Simple question for the KTFers.

[Balham Yellow 0]

At the end of the day we all have the clubs best interests at heart only we believe that those interests will be best served in different ways. Personally I have never been a great fan of NW (yes, even when we won the Championship).  Putting aside all the tactical failings the biggest concern and the one that will have longest term effect on this club is the players we have on our books.  No-one can argue that this is NW''s team/squad, he has been at the helm for 5 years.  For those of you that believe NW should continue in his role are you content with the quality he has brought into the club.  Do you honestly believe that Andy Hughes, Dickson Etuhu, Jason Jarrett, Jurgen Colin, Peter Thorne are good players and that we have progressed in terms of the quality we have in our squad over the last few years?  Remember we are stuck with these individuals for the forseeable future.  For my money NW and his team have shown complete ineptitude in this department, who scouts these players for goodness sake?

[percyvarco 0]

tick follows tock as we wait for a reply.

Maybe difficult as none of the players you quite rightly mention were present in the promotion team  that seems to be the only justification for Worthy''s continuing tenure amongst those who want him to stay.

[Temp the Revelator 0]

Hi Balham, I don''t actually consider myself to be a KTF or a WO - I have a feeling that the club has gone stale and needs something done to revitalise it, but am not yet convinced that sacking Worthy is the way to do that.

To answer your question though, yes I do think the players are good enough.  Average it out over the five years and we have definitely moved forward - quite some distance in fact.  How many times in that period could we boast that many options in central midfield?  Despite current form, most of those players (Etuhu, Hughes, Jarrett, Robinson) were stalwarts of their teams at this level and guaranteed starters, so I don''t think too much criticism can be levelled at Worthy for wanting to sign them.  After all, every player goes through a dip in form at some point in their career.  On previous performances, most of us would have accepted them as part of a squad to play at this level.

Compared to last season, we do appear to have gone backwards, but having been relegated (as most of us expected to be in the first place), this was inevitable really.  I do think some of the posts on this board are extremely unforgiving; this season has seen the worst injuries I can remember at the club for a long time.  Previous seasons have seen us losing most influential players long term, but I struggle to recall a season where we have had so much turbulence in the first team squad through injury - in addition, to coincide with the ever-changing team, key players have either lost or been out of form.  This makes any manager''s job difficult to say the least.  However, this does not mean that I exonerate Worthy of all blame - he has ever been one to make strange selection and substitution decisions and the way our midfield sits on top of the back four must be the way they are being coached, as they have been doing it for all of his reign.  A longer post than I anticipated, but I hope it answers your question!

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

[quote user="Balham Yellow"]At the end of the day we all have the clubs best interests at heart only we believe that those interests will be best served in different ways. Personally I have never been a great fan of NW (yes, even when we won the Championship).  Putting aside all the tactical failings the biggest concern and the one that will have longest term effect on this club is the players we have on our books.  No-one can argue that this is NW''s team/squad, he has been at the helm for 5 years.  For those of you that believe NW should continue in his role are you content with the quality he has brought into the club.  Do you honestly believe that Andy Hughes, Dickson Etuhu, Jason Jarrett, Jurgen Colin, Peter Thorne are good players and that we have progressed in terms of the quality we have in our squad over the last few years?  Remember we are stuck with these individuals for the forseeable future.  For my money NW and his team have shown complete ineptitude in this department, who scouts these players for goodness sake?[/quote]

Sorry Balham I shouldn''t really be answering this as I''m not a KTF (I''m a Les Reasonable). This isn''t a simple question as its not simple and theres more than question.

If you believe that the problems a CR can be answered simply then I think you youself are being a bit simplistic. Its easy to pick out what you believe to be underperforming players and blame the coaching staff and scouts, do you honestly believe that they decide to sign poor players?

As you say you''ve never liked NW, perhaps you''re approaching eveything he does in a negative way and this is clouding any possibility of you being fair.

