Interesting capacity statistics....

[Bill 1,788]

What absolute nonsense

 

I suggest you get a grown up to read you the clubs accounts for the time - or are we going to go down the road of accusing the clubs directors and auditors of lying.

 

Also it might help if you stop making up other stuff as well. I am not blaming the fans as you claim - or perhaps you could point that out to us all where I said I did. I am simply asking you to put you money where your mouth is.

 

And maybe you could tell us where the money was to come from if the banks would not lend us the money. And please no childish guff about agents fees either. They were never that high so as to cover the cost of building a new stand

 

elsewhere

 

"The increase season ticket prices can be the first instalment"

 

dearie me

 

you increase supply and so you then can increase the price ! ! !

 

 

[Not Nigel 0]

Funny how the biggest creditor agreed to delay repayments for a year under McNally, isn''t it?

I haven''t accused anybody of lying, don''t put words into my or anybody else''s mouths please. I said that McNally specifically stated that if he had been the CEO we would not have built a hotel in the corner of the ground.

I''m not sure whether you have the spin skills of Alistair Campbell or are accidentally missing my point entirely, but please explain the relevance of:

"They were never that high so as to cover the cost of building a new stand"

I have never said that and the point in discussion here is NOT whether we should have built a corner stand, but whether or not we SHOULD have sold the land to a hotel chain for £1m.

I''m saying that we SHOULD NOT have sold the land for £1m, you are saying that we SHOULD. Nobody has said that we could have afforded the expense of a corner stand but rather that if we had been managed correctly we would not have had to have sold the hotel land to Holiday Inn.

Whilst on the subject of the accounts, didn''t Doncaster simultaneously borrow a significant amount of money to make a land purchase which we subsequently paid a lot of interest on?

So you are claiming that our hand was forced in respect of selling the hotel land? I assume therefore that we were so cash poor and had such a bad credit rating that we would have been unable to acquire any additional land ourselves?

We sold land, we bought land. We didn''t need to sell land, like we didn''t need to buy land.

[Not Nigel 0]

If we hadn''t have bought land, and in turn felt the need to sell land, we wouldn''t have a hotel in the corner of our ground, and if we didn''t have a hotel in the corner of our ground.... we might now have been in the financial position to build a corner stand in that location. Come on City1st, it doesn''t take a genius? Does it?

[nutty nigel 7,534]

I''d be interested to see where McNally said he would never have built the hotel. I''m not doubting anyone''s word but I honestly don''t remember him saying it.

 

 

[Reasonable Canary 0]

I personally can''t wait for the stadium to be expanded. It''s a natural part of our expansion as a football club. Anyone that is against a medium term move towards 32-35,000 is clearly just dead set against change. Not useful to the club at all. Best to get rid of them

[Not Nigel 0]

Nutty Nigel, it was said at an AGM and at the time discussed on this forum, I can''t be bothered to hunt for it... to be frank.

[ZLF 274]

[quote user="Reasonable Canary"]

 Anyone that is against a medium term move towards 32-35,000 is clearly just dead set against change. Not useful to the club at all. Best to get rid of them[/quote]

 

Do that and we dont have the need for a 32-35k stadium[:P]

[nutty nigel 7,534]

I don''t remember it being said at an AGM.

 

 

 

 

[Not Nigel 0]

Maybe a fans forum or Q&A. I''ll have a hunt when I have spare time, perhaps somebody with a twitter account can ask him the question?

I could be wrong, but I remain 95% convinced that I am not. Still, the same point is valid: If Doncaster hadn''t have sold the land to Holiday Inn, we would have been able to build a corner stand in its current location.

[Not Nigel 0]

I don''t have time to search, but in the 30 seconds that I did invest I did find that the club had explored the option of building a small stand in front of the hotel, a proposition which appears not to have found favor with Holiday Inn.

I will invest a lot more time in trying to find this when I get some to spare, but already in text it looks like McNally would be building seats there right now if he was able to.

