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Arsenal Youngster on loan!?!?!?!

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Apparently Paul Lambert has been in talks with Arsene Wenger about the possiblity of signing one of their youngsters in, in January!

I really hope its Wilshere or Merida!

Who would you like Lambo to bring in?

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Yes, let''s loan another Arsenal youngster ...... and make them some more cash. The loan system stinks!

We loaned Bentley from Arsenal, trained him, played him, coached him, developed him and they then sold him for £7.5M to Blackburn. And how many Premiership matches did he play for Arsenal? Not one!

The loan system keeps the rich clubs rich and the poor clubs poor and typifies everything that is wrong with the game today, where money rules everything.

As far as I am concerned I would rather we train, coach, play and develop our own players ... not somebody else''s.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]Yes, let''s loan another Arsenal youngster ...... and make them some more cash. The loan system stinks!

We loaned Bentley from Arsenal, trained him, played him, coached him, developed him and they then sold him for £7.5M to Blackburn. And how many Premiership matches did he play for Arsenal? Not one!

The loan system keeps the rich clubs rich and the poor clubs poor and typifies everything that is wrong with the game today, where money rules everything.

As far as I am concerned I would rather we train, coach, play and develop our own players ... not somebody else''s.[/quote]Yeah the loan system stinks, glad we never brought in Huckerby, Crouch, Ched Evans, Martin Taylor, Fraser Forster etc etc. Loaning players isn''t perfect, but are squad is desperately thin in places and better to loan a younger player than spend money on a permanent signing who may not be good enough to make the step up if we get promoted.You can say that we help develop Bentley and didn''t get any money for him, but we received his services for a season (not that he was that great, and Blackburn loaned him before they bought him)The loan system has been around since at least the 60s so it isn''t a thing of the modern game. Yes it would be great if all out players were from our own youth teams but that is never going to happen is it? Teams that use the loan system well will always benefit, as we have done in the past.

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In the 60''s and 70''s we BOUGHT players like Crook, Culverhouse, Paddon, Livermore, Gunn, Bowen and many more who were established reserve team players of bigger clubs who couldn''t break into the first team as regulars.

We developed them and that paid us back very well. We developed a team with those players in it. How can teams now be developed when the players are recalled to their parent clubs.

The loan system was originallt brought in for emergency use only ... if a club had a massive number of injuries etc. Nowadays it is only used to increase the value of players who are not wanted at their parent club or to develop youngsters to the benefit of those rich clubs. It is greatly to the detriment of the poorer clubs.

Yes we have benefitted from some of those loanees but remember that their managers usually want us to play them (and pay them) if we loan them. Your list of good loan players we have had is comendable, but, if you give yourself a little time, I am sure you could think of some, especially last season, that don''t quite fit that bill.

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Think you need to realise something mate...We live in a society dominated by money and comercialismThe times you talk about you could have bought an entire league 1 team and reserves for half the price it cost 1 team to buy a certain Mr Ronaldo.If loans were banned then it would only be the smaller teams suffering, the loan system is like anything available to the human race.If it can be abused for benifit it will be.

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Loaning players means that you can bring in a higher calibre of players than the ones you could sign on permanents. It works fine unless you''re Glenn Roeder and want to build your squad on them, look at Watford, they''ve got in Lansbury (Arsenal youngster), Cleverley (Man Utd youngster), Cathcart (Man Utd youngster) and Heidar Helguson (QPR). Without those loanees they''d be a lot worse of in terms of league position than they are

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]Yes, let''s loan another Arsenal youngster ...... and make them some more cash. The loan system stinks! We loaned Bentley from Arsenal, trained him, played him, coached him, developed him and they then sold him for £7.5M to Blackburn. And how many Premiership matches did he play for Arsenal? Not one! The loan system keeps the rich clubs rich and the poor clubs poor and typifies everything that is wrong with the game today, where money rules everything. As far as I am concerned I would rather we train, coach, play and develop our own players ... not somebody else''s.[/quote]

check your facts your miles out with that price

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]In the 60''s and 70''s we BOUGHT players like Crook, Culverhouse, Paddon, Livermore, Gunn, Bowen and many more who were established reserve team players of bigger clubs who couldn''t break into the first team as regulars.

We developed them and that paid us back very well. We developed a team with those players in it. How can teams now be developed when the players are recalled to their parent clubs.

The loan system was originallt brought in for emergency use only ... if a club had a massive number of injuries etc. Nowadays it is only used to increase the value of players who are not wanted at their parent club or to develop youngsters to the benefit of those rich clubs. It is greatly to the detriment of the poorer clubs.

