Good Cop/Bad Cop - Was This The AGM Strategy

[YankeeCanary 0]

No, I''m not speaking about Mr. Tilson here. It just seems to me, from this distant shore, that if the shareholders mood ( judging by posters on here ) in advance of the AGM was to be loaded for bear as far as Delia/ Michael and the Board were concerned. Then, judging by some of the attendees reactions during and after the meeting, most of the hostility was directed to Glenn Roeder. If one was just the tiniest bit suspicious it''s not too difficult to believe that a club strategy was discussed in advance of the meeting as to the best way to minimize criticism of the Board during the meeting. Glenn chips in with the good cop/bad cop suggestion. "Let me take the heat", he says ( allegedly ) "and, Delia, you can be statesmanlike in what you have to say."

Well done the Board.....poor fans outfoxed again. Possibly next time, instead of NCISA organising a meeting over alcoholic refreshments to figure out which questions to ask, it would be better to hold a strategy meeting in the St. Andrews "War Room" over pineapple juice.  

    

[YankeeCanary 0]

CORRECTION

No, I''m not speaking about Mr. Tilson here. It just seems to me, from this distant shore, that if the shareholders mood ( judging by posters on here ) in advance of the AGM was to be loaded for bear as far as Delia/ Michael and the Board were concerned then, judging by some of the attendees reactions during and after the meeting, most of the hostility was directed to Glenn Roeder. If one was just the tiniest bit suspicious it''s not too difficult to believe that a club strategy was discussed in advance of the meeting as to the best way to minimize criticism of the Board during the meeting. Glenn chips in with the good cop/bad cop suggestion. "Let me take the heat", he says ( allegedly ) "and, Delia, you can be statesmanlike in what you have to say."

Well done the Board.....poor fans outfoxed again. Possibly next time, instead of NCISA organising a meeting over alcoholic refreshments to figure out which questions to ask, it would be better to hold a strategy meeting in the St. Andrews "War Room" over pineapple juice.  

[alex_ncfc 686]

CORRECTION

"Bollocks"

There, you could have saved all that time YC.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Hi Yankee, it''s an interesting theory, but you are forgetting a vital something, our good old board of gentlemen are just not that smart. For FS they don''t even have a business plan!! Not really, they admitted it.

Having seen Roeder at the last Open Day forum and at the NCISA meeting I can confirm he really is like that all the time, only on Tuesday he was on his finest form.

Fans outfoxed, don''t think so. It''s true a lot of the questions were aimed at Roeder, but this is a football club (well allegedly!) so I suppose some of the shareholders wanted to get a few gripes of their chests.

If it were all a plan I think the Board would have anticipated the atmosphere created by Roeder''s outbursts. From where I was standing Delia, Michael and Michael Foulger were looking very uncomfortable as he ranted at the crowd. If they weren''t that bothered and it was all a plan they are good actors!

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Hi Yankee, it''s an interesting theory, but you are forgetting a vital something, our good old board of gentlemen are just not that smart. For FS they don''t even have a business plan!! Not really, they admitted it. Having seen Roeder at the last Open Day forum and at the NCISA meeting I can confirm he really is like that all the time, only on Tuesday he was on his finest form. Fans outfoxed, don''t think so. It''s true a lot of the questions were aimed at Roeder, but this is a football club (well allegedly!) so I suppose some of the shareholders wanted to get a few gripes of their chests. If it were all a plan I think the Board would have anticipated the atmosphere created by Roeder''s outbursts. From where I was standing Delia, Michael and Michael Foulger were looking very uncomfortable as he ranted at the crowd. If they weren''t that bothered and it was all a plan they are good actors![/quote]

Thanks for the response gazza. There was a bit of "the tease" in my comment. However, I would be very surprised if the group came into that meeting without having held any prior discussion. They must have anticipated a fair amount of criticism. If I was the owner of the club ( or any other business ) I would not have been going into an AGM without an outline of how I want my group to react to criticism. As you say, perhaps I''m giving them too much credit.

Good luck tomorrow! I hope it''s a good performance and result. 

