Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
morty

Strikers.

Recommended Posts

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Why does everybody on here think that Holt will leave? [/quote]

If you follow him on twitter you''ll know that Holt''s wife and children all moved back to Carlisle 2 weeks ago, you''d also know that hes devoted to his wife and kids and doesn''t talk about much else. So I personally dont see him commuting backwards and forwards to Carlisle after the games on Sat and coming back very early on Monday morning for 9.30am training for the next 2 years. I think he''ll be off in the summer without a doubt. 

 

[/quote]

 

But I would have thought he already had plans for them to move back last summer. He''d been here three years by then.

 

It seemed like half the world didn''t think he was worth an extra year back then so surely Sunderland or whoever won''t be offering him a two year deal while buying the rest of his contract from us.

 

I accept he may be on his way but I think a lot of this is wishful thinking by people who don''t rate him. I think and hope he''ll stay for the duration of his contract or at least until the January before it ends.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Singup, you are correct regarding the follow up clauses, you got your facts from the mail online, which subsequently went from 20 million down to 18 million a few weeks later, but you are correct to point out the other clauses regarding family, but the initial fee was still at an estimated 12 million Euros not pounds according to other sources.

 

That aside we can all take figures from here there and anywhere, Lukaku and Hooper are both a gamble at this level for the similar initial fee but Lukaku gives you so much more plus he is a full blown Belguim international, given that side has talent not bad seeing as he has 19 caps.

 

Going away from Lukaku, there are other players out there who would demand a fee we can afford and potentially better ability.

 

As for Holt, I''m sure Holt has earned more tham you & I will through our entire working life in his time here, so when you  say he hasn''t earned that much let''s get some perspective.

 

We can all make cases for Holt to stay or go, but none of us know for sure, only Holt will know what he wants to do, step down, sideways or stay, the ball is in his court.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"As for Holt, I''m sure Holt has earned more tham you & I will through our entire working life in his time here, so when you say he hasn''t earned that much let''s get some perspective"

He can''t have been on decent money until the Championship, and not on superb money until the beginning of this season. If he is paid £20k a week his annual salary is £1,040,000.....

How much do you think his take home is? This year on that gross salary his take home would be £517k

Of course that is a hell of a lot of money, but he has only had his new deal for what.. three quarters of a season. I''m sure he can put up with missing his kids for a couple of years for half a million after tax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="singupcarrowroad"]"Chances are he will be off . Sunderland would have him I''m sure and even Celtic is a lot nearer to home for him than Norwich"

And what odds are you prepared to give me for that? What does ''chances'' mean? a 1 in 10 chance, a 9 in 10 chance?

There is a chance that I will win the lottery jackpot on Saturday, there is also a chance that I could be run over when I cross the road tonight.

All of this speculation seems to be based on the simple fact that he bought a house in Carlisle in late 2012, with no consideration given to the fact that he owned a house in Carlisle until 2010, and owned that house while playing in Shrewsbury and Nottingham.[/quote]
Ha ha, specific odds required eh?   When I used the phrase " chances are" for me it conveyed that it was more likely that he would go rather than stay.[:)]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So singup, you don''t think that Holt was on 12K a week or more last year, proabably 8K a week in his championship season then no doubt promotion bonuses?

 

I would swap what Holt will have earned in his time with Norwich for my lifetime money. I wish I earned a year what Holt takes home each month.

 

I''m sure he would be able to put up his feet and enjoy a comfortable standard of living from now until the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okayyy, as Morty said, it''s just a few ideas being banded around. Here''s another one, how about losing Jackson and getting Weimann in (who apparently has turned down an improved offer on his current {18 months to run} contract)? Villa are obviously keen to keep him, but surely will not get a positive reaction, until at least they secure Prem status for next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weimann is an interesting thought Crabby. Will have to watch him a bit more closely.

 

Now on Hooper, he''s not my cup of tea at all, but it''s very hard to argue with Hughton''s judgement of players. Hopefully by the summer he will have more options open and will be able to get in someone a step up from Hooper.

 

I reckon that close to Hughton''s best piece of business since he''s been with us was moving on Morison and his sulky ways. If Becchio doesn''t work out he''ll be much easier to sell on which may be rather sooner than later - to me he doesn''t have a spark about him and he looks (on that big screen TV [;)] ) rather heavy to me........Hope I''m wrong.

 

Vaughan looks a prem player but is far too injury prone. I''d move him out in the summer with my best wishes for an extended spell of good luck, along with Jackson and Martin.

 

Now Kei Kamara, I have great hopes for him. What an impact, what a thumping header, what energy! And a character too. I pray his dreams come true.

 

OTBC

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I would swap what Holt will have earned in his time with Norwich for my lifetime money. I wish I earned a year what Holt takes home each month"

Of course you would swap your income for a higher income, that doesn''t explain why you think Holt will swap his income for a lower one.