   

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="A load of squit"]

[quote user="Balham Yellow"]At the end of the day we all have the clubs best interests at heart only we believe that those interests will be best served in different ways. Personally I have never been a great fan of NW (yes, even when we won the Championship).  Putting aside all the tactical failings the biggest concern and the one that will have longest term effect on this club is the players we have on our books.  No-one can argue that this is NW''s team/squad, he has been at the helm for 5 years.  For those of you that believe NW should continue in his role are you content with the quality he has brought into the club.  Do you honestly believe that Andy Hughes, Dickson Etuhu, Jason Jarrett, Jurgen Colin, Peter Thorne are good players and that we have progressed in terms of the quality we have in our squad over the last few years?  Remember we are stuck with these individuals for the forseeable future.  For my money NW and his team have shown complete ineptitude in this department, who scouts these players for goodness sake?[/quote]

Sorry Balham I shouldn''t really be answering this as I''m not a KTF (I''m a Les Reasonable). This isn''t a simple question as its not simple and theres more than question.

If you believe that the problems a CR can be answered simply then I think you youself are being a bit simplistic. Its easy to pick out what you believe to be underperforming players and blame the coaching staff and scouts, do you honestly believe that they decide to sign poor players?

As you say you''ve never liked NW, perhaps you''re approaching eveything he does in a negative way and this is clouding any possibility of you being fair.

   

[/quote]

well it has to be said they have signed poor players....  and players whom were considered poor at their previous championship club....  Anyway Yes I beleive a change in the management team would sort things out in an instant...  and if they didnt we know who to blame for creating such a dire situation in the first place Mr Worthington.

As a football club we are in no way like the state say Southampton are, having to rebuild from scratch.  But someone needs to come in and reaccess the situation, which players are getting games, who is to be offered contracts, what tactics we play, how we do set peices, what attributes in players are valued etc etc..  because at the moment the way things are going, this Hard Work and Workrate long ball management style has gone completely down the pan with our squad of so called better players....

[We need a Manager 0]

I dont think the said players are underperforming  Squity , they are crap and thats the bottom line , crap players signed by an even crappier manager .

[Temp the Revelator 0]

I don''t agree with that Paul, I don''t think these players were considered poor by their previous club - yes, by some fans posting on message boards, maybe, but these players were first team regulars at those clubs; Jarrett helped Wigan to promotion, Robinson was part of Sunderland''s title winning side, Etuhu has been to the play-offs with Preston etc etc.  These players must have had someting about them to be so respected by their manager at the time.  The tendency these days seems to be to judge a player after 10 minutes of their first performance, when very often a player can take 6 months plus to settle down and truly find their form.  Don''t underestimate the impact moving across the country can have on a player, either.  Unfortunately, as a club, this is something we will always suffer from, unlike many others geographically close together.  I would cite Iwan and Doc as good examples of players who have shown their worth once settled in - you could also put Malky in the bracket really.

[Mook 0]

Intelligent observation.

Not.

[We need a Manager 0]

Thats a spot on obsevation , and the sooner some of you wake up and smell the coffee the better for this club .

[gazban 0]

Temp, I must admit Jarrett supposedly played well whilst on loan with Plymouth, so you could argue the manager isnt getting the most from his players. However your wrong about him playing a big part of Wigan promotion as he was injured for almost the entire season.

This season its a mixture of poor players (Hughes), Poor positioning (Charlton) and poor tatics. Er I think thats the manager then! 

