New Tory Leader

[Sheva 123]

Let’s not forget….

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/10/nadhim-zahawi-admits-taxpayers-electricity-stables

[Herman 9,765]

🤨

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Sheva said:

Let’s not forget….

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/10/nadhim-zahawi-admits-taxpayers-electricity-stables

I expect the state to pay for MPs homes in London. Well up to an accepted figure anyway. Rent, mortgage, food , energy (all up to a certain amount).

But they can repay twice the amount they fiddle or resign. No excuses, no forgetful moments, no overlooks.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

Perhaps it's easier to just assume all the Tories are playing fast and loose with the rules, pigs in s h i t, and just ask the few honest ones to step forward.

That's how it seems to me. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[Herman 9,765]

The second point was used quite a lot by the tories.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

The second point was used quite a lot by the tories.

Does that mean that all the Tory ministers and MPs will have to apologise for (accidentally?) misleading parliament, again 🤔 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Now its being questioned whether he wasunder investigation by HMRC while he was Chancellor.

[Herman 9,765]

 

 

[sonyc 5,519]

22 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

 

Always felt the UK were so slow at the outset to bring in sanctions. And now we have Johnson talking up and urging weapons to Ukraine. Irony upon irony.

Now this just appears a story (and maybe one that won't ever fully emerge?) rather than something more major, a crisis even. 

Guess money not only talks but it also is very good at keeping things quiet!

Thanks for the share of this shocking story. I had no idea (of course, like many).

 

[Herman 9,765]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

Always felt the UK were so slow at the outset to bring in sanctions. And now we have Johnson talking up and urging weapons to Ukraine. Irony upon irony.

Now this just appears a story (and maybe one that won't ever fully emerge?) rather than something more major, a crisis even. 

Guess money not only talks but it also is very good at keeping things quiet!

Thanks for the share of this shocking story. I had no idea (of course, like many).

 

No worries. It looks to be a story far worse than Zahawi's tax dodging but highly likely to not get talked about or fully looked into. There seems to be a lot of these stories about. The children disappearing in Brighton, the ONS completely ballsing up their figures (not just a small error), Johnson going to Ukraine etc etc. Like the sewage still being pumped into our rivers it's a never ending with this lot. (Now it's Philp's turn today to pretend everything is fine.)

[sonyc 5,519]

31 minutes ago, Herman said:

No worries. It looks to be a story far worse than Zahawi's tax dodging but highly likely to not get talked about or fully looked into. There seems to be a lot of these stories about. The children disappearing in Brighton, the ONS completely ballsing up their figures (not just a small error), Johnson going to Ukraine etc etc. Like the sewage still being pumped into our rivers it's a never ending with this lot. (Now it's Philp's turn today to pretend everything is fine.)

Evan Davies asked yesterday on his evening programme whether the UK was facing more sleaze...being uncovered or whether journalism was better. No answers given or conclusions anyway.

Our appetite for more trust damaging stories has been reset I think. Like your sewage point it is a metaphor. So much of it that stuff just merges and submerges. In the end one is exhausted by sleaze and corruption. Like ever though, us working folk have our football and our betting to keep us occupied.  We have no need to worry. Just take our medicine, our self medication.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Evan Davies asked yesterday on his evening programme whether the UK was facing more sleaze...being uncovered or whether journalism was better. No answers given or conclusions anyway.

Our appetite for more trust damaging stories has been reset I think. Like your sewage point it is a metaphor. So much of it that stuff just merges and submerges. In the end one is exhausted by sleaze and corruption. Like ever though, us working folk have our football and our betting to keep us occupied.  We have no need to worry. Just take our medicine, our self medication.

Some time ago we had some discussions on here about corruption here and elsewhere. I was of the (informed) opinion  that corruption here was also common  but just less seen or different (I could say accepted) than what may be more visible elsewhere.

I see nothing within the present government to change my mind. It's only when they get caught hand in the cookie jar it becomes plain. Money talks (and walks). 

[horsefly 4,300]

Looking forward to PMQs tomorrow. My prediction for Starmer's first question: "When precisely did the PM become aware that Nadhim Zahawi had paid a fine as part of his multi-million pound settlement with HMRC after he was found "careless" in failing to pay his due tax". Any answer from Sunak will invite his condemnation. If Sunak says only very recently then Starmer can follow up with the question "Why have you not instantly sacked him for not revealing this crucial information before you appointed him to your cabinet?". If Sunak quotes a date before he appointed Zahawi to his cabinet then Starmer can ask, "Why did you appoint him to cabinet knowing that HMRC had found him culpably negligent in failing to pay millions in taxes". Slam dunk for Starmer tomorrow methinks.

