The Positive Brexit Thread

[Barbe bleu 832]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

So it could have been Britannia rule the raves. 

There are worse things to rule

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

Well I'm pleased for Cowley - pity we had to bribe BMW with £75M (I do hope its Brexiteer money) to stay here for while with electric minis! Only those 10% tariffs now to sort by December 😞 

 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

28 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Well I'm pleased for Cowley - pity we had to bribe BMW with £75M (I do hope its Brexiteer money) to stay here for while with electric minis! Only those 10% tariffs now to sort by December 😞 

 

 

Yes. Didn't you know? A system of taxation has been introduced that taxes people differently according to  their political opinions.

Edited September 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Yes. Didn't you know? A system of taxation has been introduced that taxes people differently according to  their political opinions.

Isn't that exactly what all parties do anyway - shift the tax burden. Our current government loves taxing the young and giving it to the old (their diminishing voters) for instance. Pensions (triple lock), student loans, inheritance tax and so on.

Hmm.

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

16 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

It's not 'rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves'  it's 'rule, Britannia, Britannia rule the eaves!'   The lyricist is exhorting the government to invest in naval power so that Britons will not be slaves.

As you quite rightly say it was written and a time when being taken into slavery was a valid fear for coastal Britons and a subject of national interest (for instance the 1751 book 'The History of the Long Captivity and Adventures of Thomas Pellow in south barbary'). History of the Long Captivity and Adventures of Thomas Pellow in South-Barbary. It was also just after the Dutch stopped handing out regular spankings to the British, Like they did at sole bay.

the more modern interpretation that this is boastful jingoism came later, when britannia did rule the waves, but that was long after slavery was abolished in the Empire and the navy was employed making sure that everyone else did it too.

Appreciate the history BB and as you note in its original form it was a call to invest in the navy when Britain didn't 'rule' the waves.

The Victorians rather changed its meaning and today despite the more accurate interpretation I suspect most people, especially those from overseas, only see at as 'Rule Britannia', empire and the like. Nothing against the good patriotic song but actually its even better when tempered with flags of many other nations and indeed the EU - a call for all nations to never be slaves! That is something Oakeshott will never understand.

And yes nearly 40 years ago I was there - once!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

Appreciate the history BB and as you note in its original form it was a call to invest in the navy when Britain didn't 'rule' the waves.

The Victorians rather changed its meaning and today despite the more accurate interpretation I suspect most people, especially those from overseas, only see at as 'Rule Britannia', empire and the like. Nothing against the good patriotic song but actually its even better when tempered with flags of many other nations and indeed the EU - a call for all nations to never be slaves! That is something Oakeshott will never understand.

And yes nearly 40 years ago I was there - once!

People always have waved whatever flags they want at the proms; it has always been part of it. This, on the other hand, is nothing more than a stupid prank/political gesture hijacking an event to push a divisive political argument they want to continue. I must confess I did have some fun with Thank EU for the Music, who were involved in it, pointing out that maybe they'd be better off flying the flag at cultural events that the EU funded rather than ones that have nothing to do with it.

For their part, I do think people demanding the BBC 'investigate why it was aired' are being very silly. All of these people going out of their way to swamp it with EU flags are seeking attention, so let them fly their precious EU flags... and ignore them.

[Herman 9,823]

I think it is done to highlight the cultural damage that brexit has done to the music industry in particular. Music lovers know that musicians are suffering because of new restrictions placed on them by the brexit government. 

The fact it winds up the more gammonry types is nothing but a bonus. 

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

People always have waved whatever flags they want at the proms; it has always been part of it. This, on the other hand, is nothing more than a stupid prank/political gesture hijacking an event to push a divisive political argument they want to continue. I must confess I did have some fun with Thank EU for the Music, who were involved in it, pointing out that maybe they'd be better off flying the flag at cultural events that the EU funded rather than ones that have nothing to do with it.

For their part, I do think people demanding the BBC 'investigate why it was aired' are being very silly. All of these people going out of their way to swamp it with EU flags are seeking attention, so let them fly their precious EU flags... and ignore them.

As I read it they simply gave the flags away free outside to anybody who wanted one. Nobody had to wave the the flag if they didn't want too.

So not really a 'stunt' but more a piece of opportunism - and it may actually largely reflect the feelings of the demographic that go to the Proms (and I guess wouldn't usually 'protest'). Effective certainly.

I would agree the usual silly suspects complaining are only showing us their shallowness as ever.   

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

55 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

As I read it they simply gave the flags away free outside to anybody who wanted one. Nobody had to wave the the flag if they didn't want too.

So not really a 'stunt' but more a piece of opportunism - and it may actually largely reflect the feelings of the demographic that go to the Proms (and I guess wouldn't usually 'protest'). Effective certainly.

I would agree the usual silly suspects complaining are only showing us their shallowness as ever.   

Both opportunist and a stunt. And just as shallow as those complaining, with the added shortcoming that they're doing their best to ruin yet another one of the few things about the UK worth bothering with by seeking attention and controversy to overshadow the event itself.

And no, it's not effective either in terms of making it more likely that we're going to rejoin the EU. It's effective in further damaging the reputation of the Proms and the reputation of the BBC in putting them at the centre of a pointless argument.

If anything, it's just going to make front line politicians even more reluctant to go there, with the reminder of the acrimony that has been caused by the question over the EU and what we'll definitely have a repeat of if they do go there.

Edited September 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[TheGunnShow 5,994]

18 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

It's not 'rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves'  it's 'rule, Britannia, Britannia rule the eaves!'   The lyricist is exhorting the government to invest in naval power so that Britons will not be slaves.

As you quite rightly say it was written and a time when being taken into slavery was a valid fear for coastal Britons and a subject of national interest (for instance the 1751 book 'The History of the Long Captivity and Adventures of Thomas Pellow in south barbary'). History of the Long Captivity and Adventures of Thomas Pellow in South-Barbary. It was also just after the Dutch stopped handing out regular spankings to the British, Like they did at sole bay.

the more modern interpretation that this is boastful jingoism came later, when britannia did rule the waves, but that was long after slavery was abolished in the Empire and the navy was employed making sure that everyone else did it too.

Yeah, Deutschland über alles suffered from the same sort of problem. The N/azis commandeered it but it was written in the early 1840s, so a good thirty years before Bismarck actually got Germany together as we know it and the song meant that all the myriad constituent German states of the time, so Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony, etc. with all its constituent German-speaking peoples should get together to form a Germany that is there to safeguard them all. (Incidentally, the borders mentioned in the first verse would make it problematic even without the Na-zi matter, as none of the borders mentioned are within modern-day Germany now, one being in Denmark, one in the Netherlands, one in Lithuania and the last one in northern Italy).

However, a certain Hit-ler and his cohorts, 90 years after the song was originally written, took it as meaning that Germany should rule over everyone else and polluted the song to that effect.

Reinterpretation of old songs for more toxically jingoistic purposes is not just a British thing.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

16 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Yeah, Deutschland über alles suffered from the same sort of problem. The N/azis commandeered it but it was written in the early 1840s, so a good thirty years before Bismarck actually got Germany together as we know it and the song meant that all the myriad constituent German states of the time, so Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony, etc. with all its constituent German-speaking peoples should get together to form a Germany that is there to safeguard them all. (Incidentally, the borders mentioned in the first verse would make it problematic even without the Na-zi matter, as none of the borders mentioned are within modern-day Germany now, one being in Denmark, one in the Netherlands, one in Lithuania and the last one in northern Italy).

However, a certain Hit-ler and his cohorts, 90 years after the song was originally written, took it as meaning that Germany should rule over everyone else and polluted the song to that effect.

Reinterpretation of old songs for more toxically jingoistic purposes is not just a British thing.

Same with the Swastika. In Indian culture it remains a good luck charm. I think it's a mistake to allow critics to redefine things through negative association as a justification for erasing culture.

Edited September 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Both opportunist and a stunt. And just as shallow as those complaining, with the added shortcoming that they're doing their best to ruin yet another one of the few things about the UK worth bothering with by seeking attention and controversy to overshadow the event itself.

And no, it's not effective either in terms of making it more likely that we're going to rejoin the EU. It's effective in further damaging the reputation of the Proms and the reputation of the BBC in putting them at the centre of a pointless argument.

If anything, it's just going to make front line politicians even more reluctant to go there, with the reminder of the acrimony that has been caused by the question over the EU and what we'll definitely have a repeat of if they do go there.

