The Great Mass Debater

[quote user="Mervmeister"]Loads of rumours flying around we have agrees a £6m fee and a 40k a week deal with them and the player!! Would be awesome if true.[/quote] I think we should simply bask in the warm glow of being linked with such a quality player. After having been dismissed as a Premiership force the last two seasons, the fact that the media see this as plausible is a nice shift in attitude towards our club. I suspect we are being used to flush out a bid from a bigger club, but its nice to rub shoulders with some of these names.

[quote user="frogusmaximus"]Ignoring Bates and his complete lack of investment in players diuring the last 6 years (we had the best wage to turnover ratio) whilst he bled the club dry, there were three main issues.1. Woeful defensive frailty, especially at set pieces. Kisnorbo and Naylor led us out of league one but both were injured. The former had been almost perfect at that level and was never the same player again after missing the whole season. Grayson brought in O''Brien on big money. Fantastic on loan, he simply lost it mentally (fiance troubles we heard).2. Left back - had been a problem position for more years than you care to remember and never adressed.3. Holding midfield - Leeds had Bradley Johnson (BJ) and Kilkenny who were just bloody awful. When we played with two central midfielders we were simply overrun by every team and couldn''t find a partnership that worked, so we used Howson in front of them. Kilkenny was a sideways passer (a playmaker who flattered to deceive - now enjoying his big money contract at relegated Bristol City) who couldn''t run and covered little ground. BJ was a headless chicken, blazing shots over the bar and with both an awful passing accuracy and pass selection.The thing BJ had was commitment, physical strength and an aerial threat. He needed to be told to give a simple pass, to recognise his strengths and weakneness. He was the most criticised player in the team at the time as he''d win the ball and then give it away with a misplaced pass. He''d dribble when he should have passed and passed when he should have dribbled. Very few were sad when his contract ran out - he was going to be a squad player but wanted a salary on a par with Howson - and all of us have been amazed at how his reputation has developed. I''m assuming he learnt his lesson, though be interested to hear your opinions. [/quote] For me? Nope. Your description of him is exactly how I would describe his performances over the last 2 seasons. He doesnt appear to have developed at all really. You get what you get with BJ. Some fans felt he should be player of the season, only missing one game and all, and yes, he always put in great commitment. But his shooting is still woeful. Full of power but never ever anywhere near on target, and his choice to shoot is always a frustrating one. Cant pass generally, and works much better when he can win the ball and lay it off to a playmaker like Hoolahan or Fox. For me he is still a headless chicken, bit like Darel Russell. I have nothing against BJ, I just think it is misguided to hail him as one of our reasons for success last season. yes he played to the best of his abilities, but for me, it was mainly the limitations of central midfield (of which he formed 50%) that held us back so much last season. BJ, for me, is the main player we should be looking to upgrade upon this season. We need a central midfielder who can do everything. We need a single player who can destroy like BJ, pass like Fox, move like (Jagger) Tettey, invent like Hoolahan, shoot like Butterfield and with the class of Howson. All our midfielders have their qualities, but lack so fundamentally in others. You almost need to play all of them to get the components you need for midfield, whereas a Gerrard has all these abilities in one player. Im not for a second saying a Gerrard is not a very special player, but this type of all rounder is where we should be looking as a priority in my opinion. Before we got rid of all the strikers (making new strikers the main priority) central midfield was the place we needed better players most in my opinion.

