New Tory Leader

[Yellow Fever 3,852]

1 minute ago, dylanisabaddog said:

😱

I don't say I agree with him but I can see (as per BB) the 'opening' over zealous or reactionary or idealistic environmental policies can bring.  

[Creative Midfielder 2,004]

6 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Sunak’s attempt to get morons to vote for him has failed. He has gone from - 25% to - 45% in the popularity ratings.

Hadn't seen that but very well deserved slump for a PM who looks and sounds worse every time he says anything.

He obviously got something of a free pass initially following hard of the heels of Johnson and Truss - I imagine all of us, even those of us that despise theTories, assumed that he couldn't be as bad as those two.

But whilst he hasn't quite got there yet, he has clearly been terrible and getting worse, and with about a year to go I think he still has a decent chance to grasp the title of our worse ever Prime Minister - if he just puts a bit more effort in.

 

[Creative Midfielder 2,004]

40 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I don't say I agree with him but I can see (as per BB) the 'opening' over zealous or reactionary or idealistic environmental policies can bring.  

Sorry YF, I very rarely significantly disagree with anything you post but what on earth was over zealous, reactionary or idealist about tthe 2030 petrol/diesel car policy???

Sunak reversing that was an utterly brain dead decision in an attempt to win some cheap political points by damaging our economy and our climate change efforts - the fact that it has been roundly condemned by the car manufacturers and investment banks as well as climate activists should make that obvious.

Whether in the short term the effect is positive or negative for Sunak (seems it depends which poll you believe) I very much doubt come election time it will do him any good. I would love to see an election dominated by environmental issues but it just isn't going to happen and stupid tinkering like the above and cancelling fantasy taxes will be long forgotten amongst the multitude of real problems we have and which Sunak is totally failing to address.

Post Brexit, IMO we will revert more back to norm next time and the election will be fought primarily on the economy as they almost always have been in the past and no amount of smoke and mirrors is going hide the Tories appalling 13 year economic record (or the number of people losing their homes due to high interest rates, or that our rivers and coastal waters are full of sh!t and chemicals, or that our public services are in crisis, or that schools and hospitals are literally falling down  etc, etc, etc).

Edited September 28, 2023 by Creative Midfielder

[Herman 9,865]

3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

 

 

HS2 is woke too according to the Sun. 

[Yellow Fever 3,852]

19 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Sorry YF, I very rarely significantly disagree with anything you post but what on earth was over zealous, reactionary or idealist about tthe 2030 petrol/diesel car policy???

Sunak reversing that was an utterly brain dead decision in an attempt to win some cheap political points by damaging our economy and our climate change efforts - the fact that it has been roundly condemned by the car manufacturers and investment banks as well as climate activists should make that obvious.

Whether in the short term the effect is positive or negative for Sunak (seems it depends which poll you believe) I very much doubt come election time it will do him any good. I would love to see an election dominated by environmental issues but it just isn't going to happen and stupid tinkering like the above and cancelling fantasy taxes will be long forgotten amongst the multitude of real problems we have and which Sunak is totally failing to address.

Post Brexit, IMO we will revert more back to norm next time and the election will be fought primarily on the economy as they almost always have been in the past and no amount of smoke and mirrors is going hide the Tories appalling 13 year economic record (or the number of people losing their homes due to high interest rates, or that our rivers and coastal waters are full of sh!t and chemicals, or that our public services are in crisis, or that schools and hospitals are literally falling down  etc, etc, etc).

The 2030 to 2035 'shift' was a forgone conclusion ever since the EU decided those dates (Yes - we follow not lead these days post Brexit - decisions get take elsewhere especially in smaller markets - forfeited 'sovereignty'). All the car manufacturers expected it (despite noises off for good PR). I'm actually amazed its taken a year or more longer to fall out than it did! 

That said, it will make little actual difference if electric vehicles can come of age!

My actual concern, heightened by the HS2 debacle, is that the UK hasn't got a Scooby of a chance to put in place the electric infrastructure needed to power all these vehicles, heat pumps and so on unless we have a change in attitude to building these quickly and promptly! Pylons, solar farms, wind farms, nuclear etc. Tory nimbies (and unworldly environmentalists) be warned!

Edited September 28, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[Nuff Said 5,255]

20 minutes ago, Herman said:

HS2 is woke too according to the Sun. 

Laugh or cry? Some days it’s hard to decide.

[Barbe bleu 837]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

Yes Barbe, the bad guys in all of this is JSO. 

Not bad people at all but they have to learn when they are doing more harm than good.

[Fen Canary 902]

On 27/09/2023 at 10:14, benchwarmer said:

Our Buddhist Home Secretary says multiculturalism isn't working.  Sums it up really.

