Keinan Davis pricetag.

[CrankyCanary 32]

If the article telling the truth the fee is implied to be £5M-£10M if a bidding war ensued he'll go for more. He's 24 and has scored 12 senior goals across his whole career, however talented he may be, that's f****** low. I may be mostly basing this off of stats but that transfer value still seems excessively high, English players be English players aye. https://www.norfolklive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/norwich-nottingham-forest-villa-transfer-6976107

[Newtopia 583]

His price tag seems high for someone with less proven goal scoring history as Jordan Hugill.  I can only seem him joining if Jordan leaves, it is hard to see us going into a season with Pukki, Idah, Hugill, and Davis, as our four options.  

[Mr.Carrow 394]

Can't see how he's any better than Idah and Idah is still only 21.

[cambridgeshire canary 7,932]

Won't start over Pukki, not worth the price tag to sit on the bench alongside Idah and possibly Sargent too

[dylanisabaddog 6,196]

9 hours ago, Mr.Carrow said:

Can't see how he's any better than Idah and Idah is still only 21.

I've seen him 4 times live on TV for Forest this season. No thanks. 

[PurpleCanary 6,463]

19 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Won't start over Pukki, not worth the price tag to sit on the bench alongside Idah and possibly Sargent too

That encapsulates the dilemma, because based  on performances so far none out of Sargent, Idah and Hugill is close to a top of the Championship level goalscorer (is Sargent even really a striker?) so what happens if Pukki is injured or loses some form.

[king canary 8,943]

37 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

That encapsulates the dilemma, because based  on performances so far none out of Sargent, Idah and Hugill is close to a top of the Championship level goalscorer (is Sargent even really a striker?) so what happens if Pukki is injured or loses some form.

Idah showed some things pre injury this season to say he should be getting more game time next season, especially as his playing style suits what Dean Smith generally likes to do. 

[PurpleCanary 6,463]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

Idah showed some things pre injury this season to say he should be getting more game time next season, especially as his playing style suits what Dean Smith generally likes to do. 

KC, as a goalscorer or more as someone taking the weight of the attack? I don’t know, because I haven’t seen the latter. And does Smith want to play what in effect would be 4-4-2? It seems from reports and from what posters have said that the recent kind of fluid formation with Pukki up front, two mobile wide players, and a No10, has worked well.

[king canary 8,943]

3 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

KC, as a goalscorer or more as someone taking the weight of the attack? I don’t know, because I haven’t seen the latter. And does Smith want to play what in effect would be 4-4-2? It seems from reports and from what posters have said that the recent kind of fluid formation with Pukki up front, two mobile wide players, and a No10, has worked well.

More as the fulcrum of the attack- what we've missed is a striker with the ability to play with his back to goal, hold the ball up and bring others into play. I don't think he'll be bagging 25-30 goals a season ala Pukki but the idea is he helps others score more. 

I'm not sure it weds us to a 4-4-2, that isn't the formation Smith has historically played- I think Smith has an unusual situation in that he has a fantastic goal scorer in Pukki who doesn't really suit his natural style of play, so he may play two up to top to try and get the best out of both Pukki and others in the team. 

[Tetteys Jig 853]

Idah has also shown that the whole “won’t start over Pukki” arguement is now gone as we are better with 4-4-2 or some inside forward type players supporting Pukki when he plays now we don’t have Buendia to just do all the creating.

We need to get better at low effort goals. Doesn’t mean brexitball hoof it to the strikers but even Liverpool have shown the virtues of making it stick in the forward positions and having an outlet for a long pass with their “heavy metal football”.

Sure they get more respect than the likes of Burnley but that aspect of their game is fairly similar.

Someone like Kienan Davis (but I guess not him) would fit perfectly fine into the squad. We made a bit of a mistake passing up Ivan Toney previously because of this “no better than Pukki so won’t play much” mantra. Those 2 up top would have been unstoppable.

[PurpleCanary 6,463]

31 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

Idah has also shown that the whole “won’t start over Pukki” arguement is now gone as we are better with 4-4-2 or some inside forward type players supporting Pukki when he plays now we don’t have Buendia to just do all the creating.

We need to get better at low effort goals. Doesn’t mean brexitball hoof it to the strikers but even Liverpool have shown the virtues of making it stick in the forward positions and having an outlet for a long pass with their “heavy metal football”.

Sure they get more respect than the likes of Burnley but that aspect of their game is fairly similar.

