Support for Delia

[lucky green trainers 0]

why were we relegated in the prem??? a leaky defence and lack of firepower up front (pre-ashton)...how could we get relegated this time??? ummm...

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="One Flew Over..."][quote user="The Prisoner"]You''ve just named twenty teams who''ve been in the prem, add us and the twenty currently in that league and you''re up to 41 teams and several of those have been up more than once.Surely with at least that many teams getting a slice of the premiership pie it must be more of an open shop than you and purple would have us believe? It''s not exactly the same three teams getting promoted/relegated each year is it? [/quote]Every Premiership season bar one has seen a newly promoted team relegated. Even if a team manages to stay up how many are still there two years later? It is hardly going to greatly improve their 30 year average league position. [/quote]As I remember it was you yourself who first brought up the thirty year period I simply obliged with the stats. Each promoted team gets a chance primarily by being handed large wads of money. Some have taken that chance better than others for example Birmingham and WBA have both been promoted more than once, have spent some few years in the prem and have assembled a squad strong enough to be competitive in the Championship with the money. Others and there are more of these have gone up, come down and not been particularly competitive since and others have gone up and crashed straight into football obscurity. We had a chance and blew it, we blrew the money on heaven only knows what and we are for the second season running on the brink of football obscurity.  I reiterate each and every promoted team gets a chance some take that chance and others waste it.We wasted ours!

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So at what point did you decide you had been duped over Chase too?

 

[/quote]In about 1998 when somebody I knew who was connected with the Club at the time told me the truth about the calling in of the overdraft which brought Chase to his knees and ushered in the Delia era. This is why I smile whenever anybody accuses Cullum of being a wrong ''un for ''waiting ''til we''re in trouble financially'' because at least the man has the common decency to wait.[:D]

[nutty nigel 7,656]

[quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So at what point did you decide you had been duped over Chase too?

 

[/quote]

In about 1998 when somebody I knew who was connected with the Club at the time told me the truth about the calling in of the overdraft which brought Chase to his knees and ushered in the Delia era. This is why I smile whenever anybody accuses Cullum of being a wrong ''un for ''waiting ''til we''re in trouble financially'' because at least the man has the common decency to wait.[:D]


[/quote]

So of course the next question is at what point in the future do you expect to revisit the past and find you were duped about Delia too? As your track record rather suggests it will happen.

I would just like to add that where as I don''t agree with your current witch hunt I do believe that your posting and arguments always deserve a response. Something I don''t feel about the arrogant and patronising Mr Carrow (Indeed, i believe City are already ahead of the game in this field with Delia`s catering enterprise, the planned new hotel and the Malaysian connection) who believes he is amongst the few know it all and always right fans and yet conveniently forgets that he was in fact very much in favour of spending off the field before hindsight got to him. And the rather aptly named Peter Thorne who doesn''t appear to be able to think outside his own blinkered agenda and probably didn''t have enough brain to come on here in the first place.

 

[Badger 0]

[quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So at what point did you decide you had been duped over Chase too?

 

[/quote]In about 1998 when somebody I knew who was connected with the Club at the time told me the truth about the calling in of the overdraft which brought Chase to his knees and ushered in the Delia era. This is why I smile whenever anybody accuses Cullum of being a wrong ''un for ''waiting ''til we''re in trouble financially'' because at least the man has the common decency to wait.[:D]

[/quote]As a matter of interest, what was the truth?

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So at what point did you decide you had been duped over Chase too?

 

[/quote]In about 1998 when somebody I knew who was connected with the Club at the time told me the truth about the calling in of the overdraft which brought Chase to his knees and ushered in the Delia era. This is why I smile whenever anybody accuses Cullum of being a wrong ''un for ''waiting ''til we''re in trouble financially'' because at least the man has the common decency to wait.[:D]

[/quote]

So of course the next question is at what point in the future do you expect to revisit the past and find you were duped about Delia too? As your track record rather suggests it will happen.

[/quote]

Refer to answer posted at 19:32 (above)

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I would just like to add that where as I don''t agree with your

current witch hunt I do believe that your posting and arguments always

deserve a response. Something I don''t feel about the arrogant and

patronising Mr Carrow (Indeed, i believe City are already ahead of

the game in this field with Delia`s catering enterprise, the planned

new hotel and the Malaysian connection) who believes he is

amongst the few know it all and always right fans and yet conveniently

forgets that he was in fact very much in favour of spending off the

field before hindsight got to him. And the rather aptly named Peter

Thorne who doesn''t appear to be able to think outside his own blinkered

agenda and probably didn''t have enough brain to come on here in the

first place.