[Reasonable Canary 0]

People slag off the hotel but it did kind of save our arses and give us cash. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

[Not Nigel 0]

It saved our asses because Neil Doncaster made a terrible multi-million pound real estate investment which didn''t work out, leaving us with a huge annual interest bill. If it saved us from anything, it saved us from Doncaster''s sheer incompetence having an even graver effect than it did, if that is even possible.

How much cash exactly does it generate? Was it £1m up front that we got? And then 10% of the profit?

I''d be interested to see what 10% of the profit of a smallish mid-range hotel in Norwich is, I doubt it would anywhere near six figures.

[Reasonable Canary 0]

It''s small cash now with the prem money, sure, but it was what we needed at the time.

 

I''d prefer to have a stand there for sure but it stands as a needs-must monolith. A statue dedicated to our past financial almost ruin

[Not Nigel 0]

Well what can be safely assumed is that the annual income from the hotel did not cover the annual interest on the loan taken out to purchase other land, so I''m really not sure how Doncaster''s property dealings benefited us in any way whatsoever.

[Bill 1,788]

You do come across as many other serial phantasists do. Make up stuff, then back pedal when you are challenged

Firstly I did not accuse you of lying. What I did say was that for your unsupported allegations to be true then the clubs directors and auditors would have to have been lying - and that I doubt very much.

"They were never that high so as to cover the cost of building a new stand"

I have never said that"

unfortunately you did, as

"But then if he had been the CEO we wouldn''t have spent all of our money on loan fees and agent fees"

Note the words ''all of our money''. None left to built this new stand we must presume

 

Now what I suggest is that you start putting evidence to your rather absurd claims. Ones like - ''giving something back to the fans who stuck by the club through years of misery when most clubs would have seen their fans desert in droves''. They did give something nack by keeping to prices very low, only when they put the prices up v Spurs )League Cup) did fans desert in their droves.

 

And maybe you could also point us towards where McNally said that about the hotel and also where we were to get the money from when the banks would not lend us the money.

 

 

[Not Nigel 0]

You are guilty of the very thing that you accuse me of.

You have taken my quotes and presented them as meaning something entirely different.

I''m undecided as to whether or not you have done so in order to intentionally evoke a reaction or not, but I''m not going to continue to give you one.

Perhaps you genuinely believe my quotes to be "absurd", but I find yours to be absurd too. E.g....

"They did give something nack by keeping to prices very low, only when they put the prices up v Spurs )League Cup) did fans desert in their droves"

That line is, to me, absurd. We are clearly not on the same wavelength, perhaps you can support that line with evidence? Because I''m pretty certain that a comparison of the cheapest matchday tickets at Carrow Road in relation to other Premier League clubs, or indeed the average cheapest matchday ticket across all 19 home games of this season, would put us well into the top half.

Different wavelength.

[Not Nigel 0]

Or indeed a comparison of the cheapest season tickets.

Norwich tickets are not cheap when applied relatively to prices of other clubs in this league.

The club didn''t put the prices UP against Spurs, I think you will find that the Spurs prices were MUCH LOWER than the usual casual ticket prices for Premier League games.

The fact that you think £35 is a price rise shows that you are completely out of touch and know nothing about this subject. The price issue was the £35 being charged for a league cup game.

£45 to £50 is the lowest price that a casual is typically asked for at Carrow Road. Equivalent to £855 to £950 per season if purchasing an adult ticket for every league game, not including cup games.

If you don''t even know the price of a ticket then I''m afraid your arguments on a thread about stadium expansion become immediately invalid.

Well you got your reaction afterall.

[Jersey Canary 143]

I would be really ambitious and go for 40,000 stadium as we could lower ticket prices across the board.  This means lower ticket prices for away fans which means that they will bring more fans.  The one away game per season may well be Carrow Road instead of Wigan perhaps.For the home fans the benefits will be that the waiting list will be gone and hopefully attract more families which is the lifeblood of this club going forward.Norwich is an expanding city and with imaginative marketing I feel 40,000 is achievable.

