Twenty Is Plenty Protest.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Just found this on my wall on Facebook.http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/nationwide-twentys-plentyLooks like it is taking place at the Leicester game which clashes with the Refugee Crisis Appeal mentioned on the club official site. Anybody know what the FSF are planning locally ?

[Norfolk Mustard 106]

I like the idea of ''Twenty is Plenty'' - regardless of what''s happened off the pitch over the past few years, we''re still just a bunch of people watching a game of footie aren''t we?

The quality of the game hasn''t improved by the same % as entry prices, that''s for sure...

[Dicky 0]

I''m going to protest about too many protests....

Or I might just enjoy going to the footie and ignore all of the peripheral b0ll0cks

[Benjamin (Bradford) 0]

Carrow Road capacity expansion would be lovely. The price is higher than £20 because current demand outstrips availability. It would be lovely to put a 2nd tier on the City stand if (& I believe when) we achieve safety and the resulting windfall in remaining in the top tier of league football...

[TIL 1010 5,246]

My question as to what the FSF are planning for Carrow Road seems to have drawn a blank.

[Ivor Know 0]

The FSF launched its "Twenty is Plenty" weekend for a nationwide protests at ticket prices at football matches way back early in August.

The Club''s decision to support the Refugee Appeal was only announced on the 12 September.

Coincidence or cynical timing? Let''s leave that to individuals to decide?

[TIL 1010 5,246]

I think i am correct in saying that the Refugee Appeal is at all PL grounds on that weekend and anyway why would the club be concerned about one man and his dog turning up for the Twenty is Plenty.

[Highland Canary 78]

Football is a luxury good and prices simply reflects this fact. As long as demand exceeds supply, prices will remain as now. If individuals believe in market intervention perhaps a starting would be the election of a Corbyn led government.

[Ivor Know 0]

Absolutely nothing on the Premier League website to suggest that all clubs are doing collections that weekend.

If they are, that will just add to the cynicism towards their timing, given that there are two full Premier League programmes between now and then.

[ca 1]

Don''t know and haven''t heard anything about the £20 is plenty day tbh but I do know that NCFC wrote to all the fans groups yesterday and asked if we would help with the bucket collections before the Leic game so I''m sure that the fans group who are able to make the game will respond positively with 1/2 volunteers each to help them out.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="Ivor Know"]Absolutely nothing on the Premier League website to suggest that all clubs are doing collections that weekend.

If they are, that will just add to the cynicism towards their timing, given that there are two full Premier League programmes between now and then.[/quote]Yeah i now see that it is not all being held on that weekend but was launched on Friday 11th September only some 24 hours before our game v Bournemouth so obviously no time at all for NCFC to organise anything. Our next Premier fixture since Bournemouth will not be until 3rd October which is the first opportunity to get involved and do our bit.http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2015-16/sep/110915-premier-league-and-save-the-children-unite-on-refugees.htmlI note Ivor that you state the FSF Twenty is Plenty campaign weekend was ''launched way back in August'' so maybe you can point me in the direction of where this has been published locally with the view of embracing Norwich fans ?

[Ivor Know 0]

CityAngel - are the Norwich City Fans Social Club volunteers going to be joining the other supporters groups with a volunteer or two to assist with the bucket collection?

[Ivor Know 0]

TIL 1010 - can''t really answer your question, as not seen anything myself either.

Suspect FSF are coordinating this with local fans groups - BEprojekt being the obvious one - and all the planning is probably behind the scenes at the moment.

At a guess, will probably go public after next weekend''s games?

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Thanks for that  Ivor but as you mentioned the BEprojekt like i said....one man and his dog.

[Thomo 0]

The BEProjekt man only be one man and his dog TIL, but the club still went out of their way to contact us regarding our involvement in the FSF''s protest. The BEProjekt, along with representatives from Forces2Canaries, Canaries Trust and some of the regional supporters groups will be having a static protest behind the Barclay End before the Leicester game, where FSF and BEP literature will be handed out regarding NATIONAL ticket prices. It''s not about causing a scene, attacking our club or its board members like the Derby fans did, it is merely to unite fans and express our frustration at being gradually priced out of the game we all love attending.  Some Leicester fan groups will also be joining us. We have discussed ticketing prices within Carrow Road at length with some of the club''s higher profile staff, and we agree with some of the points they have made regarding supply and demand,  However, if the premier league itself is making money available to clubs to subsidize the price of away tickets, and clubs (including ourselves) are doing this initiatives of their own accord too to ensure more away fans attend , then surely it only goes to prove just how ludicrous its got in the first place.I hope some of the guys reading this come along and join the protest, if only momentarily to receive some literature. We are all in this together.

