Foxy

[lake district canary 0]

Howson, Tettey and Johnson can barely make a simple pass, yet the best passer in our squad by a country mile gets overlooked time and time again. Baffling.

All I hear from City fans is that he got his chance against Luton and blew it. So did several other first teamers in this game i.e. Howson, and they were terrible, yet they get chance after chance.

David Fox''s defensive play isn''t up to much. Why is an issue if you play him alongside a battler? Johnson breaks up the play and then gives it away - what''s the point.

[killiecanary 0]

Absolutely agree

Time for him to get a chance - nobody playing in that central midfield area is covering themselves with glory anyway, so why not give him a run?

I suspect he might have a better chance of playing a few once we look absolutely safe from relegation

[Greg 0]

Totally correct.

I have been saying this all season. Having him in the team means we can actually keep the ball. Why howson is in the team ahead of him will always confuse me.

[NorwichNorth 0]

I agree, my only problem is that he has hardly played any football so to come in and start a prem game and play well will be hard!!

I also dont agree that he had his chance and did nothing i.e Luton!! Having a chance is playing a prem game not a capital 1 cup or FA cup game. The guy has played 8 mins of prem football hardly a chance to make an impression!!

[GJP 79]

[quote user="greg_hull"]Why howson is in the team ahead of him will always confuse me.[/quote]

Doesn''t confuse me. Howson is the better all round player.

 

I can appreciate that David Fox is a nice passer of the ball and he is perhaps unlucky to have missed out as much as he has but in the grand scheme of things he is not the answer.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="greg_hull"]Why howson is in the team ahead of him will always confuse me.[/quote]

Doesn''t confuse me. Howson is the better all round player.

[/quote]Howson may be an ''all round player'', but better?   I have not seen anything from him yet to warrant a place in the side.

[lake district canary 0]

A better all-round player who struggles to make the most simple of balls.

Talk about a contradictory statement!

[Helsinki canary 302]

He clearly should of been bought on today in the 2nd half, he has the potential to unlock defenses, people moan about the strikers but the key to the problem is the service and extremely defensive strategy, Fox would certainly open things but maybe he is seen as too high risk, but as others have said Johnson as the ball winner and fox as the distributor should be given a go....

[Norfolk Mustard 106]

Fox could have made a massive impact playing in front of the back four today. With the ball sticking in the mud and players misjudging the bounce, our playmaker extraordinaire could have helped us glue it together.

No good saying Howson is the superior footballer; he misplaced far too many balls today and generally offers fewer defensive qualities than Fox.

We missed Tettey in a huge way this afternoon - hope he returns soon!

 

[GJP 79]

Thing is if David Fox was as good as everyone seems to think then surely Hughton would be unable to overlook him. Moreover, surely other clubs would be desperate to buy him from us.

 

However, to me he''s become overrated. Infact the less he plays the more highly thought of he''s becoming.

 

David Fox is a very good passer but what people seem to fail to realise is that people just run past him in midfield. He can''t get near people due to his real lack of pace and an engine.

 

Howson has not had the credit he deserves today for putting in a big shift in midfield just because he gave the ball away a couple of times. People cannot see the bigger picture.

 

And the bigger picture for this season is that Chris Hughton is trying to make us harder to beat and harder to score against. This is something Howson is far better equipped to contribute to than Fox is, even though defence isn''t Howson''s strong suit he''s still better to have doing that job than Fox.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Thing is if David Fox was as good as everyone seems to think then surely Hughton would be unable to overlook him. Moreover, surely other clubs would be desperate to buy him from us.

However, to me he''s become overrated. Infact the less he plays the more highly thought of he''s becoming. 

David Fox is a very good passer but what people seem to fail to realise is that people just run past him in midfield. He can''t get near people due to his real lack of pace and an engine.

[/quote]

David Fox was the most accurate crosser of the ball in the premier league last season.  And he is the 2nd best passer at the club behind Hoolahan.  He also is capable of attacking passes, accurate long passes and through balls.  He is a poor man''s Carrick.