This tell's me more about your views than anything else. It didn't 'ruin' anything. 

[Herman 9,823]

23 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

This tell's me more about your views than anything else. It didn't 'ruin' anything. 

It ruined it for those that don't want to be reminded of their daft decisions. 😁

[Pyro Pete 1,918]

Boris Johnson didn't know what a customs union was. Quelle surprise.

 

[Creative Midfielder 2,002]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

If anything, it's just going to make front line politicians even more reluctant to go there, with the reminder of the acrimony that has been caused by the question over the EU and what we'll definitely have a repeat of if they do go there.

I don't think that is the case at all, although I'm not suggesting that it will make them change their stance imminently either.

But it is a very visible demonstration, of which there have been several recently, of just how far behind the curve of public opinion on Brexit our 'front line politicians' are, and eventually those politicians are going to have to address that or risk being removed from the 'front line' altogether.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Creative Midfielder

[Herman 9,823]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I don't think that is the case at all, although I'm not suggesting that it will make them change their stance imminently either.

But it is a very visible demonstration, of which there have been several recently, of just how far behind the curve of public opinion on Brexit our 'front line politicians' are, and eventually those politicians are going to have to address that or risk being removed from the 'front line' altogether.

Stephen Fry sums it up perfectly.

 

[Fen Canary 866]

On 10/09/2023 at 10:32, Herman said:

Good to see all the EU flags at the Proms tonight, again. 👍

Bunch of flag sh@ggers, longing for the days of the EU Empire! 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

4 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Bunch of flag sh@ggers, longing for the days of the EU Empire! 

You're not wrong, and a flag for some poxy technocracy with no proper citizens at that!

[Herman 9,823]

A cobbled together piece of cloth that pretends there is some sort of Union of equals which misses out one country altogether. Anyway, enough about the Union Jack, here's some nice blue and gold ones.

 

 

[Barbe bleu 832]

20 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Both opportunist and a stunt. 

If anything, it's just going to make front line politicians even more reluctant to go there.

Nothing defeats the myth that the remaining movement is driven by a "liberal metropolitan elite" better than a Liberal display of flags at an "elite" event in London.

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

21 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Nothing defeats the myth that the remaining movement is driven by a "liberal metropolitan elite" better than a Liberal display of flags at an "elite" event in London.

 

 

Yes BB - in my earlier comment I had wondered if to point out explicitly that the PROMs almost by definition are an 'elite' event (in London) and given possibly c. 60/40 nationally are now pro EU it is hardly surprising that the elite London centric Prom goers are even more so in their quiet way. Indeed I suspect many a 'respectable' PROM goer loved the subtle chance given to them to poke fun at Brexit and make a point.

It is the over reactions that I find funny by some both on here and in politics. Clearly some are in the gutter looking down.   

[Herman 9,823]

The Proms I went to was far cheaper than an average football game. So I'm not sure that it can be classed as elite anymore. 

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

23 minutes ago, Herman said:

The Proms I went to was far cheaper than an average football game. So I'm not sure that it can be classed as elite anymore. 

True - but I don't think largely classically inspired music appeals to the general 'working class' population much. 

[Herman 9,823]

10 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

True - but I don't think largely classically inspired music appeals to the general 'working class' population much. 

Fair point. 👍 

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Fair point. 👍 

It also used to be the case that to get tickets to the flag waving 'last night' you'd had to of gone to some 'not the last night' as well. 

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

-

Edited September 12, 2023 by Yellow Fever
duplicate

[Herman 9,823]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

It also used to be the case that to get tickets to the flag waving 'last night' you'd had to of gone to some 'not the last night' as well. 

Just looked it up and there's a 5 ticket ballot plus season ticket holders. Pay on the door as well. Still, probably easier to get in than Glastonbury. 😁

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

54 minutes ago, Herman said:

Just looked it up and there's a 5 ticket ballot plus season ticket holders. Pay on the door as well. Still, probably easier to get in than Glastonbury. 😁

I'm well out of date on this - my last visit was pre-internet! 

[Herman 9,823]

The FCA finds no proof in the Farage debanking for political views debacle. 

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

The FCA finds no proof in the Farage debanking for political views debacle. 

You must mean the lefty FCA blob anti-growth coalition wokerati North London ULEZ loving socialist fascists.

They just do what Meghan Markle tells them.