Strikers.

[Not Nigel 0]

Why does everybody on here think that Holt will leave?

It sounds like a ludicrous idea to me. We sign a quirky exciting bloke who scores a good header but remains completely unproven, a Leeds striker who doesn''t look all that much better than Morison, and suddenly selling Holt is a viable option?

The bloke is still the first name on the team sheet for me, we look like a Championship side without him in it.

For three and a half years we have relied almost completely on Holt and Hoolahan, and while you can throw Snodgrass into the mix now, we still rely on Holt and Hoolahan.

Selling Holt sounds like a good way to condemn ourselves to a relegation battle next season, the bloke is our captain and talisman, he is even the man who makes Hoolahan tick.

I don''t care how much he is on per week, I want him here until he physically cannot walk onto the pitch without the aid of a zimmer frame.

Is this all to do with him buying a house in Carlisle? He started househunting in Carlisle months before he signed his contract with us.

Would it be bizarre if you moved to Dubai on a three year contract earning a million quid a year, in the full knowledge that when that three years is up the best you can hope for is £50k a year... would it be bizarre if during that three years you bought yourself a nice house in Norfolk? Would it be bizarre if your wife and kids remaining in Norfolk, considering you have enough money to fly them out or to fly yourself back whenever you want, and the wife and kids considered Norfolk home?

It wouldn''t, would it? That would be sensible and the right thing for your family.

Other than the completely logical decision for him to buy a house in his hometown, which is also his wifes hometown, and therefore where his entire support network resides, is there any other reason why everybody is suggesting that Holt will leave in the summer?

Because if their isn''t then all I can say is GET A GRIP.

Next Kei Kamara will be spotted in London and everybody will assume a move to Spurs. This is the 140 characters or less generation.

[Joanna Grey 0]

"Would it be bizarre if you moved to Dubai on a three year contract earning a million quid a year, in the full knowledge that when that three years is up the best you can hope for is £50k a year"

Not bizarre at all. The three years is up, after buying what I need - a house, a couple of cars, etc. I still have a least 2 million in the bank and I''m earning £50k a year.

Worth it to be with my wife and kids.

[morty 0]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Why does everybody on here think that Holt will leave?

It sounds like a ludicrous idea to me. We sign a quirky exciting bloke who scores a good header but remains completely unproven, a Leeds striker who doesn''t look all that much better than Morison, and suddenly selling Holt is a viable option?

The bloke is still the first name on the team sheet for me, we look like a Championship side without him in it.

For three and a half years we have relied almost completely on Holt and Hoolahan, and while you can throw Snodgrass into the mix now, we still rely on Holt and Hoolahan.

Selling Holt sounds like a good way to condemn ourselves to a relegation battle next season, the bloke is our captain and talisman, he is even the man who makes Hoolahan tick.

I don''t care how much he is on per week, I want him here until he physically cannot walk onto the pitch without the aid of a zimmer frame.

Is this all to do with him buying a house in Carlisle? He started househunting in Carlisle months before he signed his contract with us.

Would it be bizarre if you moved to Dubai on a three year contract earning a million quid a year, in the full knowledge that when that three years is up the best you can hope for is £50k a year... would it be bizarre if during that three years you bought yourself a nice house in Norfolk? Would it be bizarre if your wife and kids remaining in Norfolk, considering you have enough money to fly them out or to fly yourself back whenever you want, and the wife and kids considered Norfolk home?

It wouldn''t, would it? That would be sensible and the right thing for your family.

Other than the completely logical decision for him to buy a house in his hometown, which is also his wifes hometown, and therefore where his entire support network resides, is there any other reason why everybody is suggesting that Holt will leave in the summer?

Because if their isn''t then all I can say is GET A GRIP.

Next Kei Kamara will be spotted in London and everybody will assume a move to Spurs. This is the 140 characters or less generation.[/quote]Woah, calm down and change your pants.No one is getting hissy about this apart from you.Most people consider the possability because of him, rightly, putting his family first. And whilst no one would like it, we would understand his reasons.Only one person here that needs to get a grip lol.

[Not Nigel 0]

Exactly. I actually know a guy who does earn that sort of money in the oil industry.

