From a man who's football knowledge we trust..

[STAN 29]

Thursday, July 28, 2011

The Canaries suffered their first defeat of pre-season when they went down 1-0 at Crystal Palace on Tuesday night.

“I said it the other day about the games in Germany that the score was irrelevant. What really matters is that first game against Wigan. As long as we’re ready for the first game. The main priority is to get them up to speed with their fitness levels.”

“I’ve been in the game long enough to know that come the first game of the season it will be totally different to what you see in every friendly game. "

“The main priority for me is lads getting game time. We changed virtually the whole team tonight. Come that Wigan game I’ll pick the strongest team I can to try to win the game.”

......................................

[Monty13 2,252]

Spot on. People seem to have very short memories. The only teams we were banging in goals against in pre season last year were Gorleston and Wroxham.

Our results this year are very similar:

We beat Coventry 3-0 (well we have beaten Peterborough 2-0), We drew 0-0 with southend and lost to Palace 1-0 (sounds familiar with the MK and Hull results) and we drew 1-1 with Zaragoza (like we drew 1-1 with Ajax).

Lets hope we beat Borussia at home in our final friendly like we beat Parma to give some cheer to the doubters....

[Thumbelina 0]

Good post!

[Lets be aving you! 0]

And in the previous preseason we drew 0-0 at Stevenage and mustered barely a shot on goal (I had the misfortune of attending).

 

From memory, we also played pretty terribly away at Dagenham & Redbridge that preseason.

[Thumbelina 0]

Alternatively there are many times when ourselves and other teams have had great pre seasons, only for it to all unfold when the real action starts.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Yes good post, I think that will ease some people''s anxiousness...well at least I feel better...but Wiz is lurking...

[mrdi 373]

I seem to remember beating Wigan 3-2 at FCR in the last friendly before our League One campaign. Things looked good. Then Colchester came to town.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Indeed I used to trust his judgement.

Right up to his descision to go to Villa !

We need another 3 players to have a better squad than last year.

1 Full back

1 Centre half

1 Striker

results in friendly mean nothing but style of play does.

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

ok, I understand what everyone is saying, but can I just ask, if we cannot take any information regarding how up to speed or how well players are performing from any preseason friendly because they are no indication of how well we will  play when it does matter, why the hell are we bothering to play any?

So far I have seen posts say we cannot take information regarding

match sharpness/fitness - ok so I wont worry that some players look wayyy behind others, when should they be match ready btw, first game of the season?

performance - ok so I wont worry if some players havnt performed so far, I guess they are not really trying because its only a friendly then, still, would be helpful for CH if they did try their hardest so he can pick the team for our first proper match

Results - ok so I wont worry that we cannot break down a championship defence because its all about performance and match sharpness.. oh hang on..

 

Dont misunderstand me, im not actually advocating mass panic here but it seems that discussion at the moment is very one sided. How many people posted about Vaughan when linked to a loan away "he''s been awesome pre-season, scoring loads, will be top striker if stays fit" and then the same people go bananas when someone dares to say "X isnt playing well".

 

 

[Redders Right Foot 22]

from my understanding teams use friendlies as a workout. if some players don''t look quite fit enough yet, the friendlies have shown that and now they can work on it.

Also, have we truly played poorly? we haven''t scored much in the last few games, but haven''t conceded either, and have taken control of most of the recent friendlies.

[Beauseant 0]

The main reason that people say you can''t read to much into friendlies is that they are played in a completely different way to competitive matches, particularly the early ones. Tackles are avoided when possible and everyone holds back. They are vital because you can train as much as you want , but match fitness is different to core stamina, and can only be achieved by playing games.Holt is a classic example of someone who only gets their sharpness in this. Look back over his time here and you''ll see that he tends to start the season slowly, but sharpens up as he gets more game time.

Another distorting factor is the number of substitutions, which disrupt the flow of games, but Hughton will be pleased by the way that we''ve played, albeit disappointed by the chances missed.

[nutty nigel 7,645]

That''s the thing Beaus. There''s a difference between match fitness and match sharpness. The sharpness is speed of reaction, both mentally and physically, which is only honed in competitive matches.