 

[/quote]Cheers Nutty respect is mutual.I sometimes imagine in the brief moments when the smoke drifting from the twisted, smouldering wreckage of war out there in no mans land clears sufficiently that I can see you and the others like you camped out in your trenches, and occasionally, just occasionally I think in a funny way we are all probably fighting for what we think is best for the club, the only difference being one of opinion as to exactly what each of us believes is best for the club, I think maybe one Christmas day we''ll get a ball out in the middle and have a kick around then the shelling starts and the smoke thickens and the moment is lost again.

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So at what point did you decide you had been duped over Chase too?

 

[/quote]In about 1998 when somebody I knew who was connected with the Club at the time told me the truth about the calling in of the overdraft which brought Chase to his knees and ushered in the Delia era. This is why I smile whenever anybody accuses Cullum of being a wrong ''un for ''waiting ''til we''re in trouble financially'' because at least the man has the common decency to wait.[:D]

[/quote]As a matter of interest, what was the truth?[/quote]Believe it or not this is pretty well the same story I heard from an old family friend back in 1998.Link

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

You''re probably right. However I do have enough intelligence to identify the staggering extent to which our expectations have been managed.

Let me say this. You have been one of this board''s consistently most thoughtful and well reasoned contributors, but here is what I and possibly others find so frustrating about you and some others of a similar viewpoint over these issues (which may account for some of the ire/arrogance you detect in other posters.)

At the point of each successive debacle over the last 3 years, I believe you have rightfully acknowledged the mistakes made by our board, but using (again) well reasoned arguments, dismissed them as ordinary or expected "blips" on a path to wider recovery. Now, as that recovery has failed to materialise (rather we are in our worst state for decades) it seems like you have selectively failed to accumulate those acknowledgements, your OWN criticisms, to ultimately take a firm stance on the way the club is obviously being run. Rather, you have now reframed that same period (or gone entirely along with the board''s reframing) as a inevitable symptom of wider changes within football, or even as a relative success.

This, as Mello would say, is "flibbery-flubbery flip-flopping" and entirely paints the picture of someone who would die before condemning an obviously failing regime.

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

That was aimed at Nutty btw (quote failed.)

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Peter Thorne"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

But we are not comparing like for like. It could be that we have over achieved compared to what another board may have done. We will never know.

[/quote]

So you''re saying that the fairest comparison is actually between reality, and an entirely hypothetical parallel reality that never happened? You realise that makes absolutely no sense, right?

No, there are two fair benchmarks for comparison. One - club history. Two - against our peers, similar sized clubs or clubs with a similar history. Against either measure NCFC has failed dismally under the current board, and since you haven''t lost a key part of your brain, you know it as surely as I do.

[/quote]

To put things intro perspective things could have gone a lot, lot worse ask Leeds, Oxford, Swindon, Luton, Huddersfield, Oldham, Gillingham, Brighton, Port Vale, Notts County, Grimsby, Leicester, Millwall, Bradford etc.

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Peter Thorne"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

But we are not comparing like for like. It could be that we have over achieved compared to what another board may have done. We will never know.

[/quote]

So you''re saying that the fairest comparison is actually between reality, and an entirely hypothetical parallel reality that never happened? You realise that makes absolutely no sense, right?

No, there are two fair benchmarks for comparison. One - club history. Two - against our peers, similar sized clubs or clubs with a similar history. Against either measure NCFC has failed dismally under the current board, and since you haven''t lost a key part of your brain, you know it as surely as I do.

[/quote]

To put things intro perspective things could have gone a lot, lot worse ask Leeds, Oxford, Swindon, Luton, Huddersfield, Oldham, Gillingham, Brighton, Port Vale, Notts County, Grimsby, Leicester, Millwall, Bradford etc.

[/quote]You forgot Southampton, Doomy always tells us about Southampton.

