Is it such a bad thing this relegation?

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

Now I know a lot of you won''t like this post and will call me one of the many moaners who have popped up on this board of late. Well, to some extent, I am a moaner, but I''m also a realist.

The thing that I need to say is, Look at West Brom.

Now, they have been up, then relegated, and are now back up in the Prem, yet we are still a better side than them in some respects. I feel pretty confident that if we were to go down we would stand a very good chance of coming back up. Have seen a number of 1st div games this year and they''ve been poor, despite people saying it''s even more competetive than last year. Competetive doesn''t mean quality!!! I think that most of this seasons players would stick with the club for at least one more year, and Shackell, Jarvis, Henderson, and Crow should all have matured in to good players, ready for first team football.

So I ask you, ignoring the dodgy feeling, is relegation such a bad thing?

[charlies dad 0]

Relegation is a disaster. I hate the clubs attitude this season. There is certainly no divine right to promotion in 18 months time, it doesnt come with a guarantee. Division one is like quicksand, and having emerged from the stinking swamp of rotherham Brighton Ipswich Stoke and suchlike crap, sinking back down with a pathetic whimper sticks in my throat. Having cleared the decks with a huge cull of prefessionals the like of which has never been seen, its not unreasonable to assume that a little bit of money should be spent in order to defend our hard won and precious premier league status. Taking my kids to see big games and big players has meant so much to me, and i would  fight tooth and nail to keep our status. doncaster admits that we could easily sell 35,000+ tickets per match this season, and NCFC are blowing a massive opportunity to expand the club to new levels. Im confident that if Nigel could keep us up this season, within 2 years we would surpass bolton and Middlesborough, and be regulalry competing on the fringes of the top 6. A little more ambition and a bit less ****ing prudence please.

[Hcuk 0]

To be honest, i don''t think that relegation is the worst thing in the world. I think we''d only loose Greeno, good luck to him. We would have the parachute money which is £6-7m for 2 seasons so even if we didn''t go straight back up we''d have some money to spend on players.

We''d still have Hux and we all know what he can do in the first div!

I''d love us to stay up, but i''m just not sure where the points will come from this season......

OTBC

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Yeah I think relegation would be a disasterous thing.  We might do a charlton.  We might do a Bolton or a WBA.  But how do we know?  How many people who watched us stroll home 3-1 over Luton on our first game back in Div 1 thought, "Oh well.  Another 9 years of this then!"  Not many I''d be willing to guess.  There''s absolutely no guarantees we''d come back up.  The 1st Div will be even harder next year I''d bet.  Coupled with the poorness of the Premiership, I''d rather stay up thanks!

[westoncanary. 0]

In an ideal world we would love to stay up. Thats taken as gospel. BUT, if we were to go down we should be OK, it''s not as if we have loads of big time charlies who wouldn''t want to play in the Championship, we should be able to hold on to most players and start blooding the youngsters properly and make a swift return.

On the point of surpassing the likes of Bolton & ''Boro, they were also "yo-yo" clubs before fully establishing themselves so lets be patient.  This is a learning curve for all concerned with the club.  OTBC

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

how are leicester, wolves and leeds doing.

just because wba came back up doesn''t mean we will.

its a damn sight harder to get out of div 1 than it is to get into it.

if we went down we''d be no better equipped for promotion than the usual contenders.

[KeelansGlove 0]

No Im happy to go down as long as we dont think we will be coming back anytime soon. We would not win promotion from the championship with this team.

[Ayrton Twigge 0]

I recall Mumby stating during the summer that the club had a number of alternative strategies planned for this campaign. He didn''t explain them - and why should he - but broadly, most simple strategies take the form of a high case, low case, central case scenario. In our terms they might equate to:-

high case - flying clearly above the relegation threshold

central case - hovering aroud the relegation threshold

low case - getting hammered Wolves style. This is where you would plan for the likelihood of dropping down and coming back.

Looking at the season so far nearing halfway, we are nearest the central case - and thats potentially redeemable. Some sensible investment now can do it and keep us up.

