Thoughts from the friendly

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Boogle"]Myself, I would have got rid of Nelson, his passing is going to be his downfall in this league.[/quote]Will it?  It didn''t do dear old Malky any harm.  And although this comes with the usual disclaimers of it was only a friendly etc etc, I didn''t think his passing was bad today.

[Boogle 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="Boogle"]Myself, I would have got rid of Nelson, his passing is going to be his downfall in this league.[/quote]
Will it?  It didn''t do dear old Malky any harm.  And although this comes with the usual disclaimers of it was only a friendly etc etc, I didn''t think his passing was bad today.
[/quote]

Oh come on, you cant compare Nelson to Malky. Malky wasnt a superb passer, but Nelsons hoofs either end up in the jarrold stand or out for a goal kick up the opposite end. Nelsons passing makes Malky''s look like bloody Cruyff!

[Graham Humphrey 13]

I think your memory is deceiving you somewhat.  Malky had more than his fair share of hoofing the ball straight out for a goal kick.  I think they are very similar in style.  Only differences appear to be one didn''t play in a 7-1 home defeat and scored a few goals against Ipswich.

[Boogle 0]

My memorys fine, thanks for asking, maybe yours is a tad unhinged. Malky was a decent Championship player, a decent SPL player, before the SPL turned into a laughing stock. Nelson is a League One player at best.

Lets have this debate again after 10 or so games and see how Nelson gets on. I will happily apologise if Nelson proves me wrong, and becomes a better servant to the club than Malkay.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="morty"]Lol, if you say so.
[/quote]

Yes, I say so. Sorry for having an opinion contrary to yours. Not.

[/quote]

In actual answer to the actual question - I think we would have won more in the air in their box if Holt had been there and their defence would have had even more of a headache. For me it still has to be Holt and Martin to start at the moment.

As for us playing hoofball, I wonder what some games people have been watching, as for Hoolahan not touching the ball since christmas, I really do hope that is a joke!

[Graham Humphrey 13]

Hmm.  No need to talk like I''ve just spent my last two posts slagging him off.  And the SPL was hardly a top-quality league when he was there either.  I never suggested that Nelson would be a better servant either (it''s Malky and not Malkay, by the way).  I always find it a bit odd how people say Nelson''s not good enough because his passing generally isn''t especially good when we''ve had massively popular players who aren''t a lot better with the ball at their feet.

[CanaryJames 0]

I agree, Holt & Martin to start us off.

It would have been harsh to drop Martin after last season. After the pre-season he''d had, it''d now be ridiculous.

Holt has to start if fit as well (at least to begin with).

Superb having a player like Jackson to bring on though.

And the midfield sounds like it presents many options, oozing class.

Crofts, Surman, Lappin, Hughes, Smith, Fox all scrapping for the midfield positions behind Hoolahan, with Gill/Tudor-Jones as back-up & McNamee offering something different.

The thing I''m liking about this midfield is it''s versatility. You could argue that Hughes, Smith, Fox, Crofts are all comfortable at either the base of the diamond, or wide. Only Surman/Lappin have fixed positions really.

[Lincs CR 0]

You know, if Nelson goes and scores some late goals in the season for us that seals a top 6 spot his doubters will all be loving him again.

How about everyone just sits tight and waits to see how he does in a league he''s barely seen before in order for people to say he''s as good as Malky?

[LinkNR9 0]

[quote user="chicken"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="morty"]Lol, if you say so.
[/quote]

Yes, I say so. Sorry for having an opinion contrary to yours. Not.

[/quote]

In actual answer to the actual question - I think we would have won more in the air in their box if Holt had been there and their defence would have had even more of a headache. For me it still has to be Holt and Martin to start at the moment.

As for us playing hoofball, I wonder what some games people have been watching, as for Hoolahan not touching the ball since christmas, I really do hope that is a joke!

[/quote]

Thank you, all I wanted was a sensible observation. With Holt in the team, the temptation is to knock it high and long for the flick-on (as with Crouch in the England team). Based on today''s performance, can we get the ball out wide for crosses whipped in or are we going to get more success going through the centre?

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Lincs CR"]How about everyone just sits tight and waits to see how he does in a league he''s barely seen before in order for people to say he''s as good as Malky?[/quote]Good job I didn''t say he was as good as Malky then.  Phew, that was close.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Boogle"]

My memorys fine, thanks for asking, maybe yours is a tad unhinged. Malky was a decent Championship player, a decent SPL player, before the SPL turned into a laughing stock. Nelson is a League One player at best.