He is away for 6 months or 9 months at a time, and asides from the obvious sexual frustration that one would get from being stuck on a muslim oil rig without even so much as an old copy of Razzle, the stress related to occasional relationship strains and loneliness is going to well and truly compensated by the fact that he is going to be made for life by the time he is 40.

His missus is going to be kept in designer handbags, temporary pain for long term gain.

On another post on this forum I pointed out that it is highly likely that Holt has lived apart from his family for five years of his career already, he even spent time in Singapore.

He is clever enough to know that his career will last ten years, there are forty years left after that.

Besides, the bloke is barely literate and his only other skill is changing tyres, when he signed for us he was driving a Peugot 306. Pretty sure he can put up with another year in Norwich for the likely equivalent of national average annual wage once per week.

[Not Nigel 0]

"Woah, calm down and change your pants. No one is getting hissy about this apart from you. Most people consider the possability because of him, rightly, putting his family first. And whilst no one would like it, we would understand his reasons. Only one person here that needs to get a grip lol"

You have pretty much just confirmed that people really are making wild assumptions from a 140 character tweet which Holt himself has confirmed does not imply that he wants to leave Norwich. So no, it is not me that needs to get a grip.

[Indy 3,300]

Well Singup, how many gaols has Hooper scored since Mid January, why is it that now Chris Commons is their darling of the month and one 40 yard control and goal does not warrent 8 million.....not from that league. Just how much did Chelsea pay for Lukaku?

 

We can all see things differently and this so called 8 million pound player should be top of the scoring charts playing for the best team by a country mile in that league. But hes not, he''s 5th in the scoring table.

 

Anyhow we can disagree on Hooper, he would be worth a go for 4 million but no more in my book, but then it doesn''t matter in real life what I or you think it''s what Hughton thinks and values him at that counts.

 

I would still say there are gems out there in Belgium, Czech Rep and Poland which might be cheaper and better options. Maybe we can buy that one marquee signing that people keep going on about but we are not Chelsea or Liverpool we won''t attract the best even if we can afford to buy them.

 

Looking forward to the summer this time round as I''m sure there will be a few decent signings this year.

 

Still think Vaughan, Jackson and Martin are as good as gone by the end of this summer.

[morty 0]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]"Woah, calm down and change your pants. No one is getting hissy about this apart from you. Most people consider the possability because of him, rightly, putting his family first. And whilst no one would like it, we would understand his reasons. Only one person here that needs to get a grip lol"

You have pretty much just confirmed that people really are making wild assumptions from a 140 character tweet which Holt himself has confirmed does not imply that he wants to leave Norwich. So no, it is not me that needs to get a grip.[/quote]I am not making wild assumptions at all. Given his age, and his family situation, I wouldn''t be surprised if he wanted to move north to be nearer his family. Its hardly wild, fantasy rumour, is it?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

If there''s one thing I''ve learnt,it''s that our signings are a complete surprise. I don''t know many posters who''ve called Hughton''s signings correctly - forgive me if I''m wrong and you have.

So I think we''ll be surprised, in a happy kind of way, come the summer and the new strikers come on board.

[Not Nigel 0]

"Well Singup, how many gaols has Hooper scored since Mid January"

Well if we take ''mid January'' as being all of the days which follow 15th January, he has scored 6 goals.

"now Chris Commons is their darling of the month"

Kris Commons has always been a very good player and I''d have him at Norwich.

"Just how much did Chelsea pay for Lukaku?"

How much does Abramovich pay him per week?

"We can all see things differently and this so called 8 million pound player"

Nobody is advocating spending £8m on Hooper, and we have no idea how much the club offered. What we can be sure of is that the price will fall significantly in the summer because he will have one year left on his deal and January prices are always massively inflated. I suspect we''d get him for £5m.

"should be top of the scoring charts playing for the best team by a country mile in that league. But hes not, he''s 5th in the scoring table"

Gary Hooper has played about 15% to 20% less league games than the four people above him in the scoring charts. I suppose that Adam Le Fondre is as good as Wayne Rooney and Jermaine Defoe? Because the top scorers table says so?

"Maybe we can buy that one marquee signing that people keep going on about"

For me Bassong as a marquee signing, I''d like to see another big one like that. His stock was down after a poor year at Wolves, but if we''d have signed him a year earlier he''d have cost a fortune. Another signing like that would make me happy.