 

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Ahhh, ok I got it, we are judging on how match sharp the players are but not worrying if they are not match sharp yet, just so long as they are before the season.

 

oh, so why will Hughton be pleased by the way we have played or concerned about missed chances if performance doesnt matter at the moment? Is he happy that the defence is match sharp eairler than our attackers?

 

sorry, I know what you are saying and I am sensible enough to take pre-season with a hugh pince of salt but wanted to make the point, especially around the Vaughan thing you cant pick and choose when performances matter or not depending on whether its a good thing or bad.

 

 

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

The main reason that people say you can''t read to much into friendlies is that they are played in a completely different way to competitive matches, particularly the early ones. Tackles are avoided when possible and everyone holds back. They are vital because you can train as much as you want , but match fitness is different to core stamina, and can only be achieved by playing games.Holt is a classic example of someone who only gets their sharpness in this. Look back over his time here and you''ll see that he tends to start the season slowly, but sharpens up as he gets more game time.

Another distorting factor is the number of substitutions, which disrupt the flow of games, but Hughton will be pleased by the way that we''ve played, albeit disappointed by the chances missed.

[/quote]

 

I agree, Beau, but presumably much of that applies to the opposition as well, although Hull, I know, are a week ahead of us, and I think most of the teams we''ve played were nearer than us to starting competitive football.

Another factor is that I suspect new managers have to use pre-season games as much as anything to work out the strengths and weaknesses of their squad, and the aptitude or otherwise of individuals to fit into various tactical formations. I assume watching DVDs and even training can tell you only so much. I would be surprised, as a general rule, if a new manager''s thoughts on his squad didn''t change quite substantially during pre-season. Some players'' stock rising; that of some other falling.

[GenerationA47 762]

I agree individual performances in friendlies are often used as a guide to the fitness and direction of travel of specific players. But people dwell way too much on the results, which aren''t always even a reflection of team performance in real games, let alone of the particular outcome/s for a given friendly that the manager had in mind for that game (others have given examples), which will rarely include orchestrating a whole-team effort to get a win (unlike most competitive matches).

Having said that, I''m still in the let''s get another striker camp which in my interpretation has gained further credence from CH''s latest comments on the subject, following all but one friendly. That would suggest to me that this was one of his questions/outcomes taken from the full range of friendlies. But again, not in my view from an individual result or whole-team performance.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Beauseant"]

The main reason that people say you can''t read to much into friendlies is that they are played in a completely different way to competitive matches, particularly the early ones. Tackles are avoided when possible and everyone holds back. They are vital because you can train as much as you want , but match fitness is different to core stamina, and can only be achieved by playing games.Holt is a classic example of someone who only gets their sharpness in this. Look back over his time here and you''ll see that he tends to start the season slowly, but sharpens up as he gets more game time.

Another distorting factor is the number of substitutions, which disrupt the flow of games, but Hughton will be pleased by the way that we''ve played, albeit disappointed by the chances missed.

[/quote]

 

I agree, Beau, but presumably much of that applies to the opposition as well, although Hull, I know, are a week ahead of us, and I think most of the teams we''ve played were nearer than us to starting competitive football.

Another factor is that I suspect new managers have to use pre-season games as much as anything to work out the strengths and weaknesses of their squad, and the aptitude or otherwise of individuals to fit into various tactical formations. I assume watching DVDs and even training can tell you only so much. I would be surprised, as a general rule, if a new manager''s thoughts on his squad didn''t change quite substantially during pre-season. Some players'' stock rising; that of some other falling.

[/quote]

Absolutely PC. It''s important to appreciate that Hughton has had to get to know the whole squad, not just the new players, whereas Lambert wouldn''t have had the same problem. I suspect that''s another reason why we have kept some powder dry (at least I assume we have!) in the transfer market.

Picking up on SOG''s point, I didn''t say that performances didn''t matter (although results don''t) but rather that they can''t and won''t be seen as a categorical judgement of a player''s likely response in the full heat of battle. In other words, you can judge technique, but not necesssarily stomach for the fray.

[Evesham Canary 0]

I just look at season 88-89 when we got absolutely battered by Ipswich, Hull & Hereford in pre-season games and then promptly won the opening 4 league games.

All that matters are results from the 18th Aug onwards.