Bradwell canary 112 Posted February 8, 2013 Foreign Owners? The over riding factors in the EPL and to some extend in the other leagues has been in influx of Super rich foreign owners buying up clubs as merely playthings. They have so much money, in many cases from the oil they constantly screw us for. Overall that, and the Sky TV money, has spoilt football to a great extend. They have no qualms about sacking perfectly decent managers, who have done a first class job or them. The way in which Chelsea, QPR & Southampton have acted this season is beyond words. They have both totally disillusioned most of their supporters, but does that for one minute bother them? Of course not. Some should never have passed the so called fit and proper person test. An ex Man City owner wanted in his own country. The goings on that eventually left Portsmouth in collapse. The list is almost endless. Even in the Championship, foreign owners buy up in the thought that it would be easy for them to buy their way into the Premiership. The new owners of Leeds don’t seem to be as wealthy as first promised. The latest goings on at Forest is also beyond belief. One day some of these people will just decide on a whim to leave, can you imagine the fire sales that will have to take place. They subsidise the clubs to such an extend that a total destruction and a huge implosion of these clubs would take place. In the end, with good managers themselves becoming richer, why would they ever want to work for such people, that remains to be seen. For sure it seems that Chelsea so badly wanted the Ex Barcelona Manager, but being the talented guy that he is, wisely decided his future would be better served by going elsewhere. Personally I would much rather support my local team Norwich City, in the knowledge that by and large the owners will do what right for our club and its supporters. We will never be in the top four, do I care, not one bit. Success for us is to remain in the PL, around halfway. I believe Delia said a few years ago, that she would never sell to anyone who did not have the best interest of the club at heart. If she and her husband still feel the same, then we have got a lot to be thankful for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rolf Harris 33 Posted February 8, 2013 [quote user="Ken"]Foreign Owners? The over riding factors in the EPL and to some extend in the other leagues has been in influx of Super rich foreign owners buying up clubs as merely playthings. They have so much money, in many cases from the oil they constantly screw us for. Overall that, and the Sky TV money, has spoilt football to a great extend. They have no qualms about sacking perfectly decent managers, who have done a first class job or them. The way in which Chelsea, QPR & Southampton have acted this season is beyond words. They have both totally disillusioned most of their supporters, but does that for one minute bother them? Of course not. Some should never have passed the so called fit and proper person test. An ex Man City owner wanted in his own country. The goings on that eventually left Portsmouth in collapse. The list is almost endless. Even in the Championship, foreign owners buy up in the thought that it would be easy for them to buy their way into the Premiership. The new owners of Leeds don’t seem to be as wealthy as first promised. The latest goings on at Forest is also beyond belief. One day some of these people will just decide on a whim to leave, can you imagine the fire sales that will have to take place. They subsidise the clubs to such an extend that a total destruction and a huge implosion of these clubs would take place. In the end, with good managers themselves becoming richer, why would they ever want to work for such people, that remains to be seen. For sure it seems that Chelsea so badly wanted the Ex Barcelona Manager, but being the talented guy that he is, wisely decided his future would be better served by going elsewhere. Personally I would much rather support my local team Norwich City, in the knowledge that by and large the owners will do what right for our club and its supporters. We will never be in the top four, do I care, not one bit. Success for us is to remain in the PL, around halfway. I believe Delia said a few years ago, that she would never sell to anyone who did not have the best interest of the club at heart. If she and her husband still feel the same, then we have got a lot to be thankful for. [/quote]Its not the money what has ruined football its the greedy bastards who own the clubs and the massive bank loans. Sugar daddy clubs aint the problem because they''re not the ones going into admin it the ones who take massive amount of debt out when they don''t really have rich owners to pay it off or any other means. Portsmouth and Southampton when they got relegated to league one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E.L.F. 0 Posted February 8, 2013 A big no to foreign ownership.Not having a go Che, but I''m not sure about your reasoning. Since ''greedy'' and ''loans'' usually relate to money matters, can you explain further? (yes, I''m interested in what you are trying to say). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rolf Harris 33 Posted February 8, 2013 [quote user="E.L.F."]A big no to foreign ownership.Not having a go Che, but I''m not sure about your reasoning. Since ''greedy'' and ''loans'' usually relate to money matters, can you explain further? (yes, I''m interested in what you are trying to say).