"It''s what Hughton thinks and values him at that counts"

Indeed, and he has signed out of form players and got them playing fantastically. Bassong and Turner in particular. The former was terrible at Wolves, the latter couldn''t get in the Sunderland team. If Hughton signs Hooper then I''ll trust him.

"I would still say there are gems out there in Belgium, Czech Rep and Poland "

More interested in the MLS when a 10 goal a year attacking player can come and score a header like the one we saw on Saturday!

"Looking forward to the summer this time round as I''m sure there will be a few decent signings this year"

Me too.

"Still think Vaughan, Jackson and Martin are as good as gone by the end of this summer"

Me too.

[Not Nigel 0]

"I am not making wild assumptions at all. Given his age, and his family situation, I wouldn''t be surprised if he wanted to move north to be nearer his family. Its hardly wild, fantasy rumour, is it?"

The man himself has made the effort to insist to Norwich fans that he isn''t moving back there, the least that we can do is take him at face value. He may have made a big error of judgement in the timing and way that he dealt with his transfer request, but none of us have reason to believe that he is dishonest.

[morty 0]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]"I am not making wild assumptions at all. Given his age, and his family situation, I wouldn''t be surprised if he wanted to move north to be nearer his family. Its hardly wild, fantasy rumour, is it?"

The man himself has made the effort to insist to Norwich fans that he isn''t moving back there, the least that we can do is take him at face value. He may have made a big error of judgement in the timing and way that he dealt with his transfer request, but none of us have reason to believe that he is dishonest.[/quote]Yes I agree.But if the right deal came up, he''d take it. Theres no loyalties in football, and I would totally understand him putting his family first.

[Not Nigel 0]

Well I''m not saying that it may not happen, only that far too many Norwich fans seem to have jumped on that Carlisle thing and come to conclusions, I think it should be something for us to worry about should it happen.

I can''t really see what moves would suit him though. Sunderland, Newcastle, Everton, they are just about the only teams which are really all that closer to Carlisle.... it really is in the ass end of nowhere. Further from civilisation than Norwich.

He isn''t a Pardew type signing. Moyes likes one up front, which Holt hasn''t really shown himself as too effective at playing (Beckford scored 8 in 34 as a lone striker and got the chop), Sunderland is the only real possibility that I can see.

At least if it is Sunderland they will pay about 300% of his market value.

[Salopian 1]

Martin - as good as gone already

Vaughan - still has pace, but touch? Still has various injuries. We need to recoup something

Jackson - not really in favour any longer. We need a finisher, and he lacks a good shot.

Holt - who knows - would survival mean that he could leave on a high note?

Becchio - will be here, and with better service could score goals aplenty

Kamara - we must wait a few games, but certainly quick and strong, and good with his head

 

I think that we shall sign one or two, perhaps one established and one young but with potential. I hope that we aim higher than Hooper, and it looks as if we shall have to look to Europe.

[splutcho 173]

Just to double check, I may have read it wrong, was somebody making out that Lukaku was a bargain by asking how much Chelsea paid for him? Because the answer to that question is around £20m!

[ca 1]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Why does everybody on here think that Holt will leave? [/quote]

If you follow him on twitter you''ll know that Holt''s wife and children all moved back to Carlisle 2 weeks ago, you''d also know that hes devoted to his wife and kids and doesn''t talk about much else. So I personally dont see him commuting backwards and forwards to Carlisle after the games on Sat and coming back very early on Monday morning for 9.30am training for the next 2 years. I think he''ll be off in the summer without a doubt. 

 

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="singupcarrowroad"]"Woah, calm down and change your pants. No one is getting hissy about this apart from you. Most people consider the possability because of him, rightly, putting his family first. And whilst no one would like it, we would understand his reasons. Only one person here that needs to get a grip lol" You have pretty much just confirmed that people really are making wild assumptions from a 140 character tweet which Holt himself has confirmed does not imply that he wants to leave Norwich. So no, it is not me that needs to get a grip.[/quote]

I am not making wild assumptions at all. Given his age, and his family situation, I wouldn''t be surprised if he wanted to move north to be nearer his family. Its hardly wild, fantasy rumour, is it?
[/quote]

 

But Morty that is just as good an argument for him to stay.  A year maybe two seeing the family less often but earning the money to set him up for life is not too ridiculous.  Get the family settled in the long term home and live through some discomfort in the short term.