Yes we have benefitted from some of those loanees but remember that their managers usually want us to play them (and pay them) if we loan them. Your list of good loan players we have had is comendable, but, if you give yourself a little time, I am sure you could think of some, especially last season, that don''t quite fit that bill.[/quote]The game has changed hugely since the days of being able to sign players like Crook etc. Squad sizes have grown hugely and teams now have close to 40 players in their first team, reserves and youth team, these players are also paid much greater and they have little desire to move down leagues and get paid less. Also transfer fees have increased on a ridiculous scale, with the top leagues moving further and further away from the lower leagues.For us there is no way we could sign good younger players from the Prem League, the transfer fees and wages are just to great for us, if we had the chance to get some good young players from Arsenal we would be stupid not to, if they help us get promoted then surely it is a good thing. I''m not saying we should fill our team with them like last year, but one or two in key positions would be invaluable. If the club loan players there is no way the other club can force us to play them, look how Burnley dropped Mark Randell last year. And generally with loans we will only pay a percentage of the wages, I would hazard a guess that no more than we would normally pay.I would say it is never to Norwich''s detriment to get high quality players in, even if only for 6 months. The main problem is we have loaned some absolute stinkers over the last 18 months.

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No ... that''s short term thinking only.

If those players were not loaned out by the bigger teams how would they develop?

The bigger teams are using the lesser teams and will continue to do so unless there is change.

In the country where money is everything, the USA, they have overcome the ''money rules all'' senario by bringing in squad limitation to their sports teams. Without some kind of modification to football in this country we will have the same teams fighting for the top four places each season. It has now been about eight seasons that the ''big four'' have occupied those positions apart from one season when Everton replaced Liverpool. Is that what you want from our national game for the next ten seasons (unless another megarich arab comes along)?

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When Wenger was talking about loaning out Wilshire, he said it would have to be another Prem team (Burnly have asked about him, and Wenger has since said some nice things about Burnley-deal done, I would think) or a "top Championship side".

Any players who he feels has a future with them will go to a club like that.

Any they aren''t sure about will be loaned to a club like us.

Brian McGovern was a loan once from there, a "promising youngster" -or so it was thought at the time!

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to Delia''s Devonshire Dirtbox

As the Bentley''s transfer fee is listed as ''undisclosed'' as was the transfer from Blackburn to Spurs (reported as £15M plus) you had better tell me the transfer fee and where you gained the information.

As far as I am aware the £7.5M was reported at the time.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]No ... that''s short term thinking only. If those players were not loaned out by the bigger teams how would they develop? The bigger teams are using the lesser teams and will continue to do so unless there is change. In the country where money is everything, the USA, they have overcome the ''money rules all'' senario by bringing in squad limitation to their sports teams. Without some kind of modification to football in this country we will have the same teams fighting for the top four places each season. It has now been about eight seasons that the ''big four'' have occupied those positions apart from one season when Everton replaced Liverpool. Is that what you want from our national game for the next ten seasons (unless another megarich arab comes along)?[/quote]

Things certainly do change. 10 years ago I wouldn''t have predicted Wigan Athletic could finish 10th in the prem and continue to stay up, I wouldn''t have guessed Newcastle and Leeds to be in their current position. Football is unpredictable as is the case with Liverpool this season.

 

I presume you wish we hadn''t sent Martin and Spillane out on loan last year, let them develop for a season and now reap the rewards?

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Do you mean I would rather Spillane and Martin were at Luton and not playing for us rather than some of Roeder''s stars who were playing for us? Do I need answer that?

How much better would they both be now with experience of the Championship behind them.

The players who played instead of them certainly did us proud! That was a good example of modern day loans.

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[quote user="Legend Iwan"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]No ... that''s short term thinking only. If those players were not loaned out by the bigger teams how would they develop? The bigger teams are using the lesser teams and will continue to do so unless there is change. In the country where money is everything, the USA, they have overcome the ''money rules all'' senario by bringing in squad limitation to their sports teams. Without some kind of modification to football in this country we will have the same teams fighting for the top four places each season. It has now been about eight seasons that the ''big four'' have occupied those positions apart from one season when Everton replaced Liverpool. Is that what you want from our national game for the next ten seasons (unless another megarich arab comes along)?[/quote]

Things certainly do change. 10 years ago I wouldn''t have predicted Wigan Athletic could finish 10th in the prem and continue to stay up, I wouldn''t have guessed Newcastle and Leeds to be in their current position. Football is unpredictable as is the case with Liverpool this season.