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Temp, serious question.  If you don''t think that changing the management is the way to go what do you think needs to be done to change our shocking style of play and results and how long would you give it?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Temp the Revelator"]I don''t agree with that Paul, I don''t think these players were considered poor by their previous club - yes, by some fans posting on message boards, maybe, but these players were first team regulars at those clubs; Jarrett helped Wigan to promotion, Robinson was part of Sunderland''s title winning side, Etuhu has been to the play-offs with Preston etc etc.  These players must have had someting about them to be so respected by their manager at the time.  The tendency these days seems to be to judge a player after 10 minutes of their first performance, when very often a player can take 6 months plus to settle down and truly find their form.  Don''t underestimate the impact moving across the country can have on a player, either.  Unfortunately, as a club, this is something we will always suffer from, unlike many others geographically close together.  I would cite Iwan and Doc as good examples of players who have shown their worth once settled in - you could also put Malky in the bracket really.[/quote]

Jarrett: injured till January then sent on loan to Stoke, played a few towards the end of the season.

   RUMOURED to have had a training ground bust-up with Worthy about training, hence why he doesnt get picked now and was sent on loan.  He would be a FAR better bet than Hughes, and has proven he can play whilst at Plymouth.

Etuhu: did OK under David Moyes but has been a liability ever since.  I remember being impressed by him when they came to carrow road a few years back, we won 3 nil and he looked impressive, thats all he appears to do, he looks impressive.  Preston have not lost in the league since he left.

Robinson.  I dunno, he doesnt appear to do much but he seems to keep it quiet and effective in midfield.  we look a far better team with him in the side.  At least he seems to no where he should be and isnt found in teh wronmg part of the pitch like some others.

The Doc: Good quality Championship centre back..  Never impressed in the premiership as yet.

Iwan as we all no was fat and had an injured foot in his first season for us....   thats the kind of injury which could affect how a footballer plays

[Temp the Revelator 0]

[quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]Temp, serious question.  If you don''t think that changing the management is the way to go what do you think needs to be done to change our shocking style of play and results and how long would you give it?[/quote]

DD - I don''t think you can underestimate the effect that such an unsettled team has had on both performances and results - a settled side would answer many questions for me in terms of both, although now it is confidence that has become the issue!  TBH, I''m not sure what the answer is, I am just not entirely convinced that changing the manager is always the right option.  I have never been entirely convinced by Worthy, and have previously stated my dislike on this very board for Livermore and his methods and past track record.  I''m just glad that the decision doesn''t rest with me!  The priority for me must be getting beyond 51 points for this season - that will ensure we don''t get sucked into a relegation battle.  I still feel that Worthy should be given until the summer to sort it out, after all he has done it before.  All I really know is that SOMETHING needs to change.

[Syteanric 1]

i have asked this question countless times.. "are the KTF happy with the direction the club is going in?" and none have answered it on here...

 This leads me t believe that they arent happy, and are only supporting Worthy on his past glories.... with little hope for the future under him?

jas :)

[Temp the Revelator 0]

The odd thing is, I do not class myself as KTF, yet it seems to be me representing them in this thread!! The other odd thing is that I am normally one who acts on impulse, but for some reason it just doesn''t seem right to discard Worthy at the first sign of trouble.  I know, I know, we weren''t great last season either, but I never had particularly high expectations of the season to be honest, so relegation didn''t come as a surprise.  Maybe that''s a fault of mine, but there it is.

To answer you Jas, no, I am not happy with the direction the club is going in, but I do not believe that the current problems would simply disappear with the sacking of Worthy; there is more wrong than just the manager.  The two issues about the direction of the club and Worthy are not always the same thing.  This could just be a blip in his managerial career, after all.

[Chunky Canary 0]

As you say you''ve never liked NW, perhaps you''re approaching eveything he does in a negative way and this is clouding any possibility of you being fair.

Pot, kettle, black Dicky/Squit? As you are so far up Worthington’s rectum I don''t suppose that you could be accused of the same failing now could you?

