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Anybody else still think he's looks a really good player and would probably get in our team as the box-to-box over Rupp and McLean? 

I do wonder whether he regrets forcing that move, after we went on to win the title, pinch a year in the Prem and now sit top of the table again.

Shame as I think Farke would really have liked him as a player, and he'd slot right into our current system. 

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Yes still a very good player, but I think he's 32 now. I doubt he can play at this standard for too much longer. Shame he went really.

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1 minute ago, jaberry2 said:

Yes still a very good player, but I think he's 32 now. I doubt he can play at this standard for too much longer. Shame he went really.

 

1 minute ago, jaberry2 said:

Yes still a very good player, but I think he's 32 now. I doubt he can play at this standard for too much longer. Shame he went really.

32. So is Winston Reid and yet he is a 'shrewd' signing and may help them get over the line🤷‍♂️:)  

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1 minute ago, CDMullins said:

His move was a bizarre one. 

Maybe he was telling the truth and he moved up north for hunting and fishing.

I still think it was because he thought Boro had a better chance of promotion, and that he called that one majorly wrong. 

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1 minute ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

 

32. So is Winston Reid and yet he is a 'shrewd' signing and may help them get over the line🤷‍♂️🙂

LORD GIVE ME STRENGTH. If Howson was available on loan, he would also be a 'shrewd' signing for us and can play a number 10 role. But he isnt available.

Edited by jaberry2

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7 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Yes still a very good player, but I think he's 32 now. I doubt he can play at this standard for too much longer. Shame he went really.

Yeah, weren't really suggest we sign him now (Warnock loves him and wouldn't sanction anyway), but rather that he looks good enough to have been a starter for the past 3.5 years under Farke, and would still be in the side now if he'd stayed.

He's a really good all round centre midfielder. 

I suppose my argument is that we never actually replaced him with a player of equal quality if we're talking the box-to-box role that Rupp/McLean play in our current system.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

Yeah, weren't really suggest we sign him now (Warnock loves him and wouldn't sanction anyway), but rather that he looks good enough to have been a starter for the past 3.5 years under Farke, and would still be in the side now if he'd stayed.

He's a really good all round centre midfielder. 

Most certainly and had a good game Saturday. In the reverse fixture he was pretty ineffective though. Warnock certainly likes him and he is a very good player at this level.

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16 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I suppose my argument is that we never actually replaced him with a player of equal quality if we're talking the box-to-box role that Rupp/McLean play in our current system.

🤣😅

Jonny Howson Middlesbrough - Games: 147. Goals: 5

Kenny McLean Norwich - Games: 75. Goals: 5. 

(and 37 of Kenny's games were in the Premier League - all of Howson's were in the Championship)

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14 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

🤣😅

Jonny Howson Middlesbrough - Games: 147. Goals: 5

Kenny McLean Norwich - Games: 75. Goals: 5. 

(and 37 of Kenny's games were in the Premier League - all of Howson's were in the Championship)

This is a very strange post Thirsty Lizard, what is it supposed to illustrate?

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41 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

🤣😅

Jonny Howson Middlesbrough - Games: 147. Goals: 5

Kenny McLean Norwich - Games: 75. Goals: 5. 

(and 37 of Kenny's games were in the Premier League - all of Howson's were in the Championship)

Ahem

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As I said in the match thread-good job he’s forgotten how to shoot from 30 yards.

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27 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

Ahem

Oh groan............................................ 

Do try and keep up. TVB said in his OP - that he thought Howson would still get in our team as a box to box midfielder NOW over McLean and Rupp.  I was comparing Howson's record for his present club with McLean's record for us. 

We (along with Leeds) had Howson for the best part of his career. He left us and we replaced him with someone who at the present time is better, i.e McLean. 

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57 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

This is a very strange post Thirsty Lizard, what is it supposed to illustrate?

I think you know very well, but I'll spell it out for you.

At the present time McLean is a much better option than Howson (and the fact that Howson just happened to have a good game on Saturday doesn't change that fact). 

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9 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I think you know very well, but I'll spell it out for you.

At the present time McLean is a much better option than Howson (and the fact that Howson just happened to have a good game on Saturday doesn't change that fact). 

And how does this data support that....

 

Jonny Howson Middlesbrough - Games: 147. Goals: 5

Kenny McLean Norwich - Games: 75. Goals: 5. 

 

I don't know "very well" and would like you to try and spell it out.

Unless you are doing something incredibly stupid and comparing their goal tallies, but I'm convinced that you wouldn't be that stupid, surely? Surely not?

Because you wouldn't want anybody to, I dunno, do something like this....

Ian Crook - Games 418, Goals 24

Bradley Johnson - Games 142, Goals 22

To make you realise how utterly ridiculous doing that would be to this debate?

You aren't that stupid, surely?

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23 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I was comparing Howson's record for his present club with McLean's record for us. 

You are judging a centre midfielder by nothing other than goals, which in my view makes you incredibly dim.

Waiting for your stats based argument explaining why Chris Wood is a better forward than Robert Firmino, because he must be right? Based on the entire depth of your analytical ability and critical thinking, the goals column says so.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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1 hour ago, jaberry2 said:

LORD GIVE ME STRENGTH. If Howson was available on loan, he would also be a 'shrewd' signing for us and can play a number 10 role. But he isnt available.

