Farke to Dortmund

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

A boy can dream, can't he?

Unlikely but think how deleriously happy Daniel would be. 😀

[king canary 7,609]

'Lads we've sacked Marco Rose for a manager who has won 6 games out of 49 in the top flight. Get excited!'

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

'Lads we've sacked Marco Rose for a manager who has won 6 games out of 49 in the top flight. Get excited!'

Except with Dortmund he'd have a side that's usually one of the stronger teams in the Bundesliga, and known as a finishing school for young talent.

He'd be in his element.

[king canary 7,609]

9 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Except with Dortmund he'd have a side that's usually one of the stronger teams in the Bundesliga, and known as a finishing school for young talent.

He'd be in his element.

I'm sure he'd have a whale of the time.

My point was he's not going to be going there because one of the top Bundesliga clubs who can likely have their pick of managers isn't hiring someone with that record. 

[lake district canary 4,533]

47 minutes ago, king canary said:

My point was he's not going to be going there because one of the top Bundesliga clubs who can likely have their pick of managers isn't hiring someone with that record. 

Then of course they might think what a lot of us do - that with good players, Farke's methods would work at the highest level. 

[Naturalcynic 631]

45 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Then of course they might think what a lot of us do - that with good players, Farke's methods would work at the highest level. 

With the right players, even you could probably win a few games.

[lake district canary 4,533]

7 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

53 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Then of course they might think what a lot of us do - that with good players, Farke's methods would work at the highest level. 

With the right players, even you could probably win a few games.

Farke's gift was in being able to pull a club together and make all feel they are part of the journey, fans, players, employees alike.

It was an all inclusive, 'we are in this together' kind of attitude - and it was brilliant to be part of that, even up here and only attending a few games. Klopp does something similar as does Guardiola.  Not all managers are good at that - but Farke is.  Having mentioned Klopp and Guardiola, Farke's football was aimed at their kind of standard - we couldn't quite pull that kind of football off at the highest level, but that was as much down to the players not quite good enough to do that, than Farke's ability to create that kind of dreamworld football.

He was also good at clearing out or at least sorting out  those who did not buy into that all inclusive attitude - and quite right too.  People somehow like to belittle what he did for us, that it was just down to one or two players, which is nonsense. His character permeated right through the club and his football - at it's best - was breathtaking.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

I'm sure he'd have a whale of the time.

My point was he's not going to be going there because one of the top Bundesliga clubs who can likely have their pick of managers isn't hiring someone with that record. 

Possibly so, but as a former Dortmund reserve manager, he's hardly going to need much of an induction, will already be very well-versed in the ways of the club (and depending on who is behind the scenes there, is also going to be known to them), and I'm sure they will realise that with a team of youngsters that were decent quality for the league they were in, Farke was excellent at getting a tune out of them.

Farke's problem with us was that our recruitment wasn't good enough for the Premier League, so he couldn't quite get his style to stick. Yes, his record in our top flight was weak, but we had a weak team for that division. Dortmund won't be in that position.

[corbs 147]

Sad to see the TNC boys coming across as ungracious in their comments about Farke. They did a good job over lockdown so I’m quite disappointed. Hope to them at Celtic Park. 

[Naturalcynic 631]

11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Farke's gift was in being able to pull a club together and make all feel they are part of the journey, fans, players, employees alike.

It was an all inclusive, 'we are in this together' kind of attitude - and it was brilliant to be part of that, even up here and only attending a few games. Klopp does something similar as does Guardiola.  Not all managers are good at that - but Farke is.  Having mentioned Klopp and Guardiola, Farke's football was aimed at their kind of standard - we couldn't quite pull that kind of football off at the highest level, but that was as much down to the players not quite good enough to do that, than Farke's ability to create that kind of dreamworld football.

He was also good at clearing out or at least sorting out  those who did not buy into that all inclusive attitude - and quite right too.  People somehow like to belittle what he did for us, that it was just down to one or two players, which is nonsense. His character permeated right through the club and his football - at it's best - was breathtaking.

