What does last night tell us?

[Beauseant 0]

To lose like that after the way we played was excrutiatingly painful, but I think a realistic appraisal is that we are currently a very strong play off contender rather than a threat to the automatic spots. Against a better side than most we have played this year our weaknesses were more apparent, namely the lack of a commanding keeper, a right back who can''t defend to save his life, a centre back who is positionally suspect (Askou) and the lack of a genuinely threatening foil for Holt. Having said that, we also played Leeds off the park for long periods, but, as we all know, the key thing in football is to make dominance count and we rarely threatened their goal in the second half, while Beckford should have had a hat-trick as we tired and started to look badly stretched. Our propensity to give the ball away cheaply as a result of overplaying was also a bit worrying.

Unfortunately young Forster will get a lot of stick, but his two second half saves (particularly the one on one with Beckford) were outstanding, and there is  no evidence that Rudd would be any more error free. They are both very promising young keepers, but young keepers make howlers and sometimes they cost games. It is more difficult to justify Semmy''s performance as his defensive frailities were exposed repeatedly. Having failed to get off the ground on either of Leeds first two corners when charged with marking their danger man, he compounded things by switching off at the fateful goalkick and turning his back on the ball.

Don''t get me wrong, I''m actually very optimistic about our prospects, but we mustn''t lose sight of the fact that there is work to do either in the loan market or in the January window, and I can only pray that the board back Lambert in those areas. We are playing lovely football and should fear no-one in this division, but the fact that we have now played the other five teams in the top six, winning and drawing one each and losing three shows that we are not quite there yet. With a couple of good signings and no major injury worries I firmly expect us to go back up through the play-offs, and it''s too early to rule out the automatic slots, but we are not yet the finished article so we as fans need to manage our expectations.Having said that, I can''t wait for Saturday!

[DDD In The Fine City 1]

That even after playing out of our skins away from home at the team top of the league, we still have to find someone to blame and moan about

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Delias Devonshire Dirtbox"]That even after playing out of our skins away from home at the team top of the league, we still have to find someone to blame and moan about[/quote]

 

The only person I''ve "blamed" is Semmy, and I don''t think that''s unreasonable. My other observations are intended to be constructive, becuase the way that teams improve is by constantly looking for ways to be better, and I''m sure that that''s how Lambert is looking at it. We''ve been gallant losers too often in recent seasons and you don''t get points for that. If we''re going to go for automatic promotion we have to improve in certain areas.

[NCFC88 0]

Good post i agree with Semmy being to blame for the goal and that his poor defending is a something that needs to be soreted out or he will cost us more points. I also dont think we will make an auto spot but should hopefully make playoffs ( it is the most fun way to go up but can be a lottery )Dont see why you are getting slagged off for sharing your thoughts on the game. I didnt think you were negatvie just sharing your thoughts and being realistic some people cant seem to take that.

[Mook 0]

I felt pretty objective last night, and I didn''t see Otsemobor playing at a different level to the rest. Sure, he can be positionally suspect but he adds sooooo much going forward. And herein appears to be Lambert''s philosophy - we went virtually man-for-man in defence last night, which is extremely dangerous, but we were really committed to attack. We always had a man over on the opposite side to the play (although we weren''t often able to get the pass off) but we will score A LOT of goals this season, which will win us most games I think.

[kdncfc 0]

Spot on Beausant, we are looking more promising than for many a year but there are still issues with the team that need addressing. Dozy Otsemebor has cost us so many goals with his bad defending I find it hard to believe that he''s still at the club let alone in the first team but Lambert obviously had no option but to play him last night, felt a bit sorry for Forster but when you have to rely on a young keeper who is here to gain experience for the benefit of his club he is always more likely to make silly mistakes and cost you silly points simply because he is still learning.

There were lots of positives to come from last nights match but as ever money will dictate whether or not we trouble the top two this season and in the absence of new ownership I think we all know there''s not going to be much of that floating around. With a couple of decent signings we would wipe the floor with most of the dross in this division but as things stand at the moment the play offs look more likely.

