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Booing is and always will be tin-pot

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56 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Not abusing you at all my friend.. just think that the "customers" / " supporters" argument is bonkers. I don't know you so I make no judgement.  people support Norwich City, if they feel the custodians of the club are not doing their jobs they are free to express that frustration / annoyance. They are as much a supporter as you and me.

I understand your point Kenny, but it just doesn't follow the meaning of the word. One of the criticisms someone I made earlier was "so you are saying that supporters have to be supportive" without realising what he was the silliness of what he was saying!

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59 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

So if it is ok to be critical of the club and not universally supportive as a supporter, the point at which that is ok becomes subjective and is not in fact a fact like you were making out.

I am simply pointing out what the word means. Nobody booed the team for BK8, they were critical of one action of one member of the management team in a reasonable way with a constructive outcome - it is therefore supportive. I'm surprised you can't see the difference and suspect that it is only because you don't want to.

Please explain to me what you think was measured/ reasonable and constructive about yesterday?

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1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Not abusing you at all my friend

Sorry Kenny - I've just re-read my post to you and it was unnecessarily aggressive. Please accept my apologies. The irony of the fact that I am accusing others of lacking self-restraint does not escape me😳

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Some managers have stated they don’t have a problem with booing and would join in if they could. After a run of results like Norwich have had plus the performance on Saturday what’s the problem? Footballers are paid very handsomely and should be a able to deal with fans voicing a verdict when the whistle goes. 

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1 hour ago, Badger said:

I am simply pointing out what the word means. Nobody booed the team for BK8, they were critical of one action of one member of the management team in a reasonable way with a constructive outcome - it is therefore supportive. I'm surprised you can't see the difference and suspect that it is only because you don't want to.

Please explain to me what you think was measured/ reasonable and constructive about yesterday?

How do you know people were booing the team yesterday? My assumption was the boos were directed at the manager and Webber/board, but I could be wrong.

So criticism is supportive when you think it is? BK8 deal may have been more clear cut but there were plenty who thought not taking the money damaged our chances, I happen to disagree but that was my opinion.

People booing yesterday obviously think doing so sends a message that they hope sees improvement, therefore your definition of supportive from their viewpoint. People booed Hughton and in my opinion they were right to, whether it’s right now to boo the current management setup is entirely subjective.

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2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Some managers have stated they don’t have a problem with booing and would join in if they could. After a run of results like Norwich have had plus the performance on Saturday what’s the problem? Footballers are paid very handsomely and should be a able to deal with fans voicing a verdict when the whistle goes. 

I think its hard to really criticise the booing at the end of the game (the substitutions a different matter), not that I felt the need to myself.

However I dont think how much footballers are paid is relevant- its a thin line between that and people saying celebrities should put up with online abuse because they're famous.

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6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think its hard to really criticise the booing at the end of the game (the substitutions a different matter), not that I felt the need to myself.

However I dont think how much footballers are paid is relevant- its a thin line between that and people saying celebrities should put up with online abuse because they're famous.

It just might help them (if needed) to live in the real world. If you paid £38 for a main course and it’s was awful you wouldn’t tell the waiter it was great and leave a big tip. 

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26 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

It just might help them (if needed) to live in the real world. If you paid £38 for a main course and it’s was awful you wouldn’t tell the waiter it was great and leave a big tip. 

I wouldn't leave a tip at all.

I would complain. However, I wouldn't bray like a donkey or moo like a cow. I don't think I would return to the restaurant. But then I'm not a restaurant supporter, I'm a restaurant customer.

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1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

How do you know people were booing the team yesterday? My assumption was the boos were directed at the manager and Webber/board, but I could be wrong.

So criticism is supportive when you think it is? BK8 deal may have been more clear cut but there were plenty who thought not taking the money damaged our chances, I happen to disagree but that was my opinion.

People booing yesterday obviously think doing so sends a message that they hope sees improvement, therefore your definition of supportive from their viewpoint. People booed Hughton and in my opinion they were right to, whether it’s right now to boo the current management setup is entirely subjective.

See what I mean Ricardo 😉

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1 hour ago, Badger said:

See what I mean Ricardo 😉

See what? I can only assume reading your comment to Ricardo that you are implying something derogatory.

Your argument is completely flawed and I’m done pointing that out. You’re obviously done trying to defend it.

Edited by Monty13

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The team tried but Webber and Farke deserved it. 

It was a shocking performance. Thinking we can pass through a massive, physical and fast Watford team with short, on the deck passes was absolutely ludicrous, stupid beyond belief. Even Man City struggle to do this when they're not at their absolute best. It has got to stop and it's got to change. 

The signings in the summer leave a lot to be desired as well. Webber and Farke had a whole painful season to see that we're kind of lacking in height and power and severely lacking in pace and athleticism compared to the rest of the league. So we sign a small, slow kid to play in the heart of our midfield, a CB who is slow and only 6ft1 and a bunch of unproven younger's who are either strong or quick but not the combination of the two that every other club has.

We needed players like Billing and King, but we wouldn't risk a small amount of debt (that could easily be paid off by the sale of a young player if we went down) So now we're stuck with a new bunch of lovely, nice lads who are too friendly and accepting of defeat with no real athletic ability. If we want to stubbornly carry on like it's pre 2010 and the PL isn't full of super athletes anymore then the club deserves to be booed because they need to wake up and fast. 

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10 hours ago, Monty13 said:

How do you know people were booing the team yesterday?

Err - I heard it?

So criticism is supportive when you think it is? 

Criticism is supportive when it is constructive and designed to help - a parent with a child; a teacher with a student being examples. As I have repeatedly said, I identified a whole series of acceptable methods of expressing dissatisfaction earlier, when you implied that there were none.

 

7 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Your argument is completely flawed and I’m done pointing that out. You’re obviously done trying to defend it.

"There are no so blind as those that will not see."

You claim that Saturday's booing was considered and thought-through constructive criticism. I think that you are deluded in this. You think that writing letters and criticising something that is against the club's stated values is the same as booing hysterically at the players and threatening violence against fellow supporters who stand up for the team are similar actions. I think that you are deluded in this too.

I can however, see that you are not going to acknowledge doubt anymore than your fellow pro-booer who justifies it as a justifiable consequence of roused passions. How it can be both aroused passions and considered is beyond me, but I am sure that neither of you recognise the contradiction, so why bother?

No doubt you also see the booing of taking the knee (and then laughing about it) as a principled stand against Marxism rather than racism, despite the number of times it has been explained by football in general that it is not a political gesture. Regretfully, when opinions are formed without reason, no amount of reasoning will change your mind.

 

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13 hours ago, Badger said:

I am simply pointing out what the word means. Nobody booed the team for BK8, they were critical of one action of one member of the management team in a reasonable way with a constructive outcome - it is therefore supportive. I'm surprised you can't see the difference and suspect that it is only because you don't want to.

Please explain to me what you think was measured/ reasonable and constructive about yesterday?

Is it surprising to you that comparing the fan reaction in a live-action game of football, and a marketing decision announced on social media yields different results?

When the norm at a football game is clapping, singing and cheering for the good bits and for encouragement, booing when we are absolutely ****e feels like a pretty natural opposite end of the spectrum to me? 

I just cannot accept that anyone booing is not a supporter. Just because the word supporter features ‘support’, does not mean the fans have to non-stop clap and cheer at everything on the pitch does it? You’re just blowing up the grammatical side of it to the point it doesn’t make sense.

By your own definition, presumably every time a fan groans or mutters something mid game that person is also not a supporter? I.e. when McLean and Hanley both got pickpocketed on halfway toward the end I definitely passed a few swear words- presumably I’m no longer a supporter either as I didn’t meet your definition in that moment, like the booing at the end (I didn’t boo btw).

No, clearly that’s ridiculous, just because a fan is not positively ‘supporting’ in one brief moment does not make them no longer a supporter of their club.

To me a football team supporter should have the following traits;

- Loyalty to their chosen club

- A desire to want the club to succeed 

- An interest in following the games and club news etc

I don’t see where fans’ booing at the end changes any of the above.

My view was that the fans stayed as behind the team as best as could be expected the whole game but then let their feelings known at the end that it wasn’t good enough. And it really wasn’t, Watford were bang average and the only other side in as poor form as us coming into the game. No goals since the opening 45 minutes of the season, and along come Norwich! 