 

What does her religion have to do with her political opinions? Or are you suggesting that her ethnicity means she shouldn’t have opinions of her own, and that all British citizens that may have different heritage from the white majority should think and act as a homogeneous group? Why shouldn’t the children of immigrants be allowed to have a negative view of the nations current immigration policies? Lumping people together solely by their background or skin colour used to be the actions of the far right, now it seems a tactic of the middle class left as well 

[Herman 9,865]

7 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

What does her religion have to do with her political opinions? Or are you suggesting that her ethnicity means she shouldn’t have opinions of her own, and that all British citizens that may have different heritage from the white majority should think and act as a homogeneous group? Why shouldn’t the children of immigrants be allowed to have a negative view of the nations current immigration policies? Lumping people together solely by their background or skin colour used to be the actions of the far right, now it seems a tactic of the middle class left as well 

A Mauritian, of Indian/African heritage and Buddhist religion, holding a post as one of the Great Offices of State, Home Secretary, in a cabinet lead by a Hindu of Indian/African heritage saying multiculturalism isn't working? Shame it worked well for that horrible ****.

[Fen Canary 902]

26 minutes ago, Herman said:

A Mauritian, of Indian/African heritage and Buddhist religion, holding a post as one of the Great Offices of State, Home Secretary, in a cabinet lead by a Hindu of Indian/African heritage saying multiculturalism isn't working? Shame it worked well for that horrible ****.

You didn’t answer my question though. Irrespective of whether you agree with her opinion or not, do you think children of immigrants should be allowed to have a negative view of current immigration policies (or even immigration itself) or should they effectively be barred from holding those opinions due to their heritage? Should all immigrant communities think, vote and act as a homogeneous bloc, irrespective of their experiences and upbringing? 

[Herman 9,865]

14 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

You didn’t answer my question though. Irrespective of whether you agree with her opinion or not, do you think children of immigrants should be allowed to have a negative view of current immigration policies (or even immigration itself) or should they effectively be barred from holding those opinions due to their heritage? Should all immigrant communities think, vote and act as a homogeneous bloc, irrespective of their experiences and upbringing? 

I think they should have a bit of empathy with new migrants and not let the crap, herself and her parents more than likely went through, happen to others. I think her Enoch Powell words say a great deal about her ignorance of her and this country's recent history.

[Fen Canary 902]

10 minutes ago, Herman said:

I think they should have a bit of empathy with new migrants and not let the crap, herself and her parents more than likely went through, happen to others. I think her Enoch Powell words say a great deal about her ignorance of her and this country's recent history.

So you don’t think children of immigrants should be able to hold views critical of immigration? You believe they should all think and act the same way as others of the same ethnicity? Thanks for clearing that up, that’s what I was asking

[Yellow Fever 3,852]

52 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

You didn’t answer my question though. Irrespective of whether you agree with her opinion or not, do you think children of immigrants should be allowed to have a negative view of current immigration policies (or even immigration itself) or should they effectively be barred from holding those opinions due to their heritage? Should all immigrant communities think, vote and act as a homogeneous bloc, irrespective of their experiences and upbringing? 

Of course they can Fen but equally we can think of them as hypocrits.

I see even Sunak has publicly disagreed with Braverman on her multicultural comments 

[Herman 9,865]

41 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

So you don’t think children of immigrants should be able to hold views critical of immigration? You believe they should all think and act the same way as others of the same ethnicity? Thanks for clearing that up, that’s what I was asking

I think it's possible to have views and concerns on immigration, even as the daughter of immigrants, without resorting to blatant bigotry and hypocrisy.

[Well b back 3,310]

Had we not have brought immigrants into the NHS over the last few months, the NHS would have been totally in free fall.

[Well b back 3,310]

54 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

So you don’t think children of immigrants should be able to hold views critical of immigration? You believe they should all think and act the same way as others of the same ethnicity? Thanks for clearing that up, that’s what I was asking

But what if the leader of your party disagrees with those opinions, and despite clearly not having the speech cleared by the PM, going ahead with it for your own political gain is a bit naughty. Her speech was nothing todo with U.K. opinion or policy, it was aimed at the 300,000 idiots who vote for the Tory leaders. The same ones that gave us PM Truss.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66948132

[Fen Canary 902]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

But what if the leader of your party disagrees with those opinions, and despite clearly not having the speech cleared by the PM, going ahead with it for your own political gain is a bit naughty. Her speech was nothing todo with U.K. opinion or policy, it was aimed at the 300,000 idiots who vote for the Tory leaders. The same ones that gave us PM Truss.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66948132

That’s a different argument though regarding party discipline, if she’s gone against the PM that’s for him to sort accordingly.