Its galling to think that simple conversions of home draws to wins v Portsmouth, Blackburn, Villa and Palace and losses to draws v Everton and Fulham would have us 10 points better off and riding high.

Because we failed the first time round doesn''t mean we couldn''t do better in future.

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

Well I love it in the Prem, and I''d hate to go down, be delighted if we stayed up. But it wouldn''t be a disaster if we went down. Priority number one for me is being able to watch City, whatever division they are in. The higher the better obviously.

I hate the way some fans want us to emulate Charlton, Bolton, etc, all of whom have yo-yo''d for a bit first, but without doing the yo-yo bit. There''s a reason for it, and its the same reason why Leeds and Leics are struggling - losing their whole team and having to start again after relegation. That wouldn''t happen to us, we don''t have to offload players if we go down to save on wages because our shrewd and pragmatic club have put divisional pay in their contracts. A couple might want to go (e.g. Green) but by no means many.

But, Charlies Dad "its not unreasonable to assume that a little bit of money should be spent in order to defend our hard won and precious premier league status." - what do you call a little bit of money, and who would you buy in order to defend our status...?

And Keelan''s Glove "We would not win promotion from the championship with this team." - er, isn''t this roughly the team that did exactly that last May? Are we now a worse team than then, or is it just sheer pessimism?

For me, if we do go down, I''d like to see two or three new young prospects bought in - the likes of Ashton etc, the next Francis, Drury and so on, if Worthy can find them. That makes us stronger next time around, and gradually we build and improve. If you want instant success and guaranteed Prem football, go support Chelsea. I''m happy with City doing it our way.

[westoncanary. 0]

FTFW, look at the players that those teams went down with.  All on big wages & most with international ambitions.  Not so with us.  Those teams have all had to start from scratch, some with massive debts, and no scope to recruit top players that left.  Anyway, hopefully we will be OK this season and we won''t have to worry about it. 

KIOTIIHALS

[Viking 0]

Amarillo, you took the words right out of my mouth. Maybe I am dumb, stupid or one of the posters that has bloody blind faith as the almighty 1st wizard put it the other day in one of his posts.  But I am looking at the bigger picture of sustained growth and the survival of my football club rather than for instant gratification.  If that means going down and then coming back up, which I think we would do then so be it.  I''ll still be there on the terraces home and away and thinking the best of all the people involved in NCFC.

Blind Faith its a bonus!!!!!!!

[Canarychick 0]

I think its a dreadful attitude to take "it doesn''t matter" if we go down. Of course it does! With attitudes like that, no wonder Norwich have no confidence or fight in them.

I would go and watch them whatever, but we went up as Champions last year and, it seems, we are giving up without a fight, especially on the pitch!

You have to believe we are staying up until it is mathematically impossible not to. The players need to give 100% every week and we as fans need to be behind them 100% every week. Hard I know given the pathetic performance on Saturday but we must try.


Come on you Yellows!

[We need a Manager 0]

Would this team bounce straight back up ??? i doubt it , even now would anybody rush out to put money on City if they were playing West Ham , Sunderland , Wigan or even our friends down the road . Yes they may well beat them but would you want your mortgage on it ?????

[Viking 0]

Canarychick,  Im not saying "it doesnt matter if we go down" what Im saying matters, is if we over spend and put our football club in the financial myre. That would certainly mean more years in lower divisions and possibly more frustration with poor managers like Hamilton, as Worthy would surely be snapped up by another team.

I would far rather we stayed up and as my cup is always half full rather than half empty I still hope and believe we can stay up.  I think too many people come on here and vent their knee jerk frustration after the games at the weekend without considering the bigger picture.  Which is what this forum is all about and why we all read it.

Im really enjoying being in the premier league and get frustrated at some performances but by definition I am a supporter and that means I back the people at the club to be doing their best. I also believe that when the going gets tough and you aren''t winning games week in week out you all pull together.  This MB was very quiet after the win against Southampton.  