[/quote]Spending beyond there means. Eg Portsmouth and Southampton took out large loans they could never pay back, to progress in the premier league which enabled them to stay up for many seasons then they got relegated and the actually owners did have the money to pay off the debt which resulted in administration Southampton was lucky to get bought out while Portsmouth fate is still unknown but it seems they are going into admin again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rolf Harris 33 Posted February 8, 2013 Its not money which do bad things its bad people do bad things with money and the fans pay the price. Sky doesn''t tell you here take all this money and run your football club into the ground. The owner spend all the money and say hey will take out a loan buy some more players, "cause with all these superstars we''re bound to stay up and we can use next years prize and TV money to pay off the debt and interest", and if they go down then bye bye and if they stay up then the cycle continues.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rolf Harris 33 Posted February 8, 2013 Or this give an idiot lots and lots of money then he''ll run you into the ground, if you give a smart person money he''ll create a stable self-sufficient club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted February 8, 2013 [quote user="Ches right hand man "]Portsmouth fate is still unknown but it seems they are going into admin again.[/quote]They are still in administration. If they don''t get out of it by the end of the season they will be kicked out of the league. Football League rules state that no club is allowed to be in administration for two consecutive years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vazzza 62 Posted February 8, 2013 I take pride in supporting a club that is run properly. Hoepfully one day there will be some FFP rules that actually benefit clubs that run within their own means. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rolf Harris 33 Posted February 8, 2013 [quote user="Vazzza"]I take pride in supporting a club that is run properly. Hoepfully one day there will be some FFP rules that actually benefit clubs that run within their own means.[/quote]Shouldn''t they do it themselves rather than being told to do it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted February 8, 2013 This thread is completely onesided. Where are all the posters who wanted those foreign owners to come here and berated Delia for not letting them near her doll''s house? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,830 Posted February 8, 2013 Definitely no thanks. Delia, for all her financial help has not been an investor in the huge terms of a modern sugar daddy (mummy[:S]) figure. She has invested enough to get us to where we are - a self sufficient and well run club in the top division. Couldn''t ask any more of her from that point of view. Foreign investors - or any investors for that matter - would only risk upsetting the way the club is being run now. The club have every right to be cautious when thinking of taking any investment. The last thing most of us want is to go down the road some of the clubs have with their selling out to foreign investors. All the hard work and ups and downs we have gone through to get where we are, are too precious to be thrown away to some greedy or unaffiliated rich person. The club still has its soul, unlike a lot of others these days - and some clubs will be looking up to us as an example of how to do things properly - and others will look up to us with envy - because they have already sold out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E.L.F. 0 Posted February 9, 2013 [quote user="Ches right hand man "]Or this give an idiot lots and lots of money then he''ll run you into the ground, if you give a smart person money he''ll create a stable self-sufficient club. [/quote]Since the world is chock full of idiots, I like this one best. No to foreign ownership and yes to real gravy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andyc24_uk 79 Posted February 9, 2013 I think it''s something of a knee-jerk reaction to blame this on ''Foreign'' owners specifically - it''s more a problem of incompetent businessmen. There are no shortage of examples of British directors screwing up clubs - Peter Ridsdale and Ken Bates at Leeds being the obvious example, as well as the ongoing circus at Portman Road. There are also examples of foreign owners doing a good job with UK teams - Mohamed Al-Fayed at Fulham has stuck by them and turned them from league 2 nobodies to well-respected solid top-flight european contenders without breaking the bank, and the Italian guys in charge at Watford now seem to be doing a good job and have an excellent track record with Udinese. I have no problem whatsoever with foreigners owning the club - AS LONG AS they meet the criteria of genuinely caring about the club, running it properly and putting it first, and not making these mistakes to turn us into another Portsmouth. The fact is, Delia is eventually going to sell up - that''s inevitable, every club changes hands sooner or later and she''s been in charge for a long time now. As long as the new owner fits the bill and does the right thing by the club, I don''t care whether they''re originally from Norwich or London or Moscow or Dubai or wherever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,386 Posted February 9, 2013 [quote user="andyc24_uk"]I think it''s something of a knee-jerk reaction to blame this on ''Foreign'' owners specifically - it''s more a problem of incompetent businessmen. There are no shortage of examples of British directors screwing up clubs - Peter Ridsdale and Ken Bates at Leeds being the obvious example, as well as the ongoing circus at Portman Road. There are also examples of foreign owners doing a good job with UK teams - Mohamed Al-Fayed at Fulham has stuck by them and turned them from league 2 nobodies to well-respected solid top-flight european contenders without breaking the bank, and the Italian guys in charge at Watford now seem to be doing a good job and have an excellent track record with Udinese. I have no problem whatsoever with foreigners owning the club - AS LONG AS they meet the criteria of genuinely caring about the club, running it properly and putting it first, and not making these mistakes to turn us into another Portsmouth. The fact is, Delia is eventually going to sell up - that''s inevitable, every club changes hands sooner or later and she''s been in charge for a long time now. As long as the new owner fits the bill and does the right thing by the club, I don''t care whether they''re originally from Norwich or London or Moscow or Dubai or wherever.