Some thoughts....

[TIL 1010 4,746]

Really Nutty CUSDP explains exactly how he feels about the situation and fully outlines the reasoning behind his decision that he believes Hughton is not the man for the job and you jump in with talk of a Hughton out campaign. No doubt as is normal you will now try and say I am reading it wrong and that is not what you were saying. Seems a common theme developing yet again with something you post.

[Warren Hill 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]Hahaha, well er, no. But ok, I said I''d answer ONE of your questions and did so. Then about a thousand words later I make some unrelated comments? My post was clearly paragraphed and my second point addresses CUSDP directly but my further comments weren''t directed at him specifically either. The telling point is where I state: IF you want Hughton out...etc Meaning it is directed at those that want Hughton out. Only you know whether that includes you or not.[/quote]

There you go again Warren with your very last sentence..... I even quoted it earlier for you on this thread where I said '' I so want Hughton to succeed'' and on other threads today where I have expressed concern about where we are at right now.

Selective memory,point scoring or both perhaps ? [:D]

[/quote]

Point scoring?

No. I made a post, a long post where I tried to respond to points made by CUSDP''s OP and answered a solitary question from you. I also offered what I felt to be reasoned and balanced thoughts on our progress through the season.

You chose to pull two lines from the whole post to score points - since then my only contribution is to try, time and again, to point out how you have completely misunderstood what I''ve written.

Now, writing that you want Hughton to succeed is commendable, I do too.

I also want him to be our manager, I know that CUSDP doesn''t. I have no idea whether you do or not, that''s all I said.

Why are you so touchy about it?

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

The bloke doesn''t stand a chance while posters go to Arsenal expecting a result. I''m a really positive poster and can go anywhere dreaming of a result but expecting it? Not even me! I''ll tell you what I expected from the last 3 games - a point at Stoke and two defeats. I dreamt of a point at Stoke and nicking a point off Chelsea. In actual fact we have done better than that with 3 points from the 3 games.

 

The expectation of some of our fans knows no bounds but if you point it out it''s just being little old Norwich.

 

Now I was heartened by our performance at Stoke. Was further heartened by the performances against Chelsea and Arsenal. In fact I see nothing from the last month to even moan about let alone sack the manager over! Perhaps minds were already made up....

 

 

[/quote]

The problem is Nutty that the longer this goes on whilst not expecting much reward from trips to such places as the Emirates it will soon become a necessity rather than a bonus to pick up points. As your predictions for the last three games were nearly bang on the money maybe you could tell us what you were expecting away at Hull and home to Villa or give us your thoughts on Cardiff and Man City. Whilst loving the win and the somewhat improved performance at Stoke I hope you have noticed that they cannot score in a brothel with only 4 goals so far this season. The big picture Nutty needs looking at not just the yellow and green tinted frame.

I am not tub thumping for a campaign to oust Hughton and you know that really but I am very concerned that if we soon do not string some results together we will be keeping Sunderland and Palace company. 

[/quote]

 

My point was that this agenda has carried on from before these 3 games. That''s all. To my view there has been nothing in the last 3 games to suggest that Hull was the performance with which we judge our season. Have any other results really warranted a manager campaign. It''s all about opinions I guess but mine is that there hasn''t been. That''s why I believe the conclusions made in the opening post are the ones held before the last three games and carried over regardless albeit with a break in the week after the Stoke result.

[/quote]

Your exact words mate. You do not agree with CUSDP so fine but do not label it as an agenda or a campaign.

Let me guess I have read it all wrong ?

 

[crabbycanary 2]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Really Nutty CUSDP explains exactly how he feels about the situation and fully outlines the reasoning behind his decision that he believes Hughton is not the man for the job and you jump in with talk of a Hughton out campaign. No doubt as is normal you will now try and say I am reading it wrong and that is not what you were saying. Seems a common theme developing yet again with something you post. [/quote]

 

With the greatest of respect, I do not see any difference in someone saying that the manager is not the man for the job, and not wanting him sacked.

My opinion ;), is that Nutty was referring to the numerous posts about getting rid of the manager, and not putting words into the OPs mouth about a campaign. The OP doesn''t think that Hughton is the man for the job, so ergo, he wants him out.

[Warren Hill 0]

So Tilly, you agree with CUSDP but you want Hughton to be out manager.

Or have I read it wrong?

[Warren Hill 0]

*our

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Really Nutty CUSDP explains exactly how he feels about the situation and fully outlines the reasoning behind his decision that he believes Hughton is not the man for the job and you jump in with talk of a Hughton out campaign. No doubt as is normal you will now try and say I am reading it wrong and that is not what you were saying. Seems a common theme developing yet again with something you post. [/quote]

 

I believe this is my post that your are referring to Tilly : -

 

[quote user="nutty nigel"]My point was that this agenda has carried on from before these 3 games. That''s all. To my view there has been nothing in the last 3 games to suggest that Hull was the performance with which we judge our season. Have any other results really warranted a manager out campaign. It''s all about opinions I guess but mine is that there hasn''t been. That''s why I believe the conclusions made in the opening post are the ones held before the last three games and carried over regardless albeit with a break in the week after the Stoke result.

