Striving to make sense of the Ukraine war

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

Can't help but feel the so called Moscow drone strikes were more for effect than to cause any real damage. Why send slow moving drones to be shot down in broad daylight? A PR stunt either way.

A night attack would of been more difficult to stop.

[Sheva 124]

So you elected a clown and ended up with a coke junkie, …sounds about right for Ukraine!

 

 

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

7 minutes ago, Sheva said:

So you elected a clown and ended up with a coke junkie, …sounds about right for Ukraine!

 

 

 

 

Is this the totally debunked, digitally faked 2019 story surfacing again?

[KiwiScot 1,461]

Waiting for this Offensive then. From any side.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

I'm not awaiting to be called in for military service, too old for being propaganda fodder, I got some decent boots, but will try and get a helmet of sorts with this war the UKUS is fanning.

We are not innocent bystanders but at war with Russia, according to the Geneva conventions. Mind our fickle propagandists journalist can't see or say such a thing.

China is not supplying Russia and has made attempt to negotiate a peace settlement, as has the Indonesian defense minister, all these moves were rejected and ignored by the MSM and its collaborators, some may wonder why.

Is it because the economic spectrum contraction, the cost of living crisis, or our lack of support for this utter madness?

Are our war mongering party politicians worries about a public backlash? or why are they forever clamping down on protestors with a conscience? by giving the political police force and malleable judges the order to keep us quiet and divided with prison sentences for stopping murderous weapons being developed and built here? to clamp down on public discourse and dissent to their murderous intent and policies?

Are our politicians more scared about the general public? Their actions are despicable and ruthless enough, and there is no political opposition in the HoC to this warmongering anywhere,  instead they are fanning the flames of the Ukrainian war and that against the Palestinian's in Palestine, the 70 year old, slow burn fascism by Zionist Israel. 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

Prigozhin calling out Russian claims over Ukrainian casualties as fantasy apparently.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65825304

[Midlands Yellow 4,081]

I wish Boris was still around and leading Russia. No time for wars when every day’s a party. 
 

 

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

14 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I wish Boris was still around and leading Russia. No time for wars when every day’s a party. 
 

 

Dunno, Yeltsin still had the First Chechen War.

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

I feel very sad for all the mobilized and generally ignorant of the facts Russians. As many have said the war is not with them but Russian regime and it's war-lords .

That said, it's clear the Ukrainians need to kick the Russians completely out of Ukraine. We need to give them whatever they need. This is a war for civilization in exactly the same manner as WW2 was.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[KiwiScot 1,461]

Very sad what this dam bursting is doing. Russians clearly to blame at best through neglect of the dam itself, but most likely blowing it up. Desperate and/or Evil move, but also a brilliant miltary one with Russia reminding us daily on the true face of War.

[ricardo 7,401]

59 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Very sad what this dam bursting is doing. Russians clearly to blame at best through neglect of the dam itself, but most likely blowing it up. Desperate and/or Evil move, but also a brilliant miltary one with Russia reminding us daily on the true face of War.

A scorched earth policy doesn't seem very sensible for territory you hope to hold.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,801]

23 minutes ago, ricardo said:

A scorched earth policy doesn't seem very sensible for territory you hope to hold.

Neither does blowing neighborhoods you wish to control to blasted crators and smithereens yet thats what Russia is doing

[Capt. Pants 4,277]

13 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Neither does blowing neighborhoods you wish to control to blasted crators and smithereens yet thats what Russia is doing

They couldn't give a sh1t. They'll just force Ukrainians to repair/rebuild or live in the rubble.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

A scorched earth policy doesn't seem very sensible for territory you hope to hold.

They don't have a hope in hell of holding it and never did. The only reason they have been able to hold the occupied bits is because they flooded them with Russian sympathisers years ago, stoked tensions and supplied the Ukrainian rebel factions with money and arms to fight the main Ukrainian government. Now they've advanced into areas where the civvies don't want them there, their supply lines are a mess and they're trying to perform an invasion like it's the 1940's, failing miserably because the world and warfare changed a fair bit in the past 80 years.

So now they're just resorting to burn/drown/destroy everything because it's easier to occupy a dead area of wastleland than anything useful to life/society.