[/quote] Absolutely. I would add Lerner at Villa to the list and probably Berylson at Millwalll. The uber-ruthless executive chairman at Southampton makes McNally look like some cuddly camp councillor but foreign ownership there seems in general to have worked out fine, and the same could end up being true at Liverpool. And we will sooner or later have to have new ownership. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,830 Posted February 9, 2013 [quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="andyc24_uk"]I think it''s something of a knee-jerk reaction to blame this on ''Foreign'' owners specifically - it''s more a problem of incompetent businessmen. There are no shortage of examples of British directors screwing up clubs - Peter Ridsdale and Ken Bates at Leeds being the obvious example, as well as the ongoing circus at Portman Road. There are also examples of foreign owners doing a good job with UK teams - Mohamed Al-Fayed at Fulham has stuck by them and turned them from league 2 nobodies to well-respected solid top-flight european contenders without breaking the bank, and the Italian guys in charge at Watford now seem to be doing a good job and have an excellent track record with Udinese. I have no problem whatsoever with foreigners owning the club - AS LONG AS they meet the criteria of genuinely caring about the club, running it properly and putting it first, and not making these mistakes to turn us into another Portsmouth. The fact is, Delia is eventually going to sell up - that''s inevitable, every club changes hands sooner or later and she''s been in charge for a long time now. As long as the new owner fits the bill and does the right thing by the club, I don''t care whether they''re originally from Norwich or London or Moscow or Dubai or wherever.[/quote] Absolutely. I would add Lerner at Villa to the list and probably Berylson at Millwalll. The uber-ruthless executive chairman at Southampton makes McNally look like some cuddly camp councillor but foreign ownership there seems in general to have worked out fine, and the same could end up being true at Liverpool. And we will sooner or later have to have new ownership.[/quote]The caring about the club is the main issue for me. We have been incredibly lucky to have had Delia at the club - with all the ups and downs that inevitably occur - but to find someone of similar ilk will be very difficult. However, while things are going well, why would she think of leaving? She''s not that old - early seventies is not that old these days. If the club takes a downward turn again I could understand why she might think - time to let another person take over - but currently the club is in great shape and moving forwards - on course and financially stable. Why rock the boat? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,386 Posted February 9, 2013 [quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="andyc24_uk"]I think it''s something of a knee-jerk reaction to blame this on ''Foreign'' owners specifically - it''s more a problem of incompetent businessmen. There are no shortage of examples of British directors screwing up clubs - Peter Ridsdale and Ken Bates at Leeds being the obvious example, as well as the ongoing circus at Portman Road. There are also examples of foreign owners doing a good job with UK teams - Mohamed Al-Fayed at Fulham has stuck by them and turned them from league 2 nobodies to well-respected solid top-flight european contenders without breaking the bank, and the Italian guys in charge at Watford now seem to be doing a good job and have an excellent track record with Udinese. I have no problem whatsoever with foreigners owning the club - AS LONG AS they meet the criteria of genuinely caring about the club, running it properly and putting it first, and not making these mistakes to turn us into another Portsmouth. The fact is, Delia is eventually going to sell up - that''s inevitable, every club changes hands sooner or later and she''s been in charge for a long time now. As long as the new owner fits the bill and does the right thing by the club, I don''t care whether they''re originally from Norwich or London or Moscow or Dubai or wherever.[/quote] Absolutely. I would add Lerner at Villa to the list and probably Berylson at Millwalll. The uber-ruthless executive chairman at Southampton makes McNally look like some cuddly camp councillor but foreign ownership there seems in general to have worked out fine, and the same could end up being true at Liverpool. And we will sooner or later have to have new ownership.[/quote]The caring about the club is the main issue for me. We have been incredibly lucky to have had Delia at the club - with all the ups and downs that inevitably occur - but to find someone of similar ilk will be very difficult. However, while things are going well, why would she think of leaving? She''s not that old - early seventies is not that old these days. If the club takes a downward turn again I could understand why she might think - time to let another person take over - but currently the club is in great shape and moving forwards - on course and financially stable. Why rock the boat? [/quote] No-one has mentioned rocking the boat. But it is a fact that eventually we will have new owners, and the kind of owner we might want is a perfectly sensible topic for discussion. Why have you dreamt up an element of conflict that simply wasn''t in the thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