 

I presume you wish we hadn''t sent Martin and Spillane out on loan last year, let them develop for a season and now reap the rewards?

[/quote]That''s a touch of hindsight, because they were sent away initially never to comeback and darken our door again. 

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Because you could predict before last Christmas when Roeder wa in charge that we were going down and as such they should of been at the heart of our defence and a key striker?

They played two divisions below us last year a complete difference in standard, if they had played and made mistakes I bet you would of been complaining then!

But they came back a year older and much better disciplined as professionals, that simply wouldn''t of happened here.

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Yellow Wall......... I take my crest off to you Sir!

Thoughtful stuff and I agree that loaning out players is often simply to "shop window" unwanted stock.... and you invariably get poor service and disinterest while they are there......

Ban it.........

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Thank you Cluck ..... I always knew you were a sensible chap.

Now if we can just convince a few more hundred thousand ..........

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]In the 60''s and 70''s we BOUGHT players like Crook, Culverhouse, Paddon, Livermore, Gunn, Bowen and many more who were established reserve team players of bigger clubs who couldn''t break into the first team as regulars.

We developed them and that paid us back very well. We developed a team with those players in it. How can teams now be developed when the players are recalled to their parent clubs.

The loan system was originallt brought in for emergency use only ... if a club had a massive number of injuries etc. Nowadays it is only used to increase the value of players who are not wanted at their parent club or to develop youngsters to the benefit of those rich clubs. It is greatly to the detriment of the poorer clubs.

Yes we have benefitted from some of those loanees but remember that their managers usually want us to play them (and pay them) if we loan them. Your list of good loan players we have had is comendable, but, if you give yourself a little time, I am sure you could think of some, especially last season, that don''t quite fit that bill.[/quote]But we''re not in the 60''s and 70''s, football like society has moved on, premiership sides don''t get by with 20 man squads.

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European squads and World Cup squads manage on far less than the 50 players on the books of the top clubs. They only use how many? 25 or 30?

The rest are investments. Loan them out, if they are any good let them develop, let them get experience and then they are recalled. If they are not going to make it, let them develop, let them get experience, and by so doing increase their value and then sell them.

How do the big clubs get into financil difficulties? When the brown smelly stuff hit the whirly thing at Leeds they had 54 well paid professional footballers. That''s a few more than 20!

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The point being .... OK they need more than 20, but do they need 50?

Sometimes I am sure players are bought just to stop other clubs getting them.

A sensible squad limitation on players over 21 would benefit everyone ..... except perhaps the richest clubs.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]In the 60''s and 70''s we BOUGHT players like Crook, Culverhouse, Paddon, Livermore, Gunn, Bowen and many more who were established reserve team players of bigger clubs who couldn''t break into the first team as regulars.

We developed them and that paid us back very well.[/quote]2/3rd''s of your point relate to the 80''s, but yes. They did.I doubt very much that you could pick up a Tottenham reserve player for £50,000 nowdays though. It would seem that as soon as you deal with a Prem club that transfer fees are seven figures plus.

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But more importantly if somebody with potential was spotted there would be no way that any club would be allowed to buy them until they had been loaned out to either a) improve, develop, gain experience to see if they were worth keeping or b) increase their value after gaining experience.

Again a win, win situation for the big boys making sure they remain the big boys.

This was never what the loan system was intended for!

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]to Delia''s Devonshire Dirtbox As the Bentley''s transfer fee is listed as ''undisclosed'' as was the transfer from Blackburn to Spurs (reported as £15M plus) you had better tell me the transfer fee and where you gained the information. As far as I am aware the £7.5M was reported at the time.[/quote]

I remember it being reported at the time that they paid around 2.5mil and judging by further reports when he moved onto Spurs, Arsenal had a 40/50% sell on clause so they are hardley have been likely to pay 7.5mil upfront with that sell on clause involved, also remind me when Blackburn have had 7.5 mil to spend upfront on a youngster that had two seasons experience in the premiership? let alone 7.5mil to spend on any player at all

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Loan deals are suppose to benefit both parties.

We get a kid with raw talent that stands out at our level and pushes us onto promotion, Arsenal get  back a player with first team experience.

If the loan deal is sucessful for us (ie he is really good, we get pomoted and has the ability to play in the championship) and Wenger decides he isnt going to make the grade at Arsenal we must be first inline to sign him.

The player in question certinally wont be Vela, Wiltshire or Merida. Infact its more likly to be someone we havnt heard of.

I think Norwich fans are over critical of the loan system because of the way Roeder abused it.

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