[westoncanary. 0]

Don''t get me wrong here.  Of course it matters, this has been the best time for us, ok, we are not winning games like last year, but at the same time we are by no means already certs to go down(no-one is this year).  We are probably where we reasonably expected to be and to have games like Chelsea coming up in a couple of weeks is fantastic & it is what we all want next season.  All we are debating is what can we expect IF we go down.  Believe me, I do not want to be playing Brighton,etc next season!!

[Canarychick 0]

Sorry Viking, I wasn''t getting at you!

Its just after 9 years out of the Premiership, I don''t like the thought of going down and fighting back again. And if you don''t get the top or second place in Division 1 you get in the play off position and we all know what that means.....!

[Campbell 0]

[quote]No Im happy to go down as long as we dont think we will be coming back anytime soon. We would not win promotion from the championship with this team.[/quote]

Is that some kind of joke?

So we ''walk'' to the very same Championship title last year, we improve our squad, would only realistically lose Greeno next season, have a manager who knows the division like the back of his hand...but we have no chance of getting back up?

Hmmmmm...

Relegation would NOT be the end of the world...we DO NOT have any rights to stay in this division! If we''re good enough, we''ll stay, if we''re not, we''ll go down and go again for promotion next season. Wolves spent £2m on Carl Cort in the January window last season...how many he goals did he get? Did they stay up because they signed an expensive striker? Nope. The board are being sensible...if there is only £1.2m to spend, that''s what Nigel will spend. If there''s £5m to spend, Nigel will spend £5m. If we have no money, we can''t sign anybody!

If we do go down, I''ll be more than happy with the team that will try and get us back up. I accept the argument that the teams that went down last season are struggling this year, but Leeds were in a huge mess, lost all of their good players this summer. Leicester had an ageing team, lost all of their best players this summer...Wolves again, had an ageing team, lost their best players. If we can keep some continuity and just lose Greeno, I am CERTAIN we will in the top 2.

[Big Rob 0]

We cannot even contemplate going down. Personally I think we will but we should be fighting tooth and nail to stay in this league..Its the biggest league in the world and we have to make sure we are part of it. If we go down then it will be very hard to bounce back at the first attempt. Not a lot of teams have done it.

I fear it will be another long period in the wilderness. We nearly went out of business last time around. Those were very bad days which we dont want to repeat. Yeah West Brom and Charlton bounced back and Bolton too....but what about Bradford, what about Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley, Wimbledon. It could just as easily go the other way too. Lets give this league a real good go and if by May we do go down i want us to go down having given it our all and not just go down with a wimper.  OTBC

[ZLF 274]

Is watching my team lose far more than they win OK?    In this league I am loving it!

I am (perhaps rather oddly) enjoying watching some of the most talented players in the world.  I have enjoyed seeing managers who can engineer wins out of draws (at our expense) by being tactically ahead of our own manager (MoyesvHux) - it confirms to me that this club NEEDS to be in this league.

However the club has to prove it has the right to be in this division by performing week in week out.  If we are only the 20th best club in the land we deserve to be relegated and I am, perhaps blindly wiz, confident that the clubs future is in great hands whichever division we play innext season. 

We have a board that does have a plan for the club, that findsitself in a league that it is not really prepared for, a manager that is learning fast but probably not fast enough to keep us up, and a squad of players that is infinitely better than the team we had last year.  We may not win the championship, or get re-promoted immediately but if the club have done as they said and positioned the squad so that we do not suffer the humiliating close season departures forced upon Ipswich, Wolves, leicester, w Ham, Sunderland etc etc over the last few seasons we will be in a position to run it close as Charlton and the baggies did.  By that time I hope Worthy will have learnt the valuable lessons (quality footballers need to be on the pitch not the bench, personal favourites & long distance runners do you no favours, improve tactical ability etc) needed to give us a better stab at survival. 

I agree with the view that the worst scenario is spending all the cash we have in failing to avoid relagtion leaving us bankrupt for the repromotion season, but I also feel we would be better being in a poor shape but still in the prem rather than relegated with a sparkly white balance sheet.  Its getting the balance between the last two that is difficult and that we as fans can only speculate upon.   

Of course relegation is a monumental disaster - but its not the end of the world;  thats bankruptcy, and 10 point deficit and a winding up order.

