a message to smudger...your a disgrace to this fine city !

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''d take Hughes back tomorrow.. who wouldn''t? Do ya reckon Leeds would swap him for Cureton??

Is doing what you consider best for the club enough to always be held in high regard? Or do you have to die first[:O]

 

[/quote]

No you earn that respect. Money does not buy it nor does death.

I think at one stage the present board had a degree of respect from the majority of the fans, that has been thrown away over the past few years, helped in no little way by desperate attempts to be seen as no1 fan.You can''t run with the fox and hunt with the hounds.

If you would take Hughes back then it realy does show how far this clubs standards have fallen.

Hammilton had Worthington as his assistant and that certainly worked well didn''t it!

No he''s gone and in spite of Doncasters attempts it''s best you keep your fond memories and not sully them with what would end up as another folly if he came back in any capacity.

[/quote]

Well I kind of disagree with some of that Butler my friend. Money certainly "can''t buy me respect" though.

There is no present board to speak of, just a sozzled trout, a winnie and the third man. And the third man has been quiet all these years but has now taken to the written word. Respect? Not the third man because I have never met the guy. Never seen him anywhere to be honest. Have you met him Butler?

I used to like and respect Munby and Bazza Skipper, they had no friends on here though. They were despised at the time when it was fashionable to replace "Worthington''s" with "Delia''s Barmy". They were football people though, both of them. They were part of a team of people who brought success to a generation of City fans who hadn''t had any before. Everyone had respect for them back then. But football results are a great destroyer of respect.

Worthy was the first to lose the fans respect. The poor guy didn''t grow horns or anything, he just didn''t win enough football matches. Munby and Skipper stood by him so their respect went with his. It''s a strange old world because Worthington, Skipper and Munby did plenty to earn the fans respect but they couldn''t keep it. The Turners, to my knowledge, did nothing to earn the fans respect but never lost it. Did you ever meet them Butler? I never saw them, not once, just like the third man.

So that just leaves the sozzled trout and her winnie. Do they have the respect of the fans? I guess they''ve still got some from me. But not as much as some others. I never replaced "Worthingtons" with "Delia''s Barmy" I still go for the football and not the finance. My interest is the football team not the boardroom, it was then and it is now. I have seen the spiteful side of football fans too many times to be sucked in yet again. Do you remember the "zigger zigger" chants from the Barclay in the 60''s aimed at Geoffrey Watling R.I.P. Butler?

Yes winnie and trout have my respect. They could bail out, they could cut their losses and run like the Newcastle guy. I don''t believe they are hanging on for any selfish reasons. They are cut adrift from the team they had respect for. They, with the third man, are all that''s left. As it stands they are braving it out. But they don''t run with the fox and hunt with the hounds because we are all on the same side.

Yes our standards have fallen. They''ve fallen far enough to welcome Hughes back with open arms. You see every person who has left this club since respect began to be lost has been replaced at least once by an inferior model. And that''s the problem.

 

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''d take Hughes back tomorrow.. who wouldn''t? Do ya reckon Leeds would swap him for Cureton??

Is doing what you consider best for the club enough to always be held in high regard? Or do you have to die first[:O]

 

[/quote]

No you earn that respect. Money does not buy it nor does death.

I think at one stage the present board had a degree of respect from the majority of the fans, that has been thrown away over the past few years, helped in no little way by desperate attempts to be seen as no1 fan.You can''t run with the fox and hunt with the hounds.

If you would take Hughes back then it realy does show how far this clubs standards have fallen.

Hammilton had Worthington as his assistant and that certainly worked well didn''t it!

No he''s gone and in spite of Doncasters attempts it''s best you keep your fond memories and not sully them with what would end up as another folly if he came back in any capacity.

[/quote]

Well I kind of disagree with some of that Butler my friend. Money certainly "can''t buy me respect" though.

There is no present board to speak of, just a sozzled trout, a winnie and the third man. And the third man has been quiet all these years but has now taken to the written word. Respect? Not the third man because I have never met the guy. Never seen him anywhere to be honest. Have you met him Butler?

I used to like and respect Munby and Bazza Skipper, they had no friends on here though. They were despised at the time when it was fashionable to replace "Worthington''s" with "Delia''s Barmy". They were football people though, both of them. They were part of a team of people who brought success to a generation of City fans who hadn''t had any before. Everyone had respect for them back then. But football results are a great destroyer of respect.

Worthy was the first to lose the fans respect. The poor guy didn''t grow horns or anything, he just didn''t win enough football matches. Munby and Skipper stood by him so their respect went with his. It''s a strange old world because Worthington, Skipper and Munby did plenty to earn the fans respect but they couldn''t keep it. The Turners, to my knowledge, did nothing to earn the fans respect but never lost it. Did you ever meet them Butler? I never saw them, not once, just like the third man.