[quote user="frogusmaximus"]Ok, here is the Becchio side of things as far as the LUFC fanbase know it.Great player for LUFC, never caused a problem and he will not be a trouble maker, cult hero with the fanbase.Having now experienced Warnock, we understand how he works. He is very good at playing his little press games, but slowly the truth unravels. LUFC played the worst football I''ve ever seen under Warnock. He has his favourite players, he signed, and never criticises them in public. Certian other players, Becchio and Lees, were repeatedly singled out. Becchio amazingly scored 19 goals (some were penalties) with almost zero service from out wide. He is a great finisher when in the box, with both head and feet and knows exactly where to go to score. He single handedly kept us from relegation last year, as we would almost certainly have gone down without those goals. Outside the box, Becchio needs to keep it simple. He cannot dribble and his first touch in not too good, but then my memories are diminished with constant hoofs from the back he was suppoed to make something of.Anyhow, so Warnock starts a press campaign. starting slowly with his assistant manager stating the big clubs will be in for Becchio in the January transfer window. Pretty clear Warnock wants him out. Becchio understandably wasn''t happy with the style of play or manager mutterings, but didn''t look to instigate. Anyhow this builds by the week until Leeds get outplayed horribly by Barnsley. This is a signifiacnt fixture for us as Grayson also left his post following a horrow show there. Leeds had been lifeless in the previous away fixture at Hull and it was the fourth away defeat in a row where we had hardly had a shot on goal or competed. The fanbase had finally sussed Warnock and wanted him out but the new owners were afraid as Warnock talks the talk and they knew nothing about football.Canny Warnock diverts the pressure and blames Becchio and his attitude. He initiates the exchange deal claiming Morison will go down as a legend. I''ve seen Morison before. He is garbage with a woeful lower league technique and Becchio was my favourite player. Not the best player but he did the business and gave a shit. From day one it was clear Morison didn''t. He made no effort at all and was dreadful, despite his obvious lack of fitness. Brian McDermott dropped him and has now loaned him out. Once again we are lumbered with a high wage earner (reputedly £17K a week) who we simply don''t want and no-one else can afford.Yes, Norwich got the better deal. Becchio will natuarlly be frustrated and I suspect he is not Premiership class, but he is a good guy with the right attitude. By the way, the word is out he is available for a season long loan to Championship clubs, so expect some movement.MOT[/quote] Thanks very much for that insight. Find it interesting how you have described Moro. Did well in terms of goals in the first half of our first season but then never really looked interested after that. You wont have to search very hard on this board to find the majority opinion on Moro''s work ethic. People with good intentions tried to defend him and say it was just his playing style, like Berbatov, but it always appeared to me that he had the wrong attitude - interesting how quickly Leeds fans have also noticed this

[quote user="Canary Ascent"]It wasn''t a quote in reference to a move to Norwich either. It was said at least three months ago http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2306186/Ajax-Belgium-defender-Toby-Alderweireld-gives-green-light-Liverpool-move.html He may have changed his opinion.[/quote] Indeed. Marc "I''ll never play for Norwich" Tierney and Alan "I''d never play for Man U" Smith come to mind...

[quote user="Unhinged Canary"][quote user="The Great Mass Debater"][quote user="Unhinged Canary"]SPAG?[/quote] Spelling Punctuation And Grammar :)[/quote]Ahh, that makes more sense. My cunning ruse failed.I presumed it was just SPelling And Grammar, so was going to contest the use of the ''P''. Touché![URL=http://s589.photobucket.com/user/dmacca666/media/3ozhve.jpg.html][IMG]http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss331/dmacca666/3ozhve.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/quote] Made me chuckle :)

[quote user="Unhinged Canary"]SPAG?[/quote] Spelling Punctuation And Grammar :)

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"][quote user="Joanna Grey"]Hoolahan is an Attacking Mid-fielder as evidenced by his tracking back and harrying of the opposition''s defence. Quagliarella is a Secondary Striker, his job is primarily to score goals or assist in them. There''s a fine line between the two roles defined usually by the player themselves. Quagliarella would probably make a fine partnership with RVW but for this to happen we would need the right supply lines in place.[/quote] With all the striker turfing out going on, Im worried that Hughton is planning on playing the loan striker system, with both RVW and Hooper used to playing that role. Not a problem in itself, but as you''ve said, the support needs to be there, which it wasnt last season. Poor old GH cut a lonely isolated figure with everyone else focussed so much on defence. Playing a loan striker means the supporting midfielder needs to be a goal threat. As much as I love Hoolahan for his creative genius (and that we''re idea-less without him) he has never looked a direct threat on goal sice League One. If we''re not going to play 2 strikers, the system requires someone to support from deep. With Toivonen looked at and Quagliarella a deep striker, it would seem Hughton does intend on playing with a single striker, but has identified the need to have that link up man being a direct threat as well. I remember it being said of MacNamee that he was a luxury player the team couldnt afford to carry. Supporting Norwich over the last 5 years has always involved ''The Hoolahan Conundrum'' - drop him and rob the team of creativity, or desperately find a way to accommodate him by taking from the team in different areas. With a player like Quagliarella, the conundrum would be a thing of the past. Encouraging that this type of player seems to be being coveted[/quote] That of course should be lone striker, before the SPAG police arrest me,,,