Lets have this debate again after 10 or so games and see how Nelson gets on. I will happily apologise if Nelson proves me wrong, and becomes a better servant to the club than Malkay.

[/quote]

They are both old fashioned ''stopper'' style defenders. Malky was never the greatest distributer nor ball playing footballer, what he did best was to stop attackers from getting an easy shot in on goal.

In this regard I see Nelson as being pretty similar. If you are saying which is better then no one can argue Malky at this point but in all fairness Malky was not as great as some people paint him as being. A loyal servent to the club, yes - a model pro, yes - a good chap, yes - but none of these nessisarily make a great player. Malky never ever had the pace to make it in the premiership and really prospered from having the ever-green Fleming alongside him for all those years.

Before Malky came to us he had played 104 games in 8 years as a pro and at the age of 26, 70 for Queens Park, 34 games in five years for Celtic. He was a reserve team player for them, a squad player, something that gets overlooked. He wasn''t brought in amongst a hive of excitement over his signature and he played second fiddle to Jackson for the time they spent at the club together prior to Jackson falling out with Worthington.

Lets give Nelson credit where credit is due and lets give him the chance to prove what he is capable of.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

Nicely put Chicken.  Everything you have written there is spot on.Just to clarify that my original point was not to slag him off, nor imply that Nelson is better...

[morty 0]

Hoofball, my arse.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="LinkNR9"][quote user="chicken"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

[quote user="morty"]Lol, if you say so.
[/quote]

Yes, I say so. Sorry for having an opinion contrary to yours. Not.

[/quote]

In actual answer to the actual question - I think we would have won more in the air in their box if Holt had been there and their defence would have had even more of a headache. For me it still has to be Holt and Martin to start at the moment.

As for us playing hoofball, I wonder what some games people have been watching, as for Hoolahan not touching the ball since christmas, I really do hope that is a joke!

[/quote]

Thank you, all I wanted was a sensible observation. With Holt in the team, the temptation is to knock it high and long for the flick-on (as with Crouch in the England team). Based on today''s performance, can we get the ball out wide for crosses whipped in or are we going to get more success going through the centre?

[/quote]

I have to say that my biggest fear with the diamond is the frailties of a team beign exposed in wide areas. However it was well drilled today and I thought Hoolahan did a lot more dropping and hasseling than I have seen him do before - or at least more effectively anyway.

Our play was good today, it was mixed which is what you want. We generally didn''t go through the middle as such, we tended to knock it around drawing opposition players in to close the ball down and then give it to someone like Hoolahan or Fox who then switched it to who-ever lurked on the far side of the pitch. It really was good stuff to watch hence I say that Fox played a bit like Crook used to in sitting just infront of the back four and spraying passes around getting passing movements going and picking out a long pass when he had the chance.

When we got the oppertunity we put crosses in and used  the wide areas. Surman looks like a winger and has tricks to go with it. What really got me at times was the tempo we played at, some of the one touch passing almost without having to look to know where a player was.

I know what you mean when Holt is there there is the temptation to hit it up to him, that isn''t a bad thing unless that is all we do. Doherty it has to be said, did like to try and play the ball up to Holt a lot but then I think it is an easy option sometimes. I think the way Lambert is getting them to work is to keep the ball and then to play it into the box where you will get the true value out of Martin and Holt. Jackson isnt the biggest but he has a fair old leap on him and he is quick.

Another side for Ward Vs Doherty - at times today Ward would kill the ball dead and look to pass even when being chased down by an attacker,  if nothing else was on he would knock it sideways. Doherty would more likely just hit it upfield.

[DDD In The Fine City 1]

[quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="John"][quote user="Boogle"]

Nice to hear whats going on, but pre season is just about fitness, tactics, and gelling a team. Wouldnt judge players on how they perform too much.

Look at Newcastle, I remember they lost 6-1 to Leyton orient last summer, and went on to win the championship.

[/quote]

True, but if you''re looking for a positive it''d at least be a result that will go some way to shutting the moaners up.
[/quote]

And didn''t we have a really good pre-season just before losing 7-1 to Colchester?
[/quote]

And didn''t we win the league?

[DDD In The Fine City 1]

[quote user="Gazza"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Gazza"]

/Ward comfortable and how refreshing to see a centre back that actually wants to pass the ball/

[/quote]

These kind of comments amuse me.

What did Elliott Ward do with the ball today that we wouldn''t have seen another centreback (say for example the Doc) do?

This isn''t a knock at Elliott Ward because I''m pleased we''ve signed him but for the majority of the time (if not all the time) all he did was make routine sideways passes. Nothing more than that.

 

[/quote]

Because the Doc was not capable and just shows that lambert again has made the right decision releasing him.

 For me Ward wants to play football and that is something we have missed a centre back for a number of years. Is summary Ward is different class to the Doc, capito?!?

[/quote]

Based on one friendly? I totally agree [:|]

[Mark .Y. 352]

So, with Chrissy Martin "leading the line" have we seen the reason why PL did not get in another big striker as competition for GH.

Perhaps he is happy with, essentially, the current 3 strikers for the 2 front positions with the fallback option of Oli if we have real injury/suspension problems.

Mark .Y.

[Boogle 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Nicely put Chicken.  Everything you have written there is spot on.

Just to clarify that my original point was not to slag him off, nor imply that Nelson is better...
[/quote]

Sorry Graham, I got the wrong end of the stick.

[go donowa go 0]

sorry link nr9 forgot to show his comment first

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Boogle"]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Nicely put Chicken.  Everything you have written there is spot on.Just to clarify that my original point was not to slag him off, nor imply that Nelson is better...[/quote]

Sorry Graham, I got the wrong end of the stick.

[/quote]No worries [Y]

[Jim Smith 2,317]

A few belated thoughts on the game. Firtsly I said on Friday that after the Daggers game I was a bit less optimistic about the season. Well after yesterday that optimism has returned. Not because of the result. As with the fact we should not read too much into a defeat to Dagenham, we should also not read too much into a victory over a Newcastle side who are clearly still in the early stages of their pre-season and who had several players who looked well on the portly side. I have to say having seen us play various prem teams in recent pre-seasons, often looking way out of our depth I think that unless they spend on a few players in the next few weeks this Newcastle side are going to be struggling in the prem. Whilst they were not playing at 100%, they had very little about them that I think will worry top flight defences.

As for us the biggest plus for me is that with the players he has brought in this summer (and to an extent last season) it is clear that in terms of technical ability Lambert has taken the side to a new level. I will stick my neck out and say that I don''t believe that there will be a midfield in the championship this season with more technical ability on the ball. This lot can pass and link up and I firmly believe we will play some very good football this season. Whether that good football will always hurt the opposition will be the key issue.My conern is that we may be hasled and bullied by some of the more physical sides. But any side that lets us play will be asking for trouble.

What is also interesting is that any pre-conceived notions we had of how the new players might fit it were clearly almost all wrong. I thought that Crofts was a holding player who would take the Rusty role. That is not the case. he was excellent yesterday and I think will be a real crowd pleaser. Looks like a better version of Andy Hughes or perhaps a more accurate description would be a more attacking version of Gary Holt. Got forward quite a ot, put his foot in well and unlike Thursday also stayed wide when needed giving us an outlet down the right.

Many thought Fox would be back up for Hooly but he sits at the base of the diamond and makes us tick. The natural instinct of most British managers if to make their hoolding midfielder a dsstroyer. Lambert has gone the other way and put a passer in there.

Surman just looks great on the ball and very comfortable. Her was another who had a good game.

Finally Wes is looking really sharp and I think will flourish this season having players around him in Fox and Surman who are on a similar wavelength.

Up front jackson shows signs of promise.Makes good runs and holds the ball up pretty well for a small man. Enough to suggest that we can get by without Holty for periods if necessary.

My one real doubt remains at the back. Ward looks good and the fact he looks to pass it out on the floor is welcome (although I am sure will get us into trouble a couple of times this season if he gets sloppy). To his credit, Nelson did very well and with Whitbread still missing I guess must now be in line for a starting place. The passing ability of our new players makes him stick out like a sore thumb even more in our side and I still think he will struggle against genuine pace/class but will give him the benefit of the doubt. Same goes for russel Martin. I don''t think he''s good enough defensively but he looked good yesterday and again he is a player who is very comfortable on the ball which fits in with our new style.

Finally good to see the options on the banch. Korey was not there yesterday but will be a capable stand in for any of the midfield quartet when needed. Macnamee has come back looking very sharpe and was particularly impressive when he came on. enough to suggest he can fill in for wes when needed or provide a wide man option on the right.

all in all then no counting chickens but pretty encouraging!

Oh and Alan Smith is a t**t.

[morty 0]

Completely agree with all that Jim, especially the last line!!