[benchwarmer 625]

Headline of the Day goes to the Mirror: "The Only Way Is Ethics".

[Sheva 123]

And up he pops again!………

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-minister-nadhim-zahawi-pockets-25457511

 

 

 

 

[Herman 9,765]

2 hours ago, Sheva said:

And up he pops again!………

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-minister-nadhim-zahawi-pockets-25457511

 

 

 

 

Someone is making sure he is thrown out by the back of his pants. Boris's gang of reprobates definitely on maneuvers.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Herman

[horsefly 4,300]

A call to James O'Brien from an ex-civil servant that is very worthwhile listening to. It shows the alarming extent to which corruption has become normalised within government:

 

[horsefly 4,300]

Hurrah! We can tick another of those promised (Johnson) "40 new hospitals" off the list, as Kings Lynn's Queen Elizabeth gets a substantial rebuild: 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/queen-elizabeth-hospital-king-s-lynn-s-crumbling-hospital-resembles-building-site-as-rebuild-delays-persist/ar-AA16HSKm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b4350a49985e466ea5e1f54d9e644c15

[horsefly 4,300]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/at-least-24-civil-servants-involved-in-complaints-against-dominic-raab/ar-AA16L2f3?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=19b8b6e1ff11438bbda4267a6189b3cc

At least ’24 civil servants involved in complaints against Dominic Raab’

Dominic Raab has reportedly been the subject of formal bullying complaints by at least 24 civil servants. 

Eight formal allegations have been levelled against the Deputy Prime Minister and are being investigated by senior lawyer Adam Tolley KC.

But The Guardian says all but two of those complaints involve multiple accusers, with a number of Mr Raab’s private office staff from his time as foreign secretary believed to have made submissions.

The newspaper said the total number of complainants is thought to be at least two dozen, though it could number more than 30.

Mr Raab said he is “always mindful” of his behaviour but makes “no apologies for having high standards” when asked whether he has changed how he deals with others.

I look forward to Adam Tolley KC saying to Raab, "I make no apologies for having high standards in finding you to be an unconscionable  bully who must resign from government for your unacceptable behaviour"

[sonyc 5,519]

I thought that Raab might be the first to leave the government but I now think it could be Zahawi - or perhaps a double sacking on the same day? Chance for Sunak to do a reshuffle.

Ryanair tweeted this yesterday😅

As for Sunak...he is like Johnson in a smarter suit isn't he? Johnson also never made any decisions on sleaze (though on day to day decisions he U turned again and again).

 

[horsefly 4,300]

30 minutes ago, sonyc said:

As for Sunak...he is like Johnson in a smarter suit isn't he? Johnson also never made any decisions on sleaze (though on day to day decisions he U turned again and again).

Absolutely! The Zahawi situation is actually very simple. Either he did not disclose to Sunak information about his fine from HMRC, in which case he should be sacked, or he did disclose the information that HMRC declared him culpably negligent for avoiding tax (which is what they mean by "careless") and should never have even been considered for a cabinet position at all. There is no need to wait for the results of some irrelevant inquiry, he should be dismissed immediately given he doesn't have the decency to resign.

It was obvious from the very beginning that Sunak's promise of a government of "integrity and accountability" was a total sham from the second he appointed Braverman as Home Secretary within a week of her having been sacked for a breach of the ministerial code.

Same old Tories!

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Why don't they just sack him and been done with? By the end of next week, it will all be forgotten about as another wnaker takes his place.

[Barbe bleu 826]

32 minutes ago, horsefly said:

HMRC declared him culpably negligent for avoiding tax (which is what they mean by "careless") 

'Careless' appears to be the official term (see below)  I've seen reports that the penalty was 30%.  In some ways that is an unhelpful number as it could be levied in repeat of various levels of what you term 'culpability'.  

Reports seem to suggest that zahawi was prompted to make a correction. With that in mind in terms of how officials regard this we can say with some certainty given the levy that they don't think he took reasonable care but also that they don't think he deliberately sought to deceive or that there was any concealment

Behaviour	Unprompted disclosure	Prompted disclosure
Reasonable care	No penalty	No penalty
Careless	0-30%	15-30%
Deliberate	20-70%	35-70%
Deliberate and concealed	30 – 100%	50-100%

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

7 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

'Careless' appears to be the official term (see below)  I've seen reports that the penalty was 30%.  In some ways that is an unhelpful number as it could be levied in repeat of various levels of what you term 'culpability'.  