 

I do accept that his tweets show what a very close, loving family man he is and it may be hard so who knows.  The house in Carlisle is just as consistent with him seeing out his contract then taking a Bosman to Carlisle.

 

At a playing level, he is too important to lose.  His influence on gthe whole team is huge.  I disagree with those saying he would be disruptive on the bench.  He showed last season that he could knuckle down, come on and make a difference.

 

I could quite happily live with the Holt who was sub at Anfield last season.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Why does everybody on here think that Holt will leave? [/quote]

If you follow him on twitter you''ll know that Holt''s wife and children all moved back to Carlisle 2 weeks ago, you''d also know that hes devoted to his wife and kids and doesn''t talk about much else. So I personally dont see him commuting backwards and forwards to Carlisle after the games on Sat and coming back very early on Monday morning for 9.30am training for the next 2 years. I think he''ll be off in the summer without a doubt. 

 

[/quote]

I think that''s a very logical argument and I think your right. I will be very surprised if he is here next season but do not share singupcarrowroad''s fears that the world will end if he goes. That''s just football and we will move onward and upwards, his part in our recent history will always be on the record.

[Aggy 755]

Seems highly unlikely Holt will leave to me - yes he''s bought a second house, but do you think many footballers only have one? They generally move around a lot, and they''ve got plenty of money, so I doubt it''s overly uncommon for a professional footballer to have a house at "home" and then another house wherever they''re playing.

Holt pestered for a longer contract (the main issue was the length rather than the wage alone, let''s remember), so it would be a bit ridiculous of him to then leave for a club who will probably be paying him a lower wage, or an equal one for less time.

If he knows he''s only got another year or two at the top (and therefore probably only another year or two with City), and his kids are getting to school age, he probably thinks it''s better for them to go up there now rather than disrupting them in a few years time.

As for the rest of the strikers, I''d expect it to be Becchio, Holt, Kamara (probably), plus one other.

[Indy 3,300]

Lukaku fee was €12 million (around 9-12 million) not £20 million pounds, so in the sam region as Celtic were wanting for Hooper if the reports were right.

 

The difference is that Lukaku now is going to be worth what 16-20 million the same a Benteki, where as 8 million for Hooper is going to about as much as we would ever get for him if we wanted to sell.

 

I don''t see the quality in Hooper some on here do, but then again I don''t see the pace in Jackson or the any quality from Elliot Bennett as some do, Bennett is a total disapointment in my book given the hype when we signed him from Brighton.

 

Still I am looking forward to the summer to see who comes in.

[splutcho 173]

Fair enough. I read around £20m from two different places, guess that''s why you don''t trust the tabloids eh?

Looks a snip if the price you say is right.

[Indy 3,300]

You''re not wrong, there are all types of reports regarding Lukaku, but if the ball park is right from both Lukaku and Hooper then they were not too far apart on the price wnated and paid, the reason for my point, I was not having a dig nor trying to correct you like some do on here splutcho, sorry if it appeared like that.

 

[splutcho 173]

No, not at all, I was only quoting a price from a quick google, you more than likely know better than me!

[Not Nigel 0]

"If you follow him on twitter you''ll know that Holt''s wife and children all moved back to Carlisle 2 weeks ago, you''d also know that hes devoted to his wife and kids and doesn''t talk about much else"

I don''t follow him on twitter, because I don''t have twitter, but here''s a few things to consider:

1) who will take him?

2) why sign new contract?

3) he looks happy enough to me

4) his wife and kids lived in Carlisle until 2010

5) how did he cope without his family in Shrewsbury?

6) how did he cope without his family in Nottingham?

7) how will he pay his big new mortgage?

I seriously cannot see him dropping down a division. He''s spent ten years battling to make a decent living and to reach the top and he gets there at 29, he has realistically two years left at this level.

Do people seriously think that he is going to move to Bolton or Blackpool? The bloke has spent his whole live dreaming of Premier League football, he is going to enjoy it whilst he is here.

Two years really isn''t a great deal of time to wait to be back with his family, why do you think oil rig workers spend 6 months offshore? Its because they know they will never be as well paid again, they do it for the wonga.

What about active servicemen in Afghanistan? They put up with being away from their families.