[The Fish Seller 0]

BTW nice to see you back Tom any luck finding evidence of this quote "Now rated by many in the game as the best run club in the country." as you were asked much earlier in this thread?I guess that the combined populaces of Leeds, Oxford, Swindon, Luton, Huddersfield, Oldham, Gillingham,

Brighton, The Potteries, Nottingham, Grimsby, Leicester, Millwall,

Bradford and of course Southampton all of whom must be looking enviously in our direction would probably technically count as ''many'' if you get stuck.[:D]

[corbs 0]

Norwich Supporters are many things, dim twerps, etc (that certainly sounds like me) but one thing we are not, and never will be (thank god) is ''cool''.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Peter Thorne"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

But we are not comparing like for like. It could be that we have over achieved compared to what another board may have done. We will never know.

[/quote]

So you''re saying that the fairest comparison is actually between reality, and an entirely hypothetical parallel reality that never happened? You realise that makes absolutely no sense, right?

No, there are two fair benchmarks for comparison. One - club history. Two - against our peers, similar sized clubs or clubs with a similar history. Against either measure NCFC has failed dismally under the current board, and since you haven''t lost a key part of your brain, you know it as surely as I do.

[/quote]

To put things intro perspective things could have gone a lot, lot worse ask Leeds, Oxford, Swindon, Luton, Huddersfield, Oldham, Gillingham, Brighton, Port Vale, Notts County, Grimsby, Leicester, Millwall, Bradford etc.

[/quote]
You forgot Southampton, Doomy always tells us about Southampton.
[/quote]

And there was Stockport, Barnsley, Crewe, Rotherham, Walsall.

People seem to forget the impact of ITV Digital going bust in March 2002. The championship was hit the worst. In 2002 Man City & West Brom were promoted to the Prem. Of all the other clubs in the championship that season, NONE are now in the Premiership.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="The Prisoner"]BTW nice to see you back Tom any luck finding evidence of this quote "Now rated by many in the game as the best run club in the country." as you were asked much earlier in this thread?
I guess that the combined populaces of Leeds, Oxford, Swindon, Luton, Huddersfield, Oldham, Gillingham, Brighton, The Potteries, Nottingham, Grimsby, Leicester, Millwall, Bradford and of course Southampton all of whom must be looking enviously in our direction would probably technically count as ''many'' if you get stuck.[:D]
[/quote]

Indeed. There was a FA/FL report into things like fan satisfation etc etc and found Norwich to be the best club in many areas. Other clubs now come to Norwich to have a look at how the club does things for example using the database for marketing etc. etc.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Peter Thorne"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

But we are not comparing like for like. It could be that we have over achieved compared to what another board may have done. We will never know.

[/quote]

So you''re saying that the fairest comparison is actually between reality, and an entirely hypothetical parallel reality that never happened? You realise that makes absolutely no sense, right?

No, there are two fair benchmarks for comparison. One - club history. Two - against our peers, similar sized clubs or clubs with a similar history. Against either measure NCFC has failed dismally under the current board, and since you haven''t lost a key part of your brain, you know it as surely as I do.

[/quote]

To put things intro perspective things could have gone a lot, lot worse ask Leeds, Oxford, Swindon, Luton, Huddersfield, Oldham, Gillingham, Brighton, Port Vale, Notts County, Grimsby, Leicester, Millwall, Bradford etc.

[/quote]
You forgot Southampton, Doomy always tells us about Southampton.
[/quote]

And there was Stockport, Barnsley, Crewe, Rotherham, Walsall.

People seem to forget the impact of ITV Digital going bust in March 2002. The championship was hit the worst. In 2002 Man City & West Brom were promoted to the Prem. Of all the other clubs in the championship that season, NONE are now in the Premiership.

[/quote]

Just to correct myself - ONLY ONE other club is now in the Prem - Portsmouth and that was manily thanks to Milandric.

Amazing that we still have a championship club to support following the ITV digital crash that ruined many clubs.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]

no she hasn''t in fact she has presided over serial underinvesment which is likely to cause the club to go bust

no she hasn''t, she stands to make a profit once we finally get rid of her [/quote]

Firstly whilst I don''t agree with the original post I would suggest that you first read it properly. This guy did not say that Delia "saved" the club, merely that she "helped" to save the club. I don''t think you can get more accurate than that discription. She may not have been the person to save it at the eleventh hour per se but she did come in with the backing when it was needed to prevent another eleventh our from happening.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"] average crowds have nothing to do with Delia[/quote]

