"You've let us down again"

[First Wazzock 902]

So... if I do make one is it "Board Out", or "Sack The Board" [^o)]

[Southern Canary 0]

Board Out...

The board can''t be sacked, when there is nobody lined up to replace them.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

May take something of similar ilk. Very different circumstances to the Wolves fans who were watching their team in a playoff semi!

Even if we stay up on Sunday i do not regard it as an acceptable season or anything for which anyone should get any plaudits.

[/quote]

It seems absolutely incredible to me that fans who feel so strongly against the board are posting on here what they may do. Back in 2006, not even 12 months after our relegation, we had Worthy Out web site, stickers, banners, organised marches, organised petitions, a public meeting at St Andrews Hall and loud and comparitively well attended protests inside and outside the ground. Now after 4 seasons of decline it''s "I may take a banner"! I''m not having a pop at you Jim but can you explain it?

 [/quote]

Worthy was something that people felt they could do something about.  People who would make a fuss realise that doing so would probably be counter-productive.

[/quote]

How can it be counter-productive once we have been relegated on Sunday????

[ca 1]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I beg to differ Blah. I reckon there''s nobody prepared to lead the protest this time around. Plenty of followers mind, porobably as many as before, no leader though.[/quote]

 

Thats the problem Nutty, there are lots of people who want to do something constructive but you need a team of the right sort of people to organise/lead them and thats a time consuming job .

 

[Badger 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It seems absolutely incredible to me that fans who feel so strongly against the board are posting on here what they may do. Back in 2006, not even 12 months after our relegation, we had Worthy Out web site, stickers, banners, organised marches, organised petitions, a public meeting at St Andrews Hall and loud and comparitively well attended protests inside and outside the ground. Now after 4 seasons of decline it''s "I may take a banner"! I''m not having a pop at you Jim but can you explain it?

[/quote]1. Because we have had all the simple solutions before - starting with "Get rid of Chase" - which I joined - but it has hardly delivered has it? After previous experiences, many are a little suspicious of the simplistic analysis and solutions offered by most.2. The cretinous behaviour of some of those that want rid of the Smiths. Calling the majority of other fans "sheep;" saying that the problem with NCFC is that there are too many women, children, old people, middle classes etc just alienates lots of potential support for any protest campaign. More recently getting rid of Worthington was going to make everything ok. I think people are just a little suspicious of the "anything is better than this" line.If any protest is to be successful, it needs more inclusive and intelligent leadership, which aims to rally supporters together rather than being divisive and outlines some form of credible alternative, rather than it will be the solution to all our problems.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Badger,what you say is true up to a point,but would only be completely valid if things,in the main,were going OK(ie we''d just had one bad season "blip"). But that''s not the case is it? The current regime have been in situ for many years now,during which they have presided over a steady decline. You could argue that 2003-5 was just a "blip " of success,in a sea of mediocrity and spiralling down. Many of their decisions have been "simplistic" (disastrous managerial appointments,quick-fix player recruitment,the lack of emphasis on youth development etc etc).

 

Of course I see that if nobody is prepared to come in and invest,the possibility of "getting rid of the Smiths" is not there,but,please don''t blame us,the fans, for being simplistic. Lay that blame at the door of those really in control(sic).

[kdncfc 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="1st Wazzock"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="1st Wazzock"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

Even if we stay up on Sunday i do not regard it as an acceptable season or anything for which anyone should get any plaudits.

[/quote]

I think Nutty, that the placid people of Norwich have reached their breaking point.

[/quote]

I think many did a long time ago. But they have continually looked for leadership. Not just Smudger turning up outside the ground when we lose. Proper leadership. Why do you think it hasn''t happened Wazzy? The websites, the St. Annies public meeting, the posters, banners and flyers, the organised protests and marches - why haven''t they happened?

 

[/quote]

I can''t answer that, it amazed me (and City Angel0 that so many fans went home after Mondays fiasco and didn''t protest.

Perhaps the straw has now broken the camels back, only time will tell.

[/quote]

The obvious answer to that is that going home is what they wanted to do. And since then the focus of those who did protest has been those other fans instead of what the protest was about.

I still believe there would have been hundreds there if the protest against Delia (and lets face it thats what it is) had any proper leadership.

 

[/quote]

I think you''d be talking in terms of thousands if it was properly organised nutty.

[gazzathegreat 0]

I will try Nutty.

IMO, having experienced some of the reaction of the, shall we say, more pro board fans of our club, it has been a big wake up call to me. My own very long standing group of city friends/family are probably all on the anti side, if you have to define things. Since seeing and hearing from the other viewpoint I have had to concede that there are an awful lot of fans who really can''t see what the board has done wrong. For lots of reasons I guess, and some of these fans are not as long term as you and me, indeed due to age and other circumstances they have become fans since Delia joined the board or even later during our playoff season.

IMO a crucial part of a supporters'' life if the understanding of a clubs'' history. If you have indeed been a part of that yourself you will, no doubt, have a different viewpoint to those, who, for no fault of their own, have only known the board in it''s present form.

Why don''t we all go on a mass protest now? Because simply I think many of us are not convinced it will resolve anything other than air our frustrations. I am not saying I will never protest again, but I will know if I feel the need to.

Last time we had major protests (and I mean the Chase Out movement) we didn''t have the benefit of the internet, or even mobiles, I can''t really remember hours and hours of discussion about the club, except on matchdays. Things were more immediate and spontaneous then. And, I add this is my opinion only, a greater sense of anger was felt against the board (Chase) at the loss of O''Neill and the decline of the club, plus the selling of the better players. I cried when Sutton and Fox went, I didn''t even react to the news of Fotheringham''s pay off.

Added to that, as already touched on, the make up of the larger supporter base is completely different. And protesting wasn''t a pleasure, anything but. Spat on, abused by other city fans, jostled by police, you know it all Nutty.

I thought my world was ending when standing outside the ground every week during the Chase protests, sadly it was just episode one of a to be long running saga of spats and confrontation in its many guises between fans and the people running the club.

The board have got rid of many managers, not all due to our protesting however. The board however is more of a slow burn. Shouting outside the ground is not enough. I am sure a meeting such as St Andrews'' Hall will come again, along with other debates. It will be a long haul Nutty, and I am sure a few shocks and surprises are to be had along the way, but change the club''s thinking and the way they run it we must. However it''s achieved.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think many did a long time ago. But they have continually looked for leadership. Not just Smudger turning up outside the ground when we lose. Proper leadership. Why do you think it hasn''t happened Wazzy? The websites, the St. Annies public meeting, the posters, banners and flyers, the organised protests and marches - why haven''t they happened?

[/quote]

I think the answer may be relatively simple:

All of those protests, chants, demonstrations (or such like) to remeove Worthy did BUGGER ALL. People got in a right state about Worthington, and thought that when we got rid of him all of our troubles would be over.

Perhaps the realisation that there is no magic bullet, or that no matter which witch we hunt, we may still be in this mess in 5 years time has dampened the angry mob''s burning torches?

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I beg to differ Blah. I reckon there''s nobody prepared to lead the protest this time around. Plenty of followers mind, porobably as many as before, no leader though.[/quote]

Thats the problem Nutty, there are lots of people who want to do something constructive but you need a team of the right sort of people to organise/lead them and thats a time consuming job .

[/quote]

You don''t need anyone to organise a season ticket boycott. 

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

May take something of similar ilk. Very different circumstances to the Wolves fans who were watching their team in a playoff semi!

Even if we stay up on Sunday i do not regard it as an acceptable season or anything for which anyone should get any plaudits.

[/quote]

It seems absolutely incredible to me that fans who feel so strongly against the board are posting on here what they may do. Back in 2006, not even 12 months after our relegation, we had Worthy Out web site, stickers, banners, organised marches, organised petitions, a public meeting at St Andrews Hall and loud and comparitively well attended protests inside and outside the ground. Now after 4 seasons of decline it''s "I may take a banner"! I''m not having a pop at you Jim but can you explain it?

 

 

[/quote]

Maybe its because the guys who started that had passion and balls in abundence Nutty.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

Then what''s happened to their passion and balls now? I''m not talking about comparisons with 1995 and Chase because the game, and what''s needed to own a football club, has changed so much it wouldn''t be right to compare. I''m talking about just 3 years ago and the amount of people prepared to put the time and effort (you''re right Angel) into removing our manager. People asking me to sign petitions as I entered the ground. A web site, a public meeting at St Andrews hall, a concerted and sometimes hateful campaign for real and not just on the message boards, a couple of reasonably attended organised protests, quite a few off the cuff protests, fans groups making statements to the press clearly stating the manager should go and so on.

Maybe the people who were prepared to make the effort then still blame Worthy now and don''t actually blame the board at all?

 

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Then what''s happened to their passion and balls now? I''m not talking about comparisons with 1995 and Chase because the game, and what''s needed to own a football club, has changed so much it wouldn''t be right to compare. I''m talking about just 3 years ago and the amount of people prepared to put the time and effort (you''re right Angel) into removing our manager. People asking me to sign petitions as I entered the ground. A web site, a public meeting at St Andrews hall, a concerted and sometimes hateful campaign for real and not just on the message boards, a couple of reasonably attended organised protests, quite a few off the cuff protests, fans groups making statements to the press clearly stating the manager should go and so on.

Maybe the people who were prepared to make the effort then still blame Worthy now and don''t actually blame the board at all?

 

 

[/quote]

I blame Worthy totally, had he not have got us to the playoffs, then promotion the fans would not have such high expectations now!!

The board could have drifted along and everyone would be happy. Totally behind our failing teams.[:D]

I think we should start another Worthy out campaign just for spite! Get him sacked by the Irish[;)]

[nutty nigel 7,534]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Then what''s happened to their passion and balls now? I''m not talking about comparisons with 1995 and Chase because the game, and what''s needed to own a football club, has changed so much it wouldn''t be right to compare. I''m talking about just 3 years ago and the amount of people prepared to put the time and effort (you''re right Angel) into removing our manager. People asking me to sign petitions as I entered the ground. A web site, a public meeting at St Andrews hall, a concerted and sometimes hateful campaign for real and not just on the message boards, a couple of reasonably attended organised protests, quite a few off the cuff protests, fans groups making statements to the press clearly stating the manager should go and so on.

Maybe the people who were prepared to make the effort then still blame Worthy now and don''t actually blame the board at all?

 

 

[/quote]

I blame Worthy totally, had he not have got us to the playoffs, then promotion the fans would not have such high expectations now!!

The board could have drifted along and everyone would be happy. Totally behind our failing teams.[:D]

I think we should start another Worthy out campaign just for spite! Get him sacked by the Irish[;)]

[/quote]

You''d have thought the board would have realised this and given him the pink slip after the play off final. Flamin'' Galah''s the lot of ''em[:@]

 

[Badger 0]

[quote user="canari francais"]

Badger,what you say is true up to a point,but would only be completely valid if things,in the main,were going OK(ie we''d just had one bad season "blip"). But that''s not the case is it? The current regime have been in situ for many years now,during which they have presided over a steady decline. You could argue that 2003-5 was just a "blip " of success,in a sea of mediocrity and spiralling down. Many of their decisions have been "simplistic" (disastrous managerial appointments,quick-fix player recruitment,the lack of emphasis on youth development etc etc).

 

Of course I see that if nobody is prepared to come in and invest,the possibility of "getting rid of the Smiths" is not there,but,please don''t blame us,the fans, for being simplistic. Lay that blame at the door of those really in control(sic).

[/quote]Francais, the last thing I would want to do is blame the fans! That is my point - the fact that some on here have posted so critically of the fans has meant that they get less support for their cause than they otherwise might. I don''t know how much of the recent stuff you have read but we have people on here who have:1. Called us sheep because we still pay to go to matches and have renewed our season tickets 2. Saying that the problems of Norwich City are because we have too many female supporters/ old people/ children/ middle class people3. Others have said that a football club reflects the area that it comes from - Norwich is unsuccessful becuase people from Norfolk are backward-thinking, easily satisfied and umbitious.You won''t have to look far to find these threads.I don''t think that pouring this sort of scorn on supporters has done anything to win people over to their case - perhaps because a lot of people that are supporters are female/ old/ middle class or under 16! Rather than criticising all the "stupid fans," as they see them, they woud do better to try to be inclusive.

[barclay46 0]

[quote user="1st Wazzock"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

Even if we stay up on Sunday i do not regard it as an acceptable season or anything for which anyone should get any plaudits.

[/quote]

I think Nutty, that the placid people of Norwich have reached their breaking point.

[/quote]Not so much ''breaking point'' more like ''Saturation point'' of being let down by poor boardroom decions,bad management and players who talk a good game to the media then don''t produce on the pitch.

[CANARY CHARGE 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="1st Wazzock"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="1st Wazzock"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

Even if we stay up on Sunday i do not regard it as an acceptable season or anything for which anyone should get any plaudits.