 [quote user="GJP"]

Howson has not had the credit he deserves today for putting in a big shift in midfield just because he gave the ball away a couple of times. People cannot see the bigger picture.[/quote]

Howson gave the ball away 9 times in 28 passes today.  Not exactly difficult passes either..  Howson''s is lightweight, seems to lose concentration easily and really I fail to see what he offers right now.  He is hardly an ''engine'' he must have ventured into the opposition third about twice all game.  He was a complete passenger.  Maybe he will come good at some point, but he is nowhere near the required level at the moment.

[GJP 79]

Yes, I am well aware of what David Fox is good at but the problem is what he doesn''t give you.

 

Going forward Howson is the far better prospect. We''ve seen the best of Fox.

 

Who would teams be more interesting in buying from us, Howson or Fox? Who would command a higher transfer fee? It''d be Howson, no doubt.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="GJP"]Yes, I am well aware of what David Fox is good at but the problem is what he doesn''t give you. [/quote]And what is Howson offering us right now? Aside from giving the ball away needlessly.[quote user="GJP"]

Going forward Howson is the far better prospect.

[/quote]

Howson has shown little that makes me think he has a future at NCFC.  He needs to improve dramatically or will prove to be another of Lambert''s January signings that flops. He will be 25 in May, hardly a spring chicken.

[quote user="GJP"]

We''ve seen the best of Fox.

[/quote]David Fox is 29, nothing wrong with his age.

[ron obvious 1,711]

I disagree strongly with the OP''s comments about Tettey. He is very good at making simple passes - look at his pass completion rate.His job is to harass the opposition, break up play, win the ball back & lay the ball off to Snodgrass or Wes, which he does extremely well.

You could indeed make a good case for playing him alongside Fox, but at the moment Hughton is far more concerned about midfield solidity.

I have to say, however, that I''d give Fox a try ahead of Howson!

[ZLF 334]

Going forward butterfield is also a prospect, but he is learning his trade in a lower league. Again howson showed today just we he should not be in our starting line up. Weak, slow, not tracking runners offering no protection at the back and no creativity going forward. He is out of his depth this season but is worth keeping for next. He has now started in 14 games and not shown anything to suggest why he deserves another or that he has been any better than Fox.

However we need some stability and ability this season, Howson is not able to give either. Fox is one of those options who has been overlooked despite being no worse than howson, who is all elegance of looks over substance.

Right now wes offers more in the middle, covers more ground, tackles as often, creates more and is a class above him.

Whittaker would offer a better defensive anchor

Fox would make as more tackles and at 29 is not exactly past it.

I would revert to 451, put whittaker or fox at the base and let wes dictate the middle with Kei up front

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="GJP"]

Yes, I am well aware of what David Fox is good at but the problem is what he doesn''t give you.
[/quote]

And what is Howson offering us right now? Aside from giving the ball away needlessly.

[quote user="GJP"]

Going forward Howson is the far better prospect.

[/quote]

Howson has shown little that makes me think he has a future at NCFC.  He needs to improve dramatically or will prove to be another of Lambert''s January signings that flops. He will be 25 in May, hardly a spring chicken.

[quote user="GJP"]

We''ve seen the best of Fox.

[/quote]

David Fox is 29, nothing wrong with his age.
[/quote]

How many people noticed the lovely cushioned header Howson played into Snodgrass in the build up to the penalty we should have been given? That''s the kind of thing I think gets overlooked because fans always seem to find it easier to spot the obvious errors rather than the nicer bits of play that go unnoticed because a mistake hasn''t been made.

 

Howson isn''t playing to his best at the moment but he''s had a very disjointed season and the way we play perhaps doesn''t always play to his strengths but he is a talented player and it''d be utterly foolish and naive to think otherwise.

 

I never said there was anything wrong with David Fox''s age. I said we''ve seen the best of him. There''s a difference.

 

Players go through bad spells of form and I sometimes think it''d be nice if the crowd got behind players, especially if they''re still putting in the hard work, unfortunately for Howson there are already people in the stands who are getting on his case because they want their pound of flesh, they want him to f*ck up so they can turn around and say "told you so".

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="GJP"]Players go through bad spells of form and I sometimes think it''d be nice if the crowd got behind players, especially if they''re still putting in the hard work, unfortunately for Howson there are already people in the stands who are getting on his case because they want their pound of flesh, they want him to f*ck up so they can turn around and say "told you so".