First Wizard 0 Posted February 9, 2013 Delia is skint, so what use is she? All she''s doing is stopping the real guys with serious money coming in by hiding behind her trusted ally Mr Fit and Proper. Until she retires, moves on or keels over, Prudence with Ambition will always have a nice warm, cozy home at little old Norwich. I use to like her but she''s holding the club back now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted February 9, 2013 If football remains as it is now we will fall behind without a change of ownership. Bowkett and McNally recognised this when they came on board. In fact I believe they said that in order for us to become an established premier league team we would have to have outside investment. However there is a wind of change. We have survived one premier season and maybe two without this investment. If there truly is going to be a change towards club''s being self sufficient then the way our club is run could be a blue print for that. I have no doubt that what some take for granted is actually our club massively over achieving to what we should expect from our budget. Much of the criticism from those who expect better is ill-founded. Our current position says that McNally, Lambert and now Hughton have performed miracles. Now is this because they are brilliant or has the wind of change already begun to bite? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,830 Posted February 9, 2013 [quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="andyc24_uk"]I think it''s something of a knee-jerk reaction to blame this on ''Foreign'' owners specifically - it''s more a problem of incompetent businessmen. There are no shortage of examples of British directors screwing up clubs - Peter Ridsdale and Ken Bates at Leeds being the obvious example, as well as the ongoing circus at Portman Road. There are also examples of foreign owners doing a good job with UK teams - Mohamed Al-Fayed at Fulham has stuck by them and turned them from league 2 nobodies to well-respected solid top-flight european contenders without breaking the bank, and the Italian guys in charge at Watford now seem to be doing a good job and have an excellent track record with Udinese. I have no problem whatsoever with foreigners owning the club - AS LONG AS they meet the criteria of genuinely caring about the club, running it properly and putting it first, and not making these mistakes to turn us into another Portsmouth. The fact is, Delia is eventually going to sell up - that''s inevitable, every club changes hands sooner or later and she''s been in charge for a long time now. As long as the new owner fits the bill and does the right thing by the club, I don''t care whether they''re originally from Norwich or London or Moscow or Dubai or wherever.[/quote] Absolutely. I would add Lerner at Villa to the list and probably Berylson at Millwalll. The uber-ruthless executive chairman at Southampton makes McNally look like some cuddly camp councillor but foreign ownership there seems in general to have worked out fine, and the same could end up being true at Liverpool. And we will sooner or later have to have new ownership.[/quote]The caring about the club is the main issue for me. We have been incredibly lucky to have had Delia at the club - with all the ups and downs that inevitably occur - but to find someone of similar ilk will be very difficult. However, while things are going well, why would she think of leaving? She''s not that old - early seventies is not that old these days. If the club takes a downward turn again I could understand why she might think - time to let another person take over - but currently the club is in great shape and moving forwards - on course and financially stable. Why rock the boat? [/quote] No-one has mentioned rocking the boat. But it is a fact that eventually we will have new owners, and the kind of owner we might want is a perfectly sensible topic for discussion. Why have you dreamt up an element of conflict that simply wasn''t in the thread?[/quote]Its you who are reading into my comments something that isn''t there. The comment why rock the boat simply means to me - why do we need to change now and risk upsetting things while things are going well. No conflict intended. Sorry, you can''t get me on that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,386 Posted February 9, 2013 [quote user="nutty nigel"]If football remains as it is now we will fall behind without a change of ownership. Bowkett and McNally recognised this when they came on board. In fact I believe they said that in order for us to become an established premier league team we would have to have outside investment. However there is a wind of change. We have survived one premier season and maybe two without this investment. If there truly is going to be a change towards club''s being self sufficient then the way our club is run could be a blue print for that. I have no doubt that what some take for granted is actually our club massively over achieving to what we should expect from our budget. Much of the criticism from those who expect better