Honestly I’m pretty shocked that people want to try come at the section of fans for their reaction rather than being deeply concerned by the hot steaming **** of a second half we served up. Fortunately I’m sure the players are far more concerned with the latter.  

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler

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Just now, king canary said:

You've completely lost the plot here. 

Well-reasoned. 👍

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3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Well-reasoned. 👍

Almost as well reasoned as your comparison to domestic violence earlier... 

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Stoke boss Gary Rowett: We deserved the boos

AUGUST 23, 2018 by FOOTBALL PARADISE STAFF REPORTER
 

Stoke boss Gary Rowett felt his players deserved the boos they received at the end of a 3-0 home defeat to Wigan and bemoaned a poor start. 

The Potters are winless this term, and Rowett understands supporters’ concerns.

Following the heavy defeat, Rowett said: “I’m not going to try and justify any of that.

“We got the reaction that we absolutely deserved, I’m not going to absolve myself from that, we deserve to be booed, we deserve the stadium being half empty as we haven’t been good enough.

“I’ve got to say to them (fans) that I can completely understand their frustrations.

“I’m not sure whether you can say it was far worse than lots of games last season, it wasn’t a good game and I don’t think there have been many good performances for a long time.

“For 25 minutes we were excellent. It was fast and attacking, we had opportunities and a goal disallowed that was offside.”

Wigan boss Paul Cook felt his rampant Latics side were fortunate to beat the 10-man Potters.

Will Grigg inspired Cook’s men with a goal in each half, either side of Gavin Massey’s solo strike.

Wigan’s third came from the penalty spot 12 minutes after half-time as Grigg scored his second of the night after Joe Allen tripped Nick Powell before Ashley Williams was sent off for fouling Josh Windass.

But Cook feels his men were lucky, given Stoke’s early chances.

He said: “It was the perfect performance from us, everything has gone our way on the night. I thought Stoke started the game excellent, they put us under pressure and may feel like they could have scored a goal in their spell of pressure.

“We always felt we would have moments in the game and obviously tonight the key moments have gone our way.

“The goals were scored at a good time for us and it ends up being one of those performances where you say ‘yeah it looks good on paper, but I feel we won in a fortunate way’.

“Stoke not scoring early in the game was massive. We’ve conceded two very late goals and people have questioned our defending, but today we could deal with Stoke well.”
 

Interesting take by a manager. 

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1 minute ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Is it surprising to you that comparing the fan reaction in a live-action game of football, and a marketing decision announced on social media yields different results?

I wasn't - I was responding directly to a question. I thought that it was a pretty stupid comparison too but didn't want to give the poster the chance to say that I had ignored his question.

In retrospect, it was a pretty dumb idea to respond as the person clearly wasn't interested in honest debate.

5 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I just cannot accept that anyone booing is not a supporter. Just because the word supporter features ‘support’, does not mean the fans have to non-stop clap and cheer at everything on the pitch does it?

No - you have to be supportive. I don't think booing falls into the category of being "supportive" and feel that is is the opposite - it is destructive and undermining. I can't help what the word means.

With regard being concerned, yes I am, but not completely shocked. I posted before the game

On 18/09/2021 at 10:12, Badger said:

TBH, more nervous than I have been for any game yet this season as we should have a good chance of getting something.

I always get worried in circumstances like this that fans will overreact to a negative result - we are still work in progress and whilst we have to get it right quickly, seeing today as "a must win" is a gross over-simplification.

I know I am biased but, I think my comments before the game were pretty much spot on! 😃 If we are to believe Monty (which I don't),  the booing fans are attacking the management and the board and want them gone - I think that this would be disastrous campaign to start.

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16 minutes ago, king canary said:

Almost as well reasoned as your comparison to domestic violence earlier... 

? You obviously either haven't read it or are deliberately misquoting. For the record, I said,

18 hours ago, Badger said:

Of course, I am not suggesting that the two things are of a similar scale or importance

So you have moved from a total lack of reasoning to dissembling - I'm not finding this conversation very illuminating KC, so I will let you have the last word as it seems to be very important to you 👍

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10 minutes ago, Badger said:

I wasn't - I was responding directly to a question. I thought that it was a pretty stupid comparison too but didn't want to give the poster the chance to say that I had ignored his question.