"I''m sure he would be able to put up his feet and enjoy a comfortable standard of living from now until the end"

And I''m sure that he could enjoy a much higher standard of living by staying up here for a couple of years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="drurys testamonials V 15"]

[quote user="morty"]I still wonder if Vaughn has something to offer though?[/quote]

 

Vaughan would probably offer plenty of practise for the physio team.

[/quote]Vaughan played 27 games this season, scored several match winners/points savers, so arguably he makes the difference for Huddersfield between relegation and survival. He has great pace and good touch, which make him fit for the lone striker role better than Becchio, so if he keeps his form and remains injury-free I''d keep him (supposing that we won''t sign two electrically fast strikers in he summer). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He''s (Vaughan) scored 7 goals in 27 appearances for Huddersfield. He also only scored 9 goals in 30 appearances for Crystal Palace before we signed him. He''s hardly prolific at Championship level, so I really don''t understand what more he would offer to us than a bit of pace off the bench.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Vaughan played 27 games this season, scored several match winners/points savers, so arguably he makes the difference for Huddersfield between relegation and survival. "

Yet on the Huddersfield Town Official Site you will not find a player profile or his name appearing in the STATS section. Are they trying to pretend they have not got him on loan so our Club forget about him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''d just flog the bloke personally.

26 career goals in 129 career games, 7 premier league goals in 52 premier league games.

I think he''s playing at his level and if we can get half a million for him then we should cash in.

Whether his ''level'' would have been much higher were it not for being ravaged by injury is up for debate, and you can''t fault his effort and commitment, but sitting around at Carrow Road being a bit part player at 25 after spending more time injured than fit for the last seven years is going to do nothing for his career and I can''t really see what we will get out of it either.

Personally can''t see how he is an improvement on Simeon Jackson, both good Championship players but we should be aiming higher if we need to progress, otherwise we might as well had kept Steve Morison who will probably outscore both Vaughan and Jackson in the Championship if all three are playing in that league next year.

His true record for Huddersfield this year is 7 in 27 when counting cup games, Chris Martin scored 7 in 28 at Crystal Palace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Although I shall be desperately disappointed to see Holt leave - I fear to think what division we would currently be languishing in without his contribution - I think he''s likely to leave in the Summer. I hope I''m wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Although I shall be desperately disappointed to see Holt leave - I fear to think what division we would currently be languishing in without his contribution - I think he''s likely to leave in the Summer. I hope I''m wrong"

You are probably wrong. Besides, he can ask to leave all he wants, he signed a new contract and we don''t have to accept the request. He had two years left on his deal in the summer, signed a three year deal on probably more money, and then he leaves after one year? What would have been the point in us giving him a new deal, when he would still have had a year to run this summer?

I am convinced that Holt will be here for the duration of next season and I''d be willing to lay down a tenner in a charity bet with you Highland Canary if you are prepared to put your money where your mouth is. Ten quid to any charity on JustGiving if Holt is still here on 1st February 2014 (day after transfer window closes).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don''t see the big deal about Vaughan. Initially when we signed him I was quite pleased but having seen him in his few brief appearances in a yellow shirt and then seeing him play for Huddersfield I don''t think he''s cut out to be a good standard of Premier League striker.

 

He''s got a bit of pace, he''s got a goal in him and there''s no doubt that he will compete for the ball but from what I''ve seen his all round game is too erratic. I don''t think that his use of the ball and his decision making is good enough.

 

Perhaps in the future he will sharpen himself up a bit and the rough edges will be smoothed out but we didn''t miss him last season and we haven''t missed him this season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To survive in the Premier League next season, Norwich will need a striker (or two) considerably better than we have now. The influx of cash will see clubs from bottom to top being able to add quality players from across Europe - Vaughan, Jackson etc just aren''t at the level will we need to be at.

 

As much as it is sad to say so, Holt also won''t be at that level either - his performances this season aren''t of the level they were the previous one, not just due to the formation and style of football, last year Holt was excellent at the link up play, so far this season around he hasn''t been so effective at this.

 

Even if you believe his drop off in form is down to the formation - it is unlikely Hughton will want to move too far away from 4-2-3-1 (4-5-1, 4-4-1-1) next season as it is a highly flexible and solid formation; Norwich need a striker to suit this style of play and in my opinion Holt has shown he isn''t best suited as a lone striker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish East Anglia''s Children''s Hospices were on a pay per point deal for the amount they exceed Highland''s expectations.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow,

We could argue all day about whether Holt''s form has been good or bad, or whether or not he has been hindered by our system and formation, but irrespective of the reasons - and my opinions do differ from yours - there are 11 games left in this season, Holt missed a month through injury, and it is perfectly possible that he could still finish in double figures.

