Norwich City fans have no idea, what so ever.

[Europe_93 11]

[quote user="Hank shoots Skyler"]Good post OP.

I have been very fond of AN during his time at the club. I really like his general football style and the sheer truth that he speaks in interviews.

......

I would also like to see. Sam Alladyce? Not the best football but I''d be confident of promotion at least

....go.[/quote]

I agree with most of your post Hank, but Allardyce has soiled the name of England with his stupidity and greed, so no matter how much better he might be than the current incumbent I would not employ him, I''d rather keep our integrity.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Hank

"Two simple questions right back at you Mr Jenkins -

How do you explain that we weren''t making anywhere near the same number of individual mistakes last season in the premier league? When we had Klose in the team that is.

Why are our players only making these errors later on in games? We''ve conceded 23 second half goals vs 5 in the first half. Could it be that they are tired? "

As for the first point Hank, AN was our manager last season so I can''t follow the argument that if the players are now making mistakes it''s his fault. I can''t believe he has changed anything that all of a sudden results in players making cock ups.

As for the second point, I simply don''t know the answer. It''s a different pressure we are under this season, we go into games being expect to win, unlike last season when we were pretty much permenant underdags. Maybe the individuals we have struggle with that pressure which inevitably builds with each defeat

To be honest my view is that we are really missing the presence of Pinto and particularly the presence and influence of Howson. We are having a bad run and every detail will be analysed and turned into a criticism of the manager but I still have confidence that AN can turn things around.

[Highland Canary 76]

Mr J - not at all wanting to get into the who goes and who doesn''t debate but have you watched this team this season? I genuinely have no idea if you''ve watched us (bar 1.5 games) we haven''t played well, indeed quite the opposite. We''ve been found out, I suspect a maximum of one point from the next three. Would you change then?

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Seen all the home games Highland but not gone away this season. It''s been good and bad IMO but no where near a situation where I would consider a change.

If you are saying one point from the next three games, then yes if that did happen I would be seriously worried and the future of the manager would have to be seriously considered, but at the moment I''m nowhere near that level of concern.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]Seen all the home games Highland but not gone away this season. It''s been good and bad IMO but no where near a situation where I would consider a change.

If you are saying one point from the next three games, then yes if that did happen I would be seriously worried and the future of the manager would have to be seriously considered, but at the moment I''m nowhere near that level of concern.[/quote]Can''t disagree with much of that. I was at the Forest and Wolves away games. We played well enough to win the games, thats all that matters.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

The truth will probably lay somewhere between us not being as good as our good run of results and not as bad as our bad run.

[morty 0]

Thats deep, man.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

Hope you''ve got your wellies on ...

[hogesar 9,673]

My biggest issue is purely our seemingly one dimensional approach to games. I also have concerns about him not utilising the squad particularly well but to be fair I''m not sure if any of the subs etc would actually have performed better so I''m overlooking that one for now.

But back to my biggest issue - playing 3 narrow attacking mids and when it doesn''t work...continue playing 3 narrow attacking mids and expect a different result. I''ve not seen us really change that, even in game when chasing.

Presumably the international break will have given AN time to work on things and perhaps give us an alternative way of playing at times.

[morty 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]My biggest issue is purely our seemingly one dimensional approach to games. I also have concerns about him not utilising the squad particularly well but to be fair I''m not sure if any of the subs etc would actually have performed better so I''m overlooking that one for now.

But back to my biggest issue - playing 3 narrow attacking mids and when it doesn''t work...continue playing 3 narrow attacking mids and expect a different result. I''ve not seen us really change that, even in game when chasing.

Presumably the international break will have given AN time to work on things and perhaps give us an alternative way of playing at times.[/quote]Been saying it for weeks now, the loss of Howson is huge. It really is limiting his options, not only in midfield, but in a possible switch to playing two strikers.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

The loss of Howson has been a massive blow, despite a glut of midfield players in the squad we don''t have an adequate replacement for him.

[hogesar 9,673]

Of course we miss Howson as he''s probably our complete midfielder but I really don''t agree it''s limiting our options. Teams with much, much worse options than us in the centre of the pitch are more than willing to play different formations or as you say two strikers up front.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

Mulumbu is the closest.

AN did mention about missing Howson a few weeks ago but somehow it got construed as him saying Howson was the only alternative to Jacob Murphy on the right.

[morty 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]Of course we miss Howson as he''s probably our complete midfielder but I really don''t agree it''s limiting our options. Teams with much, much worse options than us in the centre of the pitch are more than willing to play different formations or as you say two strikers up front.[/quote]Okay, we go 4-4-2.Assuming Lafferty and Jerome up front, and just for arguments sake, a murphy on either wing, who would you be happy with in the middle?Obviously not Hoolahan, as he can''t really play in the formation.Thompson and Dorrans?

