Solving the creativity problem in the champs

[Renskay 36]

15 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

In answer to the original question - Yes! Scott Twine!  

 

 

Twine gives me such Madison style vibes from his play style. I'd love us to pick him up.

[stratton canary 134]

15 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

He's no Adel Taarabt 😉

Thank god 🙄

[ged in the onion bag 855]

3 hours ago, Monty13 said:

We are already losing the 4 loans this summer, probably Rupp as well although I’d be tempted to give him a 2 year contract personally. Cantwell has almost certainly played his last game for us.

Thats potentially 5-6 replacements needed before anyone leaves (and someone will).

I doubt any of the senior loans are coming back into the fold plus none of the loaned youngsters have had exceptional seasons from what I can tell.

Writing off players like Gibson (who cost us about 8 million didn’t he?), Sargent (who cost more and is still a youngster with huge potential), Dowell, McClean and Zimmerman is foolish to me given we already need so much new blood and the more we dilute our funds with signings the lower quality they will be. 

The next summer if hopefully we get promotion some more players can be upgraded but given our limited funds I’d rather us focus those upgrades personally.

 

I take and understand your points, they are fair enough but your final paragraph is the point where our two arguments collide!   
 

If we get promotion next summer, the gap we have to make up is just too huge and will, in all likelihood, result in another thoroughly depressing EPL experience.    For starters Pukki will be slowing down by then and will need replacing.
 

Based on what we have available, both quality of first team player and funds, barring a miracle, another EPL failure will be the outcome and we will have the problem I see now next summer instead.   It hasn’t worked that way.   We can’t rely on loan players not only because they are a risk and often don’t improve us, but because they don’t know our style of play, aren’t experienced enough usually and get in the way of us developing our own.    Evidenced by Skipp, Gilmour, Williams, Kabak and Normann all of whom we have to replace….. and to do that you argue we can’t afford to get rid of the players who are already not good enough!   I don’t see how your argument is sustainable or how we can be a successful EPL team repeating what we’ve done so far and expecting a different result.     We have to produce enough good players to be competitive before we get promoted again and I maintain that’s getting lads in the team who the club hope and trust can be better than those quoted.    If that means we end up mid-table next season, so be it.

[Monty13 2,235]

4 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I take and understand your points, they are fair enough but your final paragraph is the point where our two arguments collide!   
 

If we get promotion next summer, the gap we have to make up is just too huge and will, in all likelihood, result in another thoroughly depressing EPL experience.    For starters Pukki will be slowing down by then and will need replacing.
 

Based on what we have available, both quality of first team player and funds, barring a miracle, another EPL failure will be the outcome and we will have the problem I see now next summer instead.   It hasn’t worked that way.   We can’t rely on loan players not only because they are a risk and often don’t improve us, but because they don’t know our style of play, aren’t experienced enough usually and get in the way of us developing our own.    Evidenced by Skipp, Gilmour, Williams, Kabak and Normann all of whom we have to replace….. and to do that you argue we can’t afford to get rid of the players who are already not good enough!   I don’t see how your argument is sustainable or how we can be a successful EPL team repeating what we’ve done so far and expecting a different result.     We have to produce enough good players to be competitive before we get promoted again and I maintain that’s getting lads in the team who the club hope and trust can be better than those quoted.    If that means we end up mid-table next season, so be it.

I’m sorry but I personally think this bit is madness.

We want to be promoted next season, we can only continue to develop the squad if we are, otherwise we start going backwards.

Hoping we find a bunch of rough stones we can polish into PL gems in one season in the Championship is just that, it’s hope. We need to have a mix of potential (as most of it won’t fulfil it), experienced players who are good enough to do a job and a few genuine PL quality players.

I’d argue this season we increased the quality of the overall squad but decreased the quality of the first 11, one step forward, two back but it’s happened now.

We need to try to add a few quality players that increase the effectiveness of the 1st eleven. That’s what we failed to do pretty much to a man last summer.

The idea we are going to create a PL ready 1st eleven just after being relegated also doesn’t make sense to me, we need to add players we think are good enough for the PL both this summer and next but ultimately we won’t create that team in one season after being relegated and we will never create it before promotion and the extra finances that unlocks.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,166]

7 hours ago, Renskay said:

Twine gives me such Madison style vibes from his play style. I'd love us to pick him up.

The way Twine and Maddison take free kicks looks identical. 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

14 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I’m sorry but I personally think this bit is madness.

We want to be promoted next season, we can only continue to develop the squad if we are, otherwise we start going backwards.

Hoping we find a bunch of rough stones we can polish into PL gems in one season in the Championship is just that, it’s hope. We need to have a mix of potential (as most of it won’t fulfil it), experienced players who are good enough to do a job and a few genuine PL quality players.

I’d argue this season we increased the quality of the overall squad but decreased the quality of the first 11, one step forward, two back but it’s happened now.

We need to try to add a few quality players that increase the effectiveness of the 1st eleven. That’s what we failed to do pretty much to a man last summer.

The idea we are going to create a PL ready 1st eleven just after being relegated also doesn’t make sense to me, we need to add players we think are good enough for the PL both this summer and next but ultimately we won’t create that team in one season after being relegated and we will never create it before promotion and the extra finances that unlocks.

Welcome to your view, I think your route is where the madness lies, its very safe but like they say, doing the same thing and expecting different results is exactly that!    You do recognise that I am advocating that we prepare over two seasons at least, not one as you suggest.   Our squad quality is not improved, we lost Buendia and Skipp and have 4 loanees in it.   All we have now if more players not capable of performing where we want them to perform, the EPL.   

Never said we create a team ready just after relegation, I am arguing exactly against that.  I don't want us anywhere near the EPL in a season's time as we will only get thumped again.      Didn't realise that wasn't clear.   We have opposing views, not a problem, don't expect we will agree anytime soon but your comments above don't reflect my case.    

[Monty13 2,235]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Welcome to your view, I think your route is where the madness lies, its very safe but like they say, doing the same thing and expecting different results is exactly that!    You do recognise that I am advocating that we prepare over two seasons at least, not one as you suggest.   Our squad quality is not improved, we lost Buendia and Skipp and have 4 loanees in it.   All we have now if more players not capable of performing where we want them to perform, the EPL.   

Never said we create a team ready just after relegation, I am arguing exactly against that.  I don't want us anywhere near the EPL in a season's time as we will only get thumped again.      Didn't realise that wasn't clear.   We have opposing views, not a problem, don't expect we will agree anytime soon but your comments above don't reflect my case.    

If we aren’t promoted next season players leave, if we manage to keep hold of our best players this summer they will be gone next year. Any young players we have that do well are also ripe for poaching.

We won’t progress in the Championship if we stay there and likely will go backwards the longer we do. I’d we aren’t favourites for promotion and as money becomes more of a risk we also lose our recruitment advantage over other Championship clubs.

I don’t want to get promoted and get thumped again either, it’s why it needs a change of playing philosophy and much better recruitment than the last two failed attempts.

[canarybubbles 1,923]

A lot of the discussion on here seems to assume that you can pick and choose when you get promoted. IMO that's nonsense. If we go up next season, we take it. Even if we fear another season like this one has been.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,166]

On 18/04/2022 at 19:52, Thirsty Lizard said:

In answer to the original question - Yes! Scott Twine!  

 

 

So - just the four goals for Scott Twine this afternoon. Taking him to 20 for the season.

 

[shefcanary 2,410]

2 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

So - just the four goals for Scott Twine this afternoon. Taking him to 20 for the season.

 

Beginning to look like be could be the one; let's see how they do in the play offs, but definitely need to get in quick.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

19 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Beginning to look like be could be the one; let's see how they do in the play offs, but definitely need to get in quick.

looks a smart bit of  business by MK dons free transfer costing 300k compo 

while we are there nick all their scouts as well !!