My main point was that many on here talk of her religion and ethnicity when criticising her views on immigration, implying that her parents being born abroad somehow disqualifies her from being allowed to have that opinion and that she’s guilty of going against her group as it were. Expecting all those belonging to an ethnic minority to think and act the exact same way regardless of upbringing and the economic and social situation of the country when they came of age I think is incredibly racist personally, reducing people to a stereotype rather than individuals with agency. Should I have the same political views as my parents who are the same ethnicity, even though we obviously started our working lives in completely different circumstances? If not why should children of immigrants be expected to do the same? 

[Well b back 3,310]

21 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

That’s a different argument though regarding party discipline, if she’s gone against the PM that’s for him to sort accordingly.

My main point was that many on here talk of her religion and ethnicity when criticising her views on immigration, implying that her parents being born abroad somehow disqualifies her from being allowed to have that opinion and that she’s guilty of going against her group as it were. Expecting all those belonging to an ethnic minority to think and act the exact same way regardless of upbringing and the economic and social situation of the country when they came of age I think is incredibly racist personally, reducing people to a stereotype rather than individuals with agency. Should I have the same political views as my parents who are the same ethnicity, even though we obviously started our working lives in completely different circumstances? If not why should children of immigrants be expected to do the same? 

But if she would have been in charge, would her parents have been allowed in ? Had she had her way ?. 
Maybe I am missing something.

[Fen Canary 902]

26 minutes ago, Well b back said:

But if she would have been in charge, would her parents have been allowed in ? Had she had her way ?. 
Maybe I am missing something.

Probably not, but times change. Once upon a time everybody in the Empire was a British Subject, however you wouldn’t today offer citizenship and the right to live in the UK to everybody in the Commonwealth. Just because something benefitted her parents doesn’t mean she has to still support it today simply because of her ethnicity.

My parents benefitted greatly from Thatcher selling the council houses, and indirectly it helped me too as I grew up in a house they then owned, however I still think it was a terrible policy. Just because Braverman has benefitted personally doesn’t mean she has to agree the policy was correct.

I also hate defending Braverman as I think she’s largely useless

Edited September 28, 2023 by Fen Canary

[Herman 9,865]

I fully endorse this list.

 

[Herman 9,865]

Sunak is a small idea politician. Trivial and very tiresome. 

[Yellow Fever 3,852]

Sunak does have sesne of humor.

Ouch!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sunak-joke-truss-hancock-johnson-lobby-b2420604.html

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Eunak must have a sense of humour. Look at his cabinet.

[benchwarmer 625]

On 28/09/2023 at 18:14, Fen Canary said:

What does her religion have to do with her political opinions? Or are you suggesting that her ethnicity means she shouldn’t have opinions of her own, and that all British citizens that may have different heritage from the white majority should think and act as a homogeneous group? Why shouldn’t the children of immigrants be allowed to have a negative view of the nations current immigration policies? Lumping people together solely by their background or skin colour used to be the actions of the far right, now it seems a tactic of the middle class left as well 

She's a prime example of how multiculturalism IS working.  Now she wants to throw it under the bus.

As the old song goes "The working class can kiss my ar se/I've got the foreman's job at last".

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by benchwarmer

[TheGunnShow 6,106]

9 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

I'd have thought she was a prime example of how multiculturalism IS working.  Now it looks as though she wants to throw it under the bus.

As the old song goes "The working class can kiss my ar se/I've got the foreman's job at last".

 

Exactly. The fact we have the leadership we have right now either shows that it does work, or we send them all back to Rwanda. 😉

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Exactly. The fact we have the leadership we have right now either shows that it does work, or we send them all back to Rwanda. 😉

Eunak will no doubt say it was Churchillian. Personally I think it was reptillian.

[Herman 9,865]

"We believe you should have the right to run over AND poison your children with your cars." Vote Conservative.

[Fen Canary 902]

4 hours ago, benchwarmer said:

I'd have thought she was a prime example of how multiculturalism IS working.  Now it looks as though she wants to throw it under the bus.

As the old song goes "The working class can kiss my ar se/I've got the foreman's job at last".

 

But on the other hand, the fighting in Leicester between Hindus and Muslim youths, or the racism on display towards the Asian shopkeepers by the black community in Peckham this year shows that in some areas there has been a lack of integration between certain groups. 

[Yellow Fever 3,852]

11 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

But on the other hand, the fighting in Leicester between Hindus and Muslim youths, or the racism on display towards the Asian shopkeepers by the black community in Peckham this year shows that in some areas there has been a lack of integration between certain groups. 

Or between certain football fans ?

Apparently there was some trouble today between City ad Brum fans off Clarance Rd.

[Herman 9,865]

I think most of us will enjoy these leaks. They're a bit of a mess.