My Ukrainian cleaner who's over here with her 4 year old son, she's from one of the towns that's been washed away by this damn incident. She was an engineer at home but her English isn't good enough to get a comparable job here so she works in the village pub and doing cleaning for various families. She's doesn't know what's happened to friends that stayed at home, she wants to go back but it's too dangerous for her child, it's just absolutely horrible. I hope that Putin gets what's coming to him in short order, personally I wouldn't be against giving the Ukrainians whatever they need to bring the war a little closer to home for the Russians, see how they like it.

[Bort 34]

Interesting read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/

 

[Sheva 124]

I’m no longer in direct contact with so many Ukrainians, haven’t been there for a couple of years and to be honest can’t be on their side completely against Russia, when I know this situation was the making of America and the EU.

This conflict/war was so predictable way back, planned by the west for many many years. We witnessed the first stones thrown, then a petrol bomb in Maiden. Sky TV were scrambling for news then and asked for updates on the ground, just goes to show how flimsy news reporting is! Skipping a few details, I can say this as fact. The US had a lot of activists spread inside Ukraine, some very close fiends. The common link of all I got to know, over many years, was that they were Democrats and had links to the government, the Clinton’s especially. 

The west provoked this war, not Russia. They are using Ukraine to fight and divide Russia. The globalists want Russia to be weak and they want the land of Ukraine under their control. China has a big stake in the agricultural land, the finest in the world.

There are experimental farms in Ukraine, which I’m sure wouldn’t be allowed  in the EU, we have seen some ‘amazing’ animals, said to financed by Canadians.  These places are not open to the general public and are secured. Ukraine has some secrets and surprises.

It’s just to easy to see Putin as the bad guy  and Russia the enemy. Russia didn’t move towards NATO, NATO moved towards it, that was the threat that wasn’t going to be ignored. If you prod the bear, it will attack to defend itself.

I understand that Russia wants to preserve its culture and way of life. (It will never except same sex  marriages, children are untouchable, as are the elderly)…So does Ukraine btw but has been hypnotised in thinking that the EU is a vast money tree and they all will live in a castle.Ukraine is a part of greater Russia, it has  little in common with the US or EU.

We have been lied to, Ukraine does not have a hero president, but a puppet, an actor, who like so many will do very well out of this war. They are all busy feathering their nests, the arms manufacturers are making billons, Blackrock is invested, the Bidens are in, Boris trying to get back in, German, French, UK companies on standby, big Jewish money.

The wars going well, America is fighting Russia without losing a life, the brave fighting Ukraines who in the past did the lions share of the USSR fighting are now being used by the Americans.
 

But slowly people are waking up, it’s horrible to admit that you are being used. No one will win a military battle, land will be won and lost, no bodies will come alive, dead is dead and beautiful strong men, women and children  on both sides are gone forever, while the politicians carry out their plans to globalise the world.

I guess if your sold on the idea that Putin is an evil dictator and Zelenskyy is the brave good guy, then you will probably disagree with everything I say, but I have a very balanced family and friends within US, UK and Ukraine, I know the country very well, bottom to top and this is my conclusion.

 

 

 

 
 

[Bort 34]

11 hours ago, Sheva said:

big Jewish money.

Shame, you were doing quite well until this.

Put the antisemitic conspiracy theories in the bin, and acknowledge that "globalism" is just the inevitable international development of capitalism.

If we want to abolish this state of economic exploitation, then we need to move towards socialism (and in the meantime, a multipolar world would be an improvement from US domination).

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

1 hour ago, Bort said:

Shame, you were doing quite well until this.

Put the antisemitic conspiracy theories in the bin, and acknowledge that "globalism" is just the inevitable international development of capitalism.

If we want to abolish this state of economic exploitation, then we need to move towards socialism (and in the meantime, a multipolar world would be an improvement from US domination).

I've nothing against a multipolar world (and the intrinsic reduction that implies in US hegemony) - would be a good idea - but the other 'poles' must respect human rights and the right to dissent as a bare minimum. Then the 'poles' would be friends with which we can happily compete and on occasion disagree. That excludes both Russia and China as currently governed.  

Antipathy or outright hostility to the US or western governments by some is clearly misplaced if you could not make the same public statements criticising their governments in Russia, China, Iran etc. Be thankful you live in an enlightened society despite all its imperfections and still striving to do better.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[Sheva 124]

 

This is big money investment, a place which I know well.