is ill-founded. Our current position says that McNally, Lambert and now Hughton have performed miracles. Now is this because they are brilliant or has the wind of change already begun to bite? [/quote] nutty, they may have said that, but the quote I remember is that without a rich investor we would need a 35,000-seat stadium to be self-sufficient in the PL, which is not the same thing. But that was just over two years, and, as we know, stadium expansion has been kicked into the long grass.You are right that we have been self-sufficient anyway, but whether there is a wind of change towards clubs following our (enforced) model break-even model I am not sure. Certainly the Premier League proposals are not a serious step towards that, when rich owners can make good losses of ÂŁ35m a season.In the Championship, where , as I understand it, the fair play rules are closer to the Uefa idea of breaking even, possibly the wind is blowing a little stronger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rolf Harris 33 Posted February 9, 2013 [quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]If football remains as it is now we will fall behind without a change of ownership. Bowkett and McNally recognised this when they came on board. In fact I believe they said that in order for us to become an established premier league team we would have to have outside investment. However there is a wind of change. We have survived one premier season and maybe two without this investment. If there truly is going to be a change towards club''s being self sufficient then the way our club is run could be a blue print for that. I have no doubt that what some take for granted is actually our club massively over achieving to what we should expect from our budget. Much of the criticism from those who expect better is ill-founded. Our current position says that McNally, Lambert and now Hughton have performed miracles. Now is this because they are brilliant or has the wind of change already begun to bite? [/quote] nutty, they may have said that, but the quote I remember is that without a rich investor we would need a 35,000-seat stadium to be self-sufficient in the PL, which is not the same thing. But that was just over two years, and, as we know, stadium expansion has been kicked into the long grass.You are right that we have been self-sufficient anyway, but whether there is a wind of change towards clubs following our (enforced) model break-even model I am not sure. Certainly the Premier League proposals are not a serious step towards that, when rich owners can make good losses of ÂŁ35m a season.In the Championship, where , as I understand it, the fair play rules are closer to the Uefa idea of breaking even, possibly the wind is blowing a little stronger.[/quote]Its to stop championship clubs trying to buy there way to the premier, if they were allowed to do this it could result in getting there or years of high expenses resulting in the high debt and the destruction of the club. The policy however allows the yoyo clubs a financial advantage. I think we should let our football club pass onto another fan when the time comes. We''re not attractive for a foreign owner but an investment for an investee may be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,332 Posted February 9, 2013 [quote user="Ken"]Foreign Owners? The over riding factors in the EPL and to some extend in the other leagues has been in influx of Super rich foreign owners buying up clubs as merely playthings. They have so much money, in many cases from the oil they constantly screw us for. Overall that, and the Sky TV money, has spoilt football to a great extend. They have no qualms about sacking perfectly decent managers, who have done a first class job or them. The way in which Chelsea, QPR & Southampton have acted this season is beyond words. They have both totally disillusioned most of their supporters, but does that for one minute bother them? Of course not. Some should never have passed the so called fit and proper person test. An ex Man City owner wanted in his own country. The goings on that eventually left Portsmouth in collapse. The list is almost endless. Even in the Championship, foreign owners buy up in the thought that it would be easy for them to buy their way into the Premiership. The new owners of Leeds don’t seem to be as wealthy as first promised. The latest goings on at Forest is also beyond belief. One day some of these people will just decide on a whim to leave, can you imagine the fire sales that will have to take place. They subsidise the clubs to such an extend that a total destruction and a huge implosion of these clubs would take place.  In the end, with good managers themselves becoming richer, why would they ever want to work for such people, that remains to be seen. For sure it seems that Chelsea so badly wanted the Ex Barcelona Manager, but being the talented guy that he is, wisely decided his future would be better served by going elsewhere. Personally I would much rather support my local team Norwich City, in the knowledge that by and large the owners will do what right for our club and its supporters. We will never be in the top four, do I care, not one bit. Success for us is to remain in the PL, around halfway.  I believe Delia said a few years ago, that she would never sell to anyone who did not have the best interest of the club at heart. If she and her husband still feel the same, then we have got a lot to be thankful for.   [/quote]Ken! This is your ninth post in over seven years... What has caused this sudden rush of blood to the head?Please reply before September, thank you in advance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites