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king canary

Surplus in January

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I was just looking at the injury news for the game tonight and was reminded that Matt Jarvis is still around and injured. We''ve obviously not particularly missed him so far and once he''s fit I don''t see him ahead of either Murphy, Pritchard or even Canos so surely he''ll be joining the list of players who we''ll be looking to shift in January?

There is probably a fair chunk of wage money to be saved if we can convince desperate teams in the January window to take a punt on one of...

Mulumbu

Naismith

Jarvis

Lafferty

It doesn''t even need to be a permanent transfer- if we can loan these guys out and get them off the wage budget then that may well free up funds for a final push in January.

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I see a lot of "why haven''t we sold x"

I''m guessing it''s because nobody wants "X"

As we''ve heard recently the world of transfer and agents and managers is a murky, horrible place. I''m amazed we get any transfers going tbh.

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The four you named OP were surplus in August, imo, although Mulumbu now seems to offer a bit more and Naismith might eventually (until January at least) live up to expectations.

I''d rather have money in the bank, Maddison back, other youngsters pushed on and another striker in than any of those four.

Tony Andreu seems to do very well whenever he is shipped away from Carrow Road, but as it is now in the Scottish league I would sentiment him in the above paragraph

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Yes I understand we need to have a buying club and it isn''t easy to offload players we don''t want. My thinking is January is where you get a few ''desperation'' transfers by teams, particularly in the lower reaches of the Premier League. If come January Burnley are 18th they might be more likely to agree to pay Jarvis'' wages for the rest of the season, or if Moyes is still at Sunderland they may come back in for Naismith, offering a more attractive deal for him.

Naismith, Jarvis and Mulumbu all come with Premier League experience. Often a team battling relegation will turn to a seasoned campaigner who they think can hit the ground running. I''m hoping we might be able to take advantage of that.

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[quote user="king canary"]Yes I understand we need to have a buying club and it isn''t easy to offload players we don''t want. My thinking is January is where you get a few ''desperation'' transfers by teams, particularly in the lower reaches of the Premier League. If come January Burnley are 18th they might be more likely to agree to pay Jarvis'' wages for the rest of the season, or if Moyes is still at Sunderland they may come back in for Naismith, offering a more attractive deal for him.

Naismith, Jarvis and Mulumbu all come with Premier League experience. Often a team battling relegation will turn to a seasoned campaigner who they think can hit the ground running. I''m hoping we might be able to take advantage of that.[/quote]The way Moyes is going he won''t be there in January imo.

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We''ll need the fringe players in the squad for the EFL Cup and FA cup runs. We have the possbility of two excellent teams - a league team and a cup team.  They can both focus on their respective successes this season with no distraction.  There will be some cross over between the teams of course, but generally we have what it takes to have a successful season in all competitions.  Keep them all to the end of the season and then have a sort out if necessary.

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Personally I''d be looking to get the following out of the door by the end of the season/before next season starts:WhittakerBassongNaismithJarvisMulumbuLaffertyTurnerAndreuSome will clearly be tougher than others to move due to contracts, lack of interest etc, but this would see a substantial drop in wages whilst removing players who are clearly 4th or even 5th choice in the squad.

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Whilst I agree with the premise that theres a few that have to go, do people really believe that we can sustain a squad of 25-30 players who are all good enough to start every week?There will always be a place for squad fillers.

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I genuinely think that if someone came in for the ones indy bones just listed and probably add to Ruddy that then we wouldn''t stand in there way. Don''t think Neil will wanna lose too much in January mind but defiantly this summer there could be a big turn around no matter what division we are in.

Some big earners there not really that close to a starting position and getting them off the wage bill could be financially very helpful to Alex Neil. L

Alex Neil talked last summer of a younger squad and it''s now already starting to take shape.

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Most squads take a fairly similar shape.These figures are just representative.You will have maybe 18 players who are genuinely good enough to start in the first team every week.You will have 4 or 5 "promising youngsters", who are happy to be on the fringes because they are still developing, and have no issue being occasional players.You will have 4 or 5 squad fillers, possibly older, and quite happy to play the occasional role, without stamping their feet and demanding a transfer.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Personally I''d be looking to get the following out of the door by the end of the season/before next season starts:WhittakerBassongNaismithJarvisMulumbuLaffertyTurnerAndreuSome will clearly be tougher than others to move due to contracts, lack of interest etc, but this would see a substantial drop in wages whilst removing players who are clearly 4th or even 5th choice in the squad.[/quote]Spot on. With Godfrey, Thompson and Maddison good enough to feature in the first team squad, plus one or two other youth-teamers likely to be good enough to do likewise next season (Cantwell for example?), we could shift all eight of those players and use them to sign a young CB such as Onguéné, another utility defender and two strikers. Obviously if we do get promoted then the targets may change, but getting rid of that lot would raise a bit of case and probably cut about £200k per week off the wage bill!

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Agree with that list indy bones. My honesty feeling is that apart from Bassong we could happily lose all of these players now without having to sign a replacement due to how overstocked we are in some positions.

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Why not Hoggs? Whitts won''t be going anywhere this season, but I''m sure we could do without Naismith & Jarvis, I would add Bassong to that list with a new young CB as a replacement.

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"due to how overstocked we are in some positions.2

We are overstocked and the more some of these surplus to requirements players eat up in wages the less we will have to spend in the transfer market in the foreseeable future.

Maintaining players such as Lafferty, Andreu, and others not fancied by the manager, on the wages bill constantly eats into the bank balance without providing any remote chance of the Club getting value for money.

As with RVW it comes to the stage whereby it is more economical to unload them cheaply rather than keep them at the Club.

Whether or not this will become the situation with Naismith (or even Mulumbu) remains to be seen. We live in the hope that it doesn''t.

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[quote user="hogesar"]From that list, not sure i''d want rid of Whittaker, Naismith or Jarvis just yet.[/quote]I don''t get that either Hog.Whittaker is struggling to hold onto being 3rd choice right back as it is behind Pinto and Martin, and I personally would rather play Godfrey there if they were both unavailable than let Whittaker loose again!Jarvis is a bit of a sick note, and on current form he''s got no chance of displacing the Murphys for startes, nor does he offer that pace, directness and goal threat that they do either - even if his crossing is probably slightly better. I''d also rather play Canos or Pritchard on the wings ahead of him, meaning again we''re paying for someone who''s 4th choice at best!Naismith is probably the most difficult out of the three, but if an offer came in from Sunderland in Jan that could match his demands, I personally think it could be better for the club to let the move happen, that is unless we see some sort of vast improvement over the next couple of months to justify otherwise.

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In January Naismith could also be 4th choice behind Wes, Pritchard and Maddison.

Jarvis is also rumoured to be on some extremely high wages for us so shifting him makes quite bit of sense.

If come January we had a squad that looked like this...

GK- Ruddy, McGovern, Jones

RB- Pinto, Martin, Godfrey

CB- Klose, Martin, Bassong, Bennett

LB- Olsson, Brady

CM- Howson, Dorrans, Thompson, Tettey

RW- Jacob Murphy, Canos, Pritchard

AM- Wes, Maddison, Pritchard

LW- Brady, Josh Murphy, Pritchard

CF- Jerome, Oliveria, AN OTHER

This is based on us moving on Mulumbu, Naismith, Jarvis, Whittaker and Lafferty.

It involves a few people covering multiple positions (Martin as both a centre back and back up RB, Brady for left back and left wing) but it is easily strong enough to go up without any replacements signed.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="hogesar"]From that list, not sure i''d want rid of Whittaker, Naismith or Jarvis just yet.[/quote]I don''t get that either Hog.Whittaker is struggling to hold onto being 3rd choice right back as it is behind Pinto and Martin, and I personally would rather play Godfrey there if they were both unavailable than let Whittaker loose again!Jarvis is a bit of a sick note, and on current form he''s got no chance of displacing the Murphys for startes, nor does he offer that pace, directness and goal threat that they do either - even if his crossing is probably slightly better. I''d also rather play Canos or Pritchard on the wings ahead of him, meaning again we''re paying for someone who''s 4th choice at best!Naismith is probably the most difficult out of the three, but if an offer came in from Sunderland in Jan that could match his demands, I personally think it could be better for the club to let the move happen, that is unless we see some sort of vast improvement over the next couple of months to justify otherwise.[/quote]
Obviously just my opinion, but if Pinto was injured I wouldn''t necessarily want to change AN''s preferred CB pairing (Martin and Klose) so would rather have Whittaker at RB.
I quite like Jarvis - despite his poor injury record with us I think he could do a good job in the Championship and his work rate is pretty good too. We don''t know if the Murphy''s will last the season and if both hit bad form, or both of Canos and Pritchard, even as an option on the bench I think it''s worthwhile.
Naismith I think will be quite dependent on Maddison - if he continues in his current form for Aberdeen I wouldn''t be too disappointed to see Naismith go mainly because he''ll be on ridiculous wages and we might get a half decent fee for him.

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If people looked at the starting XIs which AN puts out for League games, they might be less ready to push our youngsters forward as capable squad fillers at the expense of more battle-hardened players. Fact is that, the two Cup games and Birmingham apart (and we saw what happened at Birmingham), AN doesn''t start with more than one youngster (and to date that has included Pritchard, though I don''t put him in the same "youngster" bracket as e.g. Canos, Maddison, Godfrey, Thompson or even the Murphy twins). Like hogesar says, the number of players we could reasonably afford to offload in January is much smaller than is being suggested. If and when we are resigned to spending a further two or three seasons in the Championship, that will be the time to do root and branch pruning.

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