I’ll only talk from experience, no exterior motives other than to see peace and health to my friends and family still left.

 I particularly wish my brother home from the front, so that he can return to his profession as a lawyer, find a wife and have the chance to build his life again, either in Dnipro Oblast or Israel.
 

 

 

[KiwiScot 1,461]

14 hours ago, Sheva said:

I’m no longer in direct contact with so many Ukrainians, haven’t been there for a couple of years and to be honest can’t be on their side completely against Russia, when I know this situation was the making of America and the EU.

This conflict/war was so predictable way back, planned by the west for many many years. We witnessed the first stones thrown, then a petrol bomb in Maiden. Sky TV were scrambling for news then and asked for updates on the ground, just goes to show how flimsy news reporting is! Skipping a few details, I can say this as fact. The US had a lot of activists spread inside Ukraine, some very close fiends. The common link of all I got to know, over many years, was that they were Democrats and had links to the government, the Clinton’s especially. 

The west provoked this war, not Russia. They are using Ukraine to fight and divide Russia. The globalists want Russia to be weak and they want the land of Ukraine under their control. China has a big stake in the agricultural land, the finest in the world.

There are experimental farms in Ukraine, which I’m sure wouldn’t be allowed  in the EU, we have seen some ‘amazing’ animals, said to financed by Canadians.  These places are not open to the general public and are secured. Ukraine has some secrets and surprises.

It’s just to easy to see Putin as the bad guy  and Russia the enemy. Russia didn’t move towards NATO, NATO moved towards it, that was the threat that wasn’t going to be ignored. If you prod the bear, it will attack to defend itself.

I understand that Russia wants to preserve its culture and way of life. (It will never except same sex  marriages, children are untouchable, as are the elderly)…So does Ukraine btw but has been hypnotised in thinking that the EU is a vast money tree and they all will live in a castle.Ukraine is a part of greater Russia, it has  little in common with the US or EU.

We have been lied to, Ukraine does not have a hero president, but a puppet, an actor, who like so many will do very well out of this war. They are all busy feathering their nests, the arms manufacturers are making billons, Blackrock is invested, the Bidens are in, Boris trying to get back in, German, French, UK companies on standby, big Jewish money.

The wars going well, America is fighting Russia without losing a life, the brave fighting Ukraines who in the past did the lions share of the USSR fighting are now being used by the Americans.
 

But slowly people are waking up, it’s horrible to admit that you are being used. No one will win a military battle, land will be won and lost, no bodies will come alive, dead is dead and beautiful strong men, women and children  on both sides are gone forever, while the politicians carry out their plans to globalise the world.

I guess if your sold on the idea that Putin is an evil dictator and Zelenskyy is the brave good guy, then you will probably disagree with everything I say, but I have a very balanced family and friends within US, UK and Ukraine, I know the country very well, bottom to top and this is my conclusion.

Clearly Russia were desperate then to resort to miltary action what with losing a politican/economic battle for influence over several European countries. The truth is simple. Both parties are major powers that excert global influence in a variety of untangible ways to the regular person. They compete and one is simply better at it than the other and just because Russia is currently losing is not to excuse them from playing the game nor being innocent. They've been pushing plently of boundaries themselves and war could have happened in another way. Ukraine is a USA puppet? It was also a Russian one. NATO expanded when they said they've wouldn't. Who did they invade?. Did the countries all have their arms twisted or did we/they see a weak Russia(a threat) and realise this was a great chance to strengthen and increase their own security.

The globalists want Russia to be weak is the basic argument for the invasion here otherwise they are using NATO expansion as an excuse to invade an independent country which resources wise should be free to trade with whoever has the best offer. Invasion now won't adjust any effective borders between Russia and NATO so that's just an excuse to wave about. Losing influence/resources because the other side had a better offer should just be accepted as Russia had no right to expect them to stay with Russia. So is Russia itself really under threat? No, it's influences outside it's borders are, but in the same so is every countries.

The Invasion is basically on Russia not accepting loss of control of a resource and they are of a character to inflict damage and in a much more evil way. This is a very understandable reason for war throughout time of course, but today. Russia are in the wrong and in a way just playing into the Wests hands more.