I really do think you’ve built him up to be something that he wasn’t. That feel good factor that you describe certainly wasn’t there in his first season, or in either of his seasons in the Prem.  As for the 2 promotion seasons, yes, they were good, just as they were under Lambert, Alex Neil, Nigel Worthington etc etc.  Farke wasn’t unique in that respect.

[lake district canary 4,533]

3 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

I really do think you’ve built him up to be something that he wasn’t. That feel good factor that you describe certainly wasn’t there in his first season, or in either of his seasons in the Prem.  As for the 2 promotion seasons, yes, they were good, just as they were under Lambert, Alex Neil, Nigel Worthington etc etc.  Farke wasn’t unique in that respect.

Farke was unique in respect of the kind of football he wanted us to play. Lambert's style was based on ultra positivity and competitiveness, Alex Neil's on organising and motivating players we already had, Worthy's was good, but not spectaclar and based largely on having Hucks on board.  Farke's promotions were all his own work, building a new way of playing from nothing in the first one and rebooting us for the second one - and at times we were sensational to watch.  

 

[Monty13 2,235]

6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Farke was unique in respect of the kind of football he wanted us to play. Lambert's style was based on ultra positivity and competitiveness, Alex Neil's on organising and motivating players we already had, Worthy's was good, but not spectaclar and based largely on having Hucks on board.  Farke's promotions were all his own work, building a new way of playing from nothing in the first one and rebooting us for the second one - and at times we were sensational to watch.  

 

Their styles weren’t abject failures in the PL though. With zero irony you’ve listed the 4 things Farkes team was completely lacking.

As good as the football under Farke was in the Championship I’d be amazed if Dortmund took a punt on such a risky appointment. Their fan base would be at best severely underwhelmed.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Monty13

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

At least he will already know how to use their Soccerbot.

That's got to count in his favour!

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

Pochettino favourite followed by Edin Terzic.

 

[TheBaldOne66 689]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by TheBaldOne66

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

2 hours ago, Pyro Pete said:

At least he will already know how to use their Soccerbot.

That's got to count in his favour!

Do Dortmund have soccerbot as well?

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

6 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

 

Technology is great when it works well, and a goddamn pain in the p-o-o-p chute when it isn't.

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

1 minute ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Do Dortmund have soccerbot as well?

Reportedly, that's where our lot got the idea from, having seen it in action in Dortmund.

I believe they call it Footbonaut though.

[astro 360]

3 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

I really do think you’ve built him up to be something that he wasn’t. That feel good factor that you describe certainly wasn’t there in his first season, or in either of his seasons in the Prem.  As for the 2 promotion seasons, yes, they were good, just as they were under Lambert, Alex Neil, Nigel Worthington etc etc.  Farke wasn’t unique in that respect.

Really? Watch any of the match highlights from the games in our first premiership season under Farke, and then watch the game against the same team with Smith in charge, then tell tell me the buzz from the crowd is the same. 

[king canary 7,609]

4 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

I really do think you’ve built him up to be something that he wasn’t. That feel good factor that you describe certainly wasn’t there in his first season, or in either of his seasons in the Prem.  As for the 2 promotion seasons, yes, they were good, just as they were under Lambert, Alex Neil, Nigel Worthington etc etc.  Farke wasn’t unique in that respect.

Exactly. The feel good factor came from winning, not due to anything unique to Farke. No doubt he was really good at winning championship games but the promotions under Worthy and Lambert felt as just as 'together' as those under Farke.

[king canary 7,609]

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Farke was unique in respect of the kind of football he wanted us to play. Lambert's style was based on ultra positivity and competitiveness, Alex Neil's on organising and motivating players we already had, Worthy's was good, but not spectaclar and based largely on having Hucks on board.  Farke's promotions were all his own work, building a new way of playing from nothing in the first one and rebooting us for the second one - and at times we were sensational to watch.  