[ron obvious 1,711]

[quote user="Mook"]I felt pretty objective last night, and I didn''t see Otsemobor playing at a different level to the rest. Sure, he can be positionally suspect but he adds sooooo much going forward. And herein appears to be Lambert''s philosophy - we went virtually man-for-man in defence last night, which is extremely dangerous, but we were really committed to attack. We always had a man over on the opposite side to the play (although we weren''t often able to get the pass off) but we will score A LOT of goals this season, which will win us most games I think.[/quote]The trouble with semi is his inconsistency. A defender is not allowed to make mistakes, because they are potentially so costly. The goalie''s responsibility is, of course, the greatest - as we all saw last night.So far as an attacking threat goes, the number of times I saw him run at their defence, stop five yards from his marker, then turn & pass backwards, far outweighed any useful overlaps & crosses. But I''ve seen games where he''s done that; I just don''t understand him. It''s purely psychological (is there a sports psychologist at the club?).

[Lambo 0]

Agree with most of that apart from "foil for Holt" our front 3 is the best in the league and I do feel they''ve got enough about them to get us out of this league.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Mook"]I felt pretty objective last night, and I didn''t see Otsemobor playing at a different level to the rest. Sure, he can be positionally suspect but he adds sooooo much going forward. And herein appears to be Lambert''s philosophy - we went virtually man-for-man in defence last night, which is extremely dangerous, but we were really committed to attack. We always had a man over on the opposite side to the play (although we weren''t often able to get the pass off) but we will score A LOT of goals this season, which will win us most games I think.
[/quote]

The trouble with semi is his inconsistency. A defender is not allowed to make mistakes, because they are potentially so costly. The goalie''s responsibility is, of course, the greatest - as we all saw last night.
So far as an attacking threat goes, the number of times I saw him run at their defence, stop five yards from his marker, then turn & pass backwards, far outweighed any useful overlaps & crosses. But I''ve seen games where he''s done that; I just don''t understand him. It''s purely psychological (is there a sports psychologist at the club?).


[/quote]

 

Semi''s "mistakes" last night were identical to against charlton where he switched off and got beaten to two headers by a player no taller than him thereby costing us 2 goals. Going forward he can be great but he conistently costs us goals. Spillane''s injurey has been a real blow as he was starting to look superb at right back and if anything was offering even more going forward than otsemabor.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Lambo"]Agree with most of that apart from "foil for Holt" our front 3 is the best in the league and I do feel they''ve got enough about them to get us out of this league.[/quote]

 

I think Martin is playing really well, but I just believe that a second striker with real pace and a good strike rate would make us that much better. At the moment I''m concerned that an injury to Holt would derail us badly.

As to the Semmy issue, I agree that he''s a threat going forward, but the primary role of a defender is to defend, and he is very inconsistent. I was very impressed with Spillane pre injury and think he might be the answer at right back as he is better defensively and good on the overlap.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

I don''t really understand why we don''t give Cody another try. I think he could be an excellent foil for Holt and has started to bang them in for the reserves. Would like to see him given at least half an hour on saturday.

[Lambo 0]

I see where your coming from with that mate, i genuinely do. But last season we''d found a strike pairing that looked promising (Gow and Mooney) and we broke that up by bringing in what we all felt was needed in Alan Lee our results got worse after that.

Until we have to change it we need to stick with whats working.

[Faraway KAB 0]

I was there last night and we looked every bit the equal of Leeds. I didn''t see that Otsemobor had a worse game than anyone else.

Our problem seemed to be overcomplication - trying to walk it into the net rather than having a go. We need to get better at this. Martin is really the only striker who is prepared to "shoot on sight" and is worth his place for that, but I can''t disagree that somebody quicker next to Holt would help. Leeds were wobbling badly in the middle of the second half and maybe putting Cody on to stretch them even further would have been an option?

As regards our chances of automatic promotion, I don''t see why we shouldn''t achieve that if we can take our chances. We were easily as good as Leeds, Charlton were incredibly lucky to take a point off us and the ref beat us at MK Dons.Our last home game against a top 6 side was a 5-1 win! Good earlier point about Holt though - if he gets injured, we''re screwed.

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

We are playing lovely football and should fear no-one in this division, but the fact that we have now played the other five teams in the top six, winning and drawing one each and losing three shows that we are not quite there yet. [/quote]

We did not play Colchester, MK Dons and Charlton last night, those two losses and draw were all over a month ago now. All those results show is that we were crap at the start of the season and, since Lambert has been manager, gotten steadily better. Leeds got lucky last night.

[ROBFLECK 134]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

To lose like that after the way we played was excrutiatingly painful, but I think a realistic appraisal is that we are currently a very strong play off contender rather than a threat to the automatic spots. Against a better side than most we have played this year our weaknesses were more apparent, namely the lack of a commanding keeper, a right back who can''t defend to save his life, a centre back who is positionally suspect (Askou) and the lack of a genuinely threatening foil for Holt. Having said that, we also played Leeds off the park for long periods, but, as we all know, the key thing in football is to make dominance count and we rarely threatened their goal in the second half, while Beckford should have had a hat-trick as we tired and started to look badly stretched. Our propensity to give the ball away cheaply as a result of overplaying was also a bit worrying.

Unfortunately young Forster will get a lot of stick, but his two second half saves (particularly the one on one with Beckford) were outstanding, and there is  no evidence that Rudd would be any more error free. They are both very promising young keepers, but young keepers make howlers and sometimes they cost games. It is more difficult to justify Semmy''s performance as his defensive frailities were exposed repeatedly. Having failed to get off the ground on either of Leeds first two corners when charged with marking their danger man, he compounded things by switching off at the fateful goalkick and turning his back on the ball.

Don''t get me wrong, I''m actually very optimistic about our prospects, but we mustn''t lose sight of the fact that there is work to do either in the loan market or in the January window, and I can only pray that the board back Lambert in those areas. We are playing lovely football and should fear no-one in this division, but the fact that we have now played the other five teams in the top six, winning and drawing one each and losing three shows that we are not quite there yet. With a couple of good signings and no major injury worries I firmly expect us to go back up through the play-offs, and it''s too early to rule out the automatic slots, but we are not yet the finished article so we as fans need to manage our expectations.Having said that, I can''t wait for Saturday!

[/quote]

 

Great post, I agree with the "Semmy''nitis" our back four suffered... Pity Spillane didn''t play, cause I rate him higher than Semmy. A commanding keeper... well all keepers make mistakes. The game could''ve been dead and burried were it not for Forster''s saves. But it didn''t half hurt didn''t it... :-( I think it''s great that Lambert heaps the praise on his team so they can go out all guns blaising again on saturday. But imo he should''ve had Cody on after 75 mins... He deserves a chance and he could''ve added some pace up front.

[Jimbo_Jet_Set 0]

That I shouldn''t get up at 4am to listen to a match (I''m in Japan) because I probably woke all of my neighbours up when the last minute goal went in.

Seriously though. It shows that there is still a fair amount of work to be done. We still lack the ability that Championship winning teams have of turning posession in to goals or to shut down a game as and when we decide.  The key thing I noticed from listening/trying to stream last nights game was our overall lack of pace. In my opinion this is what holds us back from becoming a top 2 side as opposed to a top 6 side. Leeds were able to bring on pace and it changed the game. We don''t really have that luxury. Our back four lacks speed (apart from the useless lump that is Semmy) and is always walking a tightrope against the Beckfords of this world. The same is true of our midfield and forwards. Our quality on the ball is excellent but it would be nice to have someone who can stretch a game and give defences something else to think about- for all our possession last night we didn''t actually get in behind Leeds enough to truely threaten them.