[Reasonable Canary 0]

[quote user="Jersey Canary"]I would be really ambitious and go for 40,000 stadium as we could lower ticket prices across the board.  This means lower ticket prices for away fans which means that they will bring more fans.  The one away game per season may well be Carrow Road instead of Wigan perhaps.For the home fans the benefits will be that the waiting list will be gone and hopefully attract more families which is the lifeblood of this club going forward.Norwich is an expanding city and with imaginative marketing I feel 40,000 is achievable.[/quote]

City First is going to absolutely slaughter you for that. Completely unjustifiably, because he fears change. Just getting in early.

[Not Nigel 0]

Jersey Canary,

I''m not certain but I don''t think that there is actually scope to reach 40000 at Carrow Road. I wouldn''t support a move to a new stadium, only an expansion of the current one.

We can knock down the City stand and build a larger stand there, but think that would only take us to somewhere around 32000.

I can''t see where 40000 is possible at Carrow Road to be honest, although it may well be possible to build larger corners between a new City stand and the Barclay and Riverend.

To be honest 40000 seems too large to me, can''t imagine us ever filling it.... 32000 sounds much more realistic, I genuinely think we could fill that every week.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''d be interested to see where McNally said he would never have built the hotel. I''m not doubting anyone''s word but I honestly don''t remember him saying it.

 

 

[/quote]

 

I don''t remember this either, but then I don''t attend AGMs. But in any event there is a difference between passively not building the hotel and actively filling the gap with seats. As I understand it one of the reasons why the old regime didn''t construct a corner infill is that they are - per seat - much more expensive than straight-line stands, and you wouldn''t have got that many seats anyway, because of the need for emergency access. And at the time doubling the South Stand to around 8,000 seats gave us easily all the capacity we needed.

Now we could do with extra seats, but given the high cost it is a moot point as to whether the current regime would go ahead and fill in there if the space had been left vacant. The extra 1,500 or so seats would not be enough to fill the demand of an extra 8,000 that Bowkett and McNally have said is there.

[York Canary 28]

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]That is exactly what happened York Canary, last season there were a couple of games where I had to share my seat with the Dagenham Girl Pipers......[/quote]

Oh aye?....;)

[Rolf Harris 31]

[quote user="City1st"]

What absolute nonsense

 

I suggest you get a grown up to read you the clubs accounts for the time - or are we going to go down the road of accusing the clubs directors and auditors of lying.

 

Also it might help if you stop making up other stuff as well. I am not blaming the fans as you claim - or perhaps you could point that out to us all where I said I did. I am simply asking you to put you money where your mouth is.

 

And maybe you could tell us where the money was to come from if the banks would not lend us the money. And please no childish guff about agents fees either. They were never that high so as to cover the cost of building a new stand

 

elsewhere

 

"The increase season ticket prices can be the first instalment"

 

dearie me

 

you increase supply and so you then can increase the price ! ! !

 

 

[/quote]Wouldn''t you increase the price then increase capacity then lower it back to the original price so in a sense you''ve increased supports without lower the season ticket prices? 

[Not Nigel 0]

City1st,

You seem stumped, let me help you out with this. You accuse me of making completely baseless comments without evidence to support them. You subsequently make the following ludicrous statement:

"They did give something nack by keeping to prices very low, only when they put the prices up v Spurs )League Cup) did fans desert in their droves"

When asked to provide evidence to support them you failed to. Well let me give you the simple facts:

1) Our 11% rise in season ticket prices last season was the third biggest rise as a % out of all Premier League clubs.

2) Seven clubs froze season ticket prices due to the recession, including Stoke City in fact, who pretty much sell out every week like us.

3) One club REDUCED prices despite selling out every week.

4) When ranked in order of cheapest season ticket we are the 6th most expensive in the league.

