If its not broke, don't fix it!

[can u sit down please 0]

Atrocious. He''s trying to change too much completely ignoring the foundations left. He doesn''t need to tinker much but he''s changing the approach/philosophy.

Too angry to write anything else!!

[shefcanary 2,444]

Blimey CUSDP - as "our" man on the inside, for you to say this, things must be bad.

[First Wizard 0]

I''m totally with the OP on this.

[can u sit down please 0]

It was painful to watch.

We attack teams and play without fear. None of that today.

[Baldyboy 0]

different managers have different ideas, ffs!!!!

[morty 0]

But it did get broken, we lost our manager.

[can u sit down please 0]

The squad is 95% the same. They excelled playing a certain way. Why have a complete change?

Just come in and keep it ticking over, like Laudrup will probably do.

Big changes weren''t needed.

[Old Shuck 188]

You would hope that a new Manager would come in, note and comment that not an awful lot needed changing around, that the system/formation was working well and it was a case of tinkering here and there and building on what we had.

 

If CH has come in with the intention or instruction of dismantling the last three successful years and starting again, new system and philosophy and new players bought in with the intention of implementing it then thats a cause for concern.

 

We had a way of playing last season. It worked for us. The players were familiar and comfortable with it, it meant we caused lots of chances and scored goals. Isn''t it easier to get 3,4,5, whatever players in and teach them the system that works, or has been working, rather than teach 25 odd players a new one-with some of them, no doubt thinking, "but last season worked for me, for the team, why change it?"

 

Is the diamond now a totally busted flush? Have we dispensed with it altogther, is it history? If it is-well, sorry, but why? I can''t accept the "other teams have worked us out" notion-OK, they might know how you play but if you play it well, its effective and it works, it doesn''t matter that they know its how you play, if you perform, it''ll still be effective regardless. You could say RVP is "sussed out" -before a game with Man Utd, yep, no worries-"RVP breaks into the penalty area, usually from wide positions, he''s fast and turns quickly, keep close to him" -there, thats RVP "worked out".Maybe, but doesn''t stop him being quality and being effective no matter how well you know he is going to play.

 

We could have put an effective side out there today based on that diamond formation-would it had done a better job than todays shambles? Hell yes. Ruddy  Martin-Bennett-Ward-Tierney  Johnson  Pilkington-Bennett  Hoolahan  Holt-Jackson. And all last seasons players. Maybe Fox for Johnson if he was fit. The players would have known how to play it, been comfortable in their roles and we would have had a lot more attacking threat. But no, it seems that was Lambert and Lambert has gone and no matter how well it did for you last season and how effectively you played it and felt comfortable with it, its out the window now boys, its a packed midfield and, rather than perpetuating a system which had its moments last time around, we''re going to go with one that patently and often didn''t work-pack the midfield and stick Holt in attack on its own. Hughton famously took the videos on holiday with him, he saw what worked and seemingly threw it away and would have seen what didn''t and has embraced it.

 

Yes of course the diamond formation had its flaws-but it and the 4-4-2 variation of it saw us finish in 12th place last season. So why change everything around-the phrase over the Summer was "evolution not revolution", well sorry, it seems as if it is anything but that.Pre-season and today has seen a change in formation and a change in the way we play and we got what we deserved today for trying to be clever and doing it another way when there seemed little need or point in doing so-indeed, the only point seems to be one of focusing more on change for the sake of erasing the efforts of the previous management rather than for it improving the team.

 

If he sets out a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 at home to QPR on Saturday I will be absolutely staggered. Remember Newcastle at home? 4-4-2, wingers, crosses, two front men-pace and power, we blew them away and so what if we let in 2 at home, we scored 4. What are we going to do next week, play for a 0-0 and be happy we kept our shape and a clean sheet? Oh yeah, great, woo-hoo.

 

I agree with the OP as well. I''m not advocating the removal of the Manager-but if we lose, I want to see us lose by having a go and focus on giving the opposition a game not inviting them to demonstrate theirs to us-which we did today, and how...

 

 

 

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]The squad is 95% the same. They excelled playing a certain way. Why have a complete change?

Just come in and keep it ticking over, like Laudrup will probably do.