I think that is harsh. Especially when you are suggesting that the results on the pitch do. What do I mean by this? I mean that crowds, of which I was part of, of around 14,000-16,000 were the average when she came in, they didn''t get a lot better until the play off final season and then they gained in momentum with each game to where we are now. Now I hate to say it but from somewhere in the last 9-10 years we have gained around 9,000 - 10,000 regular and committed supporters. My point is most people that argue for her to leave are doing so because of the success (or lack of) of the team - which is ultimately what determines how many fans come or go. So by saying because we are currently poor in results she must go - you can not use the same logic to suggest that she was in no way responsible for the success.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"] now rated by many as a laughing stock, before she took over we were in the top flight and beating the likes of Arsenal etc, now we can''t compete with the likes of Burnley, Preston and Swansea.[/quote]

See other peoples questions of this "many". I spent 7 years down in the south east and many of the footie fans I met down there didn''t know where Norwich was exactly but spoke highly of the club. Many identifying it as a "small" club or a "quiet" club, some remember the years when we were good but not many - football fans of other teams care little for other clubs history past the last season or two. As for the teams you mention - we may not have the financial clout but so far as my knowledge goes we were only ever in a position to compete with those clubs for about two or three seasons - one of which was in the premiership. The last one was with Grant where he spent a lot of money on seemingly not very much.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]the club has business interests that fail to provide any kind of transfer kitty, we can''t even raise funds to buy our own players, we are a laughing stock.[/quote]

Again I am not convinced this is accurate, I think you will find the biggest problem at the moment is the wage bill - the reason why we go for loans is because the cost of buying them is not the issue. For example a player on £12k a week is earning £624k a year. I think half of that is about average but you can see where the problem lies. For example Lita could cost us as little as £300k bit if his wage demands are between £6k and £12k then you are looking at doubling that figure for his wages for one season. He will want a lengthy contract so maybe three years and you are looking at nearly £2million on his wages alone.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]the stadium, although it has been redeveloped has still fallen way behind many of our rivals and it''s capacity would be way too small if we were a succesful club, the City stand would be more appropriate for a Div 1 club, mind you that''s where we are heading with complacent posters like you sticking up for the current regime.[/quote]

I am not sure I agree. There are many new stadiums about but few are convincing. The Reading stadium for example is a sardine tin that shakes when a row stand up to let someone get to the loo. Hardly impressive! In addition to that not many teams have stadiums they can fill. The capacity at Wigin may be big and the stadium impressive but their support is truly Div 1 if there were a league for gates. So whislt not the best we are by no means the worse. Infact QPR with all that money are a good example of one of the worsed in the division.

Your point about playing budget is so pathetic and misguided to be hysterically funny if it were not so tragic.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]I am sure she will have a say in what players are bought and sold, simply there are no funds to buy any players, and any that are regarded as being worth anything are quickly sold on. I am equally sure that she will had a say in the appointment of Grant and Roeder.[/quote]

Aagain I would argue twisted logic. If you are going to slate her for the appointmenlts of Grant and Roeder then what about the other managers? I would say that Roeder is probably the middle man with Worthington and Rioch as the two more successful and Grant and Hamilton as the two least successful. And so you would have to accept that she was involved in all of their appointments and the results that they achieved for this club.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]If I was Peter Cullum I wouldn''t go near this club with a barge pole whilst the current muppets are running (ruining?) the show.[/quote]

I think that that isn''t even a question. Cullum was never interested in keeping MWJ and DS onboard in any really influential way. He may have come up with the figurehead bit but ask yourself why and you will realise that it''s spin. He doesn''t want to get his hands dirty, he wants the fans to do that for him. If he wants to buy the club and invest in it he will not want to make risks with people who don''t know how to evaluate them properly.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]I work with a number of Ipswich fans, and without exception they LOVE our Delia. They would be gutted if she left believe me, I constsantly get reminded about the embarassing half time "let''s be aving you" rant. Thye know that whilst we have Delia in charge we will always be "little Norwich".[/quote]

Since when has any Norwich fan been bothered by what the fans down the road think?!! I put up with a few at uni but the funny thing was we all laughed at the Delia outburst as did many other people who supported other clubs. The feedback I picked up on was not all negative, they all said it was more than a bit daft but they liked it, it showed a person who cared about their club and not the typical tie and suit smug buisiness man with his calculater etc.[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is the opinion of a naive, deluded fool.