You would at least agree that it would be unfair to conclude that Holt has had a poor season until the season has finished? What with there being 29% of the season left to go.

I also disagree that it is "unlikely Hughton will want to move too far away from 4-2-3-1 (4-5-1, 4-4-1-1) next season", because before coming to Norwich he had a strong precedent for electing to choose to play 4-4-2 in his two prior managerial appointments.

It is entirely possible that Hughton elected to play 4-5-1 this season because he decided that he needed to invest the bulk of his budget in defensive players rather than attacking players and simply didn''t rate Jackson, Martin, and Vaughan, which is understandable because all three are Championship strikers.

The most likely scenario next season will be to typically play 4-4-2 at home and 4-5-1 away from home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hughton is not stupid either, he will know that Hoolahan isn''t getting any younger, he will know that Howson is best in a 4-4-2.

It would be perfectly legitimate for him to use 4-4-2 to rest Hoolahan and play Howson, and use 4-5-1 to rest Holt and play Becchio.

This season Hughton has had a core group of 15 to 16 players that he likes using, and then 7 or 8 that he doesn''t rate in the slightest.

That has a lot more to do with his unwillingness to rotate and tinker. With 5 or 6 new signings of his own I suspect we will see him use at least two possibly three formations.... like most managers in this league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest as much as we all love Holt and he still has a job to do next season if he''s still here........I for one would be dissapointed in our transfers this summer come the first premiership game, if City''s team sheet has Holt starting.

 

Nothing against Holty, but with the budget we are supposed to have and the one area we all agree needs major additiona to is the front line.

 

I would think that Becchio, Kamara will be in line for the team and I hope as bethnal says we sign at least one if not two better class of strikers during the summer.

 

Your obsession with Holt is commendable singup, but sometimes to move on we have to drop the players we all love.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If we have four strikers next season, and Holt, Becchio, and Kamara are three of them, then I''d be putting Kamara and Becchio on the bench.

I assume that you all think that Crouch, Jelavic, and Adebayor are Premier League strikers? Best go check out their goalscoring form this season.

I don''t know how an "obsession" would ever be "commendable", I just don''t understand how fellow fans have failed to simply recognise that Holt is a very good striker who has never been effective as a lone striker.

Lambert tried him there for a few games in the Championship, and we never saw him play as a lone striker again.

I still rate Holt as a Premier League quality player who has simply had a bit of poor form in a system which didn''t really suit him.

I can remember Alan Shearer going 13 games without a goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you thought of setting up a Holt Fan Club?

 

None of us are saying anything bad about Holt, we all want him to stay, no one wants him to go, we all know the job he does and has done.......yes as you other thread again Holt inspired (Starting to worry you might be Holts agent), he scored goals again this year.

 

Who is saying that Crouch, Jelavic or Adebayor are the players we will be buying to improve our team? Not me or Hughton I''m sure.

 

I wait to see who signs in the summer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Have you thought of setting up a Holt Fan Club?"

That doesn''t sound like such a bad idea to me, can''t think of many better people to set one up for. Although I doubt his ego needs one.

"None of us are saying anything bad about Holt, we all want him to stay, no one wants him to go, we all know the job he does and has done"

Well that''s not strictly true is it? Bethnal has pretty much made it clear that he doesn''t think that Holt is good enough to stay.

"(Starting to worry you might be Holts agent)"

I wish. That''s a good point, by the way, his agent is hardly going to be pushing for Holt to move to some Championship team on £6k a week is he.

"Who is saying that Crouch, Jelavic or Adebayor are the players we will be buying to improve our team? Not me or Hughton I''m sure"

Well a realistic fan would no doubt realise that no striker that we sign is going to be superior to any of those three... This Van Wolfswinkel chap has never actually exceeded 15 goals domestically in one season, and if people on here are to be believed Gary Hooper is a Championship player in a league full of part-timers. We aren''t exactly going to buy Klaas-Jan Huntelaar.

"I wait to see who signs in the summer"

Hopefully Gary Hooper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trouble is that your stats thred can be added to with Kamara, his ration is 1 goal every 62 minutes, that 1.5 gols per game, far better than Holt........

 

You nor I know who we will sign in the summer, nor do we know the quality of that stiker! The point above is that on paper as you have stated in that tribute to Holt thread statistics are easy to manipulate, as above.

 

Do you really think that Holt will be our star stiker next year? Really or do you hope he will?

 

Seriously, I agree with you, he''s a fantastic player and has more to give, but he''s not going to move us onto the next level, we need stikers who will put Holt on the bench, if we can''t sign theses type of players then we will struggle again next year to find goals.