Big changes weren''t needed.[/quote]We played a single striker away from home, its hardly a total tactical makeover.We showed the same defensive frailties we had last season though, throw in early season lack of fitness and a hot day and it could just be an odd off day at the office.Obviously if we are as crap next week then serious questions will have to be asked.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]It was painful to watch.

We attack teams and play without fear. None of that today.[/quote]

After all, Norwich have never played a defensive game in their entire 110 year history...

[Yellow Shirt 17]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="can u sit down please"]The squad is 95% the same. They excelled playing a certain way. Why have a complete change?

Just come in and keep it ticking over, like Laudrup will probably do.

Big changes weren''t needed.[/quote]We played a single striker away from home, its hardly a total tactical makeover.We showed the same defensive frailties we had last season though, throw in early season lack of fitness and a hot day and it could just be an odd off day at the office.Obviously if we are as crap next week then serious questions will have to be asked.[/quote]Have you seen the game? It was not the formation or the same defensive mistakes it was a clueless team who seemed to have been asked to play a completely different style than they are cut out for and they couldn''t do it.It wasn''t a couple of players off the pace- today was players passing to spaces where nobody was, running into each other, panicking and getting out of position and generally looking confused.Hughton has been in charge for months, he decided he needed to keep Holt. Why? To play him on his own up front? Holt threw his toys out of the pram and handed in a transfer request and yet was still captain today.He decided not to change much of the squad, fair enough- it needed adding to not replacing, unless you are going to play a different way.I am not worried because a team put 5 past us. I am worried because everyone knows that we are a squad that was over reaching its individual abilities through confidence and playing to strengths- apart from Hughton.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Yellow Shirt"][quote user="morty"][quote user="can u sit down please"]The squad is 95% the same. They excelled playing a certain way. Why have a complete change?

Just come in and keep it ticking over, like Laudrup will probably do.

Big changes weren''t needed.[/quote]We played a single striker away from home, its hardly a total tactical makeover.We showed the same defensive frailties we had last season though, throw in early season lack of fitness and a hot day and it could just be an odd off day at the office.Obviously if we are as crap next week then serious questions will have to be asked.[/quote]Have you seen the game? It was not the formation or the same defensive mistakes it was a clueless team who seemed to have been asked to play a completely different style than they are cut out for and they couldn''t do it.It wasn''t a couple of players off the pace- today was players passing to spaces where nobody was, running into each other, panicking and getting out of position and generally looking confused.Hughton has been in charge for months, he decided he needed to keep Holt. Why? To play him on his own up front? Holt threw his toys out of the pram and handed in a transfer request and yet was still captain today.He decided not to change much of the squad, fair enough- it needed adding to not replacing, unless you are going to play a different way.I am not worried because a team put 5 past us. I am worried because everyone knows that we are a squad that was over reaching its individual abilities through confidence and playing to strengths- apart from Hughton.[/quote]Yes, I saw the game on a stream, couldn''t make it to the game today.I''m sorry, I have no answers for you. Neither you nor I know why we were so clueless.As I have said, I will give him time to fix this before I reach for the panic button.

[Baldyboy 0]

what big changes have been made? Only 2 new players played today, the formation was the change and it was used regularly last season too!!!

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]

You would hope that a new Manager would come in, note and comment that not an awful lot needed changing around, that the system/formation was working well and it was a case of tinkering here and there and building on what we had.

 

If CH has come in with the intention or instruction of dismantling the last three successful years and starting again, new system and philosophy and new players bought in with the intention of implementing it then thats a cause for concern.

 

We had a way of playing last season. It worked for us. The players were familiar and comfortable with it, it meant we caused lots of chances and scored goals. Isn''t it easier to get 3,4,5, whatever players in and teach them the system that works, or has been working, rather than teach 25 odd players a new one-with some of them, no doubt thinking, "but last season worked for me, for the team, why change it?"

 

Is the diamond now a totally busted flush? Have we dispensed with it altogther, is it history? If it is-well, sorry, but why? I can''t accept the "other teams have worked us out" notion-OK, they might know how you play but if you play it well, its effective and it works, it doesn''t matter that they know its how you play, if you perform, it''ll still be effective regardless. You could say RVP is "sussed out" -before a game with Man Utd, yep, no worries-"RVP breaks into the penalty area, usually from wide positions, he''s fast and turns quickly, keep close to him" -there, thats RVP "worked out".Maybe, but doesn''t stop him being quality and being effective no matter how well you know he is going to play.

 

We could have put an effective side out there today based on that diamond formation-would it had done a better job than todays shambles? Hell yes. Ruddy  Martin-Bennett-Ward-Tierney  Johnson  Pilkington-Bennett  Hoolahan  Holt-Jackson. And all last seasons players. Maybe Fox for Johnson if he was fit. The players would have known how to play it, been comfortable in their roles and we would have had a lot more attacking threat. But no, it seems that was Lambert and Lambert has gone and no matter how well it did for you last season and how effectively you played it and felt comfortable with it, its out the window now boys, its a packed midfield and, rather than perpetuating a system which had its moments last time around, we''re going to go with one that patently and often didn''t work-pack the midfield and stick Holt in attack on its own. Hughton famously took the videos on holiday with him, he saw what worked and seemingly threw it away and would have seen what didn''t and has embraced it.

 

Yes of course the diamond formation had its flaws-but it and the 4-4-2 variation of it saw us finish in 12th place last season. So why change everything around-the phrase over the Summer was "evolution not revolution", well sorry, it seems as if it is anything but that.Pre-season and today has seen a change in formation and a change in the way we play and we got what we deserved today for trying to be clever and doing it another way when there seemed little need or point in doing so-indeed, the only point seems to be one of focusing more on change for the sake of erasing the efforts of the previous management rather than for it improving the team.

 

If he sets out a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 at home to QPR on Saturday I will be absolutely staggered. Remember Newcastle at home? 4-4-2, wingers, crosses, two front men-pace and power, we blew them away and so what if we let in 2 at home, we scored 4. What are we going to do next week, play for a 0-0 and be happy we kept our shape and a clean sheet? Oh yeah, great, woo-hoo.

 

I agree with the OP as well. I''m not advocating the removal of the Manager-but if we lose, I want to see us lose by having a go and focus on giving the opposition a game not inviting them to demonstrate theirs to us-which we did today, and how...

 

 

 

 

[/quote]I can''t fault any of that Shuck. It looks like the whole ethos has been changed and the players don''t look comfortable with the way they are playing.Canary supporters expect a certain way of playing and they won''t be happy with the safety first approach. Especially when like today it never looked like working.Lambert amazed and annoyed us in equal measure us with his ever changing tactics and formations but he seemed to not only play different formations but adapt them within a game to changing circumstances. The players built there confidence and belief because those tactics were seen to work and us a supporters always felt we would get something from a game even after going behind.  Today the players seemed to be uncomfortable in a straightjacket and once they were behind they lost all belief.If we play like a team that is more concerned with just "staying in the game" then we will be lost from the start. I never felt we were in any danger of relegation last season because the players believed in the system. I already get the feeling that they are uncomfortable with the more conservative approach of the present management team. CH needs to show us quickly that he has more than just a plan A.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="baldyboy"]what big changes have been made? Only 2 new players played today, the formation was the change and it was used regularly last season too!!![/quote]

That''s not completely true, under Lambert this formation would have been much more fluid, under Hughton it was more rigid. Not always a bad thing, but it comes at the expense of some attacking thrust.

Tierney made a mistake, allowing them to score a goal, we chased and they kept the ball well, by the time they scored the third goal our players had expended so much energy chasing the ball they couldn''t do much else, Turner''s tackle at the end was the act of a very tired player.

[Canary02 IV 0]

The formation is very different to what we played last season.

4-4-1-1 last season with, for arguments sake, Hoolahan off Holt, operated with a far more mobile and flexible midfield supporting them. And if it became clear that we were being picked off by the opposition for playing too high a line, we were adaptable enough to drop that line back ad for the midfield to adjust as well. Today our tactics were totally unadaptable and unfit for purpose.

[can u sit down please 0]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]

You would hope that a new Manager would come in, note and comment that not an awful lot needed changing around, that the system/formation was working well and it was a case of tinkering here and there and building on what we had.

 

If CH has come in with the intention or instruction of dismantling the last three successful years and starting again, new system and philosophy and new players bought in with the intention of implementing it then thats a cause for concern.

 

We had a way of playing last season. It worked for us. The players were familiar and comfortable with it, it meant we caused lots of chances and scored goals. Isn''t it easier to get 3,4,5, whatever players in and teach them the system that works, or has been working, rather than teach 25 odd players a new one-with some of them, no doubt thinking, "but last season worked for me, for the team, why change it?"

 

Is the diamond now a totally busted flush? Have we dispensed with it altogther, is it history? If it is-well, sorry, but why? I can''t accept the "other teams have worked us out" notion-OK, they might know how you play but if you play it well, its effective and it works, it doesn''t matter that they know its how you play, if you perform, it''ll still be effective regardless. You could say RVP is "sussed out" -before a game with Man Utd, yep, no worries-"RVP breaks into the penalty area, usually from wide positions, he''s fast and turns quickly, keep close to him" -there, thats RVP "worked out".Maybe, but doesn''t stop him being quality and being effective no matter how well you know he is going to play.

 

We could have put an effective side out there today based on that diamond formation-would it had done a better job than todays shambles? Hell yes. Ruddy  Martin-Bennett-Ward-Tierney  Johnson  Pilkington-Bennett  Hoolahan  Holt-Jackson. And all last seasons players. Maybe Fox for Johnson if he was fit. The players would have known how to play it, been comfortable in their roles and we would have had a lot more attacking threat. But no, it seems that was Lambert and Lambert has gone and no matter how well it did for you last season and how effectively you played it and felt comfortable with it, its out the window now boys, its a packed midfield and, rather than perpetuating a system which had its moments last time around, we''re going to go with one that patently and often didn''t work-pack the midfield and stick Holt in attack on its own. Hughton famously took the videos on holiday with him, he saw what worked and seemingly threw it away and would have seen what didn''t and has embraced it.

 

Yes of course the diamond formation had its flaws-but it and the 4-4-2 variation of it saw us finish in 12th place last season. So why change everything around-the phrase over the Summer was "evolution not revolution", well sorry, it seems as if it is anything but that.Pre-season and today has seen a change in formation and a change in the way we play and we got what we deserved today for trying to be clever and doing it another way when there seemed little need or point in doing so-indeed, the only point seems to be one of focusing more on change for the sake of erasing the efforts of the previous management rather than for it improving the team.

 

If he sets out a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 at home to QPR on Saturday I will be absolutely staggered. Remember Newcastle at home? 4-4-2, wingers, crosses, two front men-pace and power, we blew them away and so what if we let in 2 at home, we scored 4. What are we going to do next week, play for a 0-0 and be happy we kept our shape and a clean sheet? Oh yeah, great, woo-hoo.

 

I agree with the OP as well. I''m not advocating the removal of the Manager-but if we lose, I want to see us lose by having a go and focus on giving the opposition a game not inviting them to demonstrate theirs to us-which we did today, and how...

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

Absolutely fantastic post and reaffirms my belief that you are the best poster on this board by a mile. Well put.

 

Evolution not revolution. Love it.

[Canary Poirot 1]

[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="Old Shuck"]

You would hope that a new Manager would come in, note and comment that not an awful lot needed changing around, that the system/formation was working well and it was a case of tinkering here and there and building on what we had.

 

If CH has come in with the intention or instruction of dismantling the last three successful years and starting again, new system and philosophy and new players bought in with the intention of implementing it then thats a cause for concern.

 

We had a way of playing last season. It worked for us. The players were familiar and comfortable with it, it meant we caused lots of chances and scored goals. Isn''t it easier to get 3,4,5, whatever players in and teach them the system that works, or has been working, rather than teach 25 odd players a new one-with some of them, no doubt thinking, "but last season worked for me, for the team, why change it?"

 

Is the diamond now a totally busted flush? Have we dispensed with it altogther, is it history? If it is-well, sorry, but why? I can''t accept the "other teams have worked us out" notion-OK, they might know how you play but if you play it well, its effective and it works, it doesn''t matter that they know its how you play, if you perform, it''ll still be effective regardless. You could say RVP is "sussed out" -before a game with Man Utd, yep, no worries-"RVP breaks into the penalty area, usually from wide positions, he''s fast and turns quickly, keep close to him" -there, thats RVP "worked out".Maybe, but doesn''t stop him being quality and being effective no matter how well you know he is going to play.