"So I personally dont see him commuting backwards and forwards to Carlisle after the games on Sat and coming back very early on Monday morning for 9.30am training for the next 2 years. I think he''ll be off in the summer without a doubt"

So I assume that you have some sort of insight into his wife then? Or specifically, she hasn''t got a driving license? His wife and their kids can drive down on a Friday and go home on a Sunday night, he can go down when we haven''t got a game. Footballers get a good five weeks of pre-season, that''s the same amount of annual leave as any other man in this country who works away from home, of which I know many. You are assuming that Grant Holt''s wife will be expecting him to complete a 12 hour round trip every weekend, I''m pretty sure that she will be suitably well paid as a housewife and mother to put in some shifts on the motorway. His kids will also have half term holidays, and the summer holidays which coincide with pre-season training. You are looking at a good two and a half months of either Grant Holt or his kids being on holiday.

Failing that, there are alternative and arguably more sensible means of getting from Norfolk to Cumbria, specifically:

1. Taxi from House to Norwich Airport

2. Flight to Manchester

3. Shuttle to Train Station

4. Train to Carlisle

5. Taxi from Train Station to House

Could do that in three hours for about £150. Chump change for a Premier League footballer, and you can sleep on the train.

I know that Norfolk folk don''t ever really flee the nest, but the UK isn''t really a big and scary place, and kids don''t have to see daddy everyday.... many go to boarding schools, as it happens.

[Not Nigel 0]

Lukuku transfer fee was not £12m, it was £12m rising to £17m with add-ons.

Add-ons are conditional, but it is likely whatever conditions were placed on Lukuku will be fulfilled now that it is apparent that he is going to be a world class striker. There is a big difference between £12m and £17m.

And the figure was actually £20m, because Chelsea also agreed to pay Lukaku''s family £3.3m, due to an agreement that he had with Anderlecht, and Chelsea also agreed to pay the agent fee.... add another £2m. So in reality he cost £22.3m.

That was for an 18 year old who hardly played in his first year at the club.

Then you have the wages. Apparently West Brom could only afford to pay his wages because Chelsea agreed to loan him with no loan arrangement fee.

If West Brom struggle to match his wages then we can probably assume that he is on at least £50k per week. If we use that hypothetical figure of £50k per week over the course of his five year contract, then that''s an additional £13m in wages.

A Hooper £8m v Lukaku £12m argument is a simpletons argument. Lukaku''s cost over his five year contract period is likely £35m minimum, using the very conservative £50k a week for the calculation.... £7m per season.

[Indy 3,300]

Two facts to seriously consider, Holt signed his contract last summer, things might have changed in his personal life where his family didn''t settle and have since agreed to move back. So Holty signing this contract for three years deosn''t really matter, as I''m sure Holty is a family man first, footballer second.

 

The second thing to think about is that, we will be signing two or three strikers over the summer, it might just be that Holty will drop down the pecking order and I don''t think Holt is the type of player happy to sit on the bench through next season.

 

It might just be that Holty is hedging his bets, the fact is that his family have moved back up north and that will be very unsettling for Holt as it would be for any family man. So given the chance to play championship from home or premership mile away from your family, well tough choice to make and not a clear cut as some make out on here.

 

Holt has proven himself at Premiership, has made his money and at 32 might just know his time at this level is short, so a move to the north west might be on the cards.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]"If you follow him on twitter you''ll know that Holt''s wife and children all moved back to Carlisle 2 weeks ago, you''d also know that hes devoted to his wife and kids and doesn''t talk about much else"

I don''t follow him on twitter, because I don''t have twitter, but here''s a few things to consider:

1) who will take him?

2) why sign new contract?

3) he looks happy enough to me

4) his wife and kids lived in Carlisle until 2010

5) how did he cope without his family in Shrewsbury?

6) how did he cope without his family in Nottingham?

7) how will he pay his big new mortgage?

I seriously cannot see him dropping down a division. He''s spent ten years battling to make a decent living and to reach the top and he gets there at 29, he has realistically two years left at this level.

Do people seriously think that he is going to move to Bolton or Blackpool? The bloke has spent his whole live dreaming of Premier League football, he is going to enjoy it whilst he is here.