In retrospect, it was a pretty dumb idea to respond as the person clearly wasn't interested in honest debate.

No - you have to be supportive. I don't think booing falls into the category of being "supportive" and feel that is is the opposite - it is destructive and undermining. I can't help what the word means.

With regard being concerned, yes I am, but not completely shocked. I posted before the game

I know I am biased but, I think my comments before the game were pretty much spot on! 😃 If we are to believe Monty (which I don't),  the booing fans are attacking the management and the board and want them gone - I think that this would be disastrous campaign to start.

Noted on the BK8 comparison - apologies. 

No - you have to be supportive. I don't think booing falls into the category of being "supportive" and feel that is is the opposite - it is destructive and undermining. I can't help what the word means.

Again, when McLean and Hanley both lost possession toward the end of the game, I swore reasonably loudly. Guess I'm not a supporter according to you then? 

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15 hours ago, ricardo said:

It can sometimes remind the powers that be that things are not well and will not be tolerated  much longer. I considered my booing of Hughton an act of support for my club insofar that it helped encourage the directors to sack him.

This. Any booing on saturday in my opinion was primarily a marker to Farke and Webber that what is being produced on the pitch at the moment is not good enough. I guess it could go either way. It could prompt Farke to have another hissy fit and go off in a sulk or it might prompt him to buck his ideas up. Either way the defending is not acceptable and to be honest rarely has been under his watch. Something needs to be done very quickly to address it or once again it will undermine all the elements of our game that are better.

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7 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

The team tried but Webber and Farke deserved it. 

I kind of get the Farke bit, but I struggle to see why Webber deserves boo's for the players on the pitch making individual mistakes. Unless we are deciding, 90 minutes into the NCFC careers of the likes of Kabak and Normann, only a little longer in terms of the others, that none are good enough?

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17 minutes ago, Badger said:

? You obviously either haven't read it or are deliberately misquoting. For the record, I said,

So you have moved from a total lack of reasoning to dissembling - I'm not finding this conversation very illuminating KC, so I will let you have the last word as it seems to be very important to you 👍

Ive also found it quite illuminating. 

For example you've acused Monty of not being interested in honest debate, while also saying he defends fans threatening violence to other fans? However a scab through this thread shows nothing of the sort.

You're becoming one of the largest hypocrites going on this forum. 

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4 minutes ago, king canary said:

Ive also found it quite illuminating. 

For example you've acused Monty of not being interested in honest debate, while also saying he defends fans threatening violence to other fans? However a scab through this thread shows nothing of the sort.

You're becoming one of the largest hypocrites going on this forum. 

I said that I hadn't found it illuminating.

I don't think your scan was very effective. Monty and you have consistently defended fans for booing and in your case, you think the loss of control is justifiable. I don't know if you went to the game but where I was there were several big arguments when fans tried to stand up against the bully boys, with threats flying and people having to be held apart.

But that's ok isn't it KC - football is a passionate game, it's all understandable and justifiable!

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11 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Short break for coffee and reconvene at 10.20hrs? 

Sorry, I was late going on my break - can I come back later?😃

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2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Sorry, I was late going on my break - can I come back later?😃

It’s not that regimented on here! Just pop back when your able. 

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3 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

It’s not that regimented on here! Just pop back when your able. 

Oh good, I like a laissez faire boss!

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27 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Short break for coffee and reconvene at 10.20hrs? 

Yeah coffee's good it's much too early for booze.....

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The biggest mountain we have to climb is therefore  psychological. This is the one area where we as fans can be a positive influence. Defiantly singing On The Ball City when the opposition score, reminds the players to Never Mind The Danger, to keep their heads held high and never give up.

We can all air our grievances in the pub after the match, or express our opinions on social media, to confidently espouse where it all went wrong. But whilst the game is still in play we should continue to sing for the yellow and green until the final whistle. 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/terri-westgate-ncfc-fanzone-column-post-watford-8338432

Obviously she isn't aware of your concept of supportive booing, designed to help and improve the situation eh, Monty! Or perhaps she just thinks it's total nonsense!😃

16 hours ago, Monty13 said:

People booing yesterday obviously think doing so sends a message that they hope sees improvement, therefore your definition of supportive from their viewpoint.

 

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