Someone like Kienan Davis (but I guess not him) would fit perfectly fine into the squad. We made a bit of a mistake passing up Ivan Toney previously because of this “no better than Pukki so won’t play much” mantra. Those 2 up top would have been unstoppable.

I am hampered by not having seen us play, but has it really settled that argument? In general terms, if I was an opposing manager, I would be happier trying to play against a comparatively rigid 442 rather than a fluid formation with a lone striker and players interchanging, which seems to have been how we played the last two matches. In Championship terms I don’t think we are going to be short of creativity next season.

 

[sgncfc 1,345]

Smith has apparently denied interest in Davis. Personally, I rate Idah much higher.

[Tetteys Jig 853]

19 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I am hampered by not having seen us play, but has it really settled that argument? In general terms, if I was an opposing manager, I would be happier trying to play against a comparatively rigid 442 rather than a fluid formation with a lone striker and players interchanging, which seems to have been how we played the last two matches. In Championship terms I don’t think we are going to be short of creativity next season.

 

I suppose I meant more that we stumbled across a system that incorporated Pukki as well as a physical, direct forward player. Call it 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, whatever you like but my point was that now we have had to reinvent our attack in Buendias absence, there is room for this type player.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

I know we have to look at all areas but scoring goals in the Championship hasn't been a problem for us.

[shefcanary 3,081]

I'm not surprised Smith is not interested in Davis. He looks like a typical lower league "lump" up front, probably no better than Hugill really (his stats support this).  Forest use him mainly to unsettle opposition defences, sub him on the hour, when their loan stars then get to work to finish off the opposition.  That is not Deano's type of player.

[king canary 8,943]

18 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I am hampered by not having seen us play, but has it really settled that argument? In general terms, if I was an opposing manager, I would be happier trying to play against a comparatively rigid 442 rather than a fluid formation with a lone striker and players interchanging, which seems to have been how we played the last two matches. In Championship terms I don’t think we are going to be short of creativity next season.

 

I think the natural progression, with Pukki still in the team, is to have one of the strikers more flexible when we don't have the ball but I'm not sure exactly who.

So say for instance we set up with a notional 4-2-3-1 like this...

Krul

Byram, Hanley, Omobamidele, Giannoulis

PLM, Sorenson

Tzolis, Dowell, Idah

Pukki

I think when defending this is the shape we'd be using, with Dowell dropping a bit deeper and Idah needing to be the one to track back and offer cover. However, when we've got the ball I'd expect it to become more of a 4-2-2-2 sort of shape with Idah more central, Dowell and Tzolis interchanging and coming inside to support the strikers, letting Dimi and Byram push forward.

The choice here is who do we ask to be the focal point of the attack in transition. If you choose Pukki then it changes the outlook as your out ball is more about trying to get in behind defences, and thread those through-balls that Teemu loves to get in behind. If its Idah then you can be a bit more direct in transition and ask him to either hit the channels or stay central and hold up the ball to bring Tzolis, Dowell or Pukki into the game a bit more. 

In the Championship and with the addition of a proper holding midfielder we may not have to make that choice and we can play them both up there without asking either to do a huge amount of tracking back. In the Premier League we definitely can't 

[PurpleCanary 6,463]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

I think the natural progression, with Pukki still in the team, is to have one of the strikers more flexible when we don't have the ball but I'm not sure exactly who.

So say for instance we set up with a notional 4-2-3-1 like this...

Krul

Byram, Hanley, Omobamidele, Giannoulis

PLM, Sorenson

Tzolis, Dowell, Idah

Pukki

I think when defending this is the shape we'd be using, with Dowell dropping a bit deeper and Idah needing to be the one to track back and offer cover. However, when we've got the ball I'd expect it to become more of a 4-2-2-2 sort of shape with Idah more central, Dowell and Tzolis interchanging and coming inside to support the strikers, letting Dimi and Byram push forward.

The choice here is who do we ask to be the focal point of the attack in transition. If you choose Pukki then it changes the outlook as your out ball is more about trying to get in behind defences, and thread those through-balls that Teemu loves to get in behind. If its Idah then you can be a bit more direct in transition and ask him to either hit the channels or stay central and hold up the ball to bring Tzolis, Dowell or Pukki into the game a bit more. 

In the Championship and with the addition of a proper holding midfielder we may not have to make that choice and we can play them both up there without asking either to do a huge amount of tracking back. In the Premier League we definitely can't 

Thanks. Good post. I agree about the significance of a CDM to allow others to play. My worry - and why I think we need another striker - is that I suspect some fans are being too optimistic about Idah. But then they have seen him play recently and I haven't...🤩