O.T.B.C 0 Posted July 21, 2009 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Barclay_Boy"]yes Mr Bingo Caller, we''re still on course to return the season ticket, unless some serious ambition is shown in the next 2 weeks. Good to see you are still so obviously happy with the current state of affairs. how well the transfer kitty has been spent etc. You couldn''t care less really, could you?[/quote]I''m looking forward to it my friend. I had you down as a bit of a .... well let''s say slightly un genuine. I admit I was hasty in my judgement and I''m proud of you for going through with it and being a man of your word. It''s refreshing to see at least one of the chosen ten is prepared to put his money where his mouth is so to speak. [/quote]And how will we know that he has returned the ticket back? I want photo evidence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted July 21, 2009 [quote user="Canaries in Bed"][quote user="nutty nigel"] [quote user="Barclay_Boy"]yes Mr Bingo Caller, we''re still on course to return the season ticket, unless some serious ambition is shown in the next 2 weeks. Good to see you are still so obviously happy with the current state of affairs. how well the transfer kitty has been spent etc. You couldn''t care less really, could you?[/quote]I''m looking forward to it my friend. I had you down as a bit of a .... well let''s say slightly un genuine. I admit I was hasty in my judgement and I''m proud of you for going through with it and being a man of your word. It''s refreshing to see at least one of the chosen ten is prepared to put his money where his mouth is so to speak. [/quote]And how will we know that he has returned the ticket back? I want photo evidence.[/quote]An Englishman''s word is his bond my friend. And anyway, Nora has turned his head and she doesn''t take kindly to sheep with season tickets.I hear BB''s seat is quite a good one if you''re interested, although I suspect it will be to near the front for us taller fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary02 III 0 Posted July 21, 2009 [quote user="Canaries in Bed"][quote user="nutty nigel"] [quote user="Barclay_Boy"]yes Mr Bingo Caller, we''re still on course to return the season ticket, unless some serious ambition is shown in the next 2 weeks. Good to see you are still so obviously happy with the current state of affairs. how well the transfer kitty has been spent etc. You couldn''t care less really, could you?[/quote]I''m looking forward to it my friend. I had you down as a bit of a .... well let''s say slightly un genuine. I admit I was hasty in my judgement and I''m proud of you for going through with it and being a man of your word. It''s refreshing to see at least one of the chosen ten is prepared to put his money where his mouth is so to speak. [/quote]And how will we know that he has returned the ticket back? I want photo evidence.[/quote]On the pitch against Colchester and slung at the bench, surely? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACE 0 Posted July 21, 2009 Lets wait and see what happens. If it all looks grim 10 games in then we can go a little mental? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted July 21, 2009 Ace - your site looks very professional and I''m impressed. [Y]How do you make the link in your signature active? Mine only works on copy and paste. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Carrow 376 Posted July 21, 2009 [quote user="no. 6"][quote user="T"]Based on the quality of analysis on some posts which completely ignores all other revenues and costs of the club then it would be entirely appropriate to take ncfc fans as being fools.[/quote]Perhaps you could enlighten us fools and break down these other revenues and costs, quoting from the accounts where relevant, so they can be taken into account?No?Thought not.[/quote]Oh, hasn`t he told you? T is the fount of all knowledge on NCFC`s finances despite not being a shareholder and having to request that another poster sends him the annual reports. I hope you now realise that you have to bow down to this superior beings higher knowledge- i mean, i wouldn`t want you to think he was a pompous, self-righteous troll or anything......[:|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corbs 0 Posted July 21, 2009 pompous, self-righteous.....lets be honest when it comes to sport , especially football, quite a few of us fall into this category, why else do we continue to Post on this board? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bury Yellow 2 Posted July 21, 2009 Well Corbs I would say the vast majority on this board, of whatever intelligence level or age, support the club.T, however, at whatever intelligence level he is or what age he is, is certainly no supporter of this club but is most certainly supercilious!I thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted July 22, 2009 The NCFC accounts can be downloaded from companies house for a nominal fee. ND also prepared a financial summary. Those together with a read of articles on the Deloitte football finance reports and other newspaper reports such as the recent guardian article on football finance provide sobering reading. It is supercilious but whether people like it or not those documents show the reality of the finances at NCFC and football in general. Making any comments on transfers without reading and understanding those documents does make the comments from a number of ncfc look extremely foolish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
singing canary 0 Posted July 22, 2009 my point is what the board are saying to fans its very mis- leading . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted July 22, 2009 I would always assume that when looking at players any football club looks at the total cash flows for transfer costs, wages and agent fees compared to the total budgeted cash available. It would be crazy to do anything else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Carrow 376 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="T"]The NCFC accounts can be downloaded from companies house for a nominal fee. ND also prepared a financial summary. Those together with a read of articles on the Deloitte football finance reports and other newspaper reports such as the recent guardian article on football finance provide sobering reading. It is supercilious but whether people like it or not those documents show the reality of the finances at NCFC and football in general. Making any comments on transfers without reading and understanding those documents does make the comments from a number of ncfc look extremely foolish.[/quote]Why did you have to ask DF to send them to you then? I`m sure even you would except that the thread comparing Prestons 2008 annual report with ours showed two very differently structured clubs and it made very worrying reading. As much as you are desperate to apply black and white broadbrush platitudes to the arguments on here, the fact is that many smaller clubs are doing much better than us and are able to spend more on their teams. There is no point asking you why you think that is as you do not have the facts, but i`m sure that won`t stop you lecturing us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhickl 0 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="singing canary"]maybe the board should have made this clear then when asking not to claim rebates back.. all funds unclaimed will go to signing on fees of free players and wages . that is not how the board put it . they stated the money was to be used for transfers . garden path and led up sring to mind. i cant see signing on fees being that much to be honest not if the player is out of contract .[/quote]They never said that it would be used for transfer fees. They said it will go to the ''player budget''. If people are too ignorant to realise that a player budget also includes signing fees and wages, that''s their fault, not the clubs. Also signing fees are higher is the player is out of contract. It is effectively a transfer fee going to the player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="singing canary"]rebate =350.000 pledge by foulger=350.000 marshall=400k -500k clingan =650.000. russell = at a guess (150.000) roughly 2 million . 8.5 spent on wages last season returned shackell, lee, and many many more loan players free up wages .[/quote] Do you actually know how the transfer payment system works? Very rarely will you see a complete payment for a player - it is usually up to 50 per cent down although more commonly 25 per cent and the rest in dribs and drabs. For example Palace still owe Ipswich £400k for Lee and we are nearly in the next season. If you sell Clingan for £650k you''d be very lucky to see £300k of that immediately. When you sell a player it does not immediately swell a club bank account by the amount quoted in newspapers or by a club. For Marshall, depending on the sale terms, you may only have received £100-150k so far.[/quote]The payment terms use to be up for negotiation, like five payments of £250k a go for Kevin Reeves.Then it use to be 50% down and 12 months to pay the rest.It has now gone back to the old way, i.e., open for negotiation. Apparently we paid the whole of the Croft transfer fee upfront. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smudger 0 Posted July 22, 2009 Is anybody remotely surprised??? [:^)] [|-)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="Desert Fox"][quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="Desert Fox"] Cam,Whilst I agree with what you are saying, you are missing the point as to why we are so frustrated. Season after season we are made promises along the lines of the manager will be given all the proceeds of transfers to spend or the rebate will be given to the playing budget. Whilst the back of the fag packet calculations (including my own) are probably all wrong, we can all see that season after season the quality of the team has reduced despite money flowing into the club. For example, last year we made a £3.6M profit on player transfers and no major signings. This year we are about to sell all players (except possibly Hoolahan) that have nay value in the market. God knows what will happen next year if we dont get promoted (I am not expectant as you can probably tell) as we will have no one left to sell.[/quote]It''s nothing to do with what has gone on in the past, it is the calculations being made on this season with a number of people apparently assuming that you have £400k in your bank account for Marshall and a potential £650k on the way for Clingan. I am sure that will not be the case. I''d be surprised if you get half of that total. Furthermore it is not necessary to spend a fortune to get a good League One side - Millwall and Scunthorpe, among others, did not spend very much at all but produced fine competitive sides in the division, one of whom got out of the League and the other nearly managed it and may do well again this season.