Running your club properly.

[morty 0]

Details have emerged as to just how badly Newcastle United are run. Turns out Jonjo Shelvey is on 80k a week, with no relegation clause in his contract.Also emerged that none of the other players signed in January had relegation clauses either.Coupled with how much money they are likely throwing at Benitez, relegation could be very awkward indeed for the toon!

[birchfest 401]

Looking out the behaviour and fortune of some of our peers, both in this league and below, I still find it hard to fathom when people get angry at McNally and the board or suggest we are poorly run.

Mistakes, yes... In footballing terms, but thats the nature of the beast. But in terms of contracts and infastructure? There won''t be any players on rediculous contracts with no clauses, and we have done a ''Wolves'' who have there fancy new stand which is stood half empty in the lower reaches of the championship.

I don''t think Newcastle or Villa are going to find it the cake walk they expect next season.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Agreed, but if we stay up a hand grenade will likely be put underneath our much-vaunted wage structure and it could be blown sky high...... starting with the Mbokani issue should it evolve that he remains at Carrow Road.

West Ham, for example, are reportedly paying Payet over £80, 000 pw. plus bonusses and there are much bigger ''payers'' than them in the league. They will likely be lining up equally "expensive" additions now that they are assured of next season''s money ... a luxury we don''t yet have.

[morty 0]

[quote user="birchfest"]Looking out the behaviour and fortune of some of our peers, both in this league and below, I still find it hard to fathom when people get angry at McNally and the board or suggest we are poorly run.

Mistakes, yes... In footballing terms, but thats the nature of the beast. But in terms of contracts and infastructure? There won''t be any players on rediculous contracts with no clauses, and we have done a ''Wolves'' who have there fancy new stand which is stood half empty in the lower reaches of the championship.

I don''t think Newcastle or Villa are going to find it the cake walk they expect next season.[/quote]I think a dreadful complacency and business like bloating seems to occur, perhaps an arrogance that it would never actually come to relegation. It happened at Leeds, the club was rotten to the core from top to bottom, and they still haven''t recovered yet.Villa and Toon need to be very, very careful how they manage the next 12 months, and learn some lessons.

[morty 0]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Agreed, but if we stay up a hand grenade will likely be put underneath our much-vaunted wage structure and it could be blown sky high...... starting with the Mbokani issue should it evolve that he remains at Carrow Road.

West Ham, for example, are reportedly paying Payet over £80, 000 pw. plus bonusses and there are much bigger ''payers'' than them in the league. They will likely be lining up equally "expensive" additions now that they are assured of next season''s money ... a luxury we don''t yet have.[/quote]I doubt we would be so stupid though as to make deals that just clearly aren''t worth the money, remember we still have Ricky on pay for all of next season.West Ham have always had plenty of money, and I should imagine 80k for Payet is actually looking like money well spent.

[AJ 1,358]

I''ve been told that Villa are in a similar position where a number of their longer serving players do not have relegation release clauses etc. in their contracts due to the fact they were an established Premier League side at the time. But their situation doesn''t sound as bad as Newcastle throwing money around in January - I''m glad it hasn''t really worked for them in that respect. Let''s not forget that Newcastle did go down a few years ago and come back up instantly and didn''t suffer too badly financially - I just wonder if that''ll be different this time around. I wonder if Mitrovich can do it on a wet tuesday night in Millwall...

[OldRobert 38]

Didn''t I read somewhere that West Ham have been able to increase their capacity at the Olympic Stadium due to the demand for STs?  As you say Morty I think 80k/week for Payet is going to turn out to be small beer for them.

[morty 0]

[quote user="OldRobert"]Didn''t I read somewhere that West Ham have been able to increase their capacity at the Olympic Stadium due to the demand for STs?  As you say Morty I think 80k/week for Payet is going to turn out to be small beer for them.[/quote]Oh, you mean their shiny new stadium, that all of us, as taxpayers, paid for?