OTBC  

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

Nice to see we''ve got a good debate going here. I can understand the fears that some people have about us going down, but Rob Henry said it best, maybe with out knowing it.

"Yeah West Brom and Charlton bounced back and Bolton too....but what about Bradford, what about Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley, Wimbledon. It could just as easily go the other way too."

I see your point, but you have to remember the financial position they found themselves in when they were going down. These teams went down because they hadn''t looked after the pennies. Norwich have looked after the finances far better. This will mean that like others have said, we would only lose a couple of players, Greeno and Francis being the most likely, none of our other players would be looking to get out, or other teams wanting to buy them.

Now, it does make me feel like merd to think about relegation, but in all honesty, the club might be better off playing 1st division football next year than Prem. If we stay up, then I''ll be delighted, but I just think that if that happens, we may struggle even more than we have this year and players will be wanting to get away from a sinking ship.

[ZLF 274]

Taking the view that we cant contemplate relegation is a view that the likes of leeds bradford and every struggling div1 or lower side took.  Any senible business plan will cover all eventualities and if the board had not planned for it they ran the risk of ruining the club harder and faster than chase could ever acheive.  

The reality was that we were always going to in a relegation battle - pre-season predictions of a top 10 finish were always in the realms of fantasy football. 

OTBC

 

[Craig Colling 0]

This debate seems to be going in circles....

In the WORST case scenario and Norwich are relegated we will be in strong position to be in the top 3 the follwing year because of the financial gain of the parachute money and an improved squad compared to last year (maybe minus green!). What certain posters seem to be missing is that unlike Leeds, Wimbledon, Wolves and such like we have a strong board, management team and group of players that ARE fighting to improve the club on a yearly basis.....

Hopefully Nigel will identify the missing ingredient and bring in his second loan signing who can make the difference

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

"Would this team bounce straight back up ??? i doubt it , even now would anybody rush out to put money on City if they were playing West Ham , Sunderland , Wigan or even our friends down the road . Yes they may well beat them but would you want your mortgage on it ?????"

That''s another corker. Just think, how could any team get promoted without at least beating those teams. Oh hang on...

[Northern Canary 0]

It is a bad thing, because its probably just as hard as ever was to get promoted even when you go down. And plus it probably wont be the same team we have now that plays in div 1. Green will probably be sold and possible francis. Then there are the ageing players: Jonson. Helveg. Charlton. Fleming. Holt. And last time we got relegated, we never imagined it would take 9 years too get back into the premiership. However, if we did get relegated, im sure Nigel could do the same as West brom

[kdncfc 0]

No genuine city fan would want to see the club put at risk but I and some others feel as though we have been to cautious in our approach. Personally I''d rather the attitude had been that we were 19 million in tv revenue better off than last season, even if we spend 8 million we will still be 11 million better off than had we not got promoted minus the money for corner infill , pitch and other bits and pieces. If we did go down then the parachute payments would soften the blow and at least we would be much stronger due to the money invested in the team. The most important thing in my view is that any players signed were on divisional pay to avoid the problems that them lot down the road have encountered. Personally I think relegation would be a bad thing  even though I cant say I''m enjoying this season much because we haven''t got a team good enough to compete at this level, but if we could somehow survive and get some quality players in and win a few more games it would be far more enjoyable than the fizzy league.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

I remember the feeling in my ''ample'' stomach, when the ref blew for full-time against Villa, on the last game of the season, and the last game in the Premiership for NCFC in 1995. Devastated, distraught, inconsolable, you name it I and many others felt those same emotions.....

We were UEFA Cup giant-killers one moment, and then into the 1st Division with a "Chairman" who didn''t give a toot!  The rest is history.

9 long years on, we are back, in probably one of the finest footie leagues in the World!  I would ''prefer'' to remain in it than go through those "gut wrenching and despondent emotions" I sadly felt nearly a decade ago.