 

I think you might find that Kamara will have a storming end to this season, will be signed and will be on the team sheet alongside that marquee signing. Holt and Becchio will be starting on the bench, but that''s just my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Indy"]

Do you really think that Holt will be our star stiker next year? Really or do you hope he will?

 

Seriously, I agree with you, he''s a fantastic player and has more to give, but he''s not going to move us onto the next level, we need stikers who will put Holt on the bench, if we can''t sign theses type of players then we will struggle again next year to find goals.

 

[/quote]

 

These are the exact points I''ve been trying to make - I have nothing against Holt and all he has achieved for the club. He has been as important to Norwich''s success as Lambert and Hoolahan - but everyone has their time. The only reason I talk about Grant moving on is beacuse I don''t think he would be happy to be 3rd or possibly 4th choice striker (depending on signings and form) next season - I also believe it would make for a difficult situation between the fans and the management. It''s usually better if these things are ended on a high rather than a player sitting on the bench and becoming disenchanted and a trouble maker.

 

If a deal comes in for Holt which is right for him and the club in the close season then let him go - rather than hope he can keep defying the aging process. It is impossible to know who Norwich will bring in next summer, but if the hints we saw in January are anything to work on they won''t be unknowns from the lower leagues. If Hughton still feels Holt can offer something, and Grant himself is happy to be on the bench more often than the pitch then fine; otherwise it is in everyone''s best interest he leaves. That might sound harsh, callous and disloyal but Norwich won''t get any points for being sentimental next season.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Do you really think that Holt will be our star stiker next year? Really or do you hope he will?"

Well I wouldn''t avoid signing a highly rated striker in case he relegates my favourite player to the bench, if that''s what you mean, but I also know that you can spend a hell of a lot of money on a striker - even one who is proven in this league - and they can flop. So the potential is there for us to go and spend £10m on a striker who proves to be the best striker we have ever had, the potential is also there for us to spend £10m on a striker who proves to be no more effective or even less effective than Holt.

I want us to go out and spend a big whack on a striker, and of course I want that striker to be quality, but at the same time I''d appreciate that the chances of that striker having a fantastic and fruitful Premier League career with a hatful of goals would probably be 50/50. Holt is our only proven Premier League striker at this precise moment in time. Jury is out on Becchio and Kamara, but jury will also still be out if we spend £10m on some bloke from Portugal or France.

"we need stikers who will put Holt on the bench"

The chances of us being able to sign two strikers in the summer who will put Holt on the bench are probably very slim. The best that we can hope for is that our inevitable £8m to £12m marquee striker signing called Manny Van Golstriker relegates Holt to #2 status with Kamara being a great option to have off the bench or even the left wing.

"think you might find that Kamara will have a storming end to this season"

People are talking about Kamara as a striker a lot, but he has actually just played three years as a goalscoring winger who happens to be extremely good in the air. One good header a premier league striker makes not, Kamara is a marked man at every set piece going forward (like Bassong, Turner and Holt are now) I''m more interested in seeing what he can do from the flanks and I shall consider his goals from corners and set-pieces to be a huge bonus. I''ll judge him on what he can do over 90 minutes, how many chances he needs with his feet to score, and how capable he is at beating his man out wide. All we''ve seen so far is him scoring a header. Morison, Holt, and Becchio, are/were also good with their head.

"Holt and Becchio will be starting on the bench, but that''s just my opinion"

Or perhaps Kamara will be starting on the wing, with Snodgrass on the left and Pilkington on the bench, with Jordi Van Shearer up front with Grant Holt and Becchio on the bench. I agree with Becchio on the bench though, I have to wonder whether he was a Hughton panic buy actually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bethnal,

What would create a more "difficult situation between the fans and the management" out of these two scenarios:

1). Holt being used from the bench as our two new strikers are playing fantastically and scoring goals.

2). Holt scoring goals for Sunderland alongside his mate Danny Graham whilst our two new big money continental strikers struggle to adapt to the pace of the Premier League and the language barriers which exist between the players, not helped by the fact that our new captain Sebastian Bassong isn''t actually up to the job despite appearing to have been the ideal candidate.

We can all create hypothetical scenarios to further an argument, but all hypothetical arguments can be countered with the polar opposite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Budapest Canary"][quote user="drurys testamonials V 15"]

[quote user="morty"]I still wonder if Vaughn has something to offer though?

[/quote]

 

Vaughan would probably offer plenty of practise for the physio team.

[/quote]

Vaughan played 27 games this season, scored several match winners/points savers, so arguably he makes the difference for Huddersfield between relegation and survival. He has great pace and good touch, which make him fit for the lone striker role better than Becchio, so if he keeps his form and remains injury-free I''d keep him (supposing that we won''t sign two electrically fast strikers in he summer). 
[/quote]

 

if

 

Never has such a small word had such huge implications

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...