The Positive Brexit Thread

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

20 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

Read it again LYB. It really couldn't have been clearer.

“As an investor we want a country to be stable. To open a factory . . . is a decision for decades. Without Brexit, maybe. But after Brexit, we don’t understand what happened. The UK doesn’t have a very good solution. Even on the long list we didn’t have the UK.”

Oddly - the view expressed is the one I have seen personally in Asian boardrooms and reported on before  - disbelief that the UK could be so stupid.

Recharge industries is by the way is not now going to build EV batteries (no help to car industry) but mainly those for power storage (far more sensible give the UKs wind power and renewables)

I did read it, the bit in bold screams there was never much serious consideration in the first place, and the absence of any announcement of a factory in the EU makes a mockery of the story.

We all know it wasn't a good decision. That doesn't change the fact that this is a really weak spin they've put on this story to make a headline about Brexit.

It's a no brainer that the political uncertainty will persist until we're ratified in CPTPP, at which point people can start planning again.

Finally, why haven't they made any announcement for a manufacturing base in the EU yet? Could it be that they're still waiting for things to calm down re Brexit before deciding? If not, why are they making a low priority of a huge market?

Edited March 17, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

44 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Oddly - the view expressed is the one I have seen personally in Asian boardrooms and reported on before  - disbelief that the UK could be so stupid.

I meant to address this but got distracted by a phonecall.

This is actually a good thing because it underlines they're interested and concerned. This is also why countries outside the EU have made an effort to help smooth things between us and the EU.

But once again, the people who don't get Brexit only look through the economic lens because they were okay with the direction of the EU. This may surprise you, but I still think the EU needs to federalise and felt that was what was needed before we left. Others didn't buy into political union though, and they've every right to that view; it has been stated by a well-respected member on this forum that he perceived the referendum as a last chance to stop a seemingly unstoppable process of ever-closer political union that he simply didn't agree with. That's a legitimate view on the political side that I've no doubt many others share while being aware of the economic downsides of Brexit.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[kick it off 1,952]

On 17/03/2023 at 09:05, littleyellowbirdie said:

 Others didn't buy into political union though, and they've every right to that view; it has been stated by a well-respected member on this forum that he perceived the referendum as a last chance to stop a seemingly unstoppable process of ever-closer political union that he simply didn't agree with. That's a legitimate view on the political side that I've no doubt many others share while being aware of the economic downsides of Brexit.

Thank goodness, who wouldnt want to self sabotage the economy to allow us to enjoy the fruits of leaving all decision making up to veritable geniuses and solid, honest decent people like Truss, Boris Johnson and Sunak?

Edited March 18, 2023 by kick it off

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

2 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Thank goodness, who wouldnt want to self sabotage the economy to allow us to enjoy the fruits of leaving all decision making up to veritable geniuses and solid, honest decent people like Truss, Boris Johnson and Sunak?

Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve - George Bernard Shaw

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve - George Bernard Shaw

The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular respresentatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them-Karl Marx

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

On 12/03/2023 at 17:10, Herman said:

Can we have some numbers before we congratulate you brexiters?

It would be useful if you Rejoiniacs could try researching instead of asking others to do so for you. Start by reading the ONS and the EU's own Eurostat site which provides figures on economic growth, inflation and unemployment: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat

Economic growth - Britain: 0.0% (+0.3% in January) The EU: -0.1%

Inflation - Brexit Britain: 8.8%. The EU: 10.0%

Unemployment - Britain: 3.7%. The EU: 6.1%

Obviously you don't want to admit it, but Brexit Britain is holding its own financially and this is before the Government finally gets around to implementing the freedoms we should now be enjoying, which will really accelerate the UK’s progress still further.

[Herman 9,779]

Surely being out on our own, with our own dynamic trading arrangements, we should be well ahead of a group of diverse nations?

Stats for Europe. We'd be mid league.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation-rate-in-eu-countries/

Edited March 18, 2023 by Herman

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

The unsolvable disaster that is Brexit continues - 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/20/dup-ian-paisley-vote-against-northern-ireland-post-brexit-deal

I guess for the DUP the only solution is for all of the UK to be in both the SM and CU? 

So I guess Sunak's quite sensible deal will pass, revolt with the DUP and some Tories but the Stormont issues remains. A total cluster-f*** of the inept.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

46 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The unsolvable disaster that is Brexit continues - 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/20/dup-ian-paisley-vote-against-northern-ireland-post-brexit-deal

I guess for the DUP the only solution is for all of the UK to be in both the SM and CU? 