I think Lambert realises this and will look to recruit pace both up front and at the back. The continued use of the limited but quick Luke Daley shows this.

All in all I don''t think that last nights result (as frustrating as it was) is a bad thing. We are still right in the mix and this might just keep everyones feet on the ground.  In my opinion we are, injuries permitting, a nailed on top four side in this division. Whether we make the top two depends on a bit of luck and Lambert having the skill and funds to buy well in January. Onwards and upwards

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Like I said on another post, I believe the mistake was how quickly the goal kick was taken. Forster didn''t need to do that we should have been running the clock down. Had he waited until the players had taken position the defenders would have been watching. I don''t blame Semmy for that goal. He could maybe have cleaned Beckford out and taken a red for the team but it''s not so easy to think so fast in a split second.

As for the first goal, it was Semmy''s man and he beat him to head home. Similar to the Charlton game. This is a weakness in his game I''m afraid. But it looked to me like the ball came across the 6 yard box and a keeper as big as Forster could surely have claimed it? Maybe that''s another mistake he will learn from to benefit his club.

But Otsemebor was not the great attacking threat many are claiming. He spends too long trying to make up his mind whether to bomb forward or stay back and the moment is lost on him.

[8]But he dillied and dallied, dallied and dillied,
Lost his man and don''t know where to roam.

Such a frustrating player who could be such a good player if he could make decisions.

 

[GJP 79]

What does last night tell us?

That we''re still not convincing in the goalkeeper department but it''s probably not a major issue.

We could still do with some pace on the wings to give us a different threat.

And that Chris Martin isn''t suited to playing upfront in a more central striker role.

[Shyster 0]

Last night tells me that we have a side capable of getting us out of this Division, if.........if a pacey wide man (or two) whom can deliver crosses, is acquired for the second half of the season.

[The Butler 0]

Having watched the match on Sky and a chance to see the goals again and again.

Why is everyone blaming Semmy for the killer goal. Beckford is a striker not a wide midfield player. That comes, in my book, the responsability of the centre backs. So where were Doc and Askou should be the question.

Because he reacted quicker and a couple more strides would have had him taking the ball, everyone is on his back.

So he was "under" the ball for the first goal and should have stopped the header but so should a six foot seven goalkeeper.

I was proud of the team tonight, class throughout but again like MKDons luck turned against them.

That''s my worry good performances without the results will see us still in this league next year.

Who killed the black cat or broke the mirror(if Semmy then you can carry on blaming him)

 

[lordyfan 0]

What does last night tell us?well, dirty leeds got it right by making substitutes getting towards the business end of the game.we need to shore up the back 4. We were found wanting on more than one occasioneven theo could not have made a ricket like that for their winning goaland most importantlywe wuz robbed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="The Butler"]

Having watched the match on Sky and a chance to see the goals again and again.

Why is everyone blaming Semmy for the killer goal. Beckford is a striker not a wide midfield player. That comes, in my book, the responsability of the centre backs. So where were Doc and Askou should be the question.

Because he reacted quicker and a couple more strides would have had him taking the ball, everyone is on his back.

So he was "under" the ball for the first goal and should have stopped the header but so should a six foot seven goalkeeper.

I was proud of the team tonight, class throughout but again like MKDons luck turned against them.

That''s my worry good performances without the results will see us still in this league next year.

Who killed the black cat or broke the mirror(if Semmy then you can carry on blaming him)

 

[/quote]

That''s the trouble on here Butler my friend - there has to be someone to blame for everything. Normally for a goal to be scored there will either be individual brilliance or a succession of errors. I guess it''s like the old "tre of causes". I didn''t watch it on TV but I reckon Semmy was the closest player to Beckford. Shold he have been? Or should Doc or Askou been? Should they have been looking? Blame the lot if you so desire but I don''t blame any of the back four. It was the decision to take a goal kick before anyone was ready that cost us the goal. A crazy moment if you like. Forster should have taken as long as he could over that goal kick. He probably should have pushed the referee to the point of giving him a yellow. He should have made sure our whole team was ready. And further more after Beckford missed that chance Lambert should have brought on Cody to chase the ball into the corners to see out the last 2 minutes. After our midfield tired we weren''t going to win the game. We should have taken the point. Forsters mistake was not a poor kick but a poor decision. Blame is harsh on a young player though, because it''s how they gain their experience. He will have learnt from is but for the benefit of Newcastle.

