A couple of inclusivity ideas, feel free to add your own

[Naturalcynic 668]

5 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

That's because the Christian owners in question ARE engaging in discriminatory behaviour. The fact is, they were found to be and were treated accordingly.

This statement from the BHA sums it up tidily. Religious folk are protected for their beliefs provided they don't harm others. If they want to believe the Earth is 6,000 years old, fine, but that's a different kettle of fish.

Christian hotel owners lose appeal against discrimination ruling - British Humanist Association Press Room (cision.com)

Don’t disagree with you at all, but I ask again for examples of where activists have targeted business owners of religions other than Christianity.  I speak as an absolute atheist with no axe to grind, and it wasn’t me that initially raised the question of attitudes towards Christians in this country.  I just find the actions of some on the left to be selective and somewhat hypocritical.

[horsefly 4,315]

5 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Perhaps they are, but you make my point for me.  Activists have deliberately targeted Christian owners of bakeries, guest houses etc so that they can claim offence and discrimination, but give me an example of when the left targeted bakers or hoteliers of other religions who have equally un-woke beliefs (e.g Islam).

There is nothing to stop you or anyone else seeking to take legal action against anyone who uses their religion/beliefs as an excuse to break laws against discrimination. Those laws exist to provide a right for all people in society to be treated with equal respect and fairness. If someone's religious beliefs are such that they refuse to abide by anti-discrimination laws then they have absolutely no right to be trading in the public realm. 

[Herman 9,825]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

If you think the prime minister is a practising Christian you are either profoundly ignorant about Christianity or else about the Prime Minister- same with many in power. They may tribally identify with a particular Christian denomination but all of their words and actions profess obedience to the modern secular mantra. 

Jacob Rees Mogg is a practicing Christian and he's a complete ****.

[Mello Yello 2,303]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

I wonder how Christians are discriminated against?

By not being fed to the Lions?.....

[Naturalcynic 668]

1 minute ago, horsefly said:

There is nothing to stop you or anyone else seeking to take legal action against anyone who uses their religion/beliefs as an excuse to break laws against discrimination. Those laws exist to provide a right for all people in society to be treated with equal respect and fairness. If someone's religious beliefs are such that they refuse to abide by anti-discrimination laws then they have absolutely no right to be trading in the public realm. 

I’m not sufficiently ideologically driven to deliberately try to set up some sort of sting operation against hoteliers or bakers.

[Herman 9,825]

17 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

Agree with this.  having a wife and a couple of kids and just being normal is very much out of fashion. Someone was trying to convince me I should now call myself cisgender. Honestly what is going on with the world 

Poor old whitey. Forever down trodden. 😉

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

2 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Don’t disagree with you at all, but I ask again for examples of where activists have targeted business owners of religions other than Christianity.  I speak as an absolute atheist with no axe to grind, and it wasn’t me that initially raised the question of attitudes towards Christians in this country.  I just find the actions of some on the left to be selective and somewhat hypocritical.

Then you can search for them yourself if it interests you.

However, as we're told this is a "Christian" country, focus will obviously be on them first as there will inevitably be far more of them and their effect will be more severe. So, I'm perfectly happy as an agnostic that the focus is on them first.

[Badger 2,412]

1 minute ago, Mr Angry said:

I’m a Christian but I find it hard to believe that I have the same faith as the right wing Christian Trump supporters in America.

I too am a Christian, but find it hard to recognise the claim that I am discriminated against as a consequence.

Equally, referring to an earlier post, I'm an ex-public schoolboy, and again have never found that to be a source of discrimination against me.

With regard to your original point, I don't really see how they can claim to be Christian either: but using "Christian charity" assume that they have been misled by those with pernicious intent, as some on this message board seem to have been.

[Badger 2,412]

6 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

 I just find the actions of some on the left to be selective and somewhat hypocritical.

... But you've never find some on the right to be selective and somewhat hypocritical? 

Particularly given your inability to provide evidence to previous assertions that you have made, this suggests that your words are driven by prejudice rather than fact.

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

I too am a Christian, but find it hard to recognise the claim that I am discriminated against as a consequence.

Equally, referring to an earlier post, I'm an ex-public schoolboy, and again have never found that to be a source of discrimination against me.

With regard to your original point, I don't really see how they can claim to be Christian either: but using "Christian charity" assume that they have been misled by those with pernicious intent, as some on this message board seem to have been.

Without any research to hand based on the UK, I suspect the bit in bold would probably be true if prevailing social attitudes are measured, but I'm guessing. There's definitely plenty showing that there is stigmatisation against any family set-up that is not a nuclear family, so single parents, single people, childfree people, homosexuals etc. are seen as stigmatised compared to the nuclear model. I can very easily see the same stigma being cast on Christians relative to the non-religious, but I repeat, I am guessing.

Christianity often strikes me as being like Communism in some ways - there's always a complaint that it's never implemented as it should be.

[horsefly 4,315]

1 minute ago, Naturalcynic said:

I’m not sufficiently ideologically driven to deliberately try to set up some sort of sting operation against hoteliers or bakers.

"Sting operation"? From what I remember of the case of the bakers being taken to court, it was simply a case of a gay couple dropping into the shop to arrange for a wedding cake to be made and them being told the bakers wouldn't make one for a same sex marriage because of their christian beliefs. I might be wrong but I can remember any suggestion this was some "sting" operation. 

[Badger 2,412]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Christianity often strikes me as being like Communism in some ways - there's always a complaint that it's never implemented as it should be.

Any system of beliefs that is not totalitarian will encompass a wide variety of views.