5) Our cheapest adult season ticket is more expensive than the most expensive adult season ticket at four Premier League clubs.

6) Only one club outside of London have a more expensive cheapest season ticket than us, and that club is Liverpool. Even Manchester Uniteds cheapest season ticket is cheaper than our cheapest season ticket.

7) Not all clubs have confirmed their prices yet but it looks like next season our season tickets will be even more expensive when applied relatively with several clubs committing to price freezes yet again.

So remind me again, who is making baseless sweeping statements here? And you believe yourself qualified to make a judgement as to whether or not a stadium expansion is suitable?

That''s before we even talk about casual tickets, I can''t find a reliable source which compares those, but I suspect we may even be higher than 7th when comparing the cheapest casual tickets.

In order to safeguard our following for the long term future we need to make tickets more easily accessible to working class people, even lower middle class people the way things are going, I know somebody on £35k a year who is anxious about the spiralling cost of football and he doesn''t even have kids. Perhaps £50 tickets sound cheap to you, and hey good luck to you, I''m not a communist, but for most that is not cheap.

Either you have too much money than sense or you genuinely believed a casual ticket to be less than the thirty quid charged at Spurs. Fifty quid a ticket is a hell of a lot of money even to people earning substantially above the average national wage, especially if they have kids that they want to take with them.

[Not Nigel 0]

Looks to me like Norwich fans are ALREADY paying for a stadium expansion, does it not?

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"] Different wavelength.[/quote]

 

dearie me

 

different in the sense that you keep posting up nonsensical twaddle that you are incapabke or unwilling to defend, still in for a penny

 

you told us all that McNally told the AGM that he would not have built the hotel - please provide evidence of that

 

you also told us that "could have got up to 30000 if it weren''t for Neil Doncaster" - however the banks would not lend us the money so please tell us where the money would have came from

 

simply answers are all that''s required, simple answers to claims you have made

that''s all

 

or not,

as even your original statistics appear flawed, when set against these up to date figures

http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html

 

 

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Maybe a fans forum or Q&A. I''ll have a hunt when I have spare time, perhaps somebody with a twitter account can ask him the question? I could be wrong, but I remain 95% convinced that I am not. Still, the same point is valid: If Doncaster hadn''t have sold the land to Holiday Inn, we would have been able to build a corner stand in its current location.[/quote]

I cannot recall that alleged statement by McNally at an AGM or fans forum also we did not sell the land for the hotel.It was given in exchange for a 30% stake if and when the hotel is sold.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"] If Doncaster hadn''t have sold the land to Holiday Inn, we would have been able to build a corner stand in its current location.[/quote]

 

More nonsense

 

Where would the money have came from. You are still unwilling to tell us/

 

The land was not sold, it was given on a lease for £1m, Where would that money have come from?

 

Neil Doncaster did not run the club nor does David McNally it is ran by the board of directors so stop trying to personalise decisions.

 

If as claimed we were close to bankruptcy in 2009, perhaps you might tell us whether you would have been on this forum wobbling your gob off about the empty space between the two stands being more important than the £1m received ....... because in 2 years we would be in the Premier League !Decisions are taken at the time for what is seen to be the best and what is often forced upon us.

 

You would do better next time to have the curtesy towards the rest of the forum to check your facts BEFORE you come spouting off on here - and make sure what else you claim is verifiable, as virtually nothing you have posted (even the OP) has been at all accurate. Guesswork and dubious misinformation that you have had to back pedal from - and you have the cheek to criticise the club.

 

 

[Syteanric 1]

Tom Cavendish might be able to advise a solution....

[Not Nigel 0]

"More nonsense. Where would the money have came from. You are still unwilling to tell us"

I don''t know if you are being thick on purpose but:

If Doncaster hadn''t have sold the land to Holiday Inn, we would now have been in a financial position to build a corner stand in it''s current location.

Does the word ''now'' help? Or do you still not get it?