Two years really isn''t a great deal of time to wait to be back with his family, why do you think oil rig workers spend 6 months offshore? Its because they know they will never be as well paid again, they do it for the wonga.

What about active servicemen in Afghanistan? They put up with being away from their families.

"So I personally dont see him commuting backwards and forwards to Carlisle after the games on Sat and coming back very early on Monday morning for 9.30am training for the next 2 years. I think he''ll be off in the summer without a doubt"

So I assume that you have some sort of insight into his wife then? Or specifically, she hasn''t got a driving license? His wife and their kids can drive down on a Friday and go home on a Sunday night, he can go down when we haven''t got a game. Footballers get a good five weeks of pre-season, that''s the same amount of annual leave as any other man in this country who works away from home, of which I know many. You are assuming that Grant Holt''s wife will be expecting him to complete a 12 hour round trip every weekend, I''m pretty sure that she will be suitably well paid as a housewife and mother to put in some shifts on the motorway. His kids will also have half term holidays, and the summer holidays which coincide with pre-season training. You are looking at a good two and a half months of either Grant Holt or his kids being on holiday.

Failing that, there are alternative and arguably more sensible means of getting from Norfolk to Cumbria, specifically:

1. Taxi from House to Norwich Airport

2. Flight to Manchester

3. Shuttle to Train Station

4. Train to Carlisle

5. Taxi from Train Station to House

Could do that in three hours for about £150. Chump change for a Premier League footballer, and you can sleep on the train.

I know that Norfolk folk don''t ever really flee the nest, but the UK isn''t really a big and scary place, and kids don''t have to see daddy everyday.... many go to boarding schools, as it happens.[/quote]

Chances are he will be off . Sunderland would have him I''m sure and even  Celtic is a lot nearer to home for him than Norwich.

[Not Nigel 0]

"Two facts to seriously consider, Holt signed his contract last summer, things might have changed in his personal life where his family didn''t settle and have since agreed to move back"

His first ''househunting in Carlisle'' tweet came before he''d even submitted a transfer request, long before he signed the deal.

"The second thing to think about is that, we will be signing two or three strikers over the summer"

We will likely be losing three, possibly four, strikers in the summer: Vaughan, Jackson, Martin, possibly Kamara. If we don''t lose Kamara, then he is one of the signings. We have a LOT of positions to buy for, three strikers is highly unlikely. More like Kamara + one. Holt is above Becchio and Kamara in the pecking order for now, who is going to knock him off of his perch?

"Holt has proven himself at Premiership, has made his money"

Doubt he has made that much money.

So many people seem convinced that Holt wants to leave, he has stated firmly himself that he doesn''t want to leave, and this is all based on one 140 character tweet. Footballer buys house shocker. Honestly it is like tabloid fodder, write a 1200 word article based on 140 characters of information, that is basically what the world has become.

[Not Nigel 0]

"Chances are he will be off . Sunderland would have him I''m sure and even Celtic is a lot nearer to home for him than Norwich"

And what odds are you prepared to give me for that? What does ''chances'' mean? a 1 in 10 chance, a 9 in 10 chance?

There is a chance that I will win the lottery jackpot on Saturday, there is also a chance that I could be run over when I cross the road tonight.

All of this speculation seems to be based on the simple fact that he bought a house in Carlisle in late 2012, with no consideration given to the fact that he owned a house in Carlisle until 2010, and owned that house while playing in Shrewsbury and Nottingham.

[morty 0]

* hands out dry pairs of pants.

Bloody hell folks, we are only throwing a few ideas around here, calm down lol.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="canarygirl"][quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Why does everybody on here think that Holt will leave? [/quote]

If you follow him on twitter you''ll know that Holt''s wife and children all moved back to Carlisle 2 weeks ago, you''d also know that hes devoted to his wife and kids and doesn''t talk about much else. So I personally dont see him commuting backwards and forwards to Carlisle after the games on Sat and coming back very early on Monday morning for 9.30am training for the next 2 years. I think he''ll be off in the summer without a doubt. 

 

[/quote]

I think that''s a very logical argument and I think your right. I will be very surprised if he is here next season but do not share singupcarrowroad''s fears that the world will end if he goes. That''s just football and we will move onward and upwards, his part in our recent history will always be on the record.

[/quote]

 

I thought the world had ended when Ron Davies went off to Southampton, but...............................