[morty 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Mulumbu is the closest.

AN did mention about missing Howson a few weeks ago but somehow it got construed as him saying Howson was the only alternative to Jacob Murphy on the right.

[/quote]Is Mulumbu fit just now?

[Chemical Bro 0]

We never went 4-4-2 when we''ve had Howson. Can''t see AN changing now. Too stubborn.

Not saying that''s the answer btw.

[hogesar 9,673]

Depending on who we are against really Morty. Away from home I.e the QPR game id even be inclined to start Thompson with Tettey for added cover. But I am a big fan of Dorrans, although he has struggled without Howson alongside him which is when I felt we looked best (which does lend to your Howson point quite well even though I''m currently arguing against it!).

I guess my overall point is a bit broader than just change formation and hope for the best, which I think has been the general consensus around here!

For example even with our 4-2-3-1, why not, when it''s clearly not working anyway, force the wider players in the attacking 3 to hug the touchline, make the pitch a bit bigger for us as an attacking team and get Brady and Jacob putting balls into the box. The obvious obstacle is with both Brady and Jacob out wide we still need numbers in the box, so you''re going to need at least Jerome Wes and probably Dorrans or Thompson getting involved. The plus point is we won''t need to play our fullbacks so high which should help us deal with a counter more effectively.

If I''m honest this is all a bit pie in the sky as im more than aware that Alex Neil will be far more aware and knowledgeable on tactics than I am! But its always a bit concerning when it looks like the manager has one system and one system only - it was what ended it for Hughton!

[morty 0]

[quote user="Chemical Bro"]We never went 4-4-2 when we''ve had Howson. Can''t see AN changing now. Too stubborn.

Not saying that''s the answer btw.[/quote]So what is the answer then?And we never had super Lafferty suddenly in worldbeating form before, did we?

[morty 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]Depending on who we are against really Morty. Away from home I.e the QPR game id even be inclined to start Thompson with Tettey for added cover. But I am a big fan of Dorrans, although he has struggled without Howson alongside him which is when I felt we looked best (which does lend to your Howson point quite well even though I''m currently arguing against it!).

I guess my overall point is a bit broader than just change formation and hope for the best, which I think has been the general consensus around here!

For example even with our 4-2-3-1, why not, when it''s clearly not working anyway, force the wider players in the attacking 3 to hug the touchline, make the pitch a bit bigger for us as an attacking team and get Brady and Jacob putting balls into the box. The obvious obstacle is with both Brady and Jacob out wide we still need numbers in the box, so you''re going to need at least Jerome Wes and probably Dorrans or Thompson getting involved. The plus point is we won''t need to play our fullbacks so high which should help us deal with a counter more effectively.

If I''m honest this is all a bit pie in the sky as im more than aware that Alex Neil will be far more aware and knowledgeable on tactics than I am! But its always a bit concerning when it looks like the manager has one system and one system only - it was what ended it for Hughton![/quote]Good answer, and no, its not easy.I can really see why he sees his options as limited, and also if you take into account splitting up our best centre back pairing because our first choice RB is injured, it really is quite an unlucky combination of injuries.Trouble is with spreading the midfield wider it weakens it, and also means that our fullbacks don''t get forward, which really has been the basis of a lot of our attacking, I believe only Newcastle have scored more goals than us. I don''t think Wes has ever pushed himself into the box enough, and I don''t recall Dorrans doing it much either.I always liked the idea of Howson in the Wes role, but its never happened, as far as I remember.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

We have been unlucky with injuries. Not the amount but the areas. Losing Howson and Mulumbu also Pinto and Whittaker is unlucky. And those four players add a lot of energy to our options.

I don''t really see us going 442. Especially without Howson. When Pinto is fit I would like to see Martin Bennett Klose with Pinto and Brady wing backs. But like Hoggy I''m not as knowledgeable on tactics but say it as I see it.

[Chemical Bro 0]

No matter what formation we play if the players aren''t prepared to run through brick walls for the manager it''s unlikely to make a difference.

At the minute our players don''t look like they would run through cotton wool for him.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Chemical Bro"]No matter what formation we play if the players aren''t prepared to run through brick walls for the manager it''s unlikely to make a difference.

At the minute our players don''t look like they would run through cotton wool for him.[/quote]Great stuff[Y]

[hogesar 9,673]

I think Wes gets himself into the box but hes certainly not a physical presence!

I agree with Pinto, it''s a shame Whitts has also been injured as Nutty has said. It has upset the defence.

And yeah you would think Howson would excel in that role but the few times he has been tried in that position he''s really struggled to impact the game. To be fair one of his key strengths has been running from deep and in that forward position I can understand him struggling.