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Hi Yankee, it''s an interesting theory, but you are forgetting a vital something, our good old board of gentlemen are just not that smart. For FS they don''t even have a business plan!! Not really, they admitted it. Having seen Roeder at the last Open Day forum and at the NCISA meeting I can confirm he really is like that all the time, only on Tuesday he was on his finest form. Fans outfoxed, don''t think so. It''s true a lot of the questions were aimed at Roeder, but this is a football club (well allegedly!) so I suppose some of the shareholders wanted to get a few gripes of their chests. If it were all a plan I think the Board would have anticipated the atmosphere created by Roeder''s outbursts. From where I was standing Delia, Michael and Michael Foulger were looking very uncomfortable as he ranted at the crowd. If they weren''t that bothered and it was all a plan they are good actors![/quote]

Thanks for the response gazza. There was a bit of "the tease" in my comment. However, I would be very surprised if the group came into that meeting without having held any prior discussion. They must have anticipated a fair amount of criticism. If I was the owner of the club ( or any other business ) I would not have been going into an AGM without an outline of how I want my group to react to criticism. As you say, perhaps I''m giving them too much credit.

Good luck tomorrow! I hope it''s a good performance and result. 

[/quote]

I would be quite amazed if there was not a Cabinet meeting in advance.  That REALLY would be unprofessional.[:|]

"Let''s go along and see what happens..................."

I think not.

Aren''t NCISA contemplating "lines to take?" as they say in all government press offices, past and present.

Blimey.

[Daphne 0]

Yankee, you might be onto something! Although Delia looked as if she wished she was somewhere else for most of the meeting, it could be that she wasn''t reacting to Glenn''s protracted rants - but she really did wish she was elsewhere.

There was a bit of banter between Glenn and Munby about the fact that they couldn''t see each other because of the layout of the room - Glenn said this was just as well!

I am sure they had a careful plan for the meeting - and that they were not displeased with the outcome

[gazzathegreat 0]

Sorry Yankee, I was too tired to think straight last night! Strategy, er no, they actually admitted late on in the evening that they didn''t have one and asked the assembled what to do. And that, is gospel. As one shareholder said to them, they couldn''t organise the proverbial do in a brewery!

[T 191]

...other than continue to look for new investors what can they do though in reality? There are no easy solutions

[Kathy 823]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

No, I''m not speaking about Mr. Tilson here. It just seems to me, from this distant shore, that if the shareholders mood ( judging by posters on here ) in advance of the AGM was to be loaded for bear as far as Delia/ Michael and the Board were concerned. Then, judging by some of the attendees reactions during and after the meeting, most of the hostility was directed to Glenn Roeder. If one was just the tiniest bit suspicious it''s not too difficult to believe that a club strategy was discussed in advance of the meeting as to the best way to minimize criticism of the Board during the meeting. Glenn chips in with the good cop/bad cop suggestion. "Let me take the heat", he says ( allegedly ) "and, Delia, you can be statesmanlike in what you have to say."

Well done the Board.....poor fans outfoxed again. Possibly next time, instead of NCISA organising a meeting over alcoholic refreshments to figure out which questions to ask, it would be better to hold a strategy meeting in the St. Andrews "War Room" over pineapple juice.  

    

[/quote]

Blimey Yankee. You are either telepathic or you''ve read my Pinkun article this week!

[Jonncfc 28]

Initially I was a bit surprised that most of the questions were going Roeder''s way and it seemed at the time that the Board were getting off a bit lightly but having thought about it there was probably little point in asking them the same questions over and over again as they''d already answered them.  How are the finances - we''re broke; is there any money for signings in January - no; is there any sign of anyone putting money into the Club or taking it over - no; what are you doing to attract a buyer - we''ve engaged Keith Harris; what is your 5-year plan - we don''t have one, but then again perhaps we do but we''re not going to tell you what it is; what are you going to do to get us out of this mess - don''t know, any ideas?

All in all, not a good evening for the Board.

[T 191]

....and I have not seen anyone come up with any ideas yet..

[jetstream 0]

From the official site messageboard:

------

Here''s a simple idea - and achievable in the current climate.

1. Thank Roger Munby for his time/tenure as Chairman bt ask him to step down.

2. Contact one of the people who have been interested in investing a moderate amount of money and appoint them as the new Chairman on the basis that they (a) buy a small % of shares, and (b) put a six-figure sum in each year. This person should be a dynamic businessman/woman with fresh ideas on how to take the CLub forward, an entrepreneur rather than a PR specialist.

3. Seek out a new CEO. Whether you think Mr Doncaster has or hasn''t done a good job, I think he''s become a bit stale in the post and we need a fresh start from someone who could bring in some new ideas/approaches.