[/quote]Please refrain from such harsh judgements. Whilst I don''t entirely agree with the chap I have to say what you have said is also not accurate which is essentially what you accuse him of. Does that also mean that your sentiment at the end there is also applicable to you by your own rules of judgement?I don''t think so. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - end of, question it but do not insult them for having it.

[. 0]

[quote user="swindoncanary"]Delia doesn''t do half the things that people suggest on this forum. She is the majority share holder, along with her husband, but she is only a member on the board.
I agree, she has made mistakes, but non of them have been hers alone.
She is a supporter of the club everything she tried to do was for the benefit of the club. Please stop mentioning ''Delia'' when in fact you are talking about the Board as a whole.
[/quote]

You stick to your angle on the cook...others will stick to theirs. She has almost single handedly ruined our once fine club via her petulance and conceit. Her star has faded simultaneously with NCFC....and no-one else is to blame for the "yes man" luvvies she has surrounded herself with....as do all such "negative publicity sensitive personalities".

Boot the old maid out along with the rest of her collaborators...and send her to Swindon if you love her so much.

[Mello Yello 2,311]

[quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Peter Thorne"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

But we are not comparing like for like. It could be that we have over achieved compared to what another board may have done. We will never know.

[/quote]

So you''re saying that the fairest comparison is actually between reality, and an entirely hypothetical parallel reality that never happened? You realise that makes absolutely no sense, right?

No, there are two fair benchmarks for comparison. One - club history. Two - against our peers, similar sized clubs or clubs with a similar history. Against either measure NCFC has failed dismally under the current board, and since you haven''t lost a key part of your brain, you know it as surely as I do.

[/quote]

To put things intro perspective things could have gone a lot, lot worse ask Leeds, Oxford, Swindon, Luton, Huddersfield, Oldham, Gillingham, Brighton, Port Vale, Notts County, Grimsby, Leicester, Millwall, Bradford etc.

[/quote]
You forgot Southampton, Doomy always tells us about Southampton.
[/quote]

"And not forgetting the once great supported club that is/was ''Gretna''.....Doomy liked to mention them in his fortnightly formidable flawless and flamboyant flummery!".....[:|] 

[chicken 0]

[quote user="CT "]Yes she may have saved us (it was Watling but I''ll humour you) but now look where shes lead us to! This is far far worse than the position Chase left us in....[/quote]May I dare say that if Chase had never left we would never had reached the premiership - infact I think we would have spent longer in the bottom half of the championship and most people would be satisfied with a mid table finish. But we shall never know and it is funny how people go back to Chase.People talk about the land. I shall point this much out. He bought it over the odds and it is only due to the fact that property prices went up that it made money. Sure it may be a sound long term investment thats what you like to call it but look how long it has taken to make its money. We needed that money then or soon after, not now when that money is a drop in the ocean to what some clubs are spending on players. I mean lets face it we are not even talking about tens of millions here!That and as far as I am aware DS and MWJ did not spend hundreds of thousands of pounds if not millions on buying and pimping out a luxurry villa in Spain . . . .

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

[quote user="swindoncanary"]Delia doesn''t do half the things that people suggest on this forum. She is the majority share holder, along with her husband, but she is only a member on the board.
I agree, she has made mistakes, but non of them have been hers alone.
She is a supporter of the club everything she tried to do was for the benefit of the club. Please stop mentioning ''Delia'' when in fact you are talking about the Board as a whole.
[/quote]

You stick to your angle on the cook...others will stick to theirs. She has almost single handedly ruined our once fine club via her petulance and conceit. Her star has faded simultaneously with NCFC....and no-one else is to blame for the "yes man" luvvies she has surrounded herself with....as do all such "negative publicity sensitive personalities".

Boot the old maid out along with the rest of her collaborators...and send her to Swindon if you love her so much.

[/quote]

Have you got anything to back up your claims, and why are you so disrespectful towards Delia who has put many millions of her own money into the club?

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Peter Thorne"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

But we are not comparing like for like. It could be that we have over achieved compared to what another board may have done. We will never know.

[/quote]

So you''re saying that the fairest comparison is actually between reality, and an entirely hypothetical parallel reality that never happened? You realise that makes absolutely no sense, right?

No, there are two fair benchmarks for comparison. One - club history. Two - against our peers, similar sized clubs or clubs with a similar history. Against either measure NCFC has failed dismally under the current board, and since you haven''t lost a key part of your brain, you know it as surely as I do.