[ca 1]

[quote user="Ivor Know"]CityAngel - are the Norwich City Fans Social Club volunteers going to be joining the other supporters groups with a volunteer or two to assist with the bucket collection?[/quote]

Yes I''ve already spoken to Emma of the CSF who''s coordinating the day to get timings and have  emailed our group to ask for volunteers to help with the bucket collection. Im pretty sure we''ll have a couple to represent us so along with all the other volunteers from the other fans groups there should be enough people

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Thomo"]The BEProjekt man only be one man and his dog TIL, but the club still went out of their way to contact us regarding our involvement in the FSF''s protest. The BEProjekt, along with representatives from Forces2Canaries, Canaries Trust and some of the regional supporters groups will be having a static protest behind the Barclay End before the Leicester game, where FSF and BEP literature will be handed out regarding NATIONAL ticket prices. It''s not about causing a scene, attacking our club or its board members like the Derby fans did, it is merely to unite fans and express our frustration at being gradually priced out of the game we all love attending.  Some Leicester fan groups will also be joining us. We have discussed ticketing prices within Carrow Road at length with some of the club''s higher profile staff, and we agree with some of the points they have made regarding supply and demand,  However, if the premier league itself is making money available to clubs to subsidize the price of away tickets, and clubs (including ourselves) are doing this initiatives of their own accord too to ensure more away fans attend , then surely it only goes to prove just how ludicrous its got in the first place.I hope some of the guys reading this come along and join the protest, if only momentarily to receive some literature. We are all in this together.[/quote]I am grateful to you for coming on here to explain things Thomo and for

that you should be applauded, as many of today''s supporters groups seem

to be run as secret societies lurking in the shadows.I

completely agree with the sentiment that football is too expensive but I

can''t agree with this campaign. To quote from the FSF site "The

Football Supporters’ Federation (FSF) says the problem of high ticket

prices runs throughout the professional game and says fans from all

leagues back the FSF’s “Twenty’s Plenty for Away Tickets” campaign". It makes no sense.As an occasional goodwill gesture it''s ok, as happens now, but what if it was the norm?You

would have home fans paying £40/50 per ticket to sit at one end of the

Jarrold whilst visiting fans were paying just £20 to sit at the other

end, and yet some of those home fans have probably travelled from much

further away than the visitors. So how can you have two different prices for exactly the same product?If

the protest was about ticket prices across the board I feel you would

get more support, but I feel this campaign is misguided at best. I can''t

think of a sporting event anywhere in the world where ticket prices are

gauged on the distance a purchaser has to travel.Finally, you

state "We are all in this together", but are we? I welcome your input on

this board and hope that other fans groups will join in as it''s only

open debate that will garner support (or otherwise) for these causes.

Claiming to speak for fans without seeking their opinions first seems

the wrong way to go about it. I hope all the supporters groups you name

get involved in this discussion and then perhaps us doubters can be

convinced and give your protest the encouragement you need.

[Ivor Know 0]

The issue of what to do with ticket prices is a tricky one.

To expect clubs to introduce a universal price reduction for all supporters is, in itself, a huge ask and probably never likely to happen. That''s probably why a targeted campaign, focused upon away fans, at least has a more realistic chance of succeeding?

There is also an issue with clubs offering subsidies to its own supporters on away games, as it does nothing to actually encourage the home team to reduce its prices.

HiIf, for example, the home team charges £50 an adult ticket, they receive the same income as if the away team charges £30 a ticket to its supporters, with a £20 subsidy.

Finally, i suspect that none of these groups, from the FSF downwards, is claiming to represent the views of all supporters.

They do seem to believe that prices are too expensive generally, and, more importantly, trying initiatives aimed at making football more affordable for the casual supporter, those who can''t necessarily afford a season ticket.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

One of the big problems I see is that like it or not season ticket holders are the most important source of ticket revenue to to a football club. If Norwich City are selling match tickets to away fans for far less money than their own season ticket holders are paying for equivalent seats they will upset their own valued customers. The fact that our fans would also be paying £20 for away tickets would be of little consolation because the vast majority of season ticket holders don''t go to matches away from home.

 

 

[Ivor Know 0]

If you start from the basis that you shouldn''t charge £20 for away supporters because home fans in an equivalent part of the ground are charged more, or, secondly, that price would be less per game than paid by your season ticket holders, you''re never going to make any progress on this issue.

Causal and season ticket prices vary from club to club and you''ll never get agreement on an appropriate benchmark.

The twenty is plenty campaign is focusing on a specific group, away fans, who, typically, make up circa ten per cent of attendances. It''s a winnable battle.

If it succeeds and results in some home fans "getting upset" maybe they need to get a sense of perspective in their lives!!

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="Ivor Know"]

If it succeeds and results in some home fans "getting upset" maybe they need to get a sense of perspective in their lives!![/quote]What a silly thing to go and say Ivor especially as i read earlier in this thread that the Barclay End Projekt said " We are all in this together " ! That does not wash with me as a small group who as far as i am aware are not voted in by the fans with some form of constitution or rules to govern do not represent me and i have perspective in my life thanks very much.

[lake district canary 4,830]

I would have thought that at Norwich, the twenty is plenty is not so far off the mark. Most season ticket holders on average pay only just over that now.  The issue at our club is therefore only of interest to casuals and away fans.  "Twenty is plenty" is a good tag line, but if prices were lowered  a little for away fans and casuals, it would not make such a great difference to clubs in the premier league whose main income is from TV money.  For me £30 is a more acceptable top price for a normal seat at CR, with lesser games at around £25.   Twenty is a good aim, but not likely to happen - but it may start to put a little more pressure on clubs to reduce prices a little bit.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

You are wrong Lakey as for this current season the cheapest adult season ticket in the ground works out at just over £26 and mine is £29.50. It can go up to over £800 for the season in certain seats.