 

How were Farkes promotion more his own work than others? In fact you could easily argue his promotion was more of a joint effort than those that came before as he had Webber handling all the transfers.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

6 hours ago, king canary said:

I'm sure he'd have a whale of the time.

My point was he's not going to be going there because one of the top Bundesliga clubs who can likely have their pick of managers isn't hiring someone with that record. 

I don't see why not. Farke's preferred approach is elegant football that lends itself to skilled players. I'd be totally unsurprised to see him do very well managing a top-flight club.

A manager can only be judged against what he does with the material at his disposal, much as an F1 driver is constrained by his car. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Monty13 2,235]

2 hours ago, astro said:

Really? Watch any of the match highlights from the games in our first premiership season under Farke, and then watch the game against the same team with Smith in charge, then tell tell me the buzz from the crowd is the same. 

How is that comparable?

Go back and watch games under Lambert for your answer.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Monty13
Spelling

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

How were Farkes promotion more his own work than others? In fact you could easily argue his promotion was more of a joint effort than those that came before as he had Webber handling all the transfers.

The coach has total control over how the players are directed on the pitch, and recruiting players is a pretty collegiate affair everywhere these days; the sporting director/head coach model we have is the norm in the Bundesliga. 

[astro 360]

39 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

His is that comparable?

Go back and watch games under Lambert for your answer.

Ok, using your two options, I’d say they were pretty similar. Would you argue the feel-good factor under Lambert was better than that under Farke? I wouldn’t. 

[Monty13 2,235]

15 minutes ago, astro said:

Ok, using your two options, I’d say they were pretty similar. Would you argue the feel-good factor under Lambert was better than that under Farke? I wouldn’t. 

I think the idea that one was more “feel good”than the other is impossibly subjective and unobvious. So yes my point was also they were similar.

I think they were largely the same because the manager was only important in the sense they were providing the results and achievements that generated the feeling.

I think the fact it turned so sour relatively quickly when the results and performances under that manager changed are evidence of that.

[lake district canary 4,533]

Comparing the feel good factor with Lambert is difficult, I grant you, but if nothing else, at least Farke could speak English and put more than two words together in a way that was understandable and endeared himself connected with fans through what he said. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by lake district canary

[king canary 7,609]

13 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I don't see why not. Farke's preferred approach is elegant football that lends itself to skilled players. I'd be totally unsurprised to see him do very well managing a top-flight club.

A manager can only be judged against what he does with the material at his disposal, much as an F1 driver is constrained by his car. 

The thing is that Dortmund are on of the biggest clubs in European football so have the luxury of being able to choose a coach with a track record of excellent football and results at the highest level.

 

 

[corbs 147]

Great times under Lambert and Farke. Neither would be my all time favourite manager, though Farke comes close. One difference for me, and football is all about subjective opinions, I never really liked Lambert as a person, although I did admire his touch of charisma. He’s probably a great guy etc, but I’m just an onlooker. With respect to Farke, I feel well, love actually! It was simply the most exciting appointment my club has ever made, and Introduced a all round feel good factor I’ve not experienced in 50 years of support. Im overly loyal to Norwich managers and wish the Shakey 2 well, but it’s back to the future now. 

[lake district canary 4,533]

On 21/05/2022 at 12:32, king canary said:

The thing is that Dortmund are on of the biggest clubs in European football so have the luxury of being able to choose a coach with a track record of excellent football and results at the highest level.

All that is true, but it is also true that could pick anyone who they think has the right potential - and Farke has the advantage of knowing the club well - and he was certainly considered a good choice for their second team, so it is easy to think that he may go back there at some stage, having had good experience elsewhere.  It may be too soon for that, he may need to prove himself more before a top job, but on the other hand, he is held in high respect in football, including with Tuchel and Guardiola - so I wouldn't rule him out of any club.

The main point to remember is that his football ethics and style have been proved within the restraints of the budget at Norwich - and given a club with much more in the way of resources, there is every reason to suppose he could translate that to a higher level.