Reports seem to suggest that zahawi was prompted to make a correction. With that in mind in terms of how officials regard this we can say with some certainty given the levy that they don't think he took reasonable care but also that they don't think he deliberately sought to deceive or that there was any concealment

Behaviour	Unprompted disclosure	Prompted disclosure
Reasonable care	No penalty	No penalty
Careless	0-30%	15-30%
Deliberate	20-70%	35-70%
Deliberate and concealed	30 – 100%	50-100%

There was an ex-HMRC now tax-consultant on the box a few days ago  - think it was SKY.

If I recall he inferred (this is a precis) that any penalty would also reflect how 'helpful' you might be to correct an 'error'. 20% if you just put your hand up and got on with it. 30% more to the top end. Anyway make of that what you will.

I note all and any political commentator on all the channels think he's toast. No way out.

The real question is why Sunak dithers.

[Barbe bleu 826]

Just now, Yellow Fever said:

There was an ex-HMRC now tax-consultant on the box a few days ago  - think it was SKY.

If I recall he inferred (this is a precis) that any penalty would also reflect how 'helpful' you might be to correct an 'error'. 20% if you just put your hand up and got on with it. 30% more to the top end. Anyway make of that what you will.

I note all and any political commentator on all the channels think he's toast. No way out.

The real question is why Sunak dithers.

I'm not sure he'll go, can't see him going willingly and sunak might think  'challenger 2' is a good response to accusations of being a ditherer and one that allows him to move the narrative onto the so called 'big calls'.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

As for Sunak...he is like Johnson in a smarter suit isn't he? Johnson also never made any decisions on sleaze (though on day to day decisions he U turned again and again).

 

Absolutely spot on - on both counts, and I'd like to throw in a third similarity - they both showed incredibly poor judgement in appointing their cabinets resulting in us enduring the fall out from having many incompetents or crooks (both in some cases!) in ministerial positions that they should never have got anywhere near, and I think that is a ridculously kind way to describe what has gone on under this series of truly appalling PMs.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Absolutely spot on - on both counts, and I'd like to throw in a third similarity - they both showed incredibly poor judgement in appointing their cabinets resulting in us enduring the fall out from having many incompetents or crooks (both in some cases!) in ministerial positions that they should never have got anywhere near, and I think that is a ridculously kind way to describe what has gone on under this series of truly appalling PMs.

 

Nowadays you don't appoint the best people for the job. You just appoint those who you owe a favour to.

So a Chancellor, at the time, being investigated for tax avoidance, is the template for all appointments ongoing.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

10 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm not sure he'll go, can't see him going willingly and sunak might think  'challenger 2' is a good response to accusations of being a ditherer and one that allows him to move the narrative onto the so called 'big calls'.

Well, we already know that Sunak is totally tin-eared, a ditherer and a frequent u-turner - he has already demonstrated that in spades.

So if he genuinely believes the above then I'd suggest that he is completely deluded.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

This mght hep - 

31 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm not sure he'll go, can't see him going willingly and sunak might think  'challenger 2' is a good response to accusations of being a ditherer and one that allows him to move the narrative onto the so called 'big calls'.

The two are unrelated. I doubt anybody else thinks there are linkages between Challenger (which oddly didn't have the desired effect on Germany) and what's left of the the Tory party's internal terminal problems with Zahawi.

This may help -

HMRC chief executive says 'no penalties for innocent errors' in people's tax affairs

Jim Harra, the chief executive of HM Revenue and Customs, has said there are “no penalties for innocent errors” in an individual’s tax affairs.

Appearing before the Public Accounts Committee, Harra was careful to point out that he was not discussing any particular individual. He said:

Carelessness is a concept in tax law. It can be relevant to how many back years that we can assess, can be relevant to whether someone is liable to a penalty and if so, what penalty they will be liable to for an error in their tax affairs. There are no penalties for innocent errors in your tax affairs. So if you take reasonable care, but nevertheless make a mistake, whilst you will be liable for the tax and for interest if it’s paid late, you would not be liable for a penalty. But if your error was as a result of carelessness, then legislation says that a penalty could apply in those circumstances.

It’s worth pointing out that Nadhim Zahawi did pay a penalty imposed by HMRC as part of an estimated £5m tax bill.

Harra told MPs that officials would help “in any way we possibly can” with the ethics inquiry into Zahawi’s tax affairs.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Ther highest amount of fine does not make this tax fraudster 'careless'. If he had any idea of taking this story out of the media obsessed by SLAPP's  and Russians meddling with Tory's, he would take his hat and coat and resign. But as party chair he thinks he can get away with it and probably will, after all they can make it all up as they teeter along No Mandate Road.