[/quote]

To put things intro perspective things could have gone a lot, lot worse ask Leeds, Oxford, Swindon, Luton, Huddersfield, Oldham, Gillingham, Brighton, Port Vale, Notts County, Grimsby, Leicester, Millwall, Bradford etc.

[/quote]You forgot Southampton, Doomy always tells us about Southampton.[/quote]

"And not forgetting the once great supported club that is/was ''Gretna''.....Doomy liked to mention them in his fortnightly formidable flawless and flamboyant flummery!".....[:|] 

[/quote]Old Doomys right though you know, I had completely forgotten Gretna already, that''s how easily it happens. I''ve looked the name up on Wiki and even the Gretna golden years of Europe, top tier football, the Cup runs and regular attendances of 25k+ per week have already disappeared from the records. All that remains are a few lines about some minor league club with half a dozen supporters and even that will probably be gone soon at this rate.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]

Delia has helped save the club from going bust.

Delia has invested millions of her own money into the club. [/quote]Whilst these are reletively truthful statements I think that you ignore the other sides to them. Yes she helped to save the club and in doing so has also put in millions of her own money over time but the thing is it is possible that our majority share holders have taken us as far as their means are able to take us. That is no slight on them or their efforts but football has gone nuts since they came and perhaps they alone are not enough to take this club forwards once more.

[quote user="tom cavendish"]Average crowds are 10,000 higher than when Delia took over.[/quote]As others have pointed out there are other factors involved in all of this such as stadium expansion. Many argue inacurately that this is due to the land that Chase bought making us the money to do so. I think it has more to do with the re-structuring of the loans on the debt we had which enabled us to use money elsewhere other than just paying off the debt. This ofcourse was the boards work so can not be taken entirely away from them. The other factor is the success of the teams on the pitch. I think that with teams it is all about getting the right people at the right time and the right place. The play off final team and to some extent the promotion team were not on paper fantastic teams but they were and did well. So I think some credit has to be given to the team and players that have been at the club and the success that had led to more fans attending on a regular basis. On top of that I think you also have to credit the fans that kept coming back when the gates were a lot smaller - it is likely that many of them are responsible for others that now attend, and it is them that give the club such a great reputation when it comes to supporters.

[quote user="tom cavendish"]Now rated by many in the game as the best run club in the country.[/quote]You need to expand upon this because I have not seen anything anywhere that suggests this.

[quote user="tom cavendish"]The club has business interests that help provide extra funds for the team[/quote]Again whilst this is true it may not be enough when other factors are taken into account. The resteraunt makes a tidy sum as do some of the other money making areas of the club such as the travel bit etc but this is only going to be a possitive thing if it is able to expand and generate more money every year. I think that at the moment it is a great asset to have these companies but yet again it is not enough - we can''t exist without them but we need either football to calm down and players to demand less wages or for another source of reliable income such as TV or a wealthy owner who can supplement income.

[quote user="tom cavendish"]The stadium has been extensively redeveloped.[/quote]Not sure that you can really class one stand and a hotel we didn''t build as "extensively" to be honest and even then it was no longer a matter of choice. It is pretty well known that the old South Stand was on its last legs literally as it failed to make health and safetly standards that would have cost a large chunk of what was invested into a new stand. I would however say that the new stand has been designed intelligently in that it offers more facilities that can in turn make the club money.

[quote user="tom cavendish"]The playing budget given to the management is very competitive.[/quote]As mentioned in another post I think wages have a lot to do with it and to be honest unless you have inside information we don''t know how competative our budget is because we don''t know how much there is. If you go by previous seasons then it has been competetive - Grant''s spending spree was no small sum and Roeder''s summer spree wasn''t puny but Worthington''s last summer was £700k on Croft. I think people are more concerned about what we have to spend now because each time they tell us there is little or nothing we become more worried and it seems more convincing.

 

[quote user="tom cavendish"]Therefore she has done a brilliant job.[/quote]I don''t think that this can be claimed anymore. I think that up until relegation from the premiership and debatebly the end of the season after you can say that she was part of a great success story of being part of a club that ran not on money but on spirit, attitude and tremendous support. Since the end of the first season post relegation I think we have failed to progress. I think it is wrong to blame any one person because I think there have been failures at all levels from the players on the pitch, managers, back room staff to very top at board room level. Not one of them may have been huge glaring misstakes but they have added up and resulted in us being in this position.