 

We could have put an effective side out there today based on that diamond formation-would it had done a better job than todays shambles? Hell yes. Ruddy  Martin-Bennett-Ward-Tierney  Johnson  Pilkington-Bennett  Hoolahan  Holt-Jackson. And all last seasons players. Maybe Fox for Johnson if he was fit. The players would have known how to play it, been comfortable in their roles and we would have had a lot more attacking threat. But no, it seems that was Lambert and Lambert has gone and no matter how well it did for you last season and how effectively you played it and felt comfortable with it, its out the window now boys, its a packed midfield and, rather than perpetuating a system which had its moments last time around, we''re going to go with one that patently and often didn''t work-pack the midfield and stick Holt in attack on its own. Hughton famously took the videos on holiday with him, he saw what worked and seemingly threw it away and would have seen what didn''t and has embraced it.

 

Yes of course the diamond formation had its flaws-but it and the 4-4-2 variation of it saw us finish in 12th place last season. So why change everything around-the phrase over the Summer was "evolution not revolution", well sorry, it seems as if it is anything but that.Pre-season and today has seen a change in formation and a change in the way we play and we got what we deserved today for trying to be clever and doing it another way when there seemed little need or point in doing so-indeed, the only point seems to be one of focusing more on change for the sake of erasing the efforts of the previous management rather than for it improving the team.

 

If he sets out a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 at home to QPR on Saturday I will be absolutely staggered. Remember Newcastle at home? 4-4-2, wingers, crosses, two front men-pace and power, we blew them away and so what if we let in 2 at home, we scored 4. What are we going to do next week, play for a 0-0 and be happy we kept our shape and a clean sheet? Oh yeah, great, woo-hoo.

 

I agree with the OP as well. I''m not advocating the removal of the Manager-but if we lose, I want to see us lose by having a go and focus on giving the opposition a game not inviting them to demonstrate theirs to us-which we did today, and how...

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

Absolutely fantastic post and reaffirms my belief that you are the best poster on this board by a mile. Well put.

 

Evolution not revolution. Love it.

[/quote]

 

Absolutely top class post Old Shuck.

 

You have articulated perfectly everything I have been trying to say all evening. I hope the likes of Monty are able to comprehend what you say so elequently.

[Gingerpele 0]

Well then it must be McNallys fault? He''s hired the wrong man.

[Bws Cat 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Well then it must be McNallys fault? He''s hired the wrong man.[/quote]

Never thought I would see GP join the dark side!

[Gingerpele 0]

I haven''t, just making a point (Though someone else may have said it, I did only read the OP) . All will be fine.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

I think we need a striker desperately.

Hughton also needs to look at why we were successful last season.

He can''t have been serious about taking all of those DVD''s on holiday with him because it appears he hasn''t learn much from them or from his work in pre-season, ignoring that the formation he played today didn''t work in previous two games.

Whether we have the right man or not - time will tell. He seemed the right man, but it''s only natural for us to doubt after a day like today.

Speaking for myself, I think if we make no further signings we are going to struggle majorly and probably get relegated. With the addition of a striker and a proper centre half, we should be ok - just.

[can u sit down please 0]

I am extremely bored and was looking through my old posts. this one made me laugh. Im never going to Fulham again haha

[can u sit down please 0]

Even now, Shucks post still has some fantastic points

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

All the things being said then are still being said now.

Very prophetic.

[Warren Hill 0]

But they haven''t been said consistently.

And any side with Bennett and Tierney making up half the back four was clearly on a hiding to nothing.

Or should we still be playing them?

[hogesar 9,720]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]But they haven''t been said consistently.

And any side with Bennett and Tierney making up half the back four was clearly on a hiding to nothing.

Or should we still be playing them?[/quote]No although i thought Tierney done well last season. Not amazing as some people seem to remember him but solid enough, good engine too.

[can u sit down please 0]

Warren...

Bennett showed his class again today. He was always one for the future and needed a run of games.

[Cerberus 0]

Agreed - I thought Bennett was easily our best player today.

[morty 0]

Lol, why dig up such an old thread?