So I guess Sunak's quite sensible deal will pass, revolt with the DUP and some Tories but the Stormont issues remains. A total cluster-f*** of the inept.

And yet another example of the minority once again telling the majority to step into line

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

45 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

And yet another example of the minority once again telling the majority to step into line

Becomes ever more obvious by the day the uber Brexiteers never had a plan, signed a blank cheque and never read the small print. Surcharge the lot of them.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

10 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Becomes ever more obvious by the day the uber Brexiteers never had a plan, signed a blank cheque and never read the small print. Surcharge the lot of them.

Trouble is, just like the Banks, this lot get bailed out after every expensive calamity.

[Herman 9,779]

The ERG have concerns about the Windsor Framework. 

No surprises from those fifth column twats. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

The ERG have concerns about the Windsor Framework. 

No surprises from those fifth column twats. 

Labour will vote with Sunak and the ERG will vote with the DUP. Farcical.

[Van wink 2,994]

Amazing to see the gap narrow twixt Tory and Labour, an anomaly maybe, or should SKS maybe stop relying too heavily on anti Tory sentiment 

[Herman 9,779]

24 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Amazing to see the gap narrow twixt Tory and Labour, an anomaly maybe, or should SKS maybe stop relying too heavily on anti Tory sentiment 

The second one. Sunak has shown some semblance of competency so Starmer needs to start laying out his policies louder, clearer and fuller.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

The second one. Sunak has shown some semblance of competency so Starmer needs to start laying out his policies louder, clearer and fuller.

I said this time and time again. Starmer just outlines the end game but never tells us how we will achieve it.

[Herman 9,779]

2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I said this time and time again. Starmer just outlines the end game but never tells us how we will achieve it.

Hopefully Hunt stealing the childcare idea was a wake up call.

[Barbe bleu 827]

43 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hopefully Hunt stealing the childcare idea was a wake up call.

Wasn't it Truss' idea?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

On 18/03/2023 at 18:32, Herman said:

Surely being out on our own, with our own dynamic trading arrangements, we should be well ahead of a group of diverse nations?

Stats for Europe. We'd be mid league.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation-rate-in-eu-countries/

Darn. That cliff edge, eh? 🙃

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Hopefully Hunt stealing the childcare idea was a wake up call.

I don't hold out any hope. He has already changed his mind on Brexit and nationalisation.

[Herman 9,779]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

Wasn't it Truss' idea?

God knows.😂

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

On 18/03/2023 at 14:45, keelansgrandad said:

The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular respresentatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them-Karl Marx

Unlike those lucky folks that don't need to vote because they have such awesome leaders like Xi Jin Ping and Kim Jong Un! Soooo jealous... 🤢

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

Another Tory rebellion due for today on NI. 

That's on top of the public Johnson disembowelling just to remind people as to what an unrepentant  s h i t  he (and his Tory government and groupies/floozies such as Truss ) was.

SKS just needs to sit back and watch from a safe distance until the dust settles to see what's left.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[sonyc 5,526]

34 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Another Tory rebellion due for today on NI. 

That's on top of the public Johnson disembowelling just to remind people as to what an unrepentant  s h i t  he (and his Tory government and groupies/floozies such as Truss ) was.

SKS just needs to sit back and watch from a safe distance until the dust settles to see what's left.

This is what Johnson is about. 2021 is the year.  Putting on running gear and getting out of his chauffered car in order to run the last 10m into his hotel. No doubt some photographers on hand. There's another ITV clip in the thread too (2023) with another recent example. He knows that the main picture that will be printed will be of a man running, keeping fit, not especially bothered about the world going on outside etc. The charlatan in sweatshirt and sweatpants, in gym clothing. The people's Everyman.

And today in stating he is voting against the Windsor Framework he can signal to his ERG buddies that he is with them - come the day he gets to stand as leader again.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

14 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Unlike those lucky folks that don't need to vote because they have such awesome leaders like Xi Jin Ping and Kim Jong Un! Soooo jealous... 🤢

Didn't know they were Soviet leaders.

[benchwarmer 625]

The UK rate of inflation has risen to 10.4% according to figures released today.