 

[/quote]

 

I see it as no more or no less of a reasoned argument than CUSDP''s opinion that the managers time is up. Posts are not only reasonable when you agree with them Tilly. I can recognise that the op is reasonable even though I disagree with it.

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

Why the need to talk of agendas and campaigns then as that is for Wiz and his cohorts ? Debate and discussion is the way forward not bracketing everyone who does not wear your glasses Nutty as some sort of rabble rouser. It is not all black or white like you and Warren seem to view it.

Anyway By Any Means is on BBC1 right now so I am off. [:P]

[nutty nigel 7,535]

I give up! Your posts on this thread do not seem connected to anything anyone else has posted. God help us all if your telly goes on the blink...

 

 

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user=Curious Orange]I feel sorry for many fans that can find fault in anything. We weren''t expected to win but we played as well as the last 2 games under the new formation. Therefore what''s to grumble about? If we lose at home to Cardiff playing this way and Hooper/RVW are not getting chances then there will be room to critisise but I was, again, pleased and encouraged by yesterday''s performance. /quote]Agree with this completely.In 2004/5 the identical 4-1 away defeat to Arsenal attracted little comment other than the usual " it was to be expected " but for some strange reason some posters seem to think that the same scoreline yesterday could somehow have been avoided, even to the extent that we might have taken a point or more. This was never likely to happen but generally we played as well as we hoped we would and this was a continuation of our form over the previous two League games.All over the pitch Arsenal have far better players than us and they''ll beat better far better teams than Norwich City over the course of this season. I''m not a great Hughton fan and am not convinced he is the right man but to ratchet up the pressure on him over a gallant defeat at Arsenal seems absurd.

[Warren Hill 0]

What I don''t understand is that Tilly says that CUSDPs views reflect his own, but goes to extraordinary lengths to try and convince everyone that he has never said that he wants Hughton out (something that nobody has implied) - which CUSDPs OP is quite clear about, saying that his time is up.

It''s all terribly confusing.

I still stand by everything I said in my first post btw...

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I give up! Your posts on this thread do not seem connected to anything anyone else has posted. God help us all if your telly goes on the blink...

 

[/quote][:D]

[crabbycanary 2]

We''ve got less than half an hour left

[Warren Hill 0]

Half an hour? Bet Hughton doesn''t even think about a sub for another 15 minutes at least..

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I give up! Your posts on this thread do not seem connected to anything anyone else has posted. God help us all if your telly goes on the blink...

[/quote]

You are right of course like you always are on every thread you post on as the numerous 20 to 30 page efforts will testify. Mind you I am not the only one  to have got it all wrong with what you have said today now am I ? [:P]

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]What I don''t understand is that Tilly says that CUSDPs views reflect his own, but goes to extraordinary lengths to try and convince everyone that he has never said that he wants Hughton out (something that nobody has implied) - which CUSDPs OP is quite clear about, saying that his time is up. It''s all terribly confusing. I still stand by everything I said in my first post btw...[/quote]

I said that it was an excellent summary. I also said I want Hughton to succeed. If he does then I will be absolutely thrilled and delighted for him and the team. However there are doubts and concerns but you and Nutty just choose to sit ignore the possibility that Hughton may not be the right man. Like you I stand by what I have posted so best we let time take its course.

There are those in the Hughton IN camp,those in the Hughton OUT camp and those who are CONCERNED and UNDECIDED. I get the impression you and Nutty regard the third group as closet OUTERS.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

Nope.. you''re not the first one tonight to pick a fight and end up looking daft. But I gotta say this one was the most satisfying...

 

[:P]

 

 

 

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,535]

Nope.. wrong again tilly. I regard someone who says Hughton''s time is up as an OUTER. Or is saying Hughton''s time is up a secret code meaning UNDECIDED...

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Nope.. you''re not the first one tonight to pick a fight and end up looking daft. But I gotta say this one was the most satisfying...

[:P]

[/quote]

FFS there you go yet again and there was me thinking I was not agreeing with what you posted but obviously having the nerve to respond is translated as picking a fight.Daft you may think I am but your picking a fight jibe is stupid in my book.

[Warren Hill 0]

I''d love to know where my apparent lack of concern has been interpreted from....

Here is what you said:

Excellent summary Mr.T and exactly how I feel about things. I so want Hughton to succeed but our reliance on hope rather than any sort of expectancy cannot go on.

If it''s exactly how you feel (CUSDP clearly says that CH''s time is up) and you state it "cannot go on", where precisely does your indecision sit? That''s why I''m confused.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Nope.. you''re not the first one tonight to pick a fight and end up looking daft. But I gotta say this one was the most satisfying...

[:P]

[/quote]

FFS there you go yet again and there was me thinking I was not agreeing with what you posted but obviously having the nerve to respond is translated as picking a fight.Daft you may think I am but your picking a fight jibe is stupid in my book.