[/quote]

I think Nutty, that the placid people of Norwich have reached their breaking point.

[/quote]

I think many did a long time ago. But they have continually looked for leadership. Not just Smudger turning up outside the ground when we lose. Proper leadership. Why do you think it hasn''t happened Wazzy? The websites, the St. Annies public meeting, the posters, banners and flyers, the organised protests and marches - why haven''t they happened?

 

[/quote]

I can''t answer that, it amazed me (and City Angel0 that so many fans went home after Mondays fiasco and didn''t protest.

Perhaps the straw has now broken the camels back, only time will tell.

[/quote]

The obvious answer to that is that going home is what they wanted to do. And since then the focus of those who did protest has been those other fans instead of what the protest was about.

I still believe there would have been hundreds there if the protest against Delia (and lets face it thats what it is) had any proper leadership.

 

[/quote]I know the people who started worthy out, and believe it was the easiest starts to a campaign, they were abuse verbally and physically and spat at on several occasions..........It was clear on Monday the board sill has some really strong followers! why im clueless to that!But i for 1 will stand up and we as fans have to back our mouths or the board will take us not to division 1 but administration aswell!come on you yellows!!

[Chunky Norwich 0]

My answer to the question Nutty is very simply this: apathy.

When we came down from the Premiership, we had passion and excitement in abundance. We''d seen our boys in yellow beat ManYoo and Newcastle, seen a wonder goal by Safri, good shifts by the players, national attention and the chance to romp the Championship with Huckerby, McKenzie, Ashton, Green, Francis et al. When this quite clearly wasn''t going to happen, the fans had the passion to get up and do something; ironically against considerably more counter-arguments and aggression than would happen now.

Since that time however, the club has spent three or four seasons slumping down to the depths we''re currently at. A succession of poor managers, asset-stripping, downgrading of players and a reliance on loans. Yes, I know everyone knows this but my point is that everything about Norwich City has gone from being hopeful and exciting to being boring and ominous. To use the internet buzz-word, Norwich are just ''meh''. Can I get excited enough about a team with a squad of fourteen players about to quietly drop into the third tier and have the lights turned off behind them by a former sheriff and a CE who tells everyone not to worry because at least we''re not Gretna? Nope. There''s almost nothing to identify this current shambles with the Norwich City I know and love save for the yellow and green colours. Even Carrow Road has a bloody hotel in it nowadays.

I''ve probably gone around the reply in a long way but for the short answer: it''s apathy.

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Chunky Norwich"]

I''ve probably gone around the reply in a long way but for the short answer: it''s apathy.

[/quote]Sorry - you don''t spend hundreds of pounds and organise your life around something if you are apathetic! There are loads of people who for whom the money is significant and loads of others who give up large parts of their free time. If you think the lack of protest is because of apathy, you misunderstand imo. It is because not everybody is as certain as you that there is an easy solution. That coupled with the abuse they have been getting from some of the extreme board outers is the reason why they wont jump on the directionless bandwagon that some suggest.

[Chunky Norwich 0]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Chunky Norwich"]

I''ve probably gone around the reply in a long way but for the short answer: it''s apathy.

[/quote]

Sorry - you don''t spend hundreds of pounds and organise your life around something if you are apathetic!

There are loads of people who for whom the money is significant and loads of others who give up large parts of their free time. If you think the lack of protest is because of apathy, you misunderstand imo.

It is because not everybody is as certain as you that there is an easy solution. That coupled with the abuse they have been getting from some of the extreme board outers is the reason why they wont jump on the directionless bandwagon that some suggest.
[/quote]

I''m not exactly sure what you mean there, Badger. What''s my "easy solution"?

And I assume you mean the money and time are in relation to attending the games; if so, I''m not saying everyone is apathetic towards the club, just towards a mass protest, printing banners etc. I''ve still forked out money for tickets and given up my Saturday afternoons because I want to come to Carrow Road and watch Norwich but I am apathetic towards the plight of the club and what''s going on at boardroom level.

It could also be argued that some fans really are apathetic. I know of quite a few people who attend games or have season tickets because it''s ''something to do''. They can still enjoy a game or be bored by one like the rest of us but the overall passion and concern for the club is not really there.

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Chunky Norwich"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Chunky Norwich"]

I''ve probably gone around the reply in a long way but for the short answer: it''s apathy.