So that just leaves the sozzled trout and her winnie. Do they have the respect of the fans? I guess they''ve still got some from me. But not as much as some others. I never replaced "Worthingtons" with "Delia''s Barmy" I still go for the football and not the finance. My interest is the football team not the boardroom, it was then and it is now. I have seen the spiteful side of football fans too many times to be sucked in yet again. Do you remember the "zigger zigger" chants from the Barclay in the 60''s aimed at Geoffrey Watling R.I.P. Butler?

Yes winnie and trout have my respect. They could bail out, they could cut their losses and run like the Newcastle guy. I don''t believe they are hanging on for any selfish reasons. They are cut adrift from the team they had respect for. They, with the third man, are all that''s left. As it stands they are braving it out. But they don''t run with the fox and hunt with the hounds because we are all on the same side.

Yes our standards have fallen. They''ve fallen far enough to welcome Hughes back with open arms. You see every person who has left this club since respect began to be lost has been replaced at least once by an inferior model. And that''s the problem.

 

[/quote]

A little reported fact is that whoever buys Newcastle - and some Gulf Sultan appears a current frontrunner if you can believe the media[+o(] - may well get a bargain buy at £80m but will also be stuck with clearing off Ashley''s loan of £110m or continuing to pay the interest on it.  He has not, at the time of writing, written that bit off.

This end it does seem that the sozzled old trout has made a mess of things but at least your end you are not currently lumbered with £110m nor the interest (as I understand, they having stupidly converted their miniscule £11m or whatever it is into shares rather than a loan with interest).  On that basis it looks quite good that they don''t have real money when it''s time to say goodbye.

The sozzled old trout will eventually run, one assumes, for whatever she gets for her shares whereas the cannier Ashley was smart enough to cast iron that bit of his investment.  Loss it is but not subject to a share price whim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

Respect eh Nutty. As Butler says, you have to earn that, and in the boardroom it will be a long time, if ever, before an awful lot of supporters regain any respect for those in charge of the club. To earn respect you have to gain trust, and let''s face it, that, for the current three, is nigh on impossible as of now.

To earn back respect they have to demonstrate (and that means far more than a few ''promises'' in the local press) that they have acknowledged the mistakes by taking some decisive actions.

Each of us would like this demonstrated in different ways, to a certain extent. For me a good start would be as follows.

Firstly some signs the club is moving forward. The first thing they do is sacrifice Munby and Doncaster. An obvious move, but it''s hardly changed much has it, aside from the annual saving of the CE''s salary. Munby is still in the shadows enabling a failing and too small for comfort board to operate. Good business practice - or more of the same. You decide.

New people on board? We wait with bated breath. I would like to see some additional personnel appointed with NO former connection to Delia, therefore with no reason to prop up her personal whims. I would also like some assurances re the Keith Harris issue. Is his company looking for investment, or a buyer? This has never been made clear.

The rebate. Well what can you say about that? We have all said plenty, but for me it was nothing more than a guilt trip laid on the fans. Another of those wonderful ''true supporter'' divisions which will be used for years to come.

Bryan Gunn - was that decision wise - was it rewarding failure, keeping on someone who wouldn''t rock the boat or keeping faith with a true green and yellow. Again, you decide and base your opinion on just how much trust and respect you have for the board.

And the fans. Just how much respect do the board have for the fans? Going by the past five years or so, I would say very little.

So, why are Delia and Michael hanging on then Nutty? For the good of the club or themselves. Again, it''s divided thinking and will only become united thinking when they have proved themselves trustworthy and capable of leading our club out of the sorry mess their 13 year tenure has created.

I just hope they do no further damage and can find replacements, though the likelihood of that (and fitting their exacting criteria and price) remains an exceedingly bleak prospect.

[The Butler 0]

Yes winnie and trout have my respect. They could bail out, they could cut their losses and run like the Newcastle guy. I don''t believe they are hanging on for any selfish reasons. They are cut adrift from the team they had respect for. They, with the third man, are all that''s left. As it stands they are braving it out. But they don''t run with the fox and hunt with the hounds because we are all on the same side.

No they never had my respect as you know Nutty, they never earnt it.

They hung Roger and Doncaster out to dry, they are the ones "cutting their support they had respect for". Lets give the "fans" a sacrifice then they might quieten down!!

Hanging on, of course they are, they can''t run, it may or may not be the money,but is a sure as hell the reputation. How would it look for her adoring public if Delia was seen to "leave the bridge" of the sinking ship!People tend to forget that they have lived in the limelight for a long time that''s a drug that''s hard to replace.

Bailing out would be one B level celebrity status gone,she might even have to go on Celebrity Big Brother or something equally as nasty!

Delia has tried the fox bit, sitting in the crowd with all her admirers around her lapping up the adoration. It does not work, the Newcastle guy also found that out. Strange parallels with our club at present!

 

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="The Butler"]

No they never had my respect as you know Nutty, they never earnt it.

They hung Roger and Doncaster out to dry, they are the ones "cutting their support they had respect for". Lets give the "fans" a sacrifice then they might quieten down!!

Hanging on, of course they are, they can''t run, it may or may not be the money,but is a sure as hell the reputation. How would it look for her adoring public if Delia was seen to "leave the bridge" of the sinking ship!People tend to forget that they have lived in the limelight for a long time that''s a drug that''s hard to replace.

Bailing out would be one B level celebrity status gone,she might even have to go on Celebrity Big Brother or something equally as nasty!

Delia has tried the fox bit, sitting in the crowd with all her admirers around her lapping up the adoration. It does not work, the Newcastle guy also found that out. Strange parallels with our club at present!

 

[/quote]

I thought everyone was shouting from the roof tops for Doncaster and Munby to go. Just like they did Roeder before them and Grant before him and Skipper before him and Worthy before him. Each time it was what the fans wanted. Was it for the good of the club? You decide Butler. Was Worthy-Grant-Roeder-Gunn for the good of the club? Was Skipper-Turners-nobody for the good of the club? Was Doncaster - nobody & Munby - nobody for the good of the club? And will the sozzled troud & winnie - nobody be for the good of the club?

Do you really think "the trout''s" celebrity status is anything to do with Norwich City? I''m afraid that''s just not the case. If she is hounded out of the club it will make national news, not because of NCFC but because of Delia Smith. I would take a guess that in the wider scheme of things the trout is a million times more known than other football owners. How many football owners do you know Butler? You think our club keeps Delia in the limelight? I reckon it puts her in the shade. She has a much wider "adoring public" away from football. That''s one reason why Cam hangs around you know[:-*][:O]

Why can''t her hanging on be anything to do with loyalty? Why can''t you accept that she is a fan and and loves the club like you and I? You''re wrong about sitting with the fans with all her admirers lapping up adoration. Have you seen her do it? Or just seen the pictures from Stamford Bridge and the like that the TV companies like to show. The TV companies aren''t at Stockport on a Tuesday night in the middle of the petrol protests but "the sozzled trout" is there, with her bottle of panda pop like the hundred or so others. There was no glory, no adoring public, you don''t get them at those games you know. The fans at Stockport on a Tuesday night are the very last people who can be accused of being celebrity followers. This was in the Hammy days and they let her know in no uncertain terms their feelings. But she braved it out, and City actually won which was a rarity on their travels, so we all went home happy. It''s like catchphrase Butler, I say what I see and not what the  media choose to report.

I have no confidence in what''s left of the board. Unless some of the people we got out are replaced by people of at least the same quality I believe we will sink further. I can''t see how anyone can have confidence in any part of our club as it stands. But I am not going to compromise my beliefs and make stuff up to attack them. God knows the present situation is surely enough to be going on with.

 

[The Butler 0]

Again you miss the point Nutty.

She is inexplicably now linked with the club.

Oh Norwich City that''s Delia Smith isn''t it, is the standard statement. If she were to leave the club "in the lurch" it would do her image immense harm. That''s the point. She linked herself,for what ever reason and now she has to find a way out that will not damage her reputation. I can''t see it hurting the clubs reputation.

I did not say it kept her in the limelight, I said she lives/lived in the limelight, long before she was involved with this club. Damage that limelight/image and you damage the woman, as I said celebrity is a drug that not many celebrities want to give up.

I have never "made stuff up to attack her" as you are suggesting, I don''t have to, she has done enough damage to the club without adding any fiction to it.

Your use of derogatory names for her and others I assume you are taking from some other sources as I do not go in for those type of histrionics.

For every wet Stockport there is another day/night of Delias barmy army it cuts both ways.

Fan yes I suppose she is, from her husbands introduction. If that is the case then they should be looking very closely at what is best for the club and staggering on in their present condition,in no way can be accepted, as you rightly say, as best for the club.

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="The Butler"]

I have never "made stuff up to attack her" as you are suggesting, I don''t have to, she has done enough damage to the club without adding any fiction to it.

[/quote]

Hanging on, of course they are, they can''t run, it may or may not be the money,but is a sure as hell the reputation. How would it look for her adoring public if Delia was seen to "leave the bridge" of the sinking ship!People tend to forget that they have lived in the limelight for a long time that''s a drug that''s hard to replace.

Is that fact then[:^)] It couldn''t possibly be for well intended reasons then[:O]

I know you don''t use derogatory names for her and others. It''s what others do and it amuses me so allow me a bit of fun won''t you? They did the same with Worthy. It seems to be a trait that if posters can somehow de-humanise their targets they are more comfortable with the personal attacks.

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

I have never "made stuff up to attack her" as you are suggesting, I don''t have to, she has done enough damage to the club without adding any fiction to it.

[/quote]

Hanging on, of course they are, they can''t run, it may or may not be the money,but is a sure as hell the reputation. How would it look for her adoring public if Delia was seen to "leave the bridge" of the sinking ship!People tend to forget that they have lived in the limelight for a long time that''s a drug that''s hard to replace.

Is that fact then[:^)] It couldn''t possibly be for well intended reasons then[:O]

I know you don''t use derogatory names for her and others. It''s what others do and it amuses me so allow me a bit of fun won''t you? They did the same with Worthy. It seems to be a trait that if posters can somehow de-humanise their targets they are more comfortable with the personal attacks.