[quote user="Joanna Grey"]Hoolahan is an Attacking Mid-fielder as evidenced by his tracking back and harrying of the opposition''s defence. Quagliarella is a Secondary Striker, his job is primarily to score goals or assist in them. There''s a fine line between the two roles defined usually by the player themselves. Quagliarella would probably make a fine partnership with RVW but for this to happen we would need the right supply lines in place.[/quote] With all the striker turfing out going on, Im worried that Hughton is planning on playing the loan striker system, with both RVW and Hooper used to playing that role. Not a problem in itself, but as you''ve said, the support needs to be there, which it wasnt last season. Poor old GH cut a lonely isolated figure with everyone else focussed so much on defence. Playing a loan striker means the supporting midfielder needs to be a goal threat. As much as I love Hoolahan for his creative genius (and that we''re idea-less without him) he has never looked a direct threat on goal sice League One. If we''re not going to play 2 strikers, the system requires someone to support from deep. With Toivonen looked at and Quagliarella a deep striker, it would seem Hughton does intend on playing with a single striker, but has identified the need to have that link up man being a direct threat as well. I remember it being said of MacNamee that he was a luxury player the team couldnt afford to carry. Supporting Norwich over the last 5 years has always involved ''The Hoolahan Conundrum'' - drop him and rob the team of creativity, or desperately find a way to accommodate him by taking from the team in different areas. With a player like Quagliarella, the conundrum would be a thing of the past. Encouraging that this type of player seems to be being coveted

[quote user="Dean Coney''s boots"]People are getting a ltitle anxious (understandably) because players we are linked with want time to think. Clearly they are holding out in case a bigger club (Liverpool etc) come calling. And, be reasonable, that is fair enough given that they dont support NCFC. The good news is that if nobody comes calling then we will be in pole position with all the paperwork ready. Doubtless we will lose out on one or other but may hit lucky. This is our A list and it is the most ambitious I can ever remember. Fer and Alderwielde are HUGE. We are in with a shout and that is amazing... we may have to settle for the B list which includes Hooper et al. I smell agents everywhere. In trying to fish out big clubs by annoncing they "might" come to us and in announcing QPR etc are ready to move for Hooper to flush us out. There is a food chain and we are just one link. And wanting to push on is always tougher than standing still. We need a calibre who will not necessarily jump for joy at our calling...[/quote I just said almost the same thing on the Quagliarella thread. We''re shopping amongst the snooty now...

The boy can shoot no question of it. I suspect that as has happened before we are being used as bait - link us heavily to him and a club more of his stature might panic and put in a bid themselves. As has been said, have to wonder why a player of his calibre would look at Norwich. Younger players like RVW might be happy to come as a foothold in the division to earn a move to a bigger club down the line, the way Tevez and Mascherano came to West Ham then soon after ended up at Man U and Liverpool. But someone of Quagliarella''s age cant waste two seasons to do this, so this cant be the motivation. Seen a few posters getting quite sore about Toivonen, Fer and Alderweld being lukewarm over a transfer to Norwich, but think it has to be understood that probably few players outside of the UK know much about the club. Dont think we should get too upset that they arent desperate to sign up. Doesnt mean that if they eventually come they wont grow to love the club. We offer the Premiership at face value and not much else beyond that, but we have to pray they are persuaded and that hopefully they''ll love their time at the club. Gone are the days when we can look at the calibre of player who feels lucky to play for Norwich, we''re now looking at players who consider us lucky to have them. But if Swansea can attract a Bony, then who knows? Regular Premiership football must be a huge pull - hope you are reading Mr Ruddy :)

[quote user="I.S."]Well, those Youtube videos remind me of the time I first saw the "Fozzie Flick".[/quote] So somebody did see the Fozzie Flick then?!

So, if this does suggest that Becchio was a panic buy, or a way of getting rid of a want-away striker for an acceptable compromise - where does this leave Becchio? With every other striker having been cleared out, is Hughton looking to shift Becchio too for perhaps around the 3m mark (the rumoured value of Morison/Becchio). Becchio didnt seem to have a place in Hughtons squad last season and was certainly behind Holt in the pecking order. Wouldnt be surprised to see him offloaded as well. Sure a Championship club would be interested?