Personally, I don''t think parachute payments will put us in good stead if we''re relegated. Realistically, it will be difficult times again, regardless who remains or goes. Of course, I will still be there next season, whatever scenario arises. Because I love the Club and the game. "Relegation".........No thank-you, because it is "such a bad thing!" Especially if a certain neighbour passes us on our way down...  (Doesn''t even bear thinking about!) OTBC ;~)

[We need a Manager 0]

We may have beaten them last season Amarillo but that does not mean we would do it again next season , spirits will be down , the best players will leave , and the division is just not that easy to get out of . Could anybody say with any certainy that if City were in the Championship right now they would be in the top 2 . Maybe the cup match at Upton Park will give us a little clue as to how much we have improved from last season or not as the case maybe .Remember last time we went down we were all confident it was for one season ....nine years later .

[Normann Canary 0]

You will have excuse me if I do cover some old ground here, I tried to read all the posts but skimmed thru some as there were so many... but:

IMHO:

I think as genuine supporters, It doesn''t matter whether we have excepted the possiblilty of relegation, or whether we still beleive "blindly" if it be that, that we will stay up! The "optimistic" approach and the "realistic" approach... two similar but different ways of approaching a situation that affects us all... "relegation". Neither train of thought should affect our "loyalty" to our team, and that''s what I''m getting at!

As long as we remain loyal, then both IMO are ok... accepting the fact we may go down, doesn''t have to mean that we''ve lost heart and given up... and wont fight to stay up, just as believing that we wont go down, doesn''t mean that when and if it becomes reality that we will (go down), we''ll breakdown and cry (although I may well do that )... and stop supporting the team... (which i wont).

They''re just two different human reactions to a threat, which are employed by us to remain "positive"... and you cannot say that either side of the debate is not (positive) in varying aspects, can you??

As for relegation is it so bad?? IMO, it''s not a positive action for a club to have put upon it really, the overall feeling of it is "negative" (GOING DOWN), but like with anything, there ARE positives, and they will always be found and shown, so as to counteract the initial negative action (relegation), so we can find balance and stability, build up ready to return... so depending on your train of thought, it''s going to be either "not so good" or "bad" for you... but it''s how well you''ve "balanced" your opinions on the matter, that will determine how "positively or negatively" you will react to the outcome...

This is ofcourse just MHO...

Mello Yello:

I would very,very,very much rather stay up, but we are still the UEFA Cup Giant Killers if we go down... no-one can ever take that honour way from us...

[beelsie 0]

Going down would be a big blow, but not as much of a blow as being bankrupt. To spend the sort of money necessary to secure players of proven ability capable of the necessary defending and scoring skills, would bring about such a scenario.

These sort of players are already at clubs with huge investors or huge crowd capacities on huge wages£20000 a week plus.

These type of players would need huge incentives to be tempted to join a team of strugglers, even if they are on the benches of Chelsea or Man U, hoping for a place on the field. Remember sitting on the bench for any of the top teams being paid £20000 a week plus to the mercenary minded young player is infinitely more comfortable than fighting relegation with little old NCFC. However hard they tried they could not guarantee to beat relegation. The relegation clause of reduced wages that must be built into their contracts should relegation occur, and would not be acceptable to most once they viewed the prospects in the round.

The effect of being in a relegated team means that it is likely that the sell on fee that could be expected for our costly purchases would reduce considerably resulting in losses, as did happen at Leeds.

To be honest, IMHO it would take a vast investment to produce a team that one could guarantee to compete and maintain our stay in the Premiership.

The squad size would need to be minimum of 28 and they would need to be all of equal talent and all of them on similar or the same wages.

To produce the wages necessary to maintain that squad means a stadium capable of holding 40000.

To create the stadium at this point in time with the finances that are available would put us in the position that Leeds faced 5 years ago and led to the demise of this present day.

I would not want place NCFC in that position. IMO we came up a little too early and therefore we must be patient enough to hope that Nigel Worthington can once more get our boys playing better together and with some prudent quality loan signings about 3 who are ready for a fight we will stay up!!!

The promising youngsters that we have in the reserves may hopefully be able and mature enough to do a job for us next season hopefully in the Premiership, a position that our loan signings have helped us to secure. With money in our pockets that we can spend on good players without the pressures that we now face.