   

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Temp the Revelator"]

[quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]Temp, serious question.  If you don''t think that changing the management is the way to go what do you think needs to be done to change our shocking style of play and results and how long would you give it?[/quote]

DD - I don''t think you can underestimate the effect that such an unsettled team has had on both performances and results - a settled side would answer many questions for me in terms of both, although now it is confidence that has become the issue!  TBH, I''m not sure what the answer is, I am just not entirely convinced that changing the manager is always the right option.  I have never been entirely convinced by Worthy, and have previously stated my dislike on this very board for Livermore and his methods and past track record.  I''m just glad that the decision doesn''t rest with me!  The priority for me must be getting beyond 51 points for this season - that will ensure we don''t get sucked into a relegation battle.  I still feel that Worthy should be given until the summer to sort it out, after all he has done it before.  All I really know is that SOMETHING needs to change.

[/quote]

the problem is the way worthy seems to sort it out is by buying more defensive players.  or signing attacking players and making them defend.....

[rieg77 0]

What supporter of the club could say they are happy with the direction the club is going in?? As has been said many times, all true supporters want the very best for this club. Your question is benile and pointless and is obviously ''loaded'' try try and discredit opinions other than your own. The issue we are all debating is what is the best way to get us back on course.

[Balham Yellow 0]

It''s a simple question.  If you don''t want to discuss the point then don''t.  Incidentally, your post makes little or no sense.

 

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

[quote user="Chunky Canary"]

As you say you''ve never liked NW, perhaps you''re approaching eveything he does in a negative way and this is clouding any possibility of you being fair.

Pot, kettle, black Dicky/Squit? As you are so far up Worthington’s rectum I don''t suppose that you could be accused of the same failing now could you?

   

 

[/quote]

It''ll be nice when half term is over.

 

[rieg77 0]

I''m not responding to you Balham - I''m talking to Jas and responding to his ''question'' - apologies for the confusion.

[Balham Yellow 0]

Apologies Rieg.  Misunderstood.

[Mook 0]

Nigel''s Tic tacs or whatever your name is, I am awake, I do smell coffee and I want Nigel out.

Unfortunately that doesn''t make your post any more of a worthwhile read.

[Ken Aries 0]

BENILE, Rieg 77?? Did you mean banal or puerile or juvenile? I was standing by the Benile, as Pink Floyd might have said.

[Tom NCFC 0]

Sorry to be an idiot but what is a KTFer and a WO?

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote user="Tom NCFC"]Sorry to be an idiot but what is a KTFer and a WO?[/quote]

KTF - Keep the faith. People that see nothing wrong with Worthy and the club.

WO - Worthy outer. Self explanatory.

Unfortuanetly there appears to be no middle ground for most people. Someone wrote an interesting piece about a third group who want Worthy out but dont turn it into a witch-hunt, or blame him for all of our faults; recognizing that it is a collection of problems and not just Worthy. A group im in, by the way.

[Tom NCFC 0]

Cheers Trent

[macdougalls perm 0]

Balham Yellow,

I am most certainly not a KTFer, but do you honestly think that your question is fairly phrased. You have deliberately listed his poor signings without a mention of any of the decent signings he has undoubtedly made. To turn it around, do you honestly consider Huckerby, Ashton, Earnshaw, Safri, Robinson, Svensson, Mckenzie etc etc to be poor players? I also want a change of manager but lets have some balance.

[Balham Yellow 0]

Mac,

The reason it is perfectly legitimate to highlight the mistakes is that when all is said and done we are in an awful position with no sign whatsoever of turning things around.  We have lost 15 games this season and conceded more goals than we''ve scored at a time when NW has had more funding at his disposal than the last half dozen Norwich managers put together.   The standard of football at CR is nothing short of dire and the names I mention are a key factor in that.  I appreciate that he has made good signings but he''s made plenty of poor ones too.  Besides Safri never got a game in the Prem when the blind could see that Holt wasn''t good enough, Ashton left the club within twelve months and jury''s out on Robinson and Earnshaw as yet.

[macdougalls perm 0]

BY,

Fair do''s, I totally accept your point that we are in an unnacceptable position at the moment, I just thought that you original post was pretty unbalanced. Apart from that you obviously make a fair point.