 

[quote user="tom cavendish"]Delia does not select the team, nor decide upon tactics, and does not decide which players are bought and sold. She does not even have much of a say in appointing managers as she leaves that to others.[/quote]Whilst I would agree that she is not the only one involved in this process I would argue strongly against any suggestion that she does not have any involvment what-so-ever. Especially when she clearly states in press releases after the appointment of recent managers that she is involved in the process.

 

[quote user="tom cavendish"]As for billionaire Peter Cullum why has he not even given money to ''help the club'' fund even a single player? Carl Moore has done that.Cullum says he would help if the club went into Administration - the club would then be dirt cheap and sat on prime land. [/quote]Cullum is not that stupid, if he is truly interested in the club then he is waiting for them to beg him to take it at which point he can name his price. He won''t let it go into administration because then we are talking about relegation and the club being worth less and having to sell all of our players and looking like doing a "Luton" rather than a "Leeds". The club would be worth nothing then and I dare say our gates would return to what they were before.

[Bobert 0]

[quote user="Potless Percy "]

[quote user="Bobert"]In my opinion if it had not been for Delia and her husband there would not be a Club for her detractors to moan about. The fact that these same moaners can only resort to swearing and cursing and calling her supporters names supports my view. If Norwich were mid table in the Premiership they would still be swearing and cursing because they are not bright enough of inteligent enough to win an arguement. The future of commercial football in England is two leagues of equal standing and the available funding to be shared. The situation that Norwich is in has nothing to do with Delia or the Board it is due entirely to the greed of the Premiership Clubs. They and their owners sold football short in England and we are consequently suffering.[/quote]

Delia is wonderful, anything that goes wrong is someone else''s fault.  You really are in lala land.

 

[/quote]

Over the months I have read your posts you never seem to add anything to an arguement I am sorry to say. No where do I say Delia is wonderful and it really does not matter if she is or she isn''t. What is wrong with Championshuip football is the system where individual clubs strive to reach the Glory Land of the Premiership instead of making the Championship as good as the Premiership. Why don''t you pick up on that point?

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Bobert"][quote user="Potless Percy "]

[quote user="Bobert"]In my opinion if it had not been for Delia and her husband there would not be a Club for her detractors to moan about. The fact that these same moaners can only resort to swearing and cursing and calling her supporters names supports my view. If Norwich were mid table in the Premiership they would still be swearing and cursing because they are not bright enough of inteligent enough to win an arguement. The future of commercial football in England is two leagues of equal standing and the available funding to be shared. The situation that Norwich is in has nothing to do with Delia or the Board it is due entirely to the greed of the Premiership Clubs. They and their owners sold football short in England and we are consequently suffering.[/quote]

Delia is wonderful, anything that goes wrong is someone else''s fault.  You really are in lala land.

[/quote]

Over the months I have read your posts you never seem to add anything to an arguement I am sorry to say. No where do I say Delia is wonderful and it really does not matter if she is or she isn''t. What is wrong with Championshuip football is the system where individual clubs strive to reach the Glory Land of the Premiership instead of making the Championship as good as the Premiership. Why don''t you pick up on that point?

[/quote]

Good points. But to be fair, League 1 & 2 clubs look on with envy at the TV money recieved by the Championship - in the same way as Championship clubs look at the Prem TV money.

The whole distrubution of TV money needs to be looked at, and far more money needs to filter its way down the leagues even to local level rather than it just ending up in the pockets of a few players.

[Bobert 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="Bobert"]In my opinion if it had not been for Delia and her husband there would not be a Club for her detractors to moan about. The fact that these same moaners can only resort to swearing and cursing and calling her supporters names supports my view. If Norwich were mid table in the Premiership they would still be swearing and cursing because they are not bright enough of inteligent enough to win an arguement. The future of commercial football in England is two leagues of equal standing and the available funding to be shared. The situation that Norwich is in has nothing to do with Delia or the Board it is due entirely to the greed of the Premiership Clubs. They and their owners sold football short in England and we are consequently suffering.[/quote]

Ummm, it`s "intelligent" and "argument"......

Your last sentence is a weak-minded cop-out.  Every club in our league bar the ones with parachute payments are in the same boat as us-as were Hull and Stoke last season.  Most haven`t had the parachute payments, player sales, gate receipts, sponsorship etc. we`ve enjoyed in recent years yet most are in a far better position than us in every way.