 

[/quote]

What well intended reasons would that be then?

Ok lets give her every benefit of any doubt. She/they do not want any money back. They are not worried about their reputation/celebrity status.

They like the criticism they are receiving,they thrive on the failure they have made of the club. They are happy that the people they have relied upon have gone/been got rid of.

All the restaurants are fully fitted out and there is no room for any more without altering the changeing rooms.

They have appointed a manager, against fans wishes, with no experience except failure, to lead our non existant team

They are looking forward (as we all are) as fans to an immense season in Division three (in old money).

Can''t think of anything else they are hanging around for can you?

So I think my reasoning is reasonably sound not derogatory and giving them the benefit of believing their financial statements.

Oh and I prefer my trout with almonds(nutty)[:D]

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="The Butler"][

What well intended reasons would that be then?

Ok lets give her every benefit of any doubt. She/they do not want any money back. They are not worried about their reputation/celebrity status.

They like the criticism they are receiving,they thrive on the failure they have made of the club. They are happy that the people they have relied upon have gone/been got rid of.

All the restaurants are fully fitted out and there is no room for any more without altering the changeing rooms.

They have appointed a manager, against fans wishes, with no experience except failure, to lead our non existant team

They are looking forward (as we all are) as fans to an immense season in Division three (in old money).

Can''t think of anything else they are hanging around for can you?

So I think my reasoning is reasonably sound not derogatory and giving them the benefit of believing their financial statements.

Oh and I prefer my trout with almonds(nutty)[:D]

[/quote]

Do you believe they are deliberately setting out to destroy the club?

It''s not about the benefit of any doubt, it''s about whether you believe them. They have both said they don''t expect to see the money again - do you believe them?

Walking away would harm their reputation/celebrity status but it would also harm their conscience. Do you do things because you believe them to be right or do you do them to save your reputation?

How many times do I have to say I have no confidence in what''s left of the board or any part of this club. If we all concentrated on where we are now we might get some unity on here.

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

No they never had my respect as you know Nutty, they never earnt it.

They hung Roger and Doncaster out to dry, they are the ones "cutting their support they had respect for". Lets give the "fans" a sacrifice then they might quieten down!!

Hanging on, of course they are, they can''t run, it may or may not be the money,but is a sure as hell the reputation. How would it look for her adoring public if Delia was seen to "leave the bridge" of the sinking ship!People tend to forget that they have lived in the limelight for a long time that''s a drug that''s hard to replace.

Bailing out would be one B level celebrity status gone,she might even have to go on Celebrity Big Brother or something equally as nasty!

Delia has tried the fox bit, sitting in the crowd with all her admirers around her lapping up the adoration. It does not work, the Newcastle guy also found that out. Strange parallels with our club at present!

 

[/quote]

I thought everyone was shouting from the roof tops for Doncaster and Munby to go. Just like they did Roeder before them and Grant before him and Skipper before him and Worthy before him. Each time it was what the fans wanted. Was it for the good of the club? You decide Butler. Was Worthy-Grant-Roeder-Gunn for the good of the club? Was Skipper-Turners-nobody for the good of the club? Was Doncaster - nobody & Munby - nobody for the good of the club? And will the sozzled troud & winnie - nobody be for the good of the club?

Do you really think "the trout''s" celebrity status is anything to do with Norwich City? I''m afraid that''s just not the case. If she is hounded out of the club it will make national news, not because of NCFC but because of Delia Smith. I would take a guess that in the wider scheme of things the trout is a million times more known than other football owners. How many football owners do you know Butler? You think our club keeps Delia in the limelight? I reckon it puts her in the shade. She has a much wider "adoring public" away from football. That''s one reason why Cam hangs around you know[:-*][:O]

Why can''t her hanging on be anything to do with loyalty? Why can''t you accept that she is a fan and and loves the club like you and I? You''re wrong about sitting with the fans with all her admirers lapping up adoration. Have you seen her do it? Or just seen the pictures from Stamford Bridge and the like that the TV companies like to show. The TV companies aren''t at Stockport on a Tuesday night in the middle of the petrol protests but "the sozzled trout" is there, with her bottle of panda pop like the hundred or so others. There was no glory, no adoring public, you don''t get them at those games you know. The fans at Stockport on a Tuesday night are the very last people who can be accused of being celebrity followers. This was in the Hammy days and they let her know in no uncertain terms their feelings. But she braved it out, and City actually won which was a rarity on their travels, so we all went home happy. It''s like catchphrase Butler, I say what I see and not what the  media choose to report.

I have no confidence in what''s left of the board. Unless some of the people we got out are replaced by people of at least the same quality I believe we will sink further. I can''t see how anyone can have confidence in any part of our club as it stands. But I am not going to compromise my beliefs and make stuff up to attack them. God knows the present situation is surely enough to be going on with.

 

[/quote]

Well you seem to have embellished that particular point Nutty.  Where does your evidence come from to support this?