Iv always found the secrecy quite frustrating, as it does seem to be every transfer, both in and out - though I accept its probably good from a business point of view. Perhaps Purple could enlighten us as to whether it is clear from the clubs accounts from previous years what the transfer fees were for players. Accept City1st''s point that transfer fees are meaningless and the way we think of them is inappropriate - but I still enjoy the concept, and is football not about entertainment after all? Quite annoying on that Hooper article that it said Hughton has money to spend after selling Grant Holt for 2m, again perpetuating the myth we are paupers and get excited when 2m comes our way - ooh what to do with this 2m burning a hole in our pockets?! Still, whatever allows us to not be held to ransom over players. Think with the new TV deal fees are going to become ridiculously inflated, but I think 5m for Hooper should be a no-brainer and glad to see we arent being reckless with the cash so far

From the moment I learned Holt had left I had been looking for a thread for my general outpouring of grief and a place to pass on my thanks to Grant and everything he has done for the club. Excellent post and a fitting place for me to simply say - Thank you Grant Holt. Gutted to see you go, but understand that this is a good move for you, and if it is what you want then you have earned it. I will continue to follow you and champion you. You are a true club legend. Thank you for helping us fall in love with Norwich City and football again after the heartache. Thanks for the memories!

In terms of having it all - Dean Ashton. Only thing he lacked was pace. The guy had everything else. I really believe he would have been the next Alan Shearer if he hadnt got that injury. Still find it hard to believe SWP the slightest footballer in world history could have been the culprit. More on topic though, as above Julian Brellier was a massive disappointment considering the reputation he came with. David Strihavka another - never saw him play so is always very mythological as to why he was so bad - could anyone elaborate as to why he was so bad? Always wondered if we missed a trick with Theoklitos - obviously his debut was infamous, but did he just need some time? Look at the way Turner was transformed after a similarly terrible start - the guy must have had something to be Gunny''s ''number one transfer target''. I know he only played in the A-leauge, but similarly we were only in League One ourselves. Always liked Erik Fuglestad, had high hopes for him, and thought Mulryne would hit greater heights than he did. Thought Luke Chadwick was a great player, couldnt really understand why we let him go so easily.

KEEP

Always my first signing on Football Manager as he develops into an awesome player! Whether or not the real Muniesa is as much of a coup I dont know :D Great piece of PR in that article too - ''I looked around the stadium and the training facilities and was very impressed''. No offence to Stoke, but I find it hard to imagine that someone can come from Barcelona, having been exclusively schooled there and be impressed by Stoke...

On paper I think the squad is capable of holding its own. But we''ve seen, with teams before that seem to have plenty of quality within their ranks, that if you chosse not to bring players in you struggle. I think this is probably the psychological aspect, rather than the rest of the field moving forward and you standing still. I think for many players, bringing in new blood freshens things up, and gives the impression their club is moving forward. If you dont bring new players in, existing players get comfortable, and there is always the possibility they feel the club is not moving on and become demoralised - like when Rooney put in jhis transfer request at Man U due to a lack of signings. So on paper I think having to rely on the current players wouldnt be a disaster, the psychological impact of no new blood could be devastating

I know its Wikipedia, but was just having a read about Leroy Fer, and the article says he was training with Everton on June 20th and re-discussing a move with them after his signing fell through in January. Would seem from this highly unreliable source of information that he, and most of our other rumoured targets, will be joining Everton. Guess we''ll see in the coming days. Sounds a good player though

Whilst an accurate summary of recent rumours and interesting conjecture, we dont really know the facts on most of these things, and a lot of this is simply journalists declaring rumour as fact. I dont have any problems with posts like this, I still enjoyed the opinion and I dont think we need to be so defensive as posters and shoot people down for posts like this. I dont think its a negative post, just a comment on the last week. I think think things will change come tomorrow. So much of the information is missing, and things cant really happen until the transfer window opens. Things will start to happen tomorrow, and all this frustration and fumbling round in the dark for information will be a thing of the past. Ill be surprised if we announce any signings tomorrow, but things will start to move, and this is potenitally the most exciting pre-season ever considering the financial position the club is in. Exciting times ahead, have faith and be patient :D

Its quite amazing how Snodgrass'' freekicks are lauded. Yes I know he scored a few and got a few assists, but he almost completely monopolises the set pieces. Its almost law of averages. And some shouldnt have been goals (goal against Southampton springs to mind). So many of Snodgrasses set pieces fail to clear the first man, its so frustrating. I think that although Snodgrass created and scored some chances, he also allowed many chances to fall away by cutting in and losing possession, when clearly a cross from the byline is needed. The beauty of Pilks is, he can do both - he can cut in, he can get to the byline. Cant rememebr which game it was but he did both in one move, got to the byline, dummied then cut in, equally comfortable on both feet. Pilks is inconsistent, especially away, and Snoddy''s defensive contributions are far better. But Pilks is the more dangerous in my opinion. What impressed me most about Snoddy though was that towards the end of last season, he began to cross with his right foot, a clear attempt to be less one footed and to give the team a byline threat from the right. If he can effectively add that to his game he will be a much more effective player this coming season. Pilks just needs to add consistency. Pilks is better in my opinion, but they have different qualities, so a like for like comparison is unfair!