[/quote]

I had an English Master who was so concerned with spelling errors and his red pencil  that he failed to understand the content of what I had written. Thankfully external examiners have never been of a like mind and your remark " most are in a far better position than us in every way" is an equal "cop out". My point is that blaming Deliah gets us nowhere. We need to look at the structure of Championship and Premiership Football and we need to make the Champiionship equal is stature to the Premiership. One of the ways this can be done to to stop promotion and demotion. 

[Glutton for Punishment 0]

And maybe all the clubs could draw every week so that no-one can ''come second''. That would be nice........

[nutty nigel 7,656]

[quote user="Peter Thorne"]

You''re probably right. However I do have enough intelligence to identify the staggering extent to which our expectations have been managed.

Let me say this. You have been one of this board''s consistently most thoughtful and well reasoned contributors, but here is what I and possibly others find so frustrating about you and some others of a similar viewpoint over these issues (which may account for some of the ire/arrogance you detect in other posters.)

At the point of each successive debacle over the last 3 years, I believe you have rightfully acknowledged the mistakes made by our board, but using (again) well reasoned arguments, dismissed them as ordinary or expected "blips" on a path to wider recovery. Now, as that recovery has failed to materialise (rather we are in our worst state for decades) it seems like you have selectively failed to accumulate those acknowledgements, your OWN criticisms, to ultimately take a firm stance on the way the club is obviously being run. Rather, you have now reframed that same period (or gone entirely along with the board''s reframing) as a inevitable symptom of wider changes within football, or even as a relative success.

This, as Mello would say, is "flibbery-flubbery flip-flopping" and entirely paints the picture of someone who would die before condemning an obviously failing regime.

[/quote]

I''m sure you do really have more intelligence than me Peter. I said what I said because I''m quite happy to debate wherever you want to debate. You obviously wanted to trade insults and I''m always up for that. But if you want to discuss football related stuff then I''m up for that too.

Now there''s many posters on here who at the time thought the restaurants and hotel were a good idea. Mr Carrow is one and your hero mello is another. Later they change their minds, which they are quite entitled to do. However, in the real world,  it''s too late to change your mind if the projects are already built. Now I will admit to anyone who asks that I don''t know if these investments are a good idea or not. They were made with a long term view. Maybe the board have now flip flopped like Mr Carrow and Mello but of course in the real world they can''t undo what has been done.

Now I will give you the biggest mistakes that I believe this board have made. The first was appointing Hamilton with Rioch and then carrying on with him when Rioch left. The second was not backing Worthy at the beginning of 06/07 when he wanted Hulse or Howard. The third was bringing in Grant and allowing the craziest transfer window to take place in the summer of 2007. I could add to that sacking Worthy but they really didn''t have any choice. It was forced on them by fan power if you like and it''s not something I believe we should be proud of. I could add to that not signing Ashton or Crouch at the beginning of 04/05 but again I give then the benefit because I''m not sure they could. Now that''s enough for many of you to wail for the board to go but it isn''t me. Managerial appointments are not an exact science. If you think our board have performed particularly poorly in this area then I suggest you look at the link below and see how others have performed.

http://www.leaguemanagers.com/index.html

To balance the criticism you have to also recognise thing that the board has done well. And also recognise the fact that when recognising the mistake that was Peter Grant they put their hands back in their pockets to try put it right. If you still want them out that''s your prerogative but there is still no guarantee of future success. Our track record of getting people out hasn''t been outstanding has it? Chase for Smith and you don''t like that. Worthy for Grant and you don''t like that either.

Peter, are you an expert and can you prove to me that this board have failed us? Can you say where they have gone wrong and what they should have done? Or are you one of the disappointed fickle football fans Peter Cullum referred to the other week.

 

[Camuldonum 0]

 

My clubs are Colchester United and Lincoln City.  I''m proud of both of them and I do not envy any other club nor TV money nor do I envy any others in whichever division they are.

 

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]

 

My clubs are Colchester United and Lincoln City.  I''m proud of both of them and I do not envy any other club nor TV money nor do I envy any others in whichever division they are.

[/quote]

The Boards of L1 and L2 clubs envy the TV money given to the Championship & Premiership clubs and would love to have a greater share.