I know that the only one out of the above that I was calling for to be shown the door was Worthy and while I believe that he was a reasonably good manager I still believe that the time had passed for him to move on some considerable time before he did.

In hindsight that should of been directed at the boardroom and the majority shareholders, so hands up maybe I called that wrong to some extent.

I have not called for any of the others to go (even though I do not believe that any of them added anything of value to NCFC) due to the fact that none of these people are the ones who are ultimately responsible for our downfall.  Until we have change at the very top then our club is only heading in one direction.  Not that I am saying it is a cast iron guarantee that things will get any better upon their departure, but it has to be worth the risk of us taking that gamble now surely???

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="Smudger"]

 

Well you seem to have embellished that particular point Nutty.  Where does your evidence come from to support this?

I know that the only one out of the above that I was calling for to be shown the door was Worthy and while I believe that he was a reasonably good manager I still believe that the time had passed for him to move on some considerable time before he did.

In hindsight that should of been directed at the boardroom and the majority shareholders, so hands up maybe I called that wrong to some extent.

I have not called for any of the others to go (even though I do not believe that any of them added anything of value to NCFC) due to the fact that none of these people are the ones who are ultimately responsible for our downfall.  Until we have change at the very top then our club is only heading in one direction.  Not that I am saying it is a cast iron guarantee that things will get any better upon their departure, but it has to be worth the risk of us taking that gamble now surely???

[/quote]

Embellished[:^)] Have you swallowed a dictionary[:O]

Where does my evidence come from? Howabout my own eyes and ears[8-|]

What poart of my post do you disagree with[:^)]

 

 

[The Butler 0]

Do you believe they are deliberately setting out to destroy the club? No only fools would set out to destroy what they own,just incompetent.

It''s not about the benefit of any doubt, it''s about whether you believe them. They have both said they don''t expect to see the money again - do you believe them? No I don''t, nothing they have done so far remotely makes me believe that statement. They are hardly likely to say ,in an interview on radio/tv, "of course we want all our money back" are they. Image again. If they didn''t want something back they would have gone by now.Just another Delia generalisation like the 11million?

Walking away would harm their reputation/celebrity status but it would also harm their conscience. Do you do things because you believe them to be right or do you do them to save your reputation? You are now a party to her conscience, I thought that was why she went to daily confession, or are you taking that[:D] Father Nutty now theres a thought!If as you say they want nothing back, why would it hurt their conscience? What I believe to be right may appear the opposite to someone else. I do what I think is right, don''t you?

How many times do I have to say I have no confidence in what''s left of the board or any part of this club. If we all concentrated on where we are now we might get some unity on here.Seems you are trying to convince yourself as I believed you posts ago.[;)]

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="The Butler"]

Do you believe they are deliberately setting out to destroy the club? No only fools would set out to destroy what they own,just incompetent.

It''s not about the benefit of any doubt, it''s about whether you believe them. They have both said they don''t expect to see the money again - do you believe them? No I don''t, nothing they have done so far remotely makes me believe that statement. They are hardly likely to say ,in an interview on radio/tv, "of course we want all our money back" are they. Image again. If they didn''t want something back they would have gone by now.Just another Delia generalisation like the 11million?

Walking away would harm their reputation/celebrity status but it would also harm their conscience. Do you do things because you believe them to be right or do you do them to save your reputation? You are now a party to her conscience, I thought that was why she went to daily confession, or are you taking that[:D] Father Nutty now theres a thought!If as you say they want nothing back, why would it hurt their conscience? What I believe to be right may appear the opposite to someone else. I do what I think is right, don''t you?

How many times do I have to say I have no confidence in what''s left of the board or any part of this club. If we all concentrated on where we are now we might get some unity on here.Seems you are trying to convince yourself as I believed you posts ago.[;)]

 

 

[/quote]

Are you this suspicious of everyone in life Butler? Do you believe everyone has an ulterior motive, saying one thing and doing another? Or is it just the sozzled trout and her winnie[:^)] Is the 11m not right then? Is that a lie too? We been here before, you show me where they have lied to me and I''ll make Smudger look like a pussy cat.

Yes of course I do what I think is right. I don''t do things just because it would save my reputation. Neither do you. So why do you suppose the sozzled trout would? Why would she be so different to you and I? If she really is a wicked, dishonest and selfish person the evidence of it needs to be brought into the public domain sooner rather then later.

Bless you my son[*-)]

 

 

[The Butler 0]

Are you this suspicious of everyone in life Butler? Do you believe everyone has an ulterior motive, saying one thing and doing another? Or is it just the sozzled trout and her winnie Is the 11m not right then? Is that a lie too? We been here before, you show me where they have lied to me and I''ll make Smudger look like a pussy cat.

Yes of course I do what I think is right. I don''t do things just because it would save my reputation. Neither do you. So why do you suppose the sozzled trout would? Why would she be so different to you and I? If she really is a wicked, dishonest and selfish person the evidence of it needs to be brought into the public domain sooner rather then later.