Just a question. We have a squad at present which has achieved a mid-table finish two seasons running. We have, hopefully, some help for Holt up front already, which has had no impact on our budget for this season. Whilst it is not known what the transfer budget for this season is, we are externally debt free, so will surely have more funds available than the £25million we''ve had in previous seasons, with only Garrido''s transfer of, what 2m?, impacting on it. One option could be to blow the lot on someone truly special, looking for a foothold in English football. We could conceivably make one single outrageous signing. Not sensible at all, but it would be exciting, and raise the profile of the club. Who would you sign and why? Plausible suggestions only (not loads of stupid ''Messi'' posts). Someone who might want to break into English football (probably the only reason someone of that calibre would be willing to play for us) but would cost an outrageous amount. Im thinking along the lines of Middlesbrough''s signing of Juninho int the 90''s

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]The Great Mass Debater wrote the following post at 23/06/2013 11:53 AM: We paid almost 3 million for him, when he was proven only in League 1. On his day he is our best player IMO. But the problem is, how many times is he ''On his Day''? Very few of our players are attractable to teams above us. Does hat not tell you something? We need to improve! We need players who are good players when they have an average day and exceptional players when they are ''On their Day!'' We are not at that point yet, in fact, we are still a long way from it. £5M would be a good price.[/quote] I would argue that under Lambert he had more on days than off days. Tierney was awesome under Lambert, nowhere man under Hughton. Not an anti Hughton post, just pointing out that players can perform quite differently according to circumstances. I would argue that if a player clearly has that ability, the coaching team need to work on how to get the best out of him and make him more consistent. Look at the transformation in Hoolahan when Lambo came, and when his role in the team was fundamentally changed. I agree Pilks is inconsistent, but I again point out that he is developing, and is something he needs to work on with the coaching team in order to improve. (Not saying he''s in the same league, but look at Ronaldo - Man U fans baying to sell him after a season of promise but no end-product. Some good coaching and look what happened) Some players are developing within our squad. Let them develop, dont throw the baby out with the bathwater!

We paid almost 3 million for him, when he was proven only in League 1. On his day he is our best player IMO. Think he had a very impressive stat in his first season (cant remember exactly what it was, it was something like highest scoring player from midfield in the league). For that reason I would value him at 8 million currently. He''s still young, bypassed the Championship so one could argue his first season was part of his development, rather than the finished product, and like all our attacking players, given far fewer opportunities to look like an effective player due to our change in focus, and an increased emphasis on defensive responsibilities. Left foot? Right foot? Head? I think the guy is brilliant. He''s clearly not the finished product yet, but why are people baying for players to be jettisoned when they are clearly still developing. Prior to Lambo''s departure, I was expecting a big season from Elliot Bennett. Thought his first season he was clearly showing promise, but trying to accomodate the step-up from League 1, which I think he did pretty well. I thought this season just passed would be the season he moved up a level after a year of development, but sadly, Hughton coming in impaired his development, but I still think this step up can come for him. Think EBs defensive work is superb so think, had it not been for Snoddy''s arrival he could have been a very effective player in Hughtons system. Still think there is loads to come from both Pilks and EB. They offer a variety of different threats and I think EB could have a role as either a RB or RW (as he offers a direct threat to use as a different weapon to Snoddy''s cutting in) Keep both Pilks and EB. Not for sale IMO

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]All players come and go, none are bigger than the club, we replace them and (most of us) move on. This even applies to those that some seem to consider to be the ''untouchables'' like Holt and Hoolahan. If we sign Hooper or similar to go with RVW, there will undoubtedly be fewer chances for the guys already here such as Holt, so we and they need to decide what''s best. It may be a case of getting some cash for them, or keeping for a season and then letting go - time will tell. As for someone claiming the loss of Malky left a big hole, get a life - great guy that he was, he was not PL standard, as testified by West Ham and Watford who got shot on promotion. Hucks did leave a hoe but went to the States, hardly the most testing of leagues.[/quote] Hucks has some interesting feelings on Malky and Iwan being released in his autobiography if you havent read it. He repeatedly said that he felt they were both missed