[/quote]

Getting on the players case is never a good thing.  But calling for an out of form player to be dropped on a message board is something quite different.  I think we miss Fox''s speed of thought, the way he dictates play as well as his range of passing.  Howson always seems a tad slow in making the pass, Fox seems to have already decided where he will pass the ball before he even receives it.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="GJP"]Players go through bad spells of form and I sometimes think it''d be nice if the crowd got behind players, especially if they''re still putting in the hard work, unfortunately for Howson there are already people in the stands who are getting on his case because they want their pound of flesh, they want him to f*ck up so they can turn around and say "told you so".

[/quote]

Getting on the players case is never a good thing.  But calling for an out of form player to be dropped on a message board is something quite different.  I think we miss Fox''s speed of thought, the way he dictates play as well as his range of passing.  Howson always seems a tad slow in making the pass, Fox seems to have already decided where he will pass the ball before he even receives it.

[/quote]

It is also easier to play good passes when you''re not covering loads of ground and not mixing it up. Fox really only operates in a small area of the pitch, he picks the ball up in areas where he isn''t necessarily having to compete for it.

 

Physically Howson is putting in a much bigger shift than Fox would and it isn''t as easy to get everything right when you''re a bit tired because you have been putting in the work.

 

I just don''t think Howson has played anywhere near badly as what a lot of people on here seem to think and I''d guess the manager and his team mates would probably think the same.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

I think it''s harsh to criticise anyone for a lack of passing accuracy today. Pitch was awful and none of our advance players (excluding Hoolahan & Pilkington) were able to pass correctly. 

Pass Accuracuy:

Howson- 67%

Johnson- 64%

Kamara- 64%

Snodgrass- 59%

To mention Howson specifically for ''losing the ball'' when he had a better passing accuracy then most Norwich players on the pitch is very harsh IMO.

What we really lacked was the two deeper players in Southamptons system. Jack Cork attempted 60 passes with an 87% passing accuracy, Schneiderlin, 52 attempted, 87% accurate

Fox could put up those numbers, I''m pretty sure, but I doubt he would do anywhere as much physical or defensive work as either of them. Fact is, none of our central midfielders are all around good enough. Fox has the passing ability, but none of the physicality. Johnson has the defensive attributes, but not the technique. Tettey and Howson are probably the closest we''ve got to complete midfielders. And Howson is really, really out of form at the moment. 

Expect reinforcements in that area in the summer. Probably someone in the Tettey mold (a reliable, accurate passer with good mobility and defensive workrate.)

[smooth 114]

Pjf totally agree. Howson is a player who can become very good. Play him in the right way with better players around him and he will excel.

Fox is not the answer right now, he is free to go in the summer and he can get a role at a championship team. He does not have the attributes to be competent in a 442 in the premier league.

I think the answer is Whittaker.

We need him in our team, if we continue to play r Martin at right back then we need to find a space for Whittaker. Right now I can see him in our midfield for Sunderland.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Physically Howson is putting in a much bigger shift than Fox would and it isn''t as easy to get everything right when you''re a bit tired because you have been putting in the work.

[/quote]

Hardly... Howson makes very few tackles and blocks and doesn''t track his man. On top of this Howson and BJ give the ball away repeatedly. Is it any wonder they have to do so much defending?

[hogesar 10,761]

If Howson was playing well, i''d have no qualms about him playing ahead of Fox.

However, it''s not like Howson is consistently breaking up play, marking and tracking back well, tackling well, passing well, positioning himself well etc etc.

He seems to put himself under unnecessary pressure on the ball, doesn''t release it quick enough. He isn''t passing well.

GJP might well say that we could be overrun in midfield with Fox but im pretty sure the same thing is happening with Howson - only difference is Fox''s range of passing is significantly better. Fox very very rarely gives the ball away, the main reason Lambert liked him so much.

If Howson was playing at his best then yes, by all means his engine etc come into it. But he''s not, that''s the point.

Fox deserves a chance.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="GJP"]

Physically Howson is putting in a much bigger shift than Fox would and it isn''t as easy to get everything right when you''re a bit tired because you have been putting in the work.

[/quote] Hardly... Howson makes very few tackles and blocks and doesn''t track his man. On top of this Howson and BJ give the ball away repeatedly. Is it any wonder they have to do so much defending?[/quote]

Howson makes it considerably harder for the opposition to play how they want to than Fox does, I can assure you of that.