[/quote]Cam,We are going round in circles here. The fact that we may not receive all the Clingan/Marshall money in one lump is a red herring. We could equally defer the cashflow relating to any purchases in a similar manner to ensure cash neutrality.The real story is why we are not spending any money. With respect to Scuthorpe and Millwall, I am not sure that either of them is likley to generate the level of receipts we are from transfers and rebates. So, the key issue is why are the Board not levelling with the fans and why are they hinding behind words like "appropriate" and implying that rebate will be used additionally over and above the planned budget. I would rather that they set out their strategy in plain english and provided some real assurance that things are changing.At the end of last season they acknowledged that mistakes have been made and these will be rectified. Well I am completely what mistakes they are rectifying at the moment![/quote]Well here''s a scenario: £m.Year ended 31/5/2008 loss after excluding depreciation but not including interest (1.5)Net Interest payable (1.6)Reduction in commercial / TV receipts (if I heard Neil D. at the Open Day Forum correctly) (3.0)Season ticket rebates (I know 359k was left with the club - see below) (1.0)Approx 1,500 fewer season tickets (0.4)Say reduction in catering contribution (0.1)Repayment of capital element of loans (1.1)Total (8.7) Reduction in player budget* 5.0Reduction in overheads during 08-09 - annualised basis 0.6Say reduction in overheads during 09-10 - annualised basis 0.6Reduction in interest 0.1Total 6.3 Funding gap £2.4m. * Excludes transfer fees, agents fees etc. So how do you think the funding gap is going to be closed? Via the directors and/or the transfer fees is my guess.Marshall £600kLewis £100kRebates / Foulger £718k.Clingan £650k?? Playing squad or cut the overheads further? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="Desert Fox"][quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="Desert Fox"] Cam,Whilst I agree with what you are saying, you are missing the point as to why we are so frustrated. Season after season we are made promises along the lines of the manager will be given all the proceeds of transfers to spend or the rebate will be given to the playing budget. Whilst the back of the fag packet calculations (including my own) are probably all wrong, we can all see that season after season the quality of the team has reduced despite money flowing into the club. For example, last year we made a £3.6M profit on player transfers and no major signings. This year we are about to sell all players (except possibly Hoolahan) that have nay value in the market. God knows what will happen next year if we dont get promoted (I am not expectant as you can probably tell) as we will have no one left to sell.[/quote]It''s nothing to do with what has gone on in the past, it is the calculations being made on this season with a number of people apparently assuming that you have £400k in your bank account for Marshall and a potential £650k on the way for Clingan. I am sure that will not be the case. I''d be surprised if you get half of that total. Furthermore it is not necessary to spend a fortune to get a good League One side - Millwall and Scunthorpe, among others, did not spend very much at all but produced fine competitive sides in the division, one of whom got out of the League and the other nearly managed it and may do well again this season.[/quote]Cam,We are going round in circles here. The fact that we may not receive all the Clingan/Marshall money in one lump is a red herring. We could equally defer the cashflow relating to any purchases in a similar manner to ensure cash neutrality.The real story is why we are not spending any money. With respect to Scuthorpe and Millwall, I am not sure that either of them is likley to generate the level of receipts we are from transfers and rebates. So, the key issue is why are the Board not levelling with the fans and why are they hinding behind words like "appropriate" and implying that rebate will be used additionally over and above the planned budget. I would rather that they set out their strategy in plain english and provided some real assurance that things are changing.At the end of last season they acknowledged that mistakes have been made and these will be rectified. Well I am completely what mistakes they are rectifying at the moment![/quote]Well here''s a scenario: £m.Year ended 31/5/2008 loss after excluding depreciation but not including interest (1.5)Net Interest payable (1.6)Reduction in commercial / TV receipts (if I heard Neil D. at the Open Day Forum correctly) (3.0)Season ticket rebates (I know 359k was left with the club - see below) (1.0)Approx 1,500 fewer season tickets (0.4)Say reduction in catering contribution (0.1)Repayment of capital element of loans (1.1)Total (8.7) Reduction in player budget* 5.0Reduction in overheads during 08-09 - annualised basis 0.6Say reduction in overheads during 09-10 - annualised basis 0.6Reduction in interest 0.1Total 6.3 Funding gap £2.4m. * Excludes transfer fees, agents fees etc. So how do you think the funding gap is going to be closed? Via the directors and/or the transfer fees is my guess.Marshall £600kLewis £100kRebates / Foulger £718k.Clingan £650k?? Playing squad or cut the overheads further? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="Desert Fox"][quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="Desert Fox"] Cam,Whilst I agree with what you are saying, you are missing the point as to why we are so frustrated. Season after season we are made promises along the lines of the manager will be given all the proceeds of transfers to spend or the rebate will be given to the playing budget. Whilst the back of the fag packet calculations (including my own) are probably all wrong, we can all see that season after season the quality of the team has reduced despite money flowing into the club. For example, last year we made a £3.6M profit on player transfers and no major signings. This year we are about to sell all players (except possibly Hoolahan) that have nay value in the market. God knows what will happen next year if we dont get promoted (I am not expectant as you can probably tell) as we will have no one left to sell.[/quote]It''s nothing to do with what has gone on in the past, it is the calculations being made on this season with a number of people apparently assuming that you have £400k in your bank account for Marshall and a potential £650k on the way for Clingan. I am sure that will not be the case. I''d be surprised if you get half of that total. Furthermore it is not necessary to spend a fortune to get a good League One side - Millwall and Scunthorpe, among others, did not spend very much at all but produced fine competitive sides in the division, one of whom got out of the League and the other nearly managed it and may do well again this season.[/quote]Cam,We are going round in circles here. The fact that we may not receive all the Clingan/Marshall money in one lump is a red herring. We could equally defer the cashflow relating to any purchases in a similar manner to ensure cash neutrality.The real story is why we are not spending any money. With respect to Scuthorpe and Millwall, I am not sure that either of them is likley to generate the level of receipts we are from transfers and rebates. So, the key issue is why are the Board not levelling with the fans and why are they hinding behind words like "appropriate" and implying that rebate will be used additionally over and above the planned budget. I would rather that they set out their strategy in plain english and provided some real assurance that things are changing.At the end of last season they acknowledged that mistakes have been made and these will be rectified. Well I am completely what mistakes they are rectifying at the moment![/quote]Well here''s a scenario: £m.Year ended 31/5/2008 loss after excluding depreciation but not including interest (1.5)Net Interest payable (1.6)Reduction in commercial / TV receipts (if I heard Neil D. at the Open Day Forum correctly) (3.0)Season ticket rebates (I know 359k was left with the club - see below) (1.0)Approx 1,500 fewer season tickets (0.4)Say reduction in catering contribution (0.1)Repayment of capital element of loans (1.1)Total (8.7) Reduction in player budget* 5.0Reduction in overheads during 08-09 - annualised basis 0.6Say reduction in overheads during 09-10 - annualised basis 0.6Reduction in interest 0.1Total 6.3 Funding gap £2.4m. * Excludes transfer fees, agents fees etc. So how do you think the funding gap is going to be closed? Via the directors and/or the transfer fees is my guess.Marshall £600kLewis £100kRebates / Foulger £718k.Clingan £650k?? Playing squad or cut the overheads further? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted July 22, 2009 Its a bit like telling people that Doncaster stepped down from his role and people assuming that he had left the NCFC Plc board as a director (when in fact he had remained as a director). BTW the Doncaster related form 288b was lodged at Companies House on the 20th July 2009. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Its a bit like telling people that Doncaster stepped down from his role and people assuming that he had left the NCFC Plc board as a director (when in fact he had remained as a director). BTW the Doncaster related form 288b was lodged at Companies House on the 20th July 2009.[/quote]Gosh! You must have been phoning Companies House on a daily basis since Doncaster stood down to ascertain that amazing revelation. Good to see you leaving no stone unturned to pass on this invaluable information to us mere fans. You do remind me of a previous poster on here who had a similar dedication to unravel the facts. Truthseeker I think he was called. [Y] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Its a bit like telling people that Doncaster stepped down from his role and people assuming that he had left the NCFC Plc board as a director (when in fact he had remained as a director). BTW the Doncaster related form 288b was lodged at Companies House on the 20th July 2009.[/quote]Gosh! You must have been phoning Companies House on a daily basis since Doncaster stood down to ascertain that amazing revelation. Good to see you leaving no stone unturned to pass on this invaluable information to us mere fans. You do remind me of a previous poster on here who had a similar dedication to unravel the facts. Truthseeker I think he was called. [Y][/quote]Ah the Stowmarket Two''s gardener. No need to phone Companies House, we have the internet in Norwich! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Ah the Stowmarket Two''s gardener. No need to phone Companies House, we have the internet in Norwich![/quote]Don''t get upset Tangy, just because you weren''t invited to be one of Cluck''s clique! Stick with NCISA for now, who knows, you may even get elected to the committee at the AGM! [;)][:D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