4. Pay the new CEO a lower salary (c £120k) and use the balance to appoint a new Head of Sales/Marketing. Tis would (again) bring in some new ideas on the S/M front and also mean that the CEO could get on with running the Club.

I''d also consider increasing the size of the Board and inviting in a few more directors for smaller amounts of money (as per the Chairman above) - more brain power, spread the investment around the room etc.

-------

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Kathy"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[/quote]

Blimey Yankee. You are either telepathic or you''ve read my Pinkun article this week!

[/quote]

Kathy, is your article already in print or is yet to be printed in the Pink ''Un? I was not able to ffind anything there currently.

[jetstream 0]

*Tumble weed*

[lucky green trainers 0]

it seems to me the boards strategy is to tough/bluff it out until the economic crisis stabilizes - at which point they will hope to sell to the highest bidder,,,i would guess they believe this could happen at the end of the season, assuming we retain our champs status,,,but what if, the economic conditions worsened,,,the recession became deeper and entrenched into a worldwide depression??? or if we were relegated???imo - to get ahead of this curve - the following points should be seriously entertained,,, 1 - there are no cash rich billionaire buyers interested in buying a club like NCFC...2 - the club is virtually worthless presently, and if the world recession is deeper than feared, or even turns into a great depression - this will be the case for the foreseeable future3 - if a depression unfolds, (my best guess is this is a 50-50 possibility) the club will likely go under, unless the smiths are prepared to cover any losses over a long period of time - maybe 2-3 years,,,and possibly as much as upto £4-8m..4 - their strategy would in any case implode if we were relegated,,,and without adequate funding, this is more likely,,,so, in the above set of conditions - the smiths could stand to lose more money by continuing to bail the club out, but with no prospect of a quick (if any) return,,,imo they should seriously ask themselves if this is a burden they would be prepared to take,,,hand on heart - ''should i stay or should i go?''if i was them, given my track record since promotion, i would look to exit pdq and write off my losses...this would be my strategy,,,admit the club is a busted flush, and look to sell it lock,stock and barrel with no pre-conditions (except as follows) for a pepercorn £1 to a consortium of cash rich investors - who are prepared to invest £5-8m each into the club - which is on top of refinancing the current debt - similar to what happened at derby and sunderland,,,hopefully an enlarged board of 4-6 investors could put £20-30m in between them,,,they would have control over what they wanted to do with the rest of the staff etc...then, i''d take a round the world cruise for 4 months and forget NCFC ever existed...see - its easy if you want too,,, 

[Kathy 823]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Kathy"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[/quote]

Blimey Yankee. You are either telepathic or you''ve read my Pinkun article this week!

[/quote]

Kathy, is your article already in print or is yet to be printed in the Pink ''Un? I was not able to ffind anything there currently.

[/quote]

 

Its up now Yankee but I got well and truly edited!

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Kathy"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Kathy"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[/quote]

Blimey Yankee. You are either telepathic or you''ve read my Pinkun article this week!

[/quote]

Kathy, is your article already in print or is yet to be printed in the Pink ''Un? I was not able to ffind anything there currently.

[/quote]

Its up now Yankee but I got well and truly edited!

[/quote]

I read it a few minutes ago Kathy before seeing your response here. If you have a couple of minutes send me a pm outlining the salient points that were removed. I''d be interested in your perspective.

[lucky green trainers 0]

bump,,,come on then you accountant types...surely in the current economic malaise, it makes perfect sense for the NCFC board to sell up (for as little as £1) and go???its gotta be a case of throwing good money after bad, with no certainty of a return for 12 months plus??? it could be 18months before the smiths have a hope of getting £4-6m back, and how much more would they have to put in to do that £2-3m??? and then theres the turners loans???  in your opinions - would you be advising clients to sell and go now, or keep trading until the world economic situation settles???

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]bump,,,

come on then you accountant types...

surely in the current economic malaise, it makes perfect sense for the NCFC board to sell up (for as little as £1) and go???

its gotta be a case of throwing good money after bad, with no certainty of a return for 12 months plus??? it could be 18months before the smiths have a hope of getting £4-6m back, and how much more would they have to put in to do that £2-3m??? and then theres the turners loans??? 

in your opinions - would you be advising clients to sell and go now, or keep trading until the world economic situation settles???


