Ramblings of madmen... Ruining our club

[Grampit Curfew 0]

i haven''t posted on here for quite a while, since this whole ktf /

worthy outer debate was begun, stopping anyone from posting a view

without being put into one of the 2 camps i just thought i would tell

you though, that you have basically said exactly what i hve been

meaning to say for the last 2 months or so since i last posted. thanks

for that.

by the way, i used to post as Kolin Kob, but for some reason my old

profile doesn''t work any more. don''t know why. anyone on the webteam

able to shed any light?

[Tumbleweed 106]

Whilst I agree that there has been some hysteria, emotions are running high because of the one fact that I think we all agree on: we have badly underachieved this year.

However, I disagree with two aspects:

(1) This generalisation: the WOs are on a destructive witch hunt and the KTFs are complacent fools.

What makes a "reasonable" approach? Well, I would suggest that to be "reasonable" is to look at the evidence for and against the position you wish to take. My current position is that I no longer wish NW to be manager of this football club. In coming to that view I have considered the decisions and performances over the past 18 months and tried to reconcile that with the period immediately preceding it when we won Dvision One comfortably and played some terrific football in the second part of that season.

Someone else may come to a different view, so long as they can argue why they continue to support the current manager that''s fine and I respect their view even though I may hold a different one.

(2) The goldfish bowl at Norwich. Modern media has made the concept of the goldfish bowl inevitable. Compared with when I started going to CR in the 70s, we have so much information at our fingertips. The effect of the internet has been huge: websites, search engines, message boards, football stat sites, email; plus we have a non stop satellite sports channels latching onto every morsel, sport-dedicated radio stations, text messaging, phone-ins, mobile communications. Most of these media require content, and football fans feed off content. As  breed we are eager for news and we like to speculate. I disagree that we are different from any other sets of supporters. What I do believe is that Norwich fans seem to be less hysterical and more patient and balanced than many. There will always be some who by their temperament are not ofthis ilk, but I think they have it pretty lucky down at Colney and CR.

I have lived in many other cities in the UK and I would suggest that anybody who wants to see bile, invective and destructive criticism go to Birmingham (not just the Blues, but most of the teams there suffer) where I have been shocked at the judgemental and hysterical reactions to even minor episodes.

What I object to, a1, is actually the sort of one-line drivel which has recently become more common on this Board. I want reasoning, debate, argument and counter argument. If you believe the club is lying, then give your supporting evidence. If you think Etuhu is the worst signing ever, then explain why and how you can make that assertion when he appears half fits and played just a handful of games.

Speculation is fun and part of human nature. Where speculation becomes a purported statement of fact we have a problem.

[lucky green trainers 0]

this message board reflects the supporters opinion and by inference the state of the club, nothing more, nothing less - for one minute i don''t believe it has the power to influence or shape events at carrow rd - if so, surely worthy would be sunning himself on a well deserved holiday by now.It saddens me to hear people haven''t been posting here, because they feel supporters have been ranting for ranting''s sake and reasonable debate has gone to the wall.  Some may not like the tone of the debate, but that''s the reality of where city are at the moment.We all know, if at the seasons end we''re promoted, the mood will be different on here - but that''s life.By all means,  exercise your democratic voice, but because it seems many are not, does this mean they either have nothing to say, or that their arguments carry little weight presently. if you believe in what you''re saying, then surely you should always express yourself.Speak up or hold your peace i say.   ranters aren''t madmen, they care as much about the club as the next person, and presently their prevalance serves to demonstrate that its not all hunky dory at city - however much we may want it.

[Viking 0]

Thank you A1 as with many other posters I agree with what you have posted.  I dont post on here very often but read most days and have to say that I have found it all quite depressing, we seem to have gone from a group of supporters who were all together with the football club to a broken and divided bunch.

I  look at this site most days hoping that after five wins on the bounce and a manager of the month award may have people a little more united again, but it doesnt seem to happen. 

I do however think that the response to this post proves that there are more people out there who whether begrudgingly or not support NW, the board and the players in what has so far been a disappointing season.

Reality its the biggest thing on TV these days!

 

[Paul Aldrich 0]

An interesting post, not sure what the point being made was though. I think you are wrong to have a pop at the NCFC fans A1, the attendance at Norwich v West Ham was the fifth or sixth highest of the FA cup ties and our attendances have often been higher than those at Reading and Sheff Utd, even when we were hovering just above the relegation zone. The club has played on the relationship with the fans, but recently their actions have endangered this relationship - For example I turned up to Carrow Rd fully expecting  Ashton to play, after all NW said he would have no qualms about him being cup tied, if, as has been suggested on this board, Ashton was injured on Thursday, what harm would have been done in telling us ?. This relationship thing has become a one way street, the fans are expected to turn up and pay good money to support their team but the moment they dare to question the running of the club they are cast as the villians of the piece.