NB. This is the annual inflation rate from Feb 22 to Feb 23, ie. not the rate for a single month.

Edited March 22, 2023 by benchwarmer

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Didn't know they were Soviet leaders.

Communist leaders.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Communist leaders.

Communist? They have more right wing policies than any other Goverment.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Communist? They have more right wing policies than any other Goverment.

That's real world communism for you. 🤷‍♂️

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

I have been reading the account of May’s premiership, dominated of course by Brexit, by Gavin Barwell, who was her chief of staff. And in looking back, musing on why May failed to get a deal, he poses several rhetorical questions. In part about the internal politics in the Tory party, but also inevitably:

“What if the EU had compromised a bit more?”

Which speaks directly to one of the main accusations levelled at the EU, that it cared more about punishing the UK for daring to leave than arriving at a fair deal.

Now the wording of Barwell question is significant, since “…a bit more…” correctly implies that the EU had compromised, and it also suggest Barwell knew it could not go much further.

And in the body of the book Barwell in effect answers that question. The EU had gone pretty much as far as it could.

He instances two major compromises, and by compromises he means fundamental issues on which the EU abandoned its strongly-held positions to try to give May a deal.

At the start of negotiations the EU offered one of two off the peg trade options – staying in the single market and the customs’ union, or just a free trade deal. May preferred a bespoke new model, and in the end the EU agreed to such a unique arrangement.

The EU also reversed its position over the crucial the question of the Irish border, which it wanted in the Irish Sea. However May was in electoral hock to the DUP, for whom that was a total non-starter.

So the EU agreed to having it between the two parts of Ireland, provided the UK could solve the technical problems of checking goods as frictionlessly as possible.

It couldn’t, of course, but the question became moot when BoJo the Lying Charlatan, who had no need of the DUP, took over and – in a diplomatic “triumph” – moved it where the EU had always wanted it to be.

But Barwell highlights two particular problems with the EU giving ground too often. At one point May asked why a legal (stress on “legal”) commitment by the UK government over the backstop part of the Irish border deal was not enough, to which Michel Barnier replied:

“We trust you, Theresa, but we are not sure how long you will be prime minister and we don’t trust what we think is coming next.”

And as Barwell ruefully admits, that mistrust, that even legal commitments might not be honoured by whoever came after, was all too well-founded. Enter BoJo the Lying Charlatan (and of course the contrast with now, when the EU is prepared again to give ground to sensible proposals from a British PM it believes it can trust to keep their word.)

The other problem was exemplified by this incident: “At the end of a lunch Macron told a somewhat startled May that Brexit could not be a success…when he ran against Marine Le Pen he would need to be able to demonstrate that leaving the EU was a mistake.”

Quite why May should have been surprised, or indeed why this factor was, as Barwell admits, underestimated by her negotiating team, is a question. As someone said, all politics is local, and Macron plainly had to defuse the threat of a Frexit. But the broader point is that even if there had not been that threat in France or any of the 27 countries, the EU still had to ensure a deal left the UK not just worse off outside the EU but obviously worse off.

Otherwise member countries might have started to think about leaving, if they could get a cake-and-eat-it deal, and those asking to join might similarly have wondered what was the point of membership.

As Barwell says in his overall judgment: “The EU couldn’t allow Brexit to be SEEN [my emphasis] as a success. It was a question of self-preservation, not malice.”

He admits May failed, but the EU is hardly at the top of his list of culprits. To no surprise he points the finger closer to home, and inside his own party, not just for May’s failure but for BoJo the Lying Charlatan’s economically catastrophic hard Brexit, backed up (as Barnier envisaged) by threats to break his own agreements.

But Barwell also misses a key point. Like so many he says the problem with the Leave vote was that it wasn’t for a specific Brexit. Except it was.

All surveys show the vast majority – often more than 90 per cent – voted Leave on the basis of sovereignty, exemplified by the issues of taking control of borders and getting out from under EU rules and regulations. That had to mean no single market and no customs’ union. May tried to fudge a bit of a compromise on trade that would have reduced the economic damage a bit.

But once she was replaced by BoJo, backed by the headbangers of the ERG, that vote for sovereignty was taken to its logical conclusion. The truth is the EU actually did its best to save the UK from an ultra hard Brexit. But it was powerless to stop a group of extremists gleefully taking more than 17m people at their word and giving them what they voted for.

Edited March 23, 2023 by PurpleCanary