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Great spelling on that post nutty[:O][:$]

 

[Nuff Said 5,966]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

Having watched the match on Sky and a chance to see the goals again and again.

Why is everyone blaming Semmy for the killer goal. Beckford is a striker not a wide midfield player. That comes, in my book, the responsability of the centre backs. So where were Doc and Askou should be the question.

Because he reacted quicker and a couple more strides would have had him taking the ball, everyone is on his back.

So he was "under" the ball for the first goal and should have stopped the header but so should a six foot seven goalkeeper.

I was proud of the team tonight, class throughout but again like MKDons luck turned against them.

That''s my worry good performances without the results will see us still in this league next year.

Who killed the black cat or broke the mirror(if Semmy then you can carry on blaming him)

 

[/quote]

That''s the trouble on here Butler my friend - there has to be someone to blame for everything. Normally for a goal to be scored there will either be individual brilliance or a succession of errors. I guess it''s like the old "tre of causes". I didn''t watch it on TV but I reckon Semmy was the closest player to Beckford. Shold he have been? Or should Doc or Askou been? Should they have been looking? Blame the lot if you so desire but I don''t blame any of the back four. It was the decision to take a goal kick before anyone was ready that cost us the goal. A crazy moment if you like. Forster should have taken as long as he could over that goal kick. He probably should have pushed the referee to the point of giving him a yellow. He should have made sure our whole team was ready. And further more after Beckford missed that chance Lambert should have brought on Cody to chase the ball into the corners to see out the last 2 minutes. After our midfield tired we weren''t going to win the game. We should have taken the point. Forsters mistake was not a poor kick but a poor decision. Blame is harsh on a young player though, because it''s how they gain their experience. He will have learnt from is but for the benefit of Newcastle.

[/quote]But Nutty, isn''t one of the great things about the team under Lambert that we''re not looking for a draw, even away to Leeds? We were still pushing to win - arguably not the most sensible option but one of the reasons I was proud of our performance, despite the result.

[Old Boy 0]

Didn''t see much of the game, but IMO what we lack is anyone a combination of pace and skill either up front or on the wings. This means we have to either pass the ball through midfield, which is difficult to do at high tempo unless you''ve got high quality players, or through midfield then out to the winger who''s already high up the field and virtually in position to make the cross - which again slows the tempo and is easy to defend against, or just lump it up to the big man, again easy to defend against. We do all of those successfully at times, but not if the opposition are wise to us. We''ve got Holt - my hero, but not very quick, Hoolahan - not quick but skilful, Martin - same as Hoolahan, and Lappin - skilful but slooowww. Then we''ve got Cody - quick but no skill, and Daley the same. We need a combination of Martin and Cody to give us options. If we''d had Beckford we would have had a field day last night I reckon. January''s shopping list:

1. Striker with pace and skill
2. Winger with pace and skill
3. Right back (until Spillane gets it together again

Must be out there somewhere. But I think if we''d had Spillane thundering down the right wing like he did in his last game, and Korey Smith in midfield we would have won last night! Or even had them on the bech to bring on for last 15 minutes.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="Old Boy"]Didn''t see much of the game, but IMO what we lack is anyone a combination of pace and skill either up front or on the wings. This means we have to either pass the ball through midfield, which is difficult to do at high tempo unless you''ve got high quality players, or through midfield then out to the winger who''s already high up the field and virtually in position to make the cross - which again slows the tempo and is easy to defend against, or just lump it up to the big man, again easy to defend against. We do all of those successfully at times, but not if the opposition are wise to us. We''ve got Holt - my hero, but not very quick, Hoolahan - not quick but skilful, Martin - same as Hoolahan, and Lappin - skilful but slooowww. Then we''ve got Cody - quick but no skill, and Daley the same. We need a combination of Martin and Cody to give us options. If we''d had Beckford we would have had a field day last night I reckon. January''s shopping list:

1. Striker with pace and skill
2. Winger with pace and skill
3. Right back (until Spillane gets it together again

Must be out there somewhere. But I think if we''d had Spillane thundering down the right wing like he did in his last game, and Korey Smith in midfield we would have won last night! Or even had them on the bech to bring on for last 15 minutes.[/quote]

AHA! Somebody on my wavelength.

[Snoots 0]

Last night confirmed that Lambert is tactically naive. No need to explain this statement as others on here last night and today have already and amply done so. I already held the opinion that Lambert was tactically lacking but of course you presented him as being at the pinnacle of tactical nous and man management skills. And his post match interview was cringe-makingly emotive. Dear oh dear. That having been said, let''s hope he learns from his mistakes and secures a home win against Swindon on Saturday as he surely must.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"]Last night confirmed that Lambert is tactically naive. No need to explain this statement as others on here last night and today have already and amply done so. I already held the opinion that Lambert was tactically lacking but of course you presented him as being at the pinnacle of tactical nous and man management skills. And his post match interview was cringe-makingly emotive. Dear oh dear. That having been said, let''s hope he learns from his mistakes and secures a home win against Swindon on Saturday as he surely must.[/quote]

That post tells me you''re yet another pr*ck who knows little about the game of football and I thank you for not attempting to disguise the fact.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"]Last night confirmed that Lambert is tactically naive. No need to explain this statement as others on here last night and today have already and amply done so. I already held the opinion that Lambert was tactically lacking but of course you presented him as being at the pinnacle of tactical nous and man management skills. And his post match interview was cringe-makingly emotive. Dear oh dear. That having been said, let''s hope he learns from his mistakes and secures a home win against Swindon on Saturday as he surely must.[/quote]

What is the alternative Bob?  That wonderful pinnacle of tactical nous and man management skills Bryan Gunn???

Maybe Lambert was found wanting last night.  I am one of his biggest fans but was one of the first to admit that Lambert should of made changes around the 70 min mark last night.

We all make mistakes Bob and sadly I think that the biggest mistake Lambert may make, is him not standing firm enough against those in the Boardroom to back his visions for the type of team he wishes to build here by supporting him in the transfer market.  Our bench was hardly filled with quality players who would of made the difference required last night where as Leeds had enough in reserve to put the pressure on towards the end of the game when it mattered.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Bob Franklin"]Last night confirmed that Lambert is tactically naive. No need to explain this statement as others on here last night and today have already and amply done so. I already held the opinion that Lambert was tactically lacking but of course you presented him as being at the pinnacle of tactical nous and man management skills. And his post match interview was cringe-makingly emotive. Dear oh dear. That having been said, let''s hope he learns from his mistakes and secures a home win against Swindon on Saturday as he surely must.[/quote]

What is the alternative Bob?  That wonderful pinnacle of tactical nous and man management skills Bryan Gunn???

Maybe Lambert was found wanting last night.  I am one of his biggest fans but was one of the first to admit that Lambert should of made changes around the 70 min mark last night.

We all make mistakes Bob and sadly I think that the biggest mistake Lambert may make, is him not standing firm enough against those in the Boardroom to back his visions for the type of team he wishes to build here by supporting him in the transfer market.  Our bench was hardly filled with quality players who would of made the difference required last night where as Leeds had enough in reserve to put the pressure on towards the end of the game when it mattered.

[/quote]

Up until Forster''s injury time error, we looked like the side capable of taking all three points.Lambert was right not to ring the changes.