[/quote]Sorry - you don''t spend hundreds of pounds and organise your life around something if you are apathetic! There are loads of people who for whom the money is significant and loads of others who give up large parts of their free time. If you think the lack of protest is because of apathy, you misunderstand imo. It is because not everybody is as certain as you that there is an easy solution. That coupled with the abuse they have been getting from some of the extreme board outers is the reason why they wont jump on the directionless bandwagon that some suggest.[/quote]

I''m not exactly sure what you mean there, Badger. What''s my "easy solution"?

And I assume you mean the money and time are in relation to attending the games; if so, I''m not saying everyone is apathetic towards the club, just towards a mass protest, printing banners etc. I''ve still forked out money for tickets and given up my Saturday afternoons because I want to come to Carrow Road and watch Norwich but I am apathetic towards the plight of the club and what''s going on at boardroom level.

It could also be argued that some fans really are apathetic. I know of quite a few people who attend games or have season tickets because it''s ''something to do''. They can still enjoy a game or be bored by one like the rest of us but the overall passion and concern for the club is not really there.

[/quote][quote user="Chunky Norwich"]I''m not exactly sure what you mean there, Badger. What''s my "easy solution"?[/quote]It might not be yours Chunky but some have said that simply getting rid of the current board will make everything better – ditto Chase, Worthington etc.[quote user="Chunky Norwich"]…I''m not saying everyone is apathetic towards the club, just towards a mass protest, printing banners etc….[/quote]I agree with you here – that is why there have not been big protests etc. The reason behind this apathy is not a lack of concern however or an indifference to the plight we find ourselves in. IMO it is because people are not sure that a mass protest, even if it were successful would necessarily be beneficial. It would depend upon who bought us. We’ve been through this with Chase remember. The other thing that has weakened protests imo is the divisive statements employed by many on here about many sections of City supporters (sheep; backward, female, old, middle class etc). I am not including you in that although I don’t agree that there are many season ticket holders who don’t have an “overall passion” for the club.

[Mister Chops 7]

Well, quite.The "Worthy Out!" campaign was a "safe" one in that we were always going to get another manager if it was successful.  Managers are not hard to find.To find a majority shareholder and board of directors in the middle of a financial recession, with our one significant hope now walking away as now is not the right time - it is highly unlikely to happen.Personally, I''m quite convinced the board, Delia & MWJ know their time is up and would like to get out, but it''s not a seller''s market out there.  A protest would achieve little, they will go when the conditions are right for them to go - and I mean financial conditions for them and the club.  Many of us feel this board have abdicated their responsibilities to the club on many occasions; but surely the most important fulfilment of a board''s duty is to find the right new owner and ensure a stable transition?  They must at least get this right, whatever league the club finds itself in.  FWIW, that''s what I think they will hold out for, protests or not.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Well, quite.The "Worthy Out!" campaign was a "safe" one in that we were always going to get another manager if it was successful.  Managers are not hard to find.To find a majority shareholder and board of directors in the middle of a financial recession, with our one significant hope now walking away as now is not the right time - it is highly unlikely to happen.Personally, I''m quite convinced the board, Delia & MWJ know their time is up and would like to get out, but it''s not a seller''s market out there.  A protest would achieve little, they will go when the conditions are right for them to go - and I mean financial conditions for them and the club.  Many of us feel this board have abdicated their responsibilities to the club on many occasions; but surely the most important fulfilment of a board''s duty is to find the right new owner and ensure a stable transition?  They must at least get this right, whatever league the club finds itself in.  FWIW, that''s what I think they will hold out for, protests or not.

[/quote]indeed - i suggest the board have been toughing it out ever since their exit plan folded when the turners walked - they will seek to balance the books and stem the weekly losses - and look to sell next close season as economic conditions improve...so regrefully - expect another mediocre season to follow...[:''(]

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Well, quite.The "Worthy Out!" campaign was a "safe" one in that we were always going to get another manager if it was successful.  Managers are not hard to find.[/quote]Good managers, on the other hand, are very hard to find.  And this lot have made a pig''s ear of it frequently:Walker mk 2 - very poorly treated in dismissalRioch - dittoHamilton - disgraceful appointmentWorthington - yes, lucky perhaps, but yesGrant - WTF?  Show me the prudence or ambition in this gamble!Roeder - Good for four months, I guessGunn - the league table doesn''t lie.