Bless you my son

People have to earn my trust Nutty, the older I have got the more I find less to trust. Sad but that''s fact.

Not everyone has an ulterior motive, but again my experience is where money is concerned of a level that is important to the individual, then yes they usualy have.

The 11mil I think (I would like some further help here from someone) was at the last count about 8.8. but I never did take the 11 figure as fact, as I have said it was a throw away line and I don''t think ever meant to be exact.

Her reputation has been carefully built over many many years, do you think they would jeopardize it willingly? That''s her most saleable commodity.

I don''t think I have said she is wicked or dishonest(in the normal accepted terms of the word) selfish possibly, but that''s what being a TV star is all about isn''t it.

You have to accept that they are now backed into a corner, they have money and reputation at stake (a very large stake on both fronts) of course,it''s human nature, they will do anything to preserve them.

That''s my perhaps cynical opinion.

[nutty nigel 7,536]

I''m glad I''m not a cynic then Butler.

Reputations aren''t carefully built. They grow out of deeds over time. If they are carefully built then they are almost certainly fake.

 

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m glad I''m not a cynic then Butler.

Reputations aren''t carefully built. They grow out of deeds over time. If they are carefully built then they are almost certainly fake.

 

 

[/quote]

By george he''s finally got it!

[Barclay_Boy 0]

Nutty if only you could get over your Worthington fetish! Hand on heart I didn''t ever utter a Worthy out chant, the same as I never uttered a Walker out chant! (Nor for that matter did I chant Roeder out)The fans regularly pick on the wrong targets. I will never forget the look of disgust on Rob Green''s face as he turned to the Barcaly during a session of Worthy Out chants. You can''t keep on blaming everything on the fact that City fans got rid of Worthington. It was out of pure frustration, and unfortunatley most of the fans fail to understnad the true cause, which is being let down time and again by succesive Boards. However I have a feeling that at long last the majority may be seeing the light. If we don''t sign some talented players and if we don''t start the season by winning the majority of games then I think the fans will turn on Delia big style. And that will have been long overdue. I would like to see "Delia''s Restaraunt" demolished brick by brick and despatched back to Stowmarket, where it belongs

[corbs 0]

Nutty wrote ''How many football owners do you know Butler? You think our club keeps Delia in the limelight? I reckon it puts her in the shade. She has a much wider "adoring public" away from football''.  Spot on.

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="corbs"]Nutty wrote ''How many football owners do you know Butler? You think our club keeps Delia in the limelight? I reckon it puts her in the shade. She has a much wider "adoring public" away from football''.  Spot on.[/quote]

If you have any sort of news tracker for her I will guarantee that 95 per cent of messages in any week will concern cookery/catering, her books, recipes, features and very, very few Norwich City references. 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Smudger"]

 

Well you seem to have embellished that particular point Nutty.  Where does your evidence come from to support this?

I know that the only one out of the above that I was calling for to be shown the door was Worthy and while I believe that he was a reasonably good manager I still believe that the time had passed for him to move on some considerable time before he did.

In hindsight that should of been directed at the boardroom and the majority shareholders, so hands up maybe I called that wrong to some extent.

I have not called for any of the others to go (even though I do not believe that any of them added anything of value to NCFC) due to the fact that none of these people are the ones who are ultimately responsible for our downfall.  Until we have change at the very top then our club is only heading in one direction.  Not that I am saying it is a cast iron guarantee that things will get any better upon their departure, but it has to be worth the risk of us taking that gamble now surely???

[/quote]

Embellished[:^)] Have you swallowed a dictionary[:O]

Where does my evidence come from? Howabout my own eyes and ears[8-|]

What poart of my post do you disagree with[:^)]

 

 

[/quote]

Well if you changed "everybody shouting from the roof tops" to "most people" then I may agree with what you had said, however like I said you embellished the point.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="corbs"]Nutty wrote ''How many football owners do you know Butler? You think our club keeps Delia in the limelight? I reckon it puts her in the shade. She has a much wider "adoring public" away from football''.  Spot on.[/quote]

If you have any sort of news tracker for her I will guarantee that 95 per cent of messages in any week will concern cookery/catering, her books, recipes, features and very, very few Norwich City references. 

[/quote]

But that was never the point.

The effect on her long built reputation should she be seen to drop "little old Norwich" her football club in the brown stuff would be very damaging.

She may have a large following away from football but the link is inexplicably there.

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="corbs"]Nutty wrote ''How many football owners do you know Butler? You think our club keeps Delia in the limelight? I reckon it puts her in the shade. She has a much wider "adoring public" away from football''.  Spot on.[/quote]

If you have any sort of news tracker for her I will guarantee that 95 per cent of messages in any week will concern cookery/catering, her books, recipes, features and very, very few Norwich City references. 

[/quote]

But that was never the point.

The effect on her long built reputation should she be seen to drop "little old Norwich" her football club in the brown stuff would be very damaging.

She may have a large following away from football but the link is inexplicably there.