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

"Sting operation"? From what I remember of the case of the bakers being taken to court, it was simply a case of a gay couple dropping into the shop to arrange for a wedding cake to be made and them being told the bakers wouldn't make one for a same sex marriage because of their christian beliefs. I might be wrong but I can remember any suggestion this was some "sting" operation. 

Not even relevant if it is. Illegal behaviour exposed and brought to light. What's not to like?

[Uncle Fred 526]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not even relevant if it is. Illegal behaviour exposed and brought to light. What's not to like?

Thought Police telling people what to think and believe. Woke culture = totalitarian 

[Badger 2,412]

6 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I can very easily see the same stigma being cast on Christians relative to the non-religious, but I repeat, I am guessing

It is very difficult to see Christians in the UK as being bearers of stigma. Proclaimed Christians, have provided all our monarchs, most of our Prime Ministers and some of the archbishops of Canterbury.

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Thought Police telling people what to think and believe. Woke culture = totalitarian 

So, do you accept that such ILLEGAL behaviour should be punished or what?

[Badger 2,412]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Thought Police telling people what to think and believe. Woke culture = totalitarian

There are no "Thought Police" - it is just an assertion provided to, and believed by, those that are incapable of said "thought" and prefer instead to rely upon slogan, unjustified allegation and propaganda.

[horsefly 4,315]

19 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not even relevant if it is. Illegal behaviour exposed and brought to light. What's not to like?

Spot on. Indeed I'd happily take part in a sting operation to bring such bigoted lawbreakers to justice. Remember signs like this:

Long since illegal, yet those saying christians should have the right to refuse service to homosexuals are effectively allowing them to post up a sign in their window saying "No Gays".

Edited June 12, 2021 by horsefly

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

29 minutes ago, horsefly said:

There is nothing to stop you or anyone else seeking to take legal action against anyone who uses their religion/beliefs as an excuse to break laws against discrimination. Those laws exist to provide a right for all people in society to be treated with equal respect and fairness. If someone's religious beliefs are such that they refuse to abide by anti-discrimination laws then they have absolutely no right to be trading in the public realm. 

Precisely. Same as doctors who refuse to treat homosexuals / women for whatever reason. If you're not willing to treat everyone to the best of your ability, then you're not good enough at the job. The bus driver in Norwich who refused to drive a bus that was bedecked in rainbow colours to support Pride - good, he can't do his job so sure, he's out on merit.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

This is what happens when you let the non-football lot out of the bag.

they make everyone crazy.

This is why you need to keep politics out of football, because these “politics people” are an absolute borefest.

Inb4 “you are against taking the knee” The politics comments does not relate to taking the knee. I don’t view it as a political message and I don’t care what the players do in this regard. They can do the can can for climate change if they want I care about what goes on when the whistle is blown.

[Uncle Fred 526]

12 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

So, do you accept that such ILLEGAL behaviour should be punished or what?

The ****’s banned any different thoughts to their ideology and that opposition was illegal.

banning independent thought whether you agree with it or not it always a dangerous thing 

[Orly 277]

I would have thought the last 12 months were quite high up on the diversity / inclusivity metrics.

You can't discriminate against anyone if nobody's allowed in at all.

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

The ****’s banned any different thoughts to their ideology and that opposition was illegal.

banning independent thought whether you agree with it or not it always a dangerous thing 

Totally avoided the question, so I will ask again. Yes or no answer, please.

So, do you accept that such ILLEGAL behaviour should be punished or what?

[Uncle Fred 526]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Totally avoided the question, so I will ask again. Yes or no answer, please.

So, do you accept that such ILLEGAL behaviour should be punished or what?

In this case it isn’t a binary answer, the couple deliberately targeted that baker to make a point about their beliefs. If it had been random request for a cake then yes it would have been a straight forward answer 

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

In this case it isn’t a binary answer, the couple deliberately targeted that baker to make a point about their beliefs. If it had been random request for a cake then yes it would have been a straight forward answer 

Well, criminals are usually targeted for illegal behaviour. Would be silly to target law-abiding folks. 😉

If I wanted to snare a shopkeeper for selling booze or fags to underage kids, then I'm not going to go to the off-licence that faithfully follows the laws, am I?

Edited June 12, 2021 by TheGunnShow

[Mr Angry 1,571]

I’m not sure if this is the case that people are thinking about, but the bakers actually won an appeal at the Supreme Court and the activist took it to the European Court of Justice in 2019. I can’t see any further update.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49350891.amp

[Badger 2,412]

12 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

In this case it isn’t a binary answer, the couple deliberately targeted that baker to make a point about their beliefs.

1. It is not a point about their  beliefs - it is out their actions.

2. So you don't think that criminals should be deliberately targeted? Or only those criminals whose crimes you approve of?

[Uncle Fred 526]

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

1. It is not a point about their  beliefs - it is out their actions.

2. So you don't think that criminals should be deliberately targeted? Or only those criminals whose crimes you approve of?

You are being revisionist about this case , their actions come as a result of their beliefs 

They are committed Christians and they were targeted because they were Christians and no other reason 

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

They were targeted as they were engaging in illegal activity.

The notion that people indulging in blatantly illegal activity are persecuted could only be indulged by complete do-gooders, right? 😉

[TheGunnShow 6,006]

28 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

I’m not sure if this is the case that people are thinking about, but the bakers actually won an appeal at the Supreme Court and the activist took it to the European Court of Justice in 2019. I can’t see any further update.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49350891.amp

There's also this, which also went to the Supreme Court, but in this case the Court ruled the other way.

Gay snub Cornish B&B owners lose Supreme Court appeal - BBC News