Edited June 9, 2023 by KiwiScot

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

16 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Clearly Russia were desperate then to resort to miltary action what with losing a politican/economic battle for influence over several European countries. The truth is simple. Both parties are major powers that excert global influence in a variety of untangible ways to the regular person. They compete and one is simply better at it than the other and just because Russia is currently losing is not to excuse them from playing the game nor being innocent. They've been pushing plently of boundaries themselves and war could have happened in another way. Ukraine is a USA puppet? It was also a Russian one. NATO expanded when they said they've wouldn't. Who did they invade?. Did the countries all have their arms twisted or did we/they see a weak Russia(a threat) and realise this was a great chance to strengthen and increase their own security.

The globalists want Russia to be weak is the basic argument for the invasion here otherwise they are using NATO expansion as an excuse to invade an independent country which resources wise should be free to trade with whoever has the best offer. Invasion now won't adjust any effective borders between Russia and NATO so that's just an excuse to wave about. Losing influence/resources because the other side had a better offer should just be accepted as Russia had no right to expect them to stay with Russia. So is Russia itself really under threat? No, it's influences outside it's borders are, but in the same so is every countries.

The Invasion is basically on Russia not accepting loss of control of a resource and they are of a character to inflict damage and in a must more evil way. This is a very understandable reason for war throughout time of course, but today. Russia are in the wrong and in a way just playing into the Wests hands more.

Spot on. I'd just add that invading countries definitely won't prevent the spreading of ideas about gay marriage etc. inside Russia either. The only way to stop that is to do what China has done and clamp down on international internet access and file sharing technologies. In other words, totalitarianism.

Edited June 9, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Bort 34]

8 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I've nothing against a multipolar world (and the intrinsic reduction that implies in US hegemony) - would be a good idea - but the other 'poles' must respect human rights and the right to dissent as a bare minimum. Then the 'poles' would be friends with which we can happily compete and on occasion disagree. That excludes both Russia and China as currently governed.  

Antipathy or outright hostility to the US or western governments by some is clearly misplaced if you could not make the same public statements criticising their governments in Russia, China, Iran etc. Be thankful you live in an enlightened society despite all its imperfections and still striving to do better.

 

As the US government continues to lose influence both domestically and internationally, and its economy becomes less dominant, watch how it and its allies gradually slide further into fascism to maintain corporate profit. We're already seeing it in this country. Our "right to dissent" is hamstrung, and continues to weaken.

20% of the UK population lives in poverty - do you think their human rights are being respected?

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

Just watched the film "The Darkest Hour" and there are lots of poignant similarities in the position both the UK and Churchill found themselves and Ukriane and Zelenski today.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

I saw this and thought wow 

There is a lesson there for us all ! 

 

[Sheva 124]

https://www.aol.co.uk/ukrainian-bank-accuses-former-owners-111211081.html
 

Anyone who’s interested in the ‘workings’ of Ukraine, could look closer at this company and it’s former owners. Of course everything is priced to the $

One of the major beneficiaries of the Privat Bank was a club called FC Dnipro, who were a force in Europe before the money ran out and many of their hard core fans went to war. 

This is not an isolated case but the norm. Foreign ‘ investors’ with good connections, especially in the US and EU would do very well……

 

 

 

 

[ricardo 7,401]

Breaking news that Russia has attacked a Wagner base

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by ricardo

[Sheva 124]

 

The stress and fatigue is huge and it’s not just the Russians turning on themselves.

I have family member arriving tomorrow, it’s become intolerable to stay any longer, I know it’s broken him.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

47 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Breaking news that Russia has attacked a Wagner base

 

That's virtually civil war then...

Edit:

It's even more interesting. Prighozin has accused the army of deceiving the Russian public and Vladimir Putin in exagerrating the threat posed by Ukraine and NATO. He's angling to give Putin a way out, pin it on the Russian army, and improve his own position.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/23/wagner-chief-says-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-unjustified-a81609

Edited June 23, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[ricardo 7,401]

https://www.newsweek.com/wagner-leader-declares-war-russian-military-after-alleged-attack-1808765

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

Just keep the pressure on. If the Ukrainians hear about that, you'd think that would be a major morale booster.