Easy tiger. Just having a little josh with you. You know, pulling your leg and all that. You ought to try it sometime..............

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1 minute ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Easy tiger. Just having a little josh with you. You know, pulling your leg and all that. You ought to try it sometime..............

Thanks and noted. I will resume normal business now then 🙂

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2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You are judging a centre midfielder by nothing other than goals, which in my view makes you incredibly dim.

Waiting for your stats based argument explaining why Chris Wood is a better forward than Robert Firmino, because he must be right? Based on the entire depth of your analytical ability and critical thinking, the goals column says so.

I read Thirsty's reply as a comeback to your comment about box-to-box midfielders. Crook wasn't that but Bradley Johnson was. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I read Thirsty's reply as a comeback to your comment about box-to-box midfielders. Crook wasn't that but Bradley Johnson was. 

Firmino and Wood are both centre forwards though aren't they. 

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2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Firmino and Wood are both centre forwards though aren't they. 

 I was responding to your specific 'box-to-box' comment. I would say that we have replaced (with a better player in McLean) Howson. You don't think we have, that's fair enough. It's life

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15 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

 I was responding to your specific 'box-to-box' comment. I would say that we have replaced (with a better player in McLean) Howson. You don't think we have, that's fair enough. It's life

Fair enough, but yes I disagree.

So if we're judging goals from last couple of seasons then, which is what you and Thirsty Lizard seem to be judging on in the absence of any other commentary, analysis, or data whatsoever, then it goes in order of quality...

  1. McLean
  2. Johnson
  3. Howson
  4. Rupp

I'll happily disagree, as I think its a silly methodology. Howson by far the best at winning the ball back, and carrying the ball, a leader by example, captain of Leeds in his early twenties, and frankly put in the level of performance Saturday that none of the rest are capable of. Didn't lose a single midfield battle with Rupp all game, and wouldn't have lost one against McLean either. 

He's the one player that we've sold that I miss, other than those who we got 'can't refuse' offers for. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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If he had stayed with us, there's no doubt he'd be in or around the first XI, on his day one of the best midfielders that has played for us for all round ability I would say. That said, he is also in the latter days of his career and not the player he once was. I'm looking forward to seeing what Sorensen can add in the middle of the park given how well he performed out of position on the left.

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28 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Fair enough, but yes I disagree.

So if we're judging goals from last couple of seasons then, which is what you and Thirsty Lizard seem to be judging on in the absence of any other commentary, analysis, or data whatsoever, then it goes in order of quality...

  1. McLean
  2. Johnson
  3. Howson
  4. Rupp

I'll happily disagree, as I think its a silly methodology. Howson by far the best at winning the ball back, and carrying the ball, a leader by example, captain of Leeds in his early twenties, and frankly put in the level of performance Saturday that none of the rest are capable of. Didn't lose a single midfield battle with Rupp all game, and wouldn't have lost one against McLean either. 

He's the one player that we've sold that I miss, other than those who we got 'can't refuse' offers for. 

No, you don't know that, but it suits your argument.

I didn't say that was what I was judging him on. I said that was what I understood Thirsty's comment to be referring to. I have said I believe McLean is a better player than Howson (and I also think Howson was a good player for us btw) . The goals scored stat, by both Howson and McLean, puts the Mayor ahead, but you don't think that even brings McLean up to be the equal of Howson. Again, your opinion, no problem. 

I believe McLean has equal leadership quality's (I say that , because it has been said that he has a big influence in the dressing room, whereas it used to be said that Howson was a 'quiet' lad). McLean does win the ball back, and I would say he is more effective in our attacking play than Howson was. Again my opinion. Every time I have watched Middlesboro, Howson has been ineffective and sometimes anonymous, and sometimes he has been playing Right Back which may lend itself to being multi talented (a la Sorensen) but doesn't lend it self to someone who is indispensable in the midfield . Saturday was easily the best game I have seen him play for Boro (and it happened to be against his old team 😞 ). He looked good in a team that was set up not to lose, but I would question how outstanding he would be in a team that was set up to win a game. I've not seen it in many Boro games. He was good but for a quarter of the game, he couldn't wield that influence to win the game against 10 men  could he?

I appreciate that you are referring to Howson staying here for the last few years instead of leaving, but you have used his performance from Saturday as a reason to back that up, whereas it was, a rare 'good' performance from him. I am comparing Howson then with McLean now, and still think Kenny is better. You think McLean isn't even Howson's equivalent

For the record, I liked Howson when he was here (and scored the best goal I have ever seen a Norwich player score) , but to say that McLean doesn't even match Howson is where we will differ.

 

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I thought Howson moved because he wanted to move his family back up north, rather than leave us for football reasons? Plus didn't we get £6m for him or something? 

He had a decent game on Saturday because we let him. Good player but he often went missing if he was up against a physical midfield. Maclean is the much better current option.

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Howson had a good game against us on Saturday but we had the same midfield of Skipp and Rupp when we beat them 1-0 and both our midfielders comfortably won the battle against Howson that day and both played better than Howson that day.

So TvB claiming Howson wouldn't have lost a midfield battle against Mclean and didn't against Rupp ignores the fact he already lost plenty in the earlier fixture vs Rupp.

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Howson is still a very good player and IMO would get plenty of game time in this Norwich side currently. Farke would like him.

One of my personal fave's actually. Gutted when he left. 

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