn't even vaguely backed up by anyone with knowledge or expertise smacks of arrogance.

Personally, if I have an opinion on something that goes against all the experts opinions in that field I do a bit more reading / understanding.

You could also say your comments are egotistical on that basis. 
I’ve just stated an opinion hoping that a clever person would be able to furnish us with the data to prove one way or the other. 

[hogesar 9,722]

39 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

You could also say your comments are egotistical on that basis. 
I’ve just stated an opinion hoping that a clever person would be able to furnish us with the data to prove one way or the other. 

Someone did and you ignored it.

My comments aren't egotistical - I'm agreeing with those experts in the field,  the ex professionals with top tier playing experience - im not the one thinking they're wrong and I'm right.

Thats you.

[Jersey Canary 143]

4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Someone did and you ignored it.

My comments aren't egotistical - I'm agreeing with those experts in the field,  the ex professionals with top tier playing experience - im not the one thinking they're wrong and I'm right.

Thats you.

But by dismissing another point of view is surely the epitome of egotistical? And this is what you are doing. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Jersey Canary

[hogesar 9,722]

15 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

But by dismissing another point of view is surely the epitome of egotistical? And this is what you are doing. 

I'm dismissing another point of view based on evidence, stats, and further opinions from experts in the field. That not egotistical, that's a debate (just one that you lose).

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Maybe you guys should just agree to disagree? It’s not a right or wrong question it’s just a bunch of opinions that you can perfectly disagree on. 
 

the egotistical thing is trying to convince someone of your belief with no fact. FYI other people having the same option as you isn’t fact that’s just other opinion. The best comparison we would need to prove on a factual basis would be the average points gained with Kenny v’s the average points gained in games he’s missed. 
 

my own view is that he will be a useful squad player. 

[chicken 2,640]

2 hours ago, Jersey Canary said:

I’ve just stated an opinion hoping that a clever person would be able to furnish us with the data to prove one way or the other. 

Then why pose it as an opinion? Why not ask out of interest?

One thing that really narks me is people that express an opinion and then ask someone else to do the leg work to find information that supports their view! That's not how it works. You do your own homework to support your own opinion. If you don't have anything more substantial to back it up with, you can't really get all defensive over it.

May I suggest you frame it slightly differently next time? Eg "My reflection of McLean's season as a regular attendee to games is that he isn't that great. That is a personal perspective, I haven't any facts to back that up and as such statistics could well prove my observations are perhaps edged with my own bias."

Get's you out of jail, if, and only if, you are willing to accept that perhaps you are not standing on the most solid of footings.

Edited June 3, 2022 by chicken

[hertfordyellow 460]

9 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Well Sargent makes my top 4 anyway, if that's what we're saying we need in the squad.

Rashica

Sargent

Rowe

Hernandez

Get rid of Cantwell, Placheta, and Sinani.  An Onel upgrade would be nice but can't be a priority. 

Dowell is better centrally but is a decent contingency plan against Onel getting another serious injury. 

We can't rely on Cantwell anymore, even if he has a good pre-season, any moment he could decide to revert to Mr Can't Be Ar*sed and start posting his LOOK AT ME, ME, ME, ME posts on social media again.

Are you predicting Tzolis isn’t going to be here or so low in pecking order he doesn’t merit a mention. A tough first year in an unforgiving league, but a fresh start in an inferior league might see some fireworks from a previously respected talent.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, hertfordyellow said:

Are you predicting Tzolis isn’t going to be here or so low in pecking order he doesn’t merit a mention. A tough first year in an unforgiving league, but a fresh start in an inferior league might see some fireworks from a previously respected talent.

Forgot about him, his first season was quite forgettable

[hertfordyellow 460]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

Forgot about him, his first season was quite forgettable

I’m not sure he will stay but if he does and has a fresh preseason bounce, I think he’ll be played pretty often and will be too much for most teams to handle.

[Nuff Said 5,161]

1 hour ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Maybe you guys should just agree to disagree? It’s not a right or wrong question it’s just a bunch of opinions that you can perfectly disagree on. 
 

the egotistical thing is trying to convince someone of your belief with no fact. FYI other people having the same option as you isn’t fact that’s just other opinion. The best comparison we would need to prove on a factual basis would be the average points gained with Kenny v’s the average points gained in games he’s missed. 
 

my own view is that he will be a useful squad player. 

Jersey Canary said he believed the facts would show that we were worse with McLean than without him. Someone posted stats (AKA facts) that showed the opposite. That’s not a difference of opinion, that’s him being proven wrong. QED

[HazzaJet 256]

Can’t see why we would sell Tzolis yet. He’s only 20 and has 4 years left, so I think we will try to develop him into a high value winger, as there’s plenty of time for that to be done

[hertfordyellow 460]

27 minutes ago, HazzaJet said:

Can’t see why we would sell Tzolis yet. He’s only 20 and has 4 years left, so I think we will try to develop him into a high value winger, as there’s plenty of time for that to be done

More if he is unhappy. If he wants to go back Southern Europe.

[Jersey Canary 143]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

I'm dismissing another point of view based on evidence, stats, and further opinions from experts in the field. That not egotistical, that's a debate (just one that you lose).

So you are egotistical. Thanks for confirming. 

[Jersey Canary 143]

3 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Maybe you guys should just agree to disagree? It’s not a right or wrong question it’s just a bunch of opinions that you can perfectly disagree on. 
 

the egotistical thing is trying to convince someone of your belief with no fact. FYI other people having the same option as you isn’t fact that’s just other opinion. The best comparison we would need to prove on a factual basis would be the average points gained with Kenny v’s the average points gained in games he’s missed. 
 

my own view is that he will be a useful squad player. 

I posed a question and an opinion with the hope that someone with facts would furnish us with some more detail. 

[Move Klose 303]

1 hour ago, HazzaJet said:

Can’t see why we would sell Tzolis yet. He’s only 20 and has 4 years left, so I think we will try to develop him into a high value winger, as there’s plenty of time for that to be done

Think they've already made their mind up on him, if they can't get near to what we paid for him then he will be going out on loan.

HE WILL NOT BE HERE IN AUGUST.

[chicken 2,640]

8 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

I posed a question and an opinion with the hope that someone with facts would furnish us with some more detail. 

Again, that's just plain lazy and essentially rude. At it's heart you are saying someone else's time is worth less than yours so they can do the leg work. Don't expect a white knight to dig you out of a hole of your own making.