[/quote]

It is not an argument that could be proven until such a thing happened but, in my opinion, the majority of her support and reputation falls slap bang among the residents of Middle England whose generic view of football fans I could take a good guess at.  Of course both of us would really have to know the specifics to take it much further but my own opinion is that it would entirely depend on the specifics of the occasion - how it happened. 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="corbs"]Nutty wrote ''How many football owners do you know Butler? You think our club keeps Delia in the limelight? I reckon it puts her in the shade. She has a much wider "adoring public" away from football''.  Spot on.[/quote]

If you have any sort of news tracker for her I will guarantee that 95 per cent of messages in any week will concern cookery/catering, her books, recipes, features and very, very few Norwich City references. 

[/quote]

But that was never the point.

The effect on her long built reputation should she be seen to drop "little old Norwich" her football club in the brown stuff would be very damaging.

She may have a large following away from football but the link is inexplicably there.

[/quote]

It is not an argument that could be proven until such a thing happened but, in my opinion, the majority of her support and reputation falls slap bang among the residents of Middle England whose generic view of football fans I could take a good guess at.  Of course both of us would really have to know the specifics to take it much further but my own opinion is that it would entirely depend on the specifics of the occasion - how it happened. 

[/quote]

Agreed Cam, but Delia has brought up her links with NCFC at every available oportunity. Radio/TV interviews, her cookery progs at times go behind the scenes at Carrow road etc etc.

If it was percieved that she had not acted in the appropriate manner then some of those "mythical" middle England types might just  begin to doubt that holier than thou persona.

The half time rant that is used at ever available opportunity did not help the image another knock might just tip the scales. Bigger figures that her have found, with the help of the ever ready media, that they are not totally immune.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]

The half time rant that is used at ever available opportunity did

not help the image another knock might just tip the scales. Bigger

figures that her have found, with the help of the ever ready media,

that they are not totally immune.

[/quote]ok, let''s say you find a way to tip the scales.  What happens then ?Do you have 2 million a year to pump into the club ?  Can you re-negotiate or act as guarantor for 20 million plus of bank debt ?  You''d have to be an almighty supporter of any club to find that kind of money. Either that, or stupidly rich, or just stupid.Do you know of anyone that could ?Peter Cullum was the best hope, and he proved to be a mirage.What were they saying about Gordon Brown tonight on the news ?  Others were knocking him, but he''s standing there, and dealing with the issues.  Who do we have among our following that would do the same for us to the extent that Delia MWJ and Foulger have ?

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="corbs"]Nutty wrote ''How many football owners do you know Butler? You think our club keeps Delia in the limelight? I reckon it puts her in the shade. She has a much wider "adoring public" away from football''.  Spot on.[/quote]

If you have any sort of news tracker for her I will guarantee that 95 per cent of messages in any week will concern cookery/catering, her books, recipes, features and very, very few Norwich City references. 

[/quote]

But that was never the point.

The effect on her long built reputation should she be seen to drop "little old Norwich" her football club in the brown stuff would be very damaging.

She may have a large following away from football but the link is inexplicably there.

[/quote]

It is not an argument that could be proven until such a thing happened but, in my opinion, the majority of her support and reputation falls slap bang among the residents of Middle England whose generic view of football fans I could take a good guess at.  Of course both of us would really have to know the specifics to take it much further but my own opinion is that it would entirely depend on the specifics of the occasion - how it happened. 

[/quote]

Agreed Cam, but Delia has brought up her links with NCFC at every available oportunity. Radio/TV interviews, her cookery progs at times go behind the scenes at Carrow road etc etc.

If it was percieved that she had not acted in the appropriate manner then some of those "mythical" middle England types might just  begin to doubt that holier than thou persona.

The half time rant that is used at ever available opportunity did not help the image another knock might just tip the scales. Bigger figures that her have found, with the help of the ever ready media, that they are not totally immune.

[/quote]

Yes but this is one where you can safely blame the Press.  There''s a natural appeal for linking the 5th best selling author with a family friendly (as it stands) football club and she would inevitably find herself painted in that light regardless of whether she initiated it or not.  That is not saying she didn''t but it is saying that it would have played that way anyway this end.  The only way I can get a Norwich City story into a national currently is with Delia Smith in the intro.  In my honest view it is six of one and half a dozen of the other.  The go behind the scenes stuff is simply that it is "different" stuff - ANY football club would do if there was the link.  If she drove preserved buses or was a fireman on the North Norfolk Railway they''d be there, too.

Inappropriate manner - if you mean something illegal - would be vastly different.  But, as I see it, we are at the moment talking about people who have taken on a football club and seen it go tits up for the time being. I don''t personally think Middle England (which is not as mythical as you suggest) would currently blink an eyelid. 

All hypothetical in the end. 

 

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]

The half time rant that is used at ever available opportunity did

not help the image another knock might just tip the scales. Bigger

figures that her have found, with the help of the ever ready media,

that they are not totally immune.