[/quote]

Well, I''m not an accountant type, but it seems that even if they could find a buyer for a quid, they''ve still got to find someone who can pump 3 million + into the club just for it to stand still.  Finding people with 3 million + to burn every year, and who are willing to take abuse if the club does badly, are funnily enough, hard to find.  Especially right now with everyone buying tinned beans from Lidls.  The unique thing about this crisis is that it is effecting every market sector.  The only hope is that another rich masochist turns up, as far as I can see.  Either that or one of them Oil Sheiks, who could pay for us to get into the Premiership with a cheque they''d usually wipe their nose with.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

Hopefully the knock-on effects of this recession will eventually start to trickle down and hit footballers hard in their pockets. If NCFC footballers were only paid a couple of thousand a week (let''s face it, that is still a fantastic remuneration for about 20 hours of work a week) there would be no financial crisis at Carrow Road - in fact, the club would be pretty buoyant. Still, I guess while players in the Premiership, such as Ronaldo, are hoping for £170,000 a week for their "labours" it will be a little while before economic reality hits home.

[Mr.Carrow 394]

[quote user="T"]....and I have not seen anyone come up with any ideas yet..[/quote]

The cash from all those off-pitch investments will be rolling in soon to pay for quality players to push us into the Prem won`t it T?  I mean, that was the plan wasn`t it?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="T"]....and I have not seen anyone come up with any ideas yet..[/quote]

The cash from all those off-pitch investments will be rolling in soon to pay for quality players to push us into the Prem won`t it T?  I mean, that was the plan wasn`t it?

[/quote]

Spoken like someone who has never had to make a tough decision in his life, I''d venture.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]bump,,,come on then you accountant types...surely in the current economic malaise, it makes perfect sense for the NCFC board to sell up (for as little as £1) and go???its gotta be a case of throwing good money after bad, with no certainty of a return for 12 months plus??? it could be 18months before the smiths have a hope of getting £4-6m back, and how much more would they have to put in to do that £2-3m??? and then theres the turners loans???  in your opinions - would you be advising clients to sell and go now, or keep trading until the world economic situation settles???

[/quote]

Well, I''m not an accountant type, but it seems that even if they could find a buyer for a quid, they''ve still got to find someone who can pump 3 million + into the club just for it to stand still.  Finding people with 3 million + to burn every year, and who are willing to take abuse if the club does badly, are funnily enough, hard to find.  Especially right now with everyone buying tinned beans from Lidls.  The unique thing about this crisis is that it is effecting every market sector.  The only hope is that another rich masochist turns up, as far as I can see.  Either that or one of them Oil Sheiks, who could pay for us to get into the Premiership with a cheque they''d usually wipe their nose with.

[/quote]probably very close to the truth blah x 3 - and if this is so - then it shows how the economic landscape has shifted in little more than 6 months - then there was talk at the royal norfolk show of extra investment, we had the aviva sponsorship announced with cheshire cat grins all around, the wealthy turners were going through the whole club with a fine financial toothcomb, we were able to rebuff cullum with a £56m price-tag,,,roeder seemed to getting a half-decent squad together...oh yeah - opportunities afoot at every turn,,,but if the turners leaving was the first dollop of crud hitting the fan, we''ve been ahead of the footy downturn curve - and while the board has been fiddling, rome in the shape of the banking crisis has certainly been flaming,,,and those fires have spread to the ordinary punters real economy...leaving as you say the prospect of finding wealthy benefactors as difficult as finding a winning lottery ticket thats been dropped in the mall...sadly for the smiths - it seems the likely value of NCFC at the mo is zilch...

[Mr.Carrow 394]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="T"]....and I have not seen anyone come up with any ideas yet..[/quote]

The cash from all those off-pitch investments will be rolling in soon to pay for quality players to push us into the Prem won`t it T?  I mean, that was the plan wasn`t it?

[/quote]

Spoken like someone who has never had to make a tough decision in his life, I''d venture.

[/quote]

Shall i provide a personal history and c.v. to help with your assumptions, preconceptions and projections blah, or shall we stick to discussing NCFC?

[Mr.Carrow 394]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="T"]....and I have not seen anyone come up with any ideas yet..[/quote]

The cash from all those off-pitch investments will be rolling in soon to pay for quality players to push us into the Prem won`t it T?  I mean, that was the plan wasn`t it?

[/quote]

Come on T, when are the carparks, offices, new pitch/ticket office/scoreboard/Colney conservatory/press facilities/kitchen equipment/, club 101 facility, "spaces for sport" facility etc., etc. going to ride to the clubs financial rescue??