 

Remember in the latter stages of the Everton game there was a break on with Oviedo (who is very quick) but Howson matched the run and killed it? Fox wouldn''t have been anywhere near it and the Everton player would have been well away.

 

We''re considerably harder to beat this season (hence all the clean sheets we''ve accumulated) and that is partly because we are competing harder in midfield. Johnson, Tettey and Howson. None of them knock the ball around as nice as Fox does but all of them but in a significantly harder shift physically.

 

I''m not saying Howson is playing like Zidane because he isn''t but he is working hard for the team and the manager will realise that - but unfortunately it''ll go over the heads of a lot of the fans. I''d have more of a gripe with Howson if he wasn''t trying but he is trying and he deserves better than what he''s getting from the fans at the moment.

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Howson makes it considerably harder for the opposition to play how they want to than Fox does, I can assure you of that.

Remember in the latter stages of the Everton game there was a break on with Oviedo (who is very quick) but Howson matched the run and killed it? Fox wouldn''t have been anywhere near it and the Everton player would have been well away. 

We''re considerably harder to beat this season (hence all the clean sheets we''ve accumulated) and that is partly because we are competing harder in midfield. Johnson, Tettey and Howson. None of them knock the ball around as nice as Fox does but all of them but in a significantly harder shift physically. 

I''m not saying Howson is playing like Zidane because he isn''t but he is working hard for the team and the manager will realise that - but unfortunately it''ll go over the heads of a lot of the fans. I''d have more of a gripe with Howson if he wasn''t trying but he is trying and he deserves better than what he''s getting from the fans at the moment.[/quote]

Howson gives them the ball back! How easy do you want him to make them play?! He also seems to offer very little going forward. Bizarre for a supposed attacking midfield player. 

No-one is claiming Howson is not working hard for the side. I am claiming he is putting in below par performances on the football pitch. And his poor stats this season (and last season) back this up. 

I also do not agree with your assertion that we are harder to beat this season. We have lost 10 of 29 games this season. We lost 11 of 29 last season. Statistically there is nothing in it.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

I think the problem is that no matter who we seem to play in CM we always seem to be lacking "something".Now I dont know what that "something" is or whether we can afford a player who will give us that "something" but when Tettey first joined I believed that he was solution.I also dont believe that Foxy is definitely the answer either but he definitely deserves a go I think.

[can u sit down please 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Thing is if David Fox was as good as everyone seems to think then surely Hughton would be unable to overlook him. Moreover, surely other clubs would be desperate to buy him from us.

 

However, to me he''s become overrated. Infact the less he plays the more highly thought of he''s becoming.

 

David Fox is a very good passer but what people seem to fail to realise is that people just run past him in midfield. He can''t get near people due to his real lack of pace and an engine.

 

Howson has not had the credit he deserves today for putting in a big shift in midfield just because he gave the ball away a couple of times. People cannot see the bigger picture.

 

And the bigger picture for this season is that Chris Hughton is trying to make us harder to beat and harder to score against. This is something Howson is far better equipped to contribute to than Fox is, even though defence isn''t Howson''s strong suit he''s still better to have doing that job than Fox.

[/quote]He also overlooked wes for the first 5/6 games.....JOhnson is the biggest culprit at losing his marker in the box. Fox is no worse.

[lake district canary 0]

There seems to be an obsession with centra midfielders who can tackle and "get stuck in", however, the likes of Johnson, Tettey et al have all been in the side when we''ve taken thumpings at the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool.

David Fox''s qualities are certainly not defensively, but what he offers going forward cannot be underestimated. We struggle to score goals; not because of poor finishing but because we don''t create an awful lot of chances. Foxy would help us in thi way and help us retain the ball better. He knows exactly where he''s going to put it before it gets to him. We keep it moving and look much more lively going forward.

My suggestion (although maybe too late; the boy has had hardly any football this season) is to play him alongside one of the lads who break it up.

Anybody that was at London Road for the Cup game would have seen Foxy''s ball for Jacko''s goal. He saw his man, saw the pass and floated the perfect ball from 40 or 50 yards. No fluke. It was genius. It''s this sort of play we need if we''re going to create more chances.