[morty 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]I think Wes gets himself into the box but hes certainly not a physical presence!

I agree with Pinto, it''s a shame Whitts has also been injured as Nutty has said. It has upset the defence.

And yeah you would think Howson would excel in that role but the few times he has been tried in that position he''s really struggled to impact the game. To be fair one of his key strengths has been running from deep and in that forward position I can understand him struggling.[/quote]I like it when we can reason stuff out like this.Instead of just booing and moaning that Alex should change it[:D]

[hogesar 9,673]

Oh f*ck yeah sorry Morty where are my pinkun manners??

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ZLF 274]

Howson is an interesting one and seems to be another example of having got better for not playing. ;-)

He was dropped after the Newcastle game having not met his previous standards for most of the season. He was a sub v wolves but the 6 league games since toon were 2 wins, a draw and then 3 defeats.

Having him as an option would undoubtedly be better for us, but not necessarily the panacea most think. Esp as it will be the new year before he returns.

I can barely credit writing this but the loss of pinto for the last three games has hit us much harder. He has missed 4 matches, -10 goal difference and nil points

It''s not any easy problem to solve.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ZLF"]Howson is an interesting one and seems to be another example of having got better for not playing. ;-)

He was dropped after the Newcastle game having not met his previous standards for most of the season. He was a sub v wolves but the 6 league games since toon were 2 wins, a draw and then 3 defeats.

Having him as an option would undoubtedly be better for us, but not necessarily the panacea most think. Esp as it will be the new year before he returns.

I can barely credit writing this but the loss of pinto for the last three games has hit us much harder. He has missed 4 matches, -10 goal difference and nil points

It''s not any easy problem to solve.[/quote]Don''t get me wrong, I am not Becchioing him by any means. But if we are going to change of formation then he has the attributes we need. Mulumbu is possibly the only closest other option, and I have absolutely no idea what is going on with him, right now.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="morty"]Becchioing[/quote]*adds to NCFC glossary*[:D]In seriousness, though, I think Dorrans and Thompson could work together well, even in a 4-4-2. Thompson is still relatively untested, but has looked very good - he''s strong, mobile and has boundless energy. Dorrans, on the other hand, is definitely our best distributor of the ball from the back of midfield, and I think his workrate doesn''t get as much credit as it deserves. He''s not shy of getting stuck in - four bookings already will pay testament to that - and I think Tettey, while excellent at breaking up the play, too often slows the play down by not having the technical ability to play the right pass at the right time. In some ways, it''s similar to the Bradley Johnson situation - he just wasn''t technically good enough to excel in that role, despite his stamina and determination. Although I''m not suggesting we should play Tettey on the left of midfield, you understand... [:)]

[morty 0]

[quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="morty"]Becchioing[/quote]*adds to NCFC glossary*[:D]In seriousness, though, I think Dorrans and Thompson could work together well, even in a 4-4-2. Thompson is still relatively untested, but has looked very good - he''s strong, mobile and has boundless energy. Dorrans, on the other hand, is definitely our best distributor of the ball from the back of midfield, and I think his workrate doesn''t get as much credit as it deserves. He''s not shy of getting stuck in - four bookings already will pay testament to that - and I think Tettey, while excellent at breaking up the play, too often slows the play down by not having the technical ability to play the right pass at the right time. In some ways, it''s similar to the Bradley Johnson situation - he just wasn''t technically good enough to excel in that role, despite his stamina and determination. Although I''m not suggesting we should play Tettey on the left of midfield, you understand... [:)][/quote]Really right now, if we are looking at a change, I would assume to 4-4-2 then Dorrans and Thompson are our only viable, centre midfield options.So we have Thompson and Dorrans central, Lafferty and Jerome up front, I assume. Do we go all out attack with a Murphy on each wing?

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="morty"]Really right now, if we are looking at a change, I would assume to 4-4-2 then Dorrans and Thompson are our only viable, centre midfield options.So we have Thompson and Dorrans central, Lafferty and Jerome up front, I assume. Do we go all out attack with a Murphy on each wing?[/quote]Brady and Jacob, for my money. Brady has excellent delivery, more experience and more physical presence. Obviously the downside of this formation is it pretty much rules out starting Wes. Pritchard could probably play as a winger, but he''d drift infield naturally, I think, and also not offer enough support to the fullback. Another reservation with this formation is that Pinto in particular needs a bit more support from his RM, as he''s not the best defensive fullback in the business - Olsson and Brady down the left looks very strong, but if I was an opposing manager playing a 4-4-2 Norwich with Jacob and Pinto down the right, I know where I''d be looking to unlock us...