I am fed up to the back teeth with the accusations that NCFC fans expectations are set to high, these expectations are fuelled by the NCFC Board, they talk of "prudence with ambition" and "European football within 5 years" (This was the talk after we got promoted to the Prem) - How are we going to achieve these goals without a side capable of a "top 5" finish in the Prem or of winning a cup ?.

To summarise:

It is OK for me to buy a three year season ticket, it is OK for me to purchase shares in NCFC, it is OK for me to not redeem the share dividend when we got promoted to the Prem, it is OK for me to have an NCFC MasterCard, it is OK for me to buy NCFC merchandise.

It is not OK for me to view anything other than at least a play off place this season as a FAILURE!!

I am neither a KTF or Worthy Outer that said I reserve the right to have a whinge at the end of the season if we do not make the play offs.

 

 

 

[Trent Canary 0]

"Thakfully, all the replies to this post have restored my faith in NCFC fans, far more than i expected. Thanks guys! And for reminding us of the other ''level headers'' out there - gorleston, old boy, SPat, morty, chunky, ncfc4prem, robbo etc, and trent and yoda - worthy outers who can appreciate that the ''witch hunt'' (exactly right trent) has got out of hand in recent weeks."

Cheers sir. To be honest I really dont know with Worthy, one minute I think he is awful, I think his transfers and his tactics are poor and he has got to go. Then the next I think it could be far far worse in terms of managers, and that his average finishing position in division one is fifth (1 + 6 + 8). Im probably right in the middle, Im not really advocating a change of manager, I just have big reservations about the bloke decision making, and whether he is capable of taking us back up, but deep down I know he should be given the chance, as he has done it before. Im not his biggest fan, but it scares me who his replacement might be!

As other people have mentioned, it just winds me up when people have a go at him for things that have nothing to do with him, or are completely based on fabricated rumours, usually such rubbish from the Daily Mirror that is just used to fill a few column inches. Posters like... Well im sure you can think of a few who seem to have a go at him for absolutely everything wrong with the club (And indeed, some things that are actually right at the club but they just dont realize) As I mentioned earlier, it baffles me how these people write such rubbish, then criticize the board for not listening to their misinformed opinions.

Also Ive started to become a bit disillusioned with the board, bloke in front of me spoke to N Doncaster on saturday, who said they are doing everything they can to get us out of the division, and they did everything to stay in the premiership. Also I do recognize that teams have gone into administration and thats the last thing I want. However I just think this "Prudence with ambition" is going a bit too far, other teams in similar positions, with similar amounts of money seem to have spent more than us. If we could have gone out and bought Ashton, or a similar quality striker at the start of the Premiership season who knows what might have happened. And yes im taking into account the infill (That cost so damn much! And if we arent back in the premier soon the infill wont be filled. Im beginning to notice a few empty seats around carrow road recently, back to supporting Man United, or Chelsea I would assume?).. But anyway thats another matter for another day.

[a1canary 0]

"It is not OK for me to view anything other than at least a play off place this season as a FAILURE!!

I am neither a KTF or Worthy Outer that said I reserve the right to

have a whinge at the end of the season if we do not make the play offs."

I

agree with you Paul, i''m desperate for at least a play off place, which

looks like all we can hope for. Like i said, i''m not against criticism.

But i still think you have to expect to play along with the fun and

games around transfer window time, simply because the club has to.

Whatever they tell us, all the vultures circling know as well. They

HAVE to keep them guessing. So far, in the past, the club has been

excellent at playing this game but you have to expect to go along with

it and expect the unexpected rather than get all hot under the collar

about it.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

"As other people have mentioned, it just winds me up when people have a go at him for things that have nothing to do with him, or are completely based on fabricated rumours, usually such rubbish from the Daily Mirror that is just used to fill a few column inches. Posters like... Well im sure you can think of a few who seem to have a go at him for absolutely everything wrong with the club (And indeed, some things that are actually right at the club but they just dont realize) As I mentioned earlier, it baffles me how these people write such rubbish, then criticize the board for not listening to their misinformed opinions."

Well to be honest trent I beleive the interest in Andy Gray because he comes across as the type of player worthy has been signing.  I fear for us if ashton is sold and worthy spends the cash.

[YankeeCanary 0]

If I''m reading your post correctly Trent, I think you have made a leap with some of the names that you identify as Worthy outers. I don''t think that''s the position of some of those names at all based upon some of the posts I have read.

[Huddy 0]

I dont no what your views are on me and my opinions but i would just like too add that i think that everyone on here are norwich supporters, all want the club to do well and alt have there opinions. Even the worthy lovers must understand that alot of valuable cash has been wasted on average to poor players when better players have been available, also his judgement in releasing players like mackay, eddy , crow etc seem odd. Also, why does he persist on buying average players when we have young talent wo can do as good a job. I am not his greatest fan, Worthy has turned the club around, but has made errors. Lets just see what happens up to the end of the season and what he does in the transfer market and judge him in the summer, nobody can come in now the season is too old.