[morty 0]

[quote user="AJ"]I''ve been told that Villa are in a similar position where a number of their longer serving players do not have relegation release clauses etc. in their contracts due to the fact they were an established Premier League side at the time. But their situation doesn''t sound as bad as Newcastle throwing money around in January - I''m glad it hasn''t really worked for them in that respect. Let''s not forget that Newcastle did go down a few years ago and come back up instantly and didn''t suffer too badly financially - I just wonder if that''ll be different this time around. I wonder if Mitrovich can do it on a wet tuesday night in Millwall...[/quote]It will be very interesting just who stays at Newcastle. Talking to a Geordie mate some time ago, we were bemoaning the fact that there wasn''t one Geordie in the team, not one player who it actually meant some thing to, to pull on the shirt.I reckon most of them are planning their exit already.

[OldRobert 38]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="OldRobert"]Didn''t I read somewhere that West Ham have been able to increase their capacity at the Olympic Stadium due to the demand for STs?  As you say Morty I think 80k/week for Payet is going to turn out to be small beer for them.[/quote]Oh, you mean their shiny new stadium, that all of us, as taxpayers, paid for?[/quote]That''s the one that you can see from the train, with the rest of the surroundings looking like a deserted playground that we also paid for.[;)]

[Lessingham Canary 108]

Suddenly the attractive parachute payments wont looks so attractive to Ashley and his board, going to cost a fortune to buy out contracts......... be interesting to see where it all ends up for them,.

Sad, as a football club, I really like Newcastle, also have some mates up their, and they are great people, a cracking stadium, aptly known locally as "the cathedral on the hill", the fans deserve so much better. IMO.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

"I doubt we would be so stupid though as to make deals that just clearly aren''t worth the money, remember we still have Ricky on pay for all of next season."

We will have to compete in the transfer stakes, otherwise we''ll continue to have to survive with more than our fair share of second-besters.

But, yes, it is a dilemna for a club of City''s size.

For example, should we survive and Mbokani wants to stay, but only if his present level of wages were to be assured, would you want us to offer him a contract?

Could we expect to do better for that regular outlay? ......... almost certainly.

Could we actually find better offering that outlay? ........ ..... debateable (and we also bring in the well-worn unfashionable/remote/survival factors as well as finance.)

If we kept him on on this basis would it likely herald a new era of Norwich City in the big time (cv ITFC for eg.) ....... almost certainly.

The "new" money is a massive step forward in income terms. It will be reflected in outgoings ... fees and wages for a starters.

[PurpleCanary 6,381]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]Agreed, but if we stay up a hand grenade will likely be put underneath our much-vaunted wage structure and it could be blown sky high...... starting with the Mbokani issue should it evolve that he remains at Carrow Road.

West Ham, for example, are reportedly paying Payet over £80, 000 pw. plus bonusses and there are much bigger ''payers'' than them in the league. They will likely be lining up equally "expensive" additions now that they are assured of next season''s money ... a luxury we don''t yet have.[/quote]I doubt we would be so stupid though as to make deals that just clearly aren''t worth the money, remember we still have Ricky on pay for all of next season.West Ham have always had plenty of money, and I should imagine 80k for Payet is actually looking like money well spent.[/quote]That didn''t happen the last time there was what was supposed to be the TV deal to end all TV deals, for the three seasons ending with this one. Our wage bill under the old TV deal was about £47m and only went up to £54m for the first season under the new deal, despite getting in van Wolfswinkel, Fer etc etc etc, and the TV money helping increase our income from about £70m to £94m.So we resisted the temptation then, and the club is still (with the exception of Bowkett leaving and Balls joining) in essence still being run by the same people.

[King Klose 0]

What if Newcastle stay up?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Al Harrington"]What if Newcastle stay up?[/quote]Then nothing will change, they will limp along, same as ever.Personally, and hearing the stories coming out of the dressing room, I think they are well on their way.

[morty 0]

Mike Ashley speaking 11 months ago.Clicky linky thing.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Al Harrington"]What if Newcastle stay up?[/quote]

Then nothing will change, they will limp along, same as ever.

Personally, and hearing the stories coming out of the dressing room, I think they are well on their way.
[/quote]

 

Don''t tease us Morty, give us details.

 

 

 

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Al Harrington"]What if Newcastle stay up?[/quote]Then nothing will change, they will limp along, same as ever.Personally, and hearing the stories coming out of the dressing room, I think they are well on their way.[/quote]

 

Don''t tease us Morty, give us details.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]No teasing, I assume everyone reads the same news reports I do? It was along the lines of Rafa was utterly bemused that the players can look so great in training, but so utterly awful on matchday. The simple answer is that they have no heart and no fight for their team. And that they are all but resigned to relegation already.We shouldn''t underestimate just how much of a stunning blow our last minute winner was, against them.