[lake district canary 4,830]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]You are wrong Lakey as for this current season the cheapest adult season ticket in the ground works out at just over £26 and mine is £29.50. It can go up to over £800 for the season in certain seats.[/quote]I stand corrected. Last time I looked, the average was around £23. Must have been a while ago.  

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TIL 1010"]You are wrong Lakey as for this current season the cheapest adult season ticket in the ground works out at just over £26 and mine is £29.50. It can go up to over £800 for the season in certain seats.[/quote]I stand corrected. Last time I looked, the average was around £23. Must have been a while ago.  

[/quote]£26 and £29.50 is obviously per game.

[Thomo 0]

Unless you have some way of getting a discounted ticket price that the rest of us are unaware of, then we ARE all in this together. Anyone who wishes to travel away to see their club, regardless of the team they support has to pay a ridiculous price for a ticket.I''m not suggesting that the BEP represent you, I''m suggesting that as a football fan, you are also subjected to the same price for a matchday ticket as the rest of us. The arguement has been made here that it would not be right for away fans to pay less than home fans. The reality is, that this happens the opposite way round practically every week, Most of us pay around £26 a game for our season tickets, whilst away fans (and any casual fans in home ends) get charged at least £10 more than that figure to attend the same fixture.We are not charged anymore than our £26 for the priviledge of watching Man Utd visit our club, so why should a United fan be charged nearly double for the same game, not just at Carrow Road, but at every ground they visit. Each and every away game, that United fan has to find an extra £15 or so, than perhaps our visit to the Hawthorns, Upton Park or Brittania would for you or I, just because they grew up as a red in greater manchester. The issue is football being affordable for all classes of fans.Away fans are just as important to a football match as the home fans are.* leave the "they probably only supported united when they started winning things" comments out. Most of the tourist Man Utd fans go to Old Trafford, not travel to away matches.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

No Thomo we are not all in this together as you have no mandate to say that you are acting on behalf of all fans. Anyway who are The Barclay End Projekt as there is no information available as far as i can see so please don''t try and put me in your camp as i have no idea who you are. At least with people like The Trust we know that they are headed by Robin Sainty but yourselves and the FSF have no local based figureheads who us NCFC fans can relate to.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Thomo"]Unless you have some way of getting a discounted ticket price that the rest of us are unaware of, then we ARE all in this together. Anyone who wishes to travel away to see their club, regardless of the team they support has to pay a ridiculous price for a ticket.[/quote]Nobody HAS to pay ridiculous prices Thomo, they choose to. Tomorrow is a good example. Travelling Ipswich fans (normally around 1,000) are taking 4,500 to Old Trafford for a League Cup game to watch what will probably be United''s reserve team and the tickets? £45.00 each.They are obviously not ALL in it together, or has no-one told them?

 

[Thomo 0]

Lappin, You are right, no one is forced to go watch their team away from home, however, if they choose to do so, they do have to pay the high prices. I understand that you are saying 4500 ipswich fans are going to Old Trafford of their own free will, but i''m pretty sure that not one of those fans would have complained if it was a few quid cheaper to get their ticket.TIL,I''m a little miffed that you started a thread asking if anything was taking place, and then when I answer your query, i''m the target for your frustrations about who our group does or doesn''t represent.The BEP was formed by three of us, and we have no membership scheme. It remains 3 of us, and we are in contact with many fans who share the same opinions about things such as ticketing prices, including Robin Sainty and the other fan groups i mentioned earlier.If its specifics you want about each member of the group, then come along to the protest (in a non protesting manner) and make yourself known to Robin Sainty, or one of the other faces you recognise and i''m sure myself, Thomas and Dave will all shake your hand and give you any information about us that you want to find out. We don''t hide away behind rocks, Tom writes for MFW and we have our BEP social media channels and our own personal accounts which many, many Norwich fans have contacted us via. We are just ordinary norwich city fans and would like to see the atmosphere improve, would like to see standing return to grounds in the uk and would like football to be more affordable for the everyday fan.I''m not going to sit on a forum getting annoyed by responses from people with different opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, We have just taken the opportunity to share our views with the leicester fans and the FSF, in an organised, peaceful protest. If you want to get hung up on the specific wording that we are all in it together, then thats your prerogative. But, I do feel that football fans, in general, pay too much to watch football matches, and i would like a change in pricing structures nationally to enable us ALL to watch our teams at a more affordable price. Thanks for your time.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Thomo"]But, I do feel that football fans, in general, pay too much to watch football matches, and i would like a change in pricing structures nationally to enable us ALL to watch our teams at a more affordable price.[/quote]And there we have total agreement.If you (and FSF) were involved in a campaign involving all clubs across the leagues with the aim of getting a price cap on ALL tickets then I''m sure you would get a huge support, but to single out a particular section in my view, is a mistake.Good luck with it anyway.