[/quote]ok, let''s say you find a way to tip the scales.  What happens then ?Do you have 2 million a year to pump into the club ?  Can you re-negotiate or act as guarantor for 20 million plus of bank debt ?  You''d have to be an almighty supporter of any club to find that kind of money. Either that, or stupidly rich, or just stupid.Do you know of anyone that could ?Peter Cullum was the best hope, and he proved to be a mirage.What were they saying about Gordon Brown tonight on the news ?  Others were knocking him, but he''s standing there, and dealing with the issues.  Who do we have among our following that would do the same for us to the extent that Delia MWJ and Foulger have ?[/quote]

You''re right Thank God for Delia and Michael, without whom we wouldn''t be where are today, looking to consolidate in Div 3 with a great Mgr and lots of top players. Whatever would we have done without their skillfull management of the club?

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]

The half time rant that is used at ever available opportunity did not help the image another knock might just tip the scales. Bigger figures that her have found, with the help of the ever ready media, that they are not totally immune.

[/quote]

ok, let''s say you find a way to tip the scales.  What happens then ?

Do you have 2 million a year to pump into the club ?  Can you re-negotiate or act as guarantor for 20 million plus of bank debt ?  You''d have to be an almighty supporter of any club to find that kind of money. Either that, or stupidly rich, or just stupid.

Do you know of anyone that could ?

Peter Cullum was the best hope, and he proved to be a mirage.

What were they saying about Gordon Brown tonight on the news ?  Others were knocking him, but he''s standing there, and dealing with the issues.  Who do we have among our following that would do the same for us to the extent that Delia MWJ and Foulger have ?
[/quote] You''re right Thank God for Delia and Michael, without whom we wouldn''t be where are today, looking to consolidate in Div 3 with a great Mgr and lots of top players. Whatever would we have done without their skillfull management of the club?[/quote]

But the point is you have no answers,............ yes its so simple to say........ Delia out............ but then what?

Admin?  Liquidation?

People act as if it couldn''t get worse.

You need to think a few moves ahead.

I could actually understand the logic if there were someone waiting in the wings to take over the club.

The clue phone is ringing........................ there isn''t

 

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="Barclay_Boy"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]

The half time rant that is used at ever available opportunity did not help the image another knock might just tip the scales. Bigger figures that her have found, with the help of the ever ready media, that they are not totally immune.

[/quote]

ok, let''s say you find a way to tip the scales.  What happens then ?

Do you have 2 million a year to pump into the club ?  Can you re-negotiate or act as guarantor for 20 million plus of bank debt ?  You''d have to be an almighty supporter of any club to find that kind of money. Either that, or stupidly rich, or just stupid.

Do you know of anyone that could ?

Peter Cullum was the best hope, and he proved to be a mirage.

What were they saying about Gordon Brown tonight on the news ?  Others were knocking him, but he''s standing there, and dealing with the issues.  Who do we have among our following that would do the same for us to the extent that Delia MWJ and Foulger have ?
[/quote] You''re right Thank God for Delia and Michael, without whom we wouldn''t be where are today, looking to consolidate in Div 3 with a great Mgr and lots of top players. Whatever would we have done without their skillfull management of the club?[/quote]

But the point is you have no answers,............ yes its so simple to say........ Delia out............ but then what?

Admin?  Liquidation?

People act as if it couldn''t get worse.

You need to think a few moves ahead.

I could actually understand the logic if there were someone waiting in the wings to take over the club.

The clue phone is ringing........................ there isn''t

 

 

[/quote]

The discussion was about why she stays and the logic or not behind it.

The debt is large and under a guarantee but at 20mil DS could not repay it as reports put her wealth below that.

So I assume anyone of reasonable means could continue that/or re negotiate if they wanted to.

I would,like many, like to see them now leave with heads held high, the longer the present situation continues the less chance there is for that to happen.

Investment/buy out should have been sort sooner, they are not good at recognising the correct timescales of things.

Now we have recession and the money is a little scarce to find, it is effecting us all.

The only choice I think we have is to hope that they see sense and actively seek a buyer, not just investment.

To that end a degree of pressure from the fans is needed,just to keep their minds concentrated!

In the end the club needs to regain it''s pride together with reuniting it''s divided fan base. I cannot see now how the present regime can accomplish this.

[Soldier on 160]

USA, you like me have no idea what is waiting in the wings.  My feeling is that if Delia & Michael get realistic there is a buyer out there for this football club.  If Delia and co continue to turn loans into shares increasing their majority and make ridiculous demands from perspective buyers then know we wont make a sale.

Do Delia & Michaewl want to sell or do they want cosy investors prepared to be puppets.  Obviously the Turners wouldnt play ball and walked - full credit to them.

As soon as anybody proposes an aggressive takeover the cook is in trouble.

Her time is up and all we can do is thank her for third division football and an ever growing debt

 

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="Soldier on"]Obviously the Turners wouldnt play ball and walked - full credit to them.[/quote]

What evidence have you that they "would not play ball"? As not a word has been said about the reason for their departure you have no idea why they left.