[Essex_Canary 6]

I think the biggest issue for Newcastle is the fortunes of Mike Ashley''s business empire. He has got away with not putting money into the club which has been fine with Premier League TV cash forming a huge slice of their income. Now, with every likelihood that they''ll be relegated and the TV significantly reduced, is the time the club needs the owner to put his hand in his pockets to plug the gaps in the finances, yet now is also the time that Sports Direct is issuing profit warnings and underperforming against targets. He doesn''t seem the type to want to give up control in return for external investment so they could find themselves in real trouble if they can''t get their finances under control, reduce wages, move overpaid and under performing players on!

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Re: breaking through the (wages glass ceiling.)

"That didn''t happen the last time there was what was supposed to be the TV deal to end all TV deals, for the three seasons ending with this one."

True, but we are again threatened with relegation. Many quote our Summer dealings as being the underlying reason for this. Perhaps the terms we offered were the underlying reason for failing to land one or two of our reported targets in the Summer.

I suggest that we may already have taken a significant step upwards in this respect in securing both Naismith and Klose in the last window.

[morty 0]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Re: breaking through the (wages glass ceiling.)

"That didn''t happen the last time there was what was supposed to be the TV deal to end all TV deals, for the three seasons ending with this one."

True, but we are again threatened with relegation. Many quote our Summer dealings as being the underlying reason for this. Perhaps the terms we offered were the underlying reason for failing to land one or two of our reported targets in the Summer.

I suggest that we may already have taken a significant step upwards in this respect in securing both Naismith and Klose in the last window.[/quote]Paying more wages does not guarantee we won''t be flirting with relegation next season.

[FenwayFrank 2,717]

It can be done, Stoke had a strict wage structure for a number of seasons, they still got players in.

[morty 0]

[quote user="FenwayFrank"]It can be done, Stoke had a strict wage structure for a number of seasons, they still got players in.[/quote]Really its down to good scouting, and having a football business brain.Using a simple formula of "Will this individual player improve our side, does the investment in him provide value for money, what length of contract shall we offer him, and what clauses shall we write into it?"

[AJ 1,358]

Morty, going back to your reply to me you are probably right. I reckon a large number of the squad will leave, and I can imagine the same for Villa. Aside of one or two just like last time we went down, I can''t imagine many leaving us if the worst happened and that has got to count for something in the fight to stay up. We do seem to have a very together squad spirit as we saw after beating Newcastle. Hopefully that''ll help us get the points we need.

[morty 0]

[quote user="AJ"]Morty, going back to your reply to me you are probably right. I reckon a large number of the squad will leave, and I can imagine the same for Villa. Aside of one or two just like last time we went down, I can''t imagine many leaving us if the worst happened and that has got to count for something in the fight to stay up. We do seem to have a very together squad spirit as we saw after beating Newcastle. Hopefully that''ll help us get the points we need.[/quote]Really, if you analyse it further, it dovetails neatly into "cutting your cloth accordingly".If you have fancy dan players that are better, individually than your club, as a whole, then they are likely to show much loyalty.I think that both Newcastle, and especially Villa, have been punching above their self perceived weight, for some time now.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Agree about Villa, they could be in a right mess next season. I can''t see their big wage earners hanging around (mind you, who would take any of them?), and despite what their own fans may dream, there are better options, in the Championship, to go to

Newcastle, thankfully, hung in to Schteve for way too long (not that they should have appointed him in the first place imo).

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

"Paying more wages does not guarantee we won''t be flirting with relegation next season."

That goes without say, but anything that can contribute towards a better quality squad will be a measure towards avoiding that.

We haven''t survived yet, but we have a better chance now than both Newcastle and Sunderland surely.

Both these clubs almost certainly pay more than we do and nothing really can be singled out as a defining factor in constant survival.

Next season''s increased Premiership money could perceivably mark a watershed in our traditional policy of being somewhat prudent.

It is a delicate balancing act for a club like City and McNally & Co.will always have to walk on a more precarious tightrope than most others in the PL.

Neither am I advocating that we start paying/offering silly money (the obscene amounts) but we will still need to continuously up the wages anti in order to survive at the top table.