[/quote]

 

Brilliant!! I''m well happy with that. You''re daft and my comment was stupid[Y]

 

But to get back to the thread. CUSDP said the managers time was up. I said, in my opinion and quite reasonably, why I disagreed. So why not explain to me how stating the managers time is up is not wanting him gone?

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

How many pages do you want this to go on for ? Let''s just say I take my yellow and green tinted specs off now and again but it is obvious you do not. Try it sometime and you must just see someone elses viewpoint. CUSDP made several very valid points,Jesus even Warren admitted to that but dear old Nutty just has to ramble on and on and on grinding the thread down demanding that his questions are answered and if he does not get the response he requires or no response at all victory is his.

What I said,what CUSDP said,what you thought CUSDP said,what you thought I meant and so it goes on.

The bottom line is you are in love with Hughton and I am falling out of love with him so let''s leave it at that shall we.

The last word is yours as tomorrow is another day and all I can see is cracks and divides starting to appear in the fans opinions which will not be pleasant especially around here.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

Night Tilly[S]

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,535]

CUSDP...

 

If you return to this thread could you clarify for me whether stating the managers time is up means you want him out or that your undecided?

 

Thanks buddy.

 

 

[Warren Hill 0]

I don''t think anyone is in love with Hughton (maybe Mrs Hughton) and we all wear green and yellow spectacles in so much that we all want what is best for Norwich City.

I personally think that we''re showing enough for the fans and board to have faith that we''re on the right track. I also think that a managerial change is, currently, an unnecessary gamble to take.

I''m confident that showing faith and loyalty is the right thing to do, I know that CUSDP is sure that it isn''t. The only thing we''ll never know is which one of us is actually right because if they sack him, who is to say that Hughton wouldn''t have done better or worse, if they don''t, who is to say that a new guy couldn''t have got more or less from the team?

It''s the nature of the beast. But I''ve respected other opinions and tried to respond to them offering an alternate view, answering questions posed along the way. That''s all.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Excellent summary Mr.T and exactly how I feel about things.[/quote]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]There are those in the Hughton IN camp,those in the Hughton OUT camp and those who are CONCERNED and UNDECIDED. I get the impression you and Nutty regard the third group as closet OUTERS.[/quote]

Til, you seemed pretty certain in the very first sentence of your opening post. CUSUP thinks the manager''s time is up and you are expressly agreeing with that view. So why not ''fess up rather than create a wall of smoke and mirrors over the usage of the second person singular and plural?

You obviously cannot see the improvement of this team since last year. You obviously can''t see the improvement in performances since the beginning of this season. Going into the Arsenal game we had a better points tally than this time last season. So on what criteria do you base your judgement that Hughton''s time is up? Defeats to Arsenal and Chelsea are excuses for what exactly?

And kindly do tell us with whom would you replace Hughton

[JF 694]

I am really undecided on this now, dont get me wrong if he was gone tomorrow i wouldn''t be to botherered but performances have improved, 3 points from the last 3 games is as much as any of us could have realistically expected. We have a run of games coming up that could see us sitting comfortably in mid table by xmas and maybe even another unbeaten run to look forward to. I hope there is still money available for new quality in January cos we are still 3 players short.

[NCFCgardener 0]

Hughtons post match comments were absurd!

“At 2-1 it really looked like we could get something from the game, but then of course you have to make decisions. And at that stage its you either settle for what you’ve got or you endeavour to try and get back in the game.”

Is he seriously suggesting that after being 2- and bringing it back to 2-1, that we should even consider taking what weve got... Nothing!!!

Cant complain too much about Arsenals first goal, its possibly one of the best team goals I have ever seen, if that was Barcelona, the press would be dribbling all over it.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Unfortunately the press and most other people were ''dribbling all over it'' about Arsenal''s first goal.

The only ones not to see the quality seem to be those who will look for any reason to blame Hughton or the team.

I think what was being said was "We''ve pulled it back to 2-1 we could try to go on as we are but I don''t think we will get another so I will try to (as so many people on these boards advocate) go for it and bring on two attacking players".

[Tumbleweed 106]

One of the frustrating things is that we know we can do better. We are unlikely to win at the Emirates but we saw for around 20 minutes that we could at least press and cause problems. Like we did against Chelsea. During those periods we looked OK. But we don''t seem to be able to do that for 90, maybe the players are not fit enough? While we can be good for chunks of matches we are also capable of being shocking for almost an entire one. The question is therefore do we cling on to the hope given by those good chunks or the league position,  we must surely look at things in the round and try to see an overall progression which at the moment all too often appears illusory.

 

It is still worrying that 46 Prem games into his reign and with record transfer spending few seem to be convinced by Hughton. And in the middle of that we became the first Prem side in history to lose to non-league opposition in the FA Cup. I seriously doubt that any true NCFc supporter wants CH to fail, but the evidence in his favour is pretty weak and as time goes by seems to be slipping rather than being bolstered. I think its pretty natural to be concerned about how this season will pan out and whether CH is capable of finally getting things right. Just as the stakes could not be higher.