I also think that people all have different ideas about ashton, some say he should be loyal and there is a difference of opinion as to whom has the decision that he leaves. I fell that the club pay his wages and so we have the advantage and have no need to sell. If ashton says in public that he wants to go, then let him go but we should not let him dictate a price.

The board can be naive, and sometimes do not tell the whole truth, but in reflection which club tells its fans the ins and outs of everything. We justy want to be treated with respect, not told exactl;y this and exactly that.

 

[beelsie 0]

A1, just a short version in support of your reasonable post, and indeed many of the replies both for and a few against, all, I am sure are written from the heart of genuine supporters of NCFC club, I have been a Worthy critic but never a Worthy outer.  He will learn from his mistakes and there have been several.  Sound reasoning tells me that if we have paid him and his staff good money to make these mistakes, then we should reap the benefit of his learning how not to make them again.  That said, there are many on here who are setting their sights a little too high for our pockets regarding expectations.  Until we have a club capable of having regular 40000 plus supporters at games we can never afford the wages of the type of footballer that MAY have the ability to regularly aspire to top end of the Premiership and Europe.  Unless of course there is another Abramovic out there somewhere who might be tempted. OTBC!!!!

[YankeeCanary 0]

Hi beelsie. Good to see you steering a consistent course, and despite the years going by ( for both of us ) you appear not to be losing your way. As you know from my posts of two seasons ago, you and I are fully aligned on ensuring the club lives within a manageable budget. With respect to your position on Worthy, however, I''m afraid we will just have to hold different positions. He has held the manager''s position for five full years now. Your position is we''ve paid him to learn through mistakes and we should now reap the benefit of that learning. No need to go into detail as it''s all been tabled and discussed. My position is that he has not learned what he needed to even at this level, and I seriously doubt he has the ability to outthink Premiership peers should we be fortunate enough to get back to that level. Even a manager in business can not expect a lengthy tenure nowadays if results are not forthcoming. It''s even less so for a football manager. Additionally, and this ties in to the budget constraints, for a club of our size/financial scope and given the original basis for investing in the Academy, we need more youngsters coming through the ranks and being in a position to really push hard for a place in the first team. As manager, he is accountable for what transpires in that area. It is my feeling that if Worthy was in charge for another five years we still would see very little materialise on that front. 

[beelsie 0]

Yes YC! we certainly do differ on certain aspects but our approach is level and does hold a certain course, that it is possible to follow in logic.  Your point that that Worthy has reached a position that, from the knowledge and skill required to aspire to better things for NCFC in the thinking department, he has reached his limit.  I, for one would hate to think that this is so.   The managers out there that would be available, will view our financial restraints with not too much optomism and will not relish the restraints and the up-hill battle that faces that would be manager in his attempt to bring premiership football to this club.  The capable ones that may bring success are already in good jobs and would need a tidy sum to be pursuaded to join us, excepting the obvious that there could be a rich philanthropist ready to shed some of his or her riches Norwich City way.

I do agree that the academy is a source gold if it is possible to attract the type of youngster that we all would wish for, and could become the new Beckhams or Rooney''s.  I do not like the obvious answer that immediately comes to mind.  It is this , the young football enthusiasts of today are looking for the big 5 clubs, and those 5 clubs have well paid scouts who are looking for the tallent they have to offer and will invest at a young age.  I believe that you will only find the journeyman junior footballer out there who the rich clubs have discarded in their search for the tallent that we all wish would grace our football ground at Carrow Road.  I hope everyone, that I am wrong in my suppositions, but sadly I think not.

For we at Norwich sadly, are not glamorous enough for the youngster of today, as the football world as we know it will reduce drastically in size and we will become less of a competitive entity within that world of finance and megga-bucks.

[0peteddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

YC Trent wrote

"Thakfully, all the replies to this post have restored my faith in NCFC fans, far more than i expected. Thanks guys! And for reminding us of the other ''level headers'' out there - gorleston, old boy, SPat, morty, chunky, ncfc4prem, robbo etc, and trent and yoda - worthy outers who can appreciate that the ''witch hunt'' (exactly right trent) has got out of hand in recent weeks."

I think he is praising those in favour of Worthy rather than those who think he''s had his day.

And Beelsie how much longer do we give Nigel to learn from his mistakes is 5 years too long, methinks it is.

Recently after 5 victories this board has been taken over by the reasonable give Nigel a fair crack brigade, even if we do unlikely as it is get promoted through the play offs I cannot trust him to do a better job than last time in the Prem.

Colours firmly nailed to mast, Worthy must go now and should have gone 12 months ago.  

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

people keep going on about mega buck.. 

No all I would rather see is better players and promising players arrive at this club from the lower divisions or lesser clubs, there are loads around and they will be busting a gut to prove themselves. Just look at Drury and Mckenzie both have done a sterling job for norwich. We have signed none of recent times - the last being Ashton. 

NOT players failing at championship sides, it seems we are spending more money on players but not actually getting players of any better calibre in.