People moan about a lack of spending but.....

[Tom NCFC 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/7430745.stm

I know Norwich and Gretna are not in the same situation but it does make you wonder why people what want us to risk everything for a push to promotion. I know that if we did get into the Prem again by risking everything, the financial benefits would be very good but personally i''d prefer a club who finishes in the middle of the Championship than a club that no longer exists due to over spending.

Everyone has their own opionon but surely the board are doing the best thing by limiting the spending and although it is a tough pill to swallow, it is the realistic way to run a football club. I''m not saying the board are perfect because they are not but people give them a hard time for not spending millions and millions on a club who may or may not achieve promotion. Those people should considering the consquences of Norwich if the debt went up and became unmanageable without any gain.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Try this for an alternative scenario:

However if the football is not entertaining and/or we are not in the hunt for a playoff position then NCFC risk falling season ticket sales over time (we have GR. to thank for keeping 08/09 season ticket sales high) which will result in a smaller football related budget. This will then effect the quality of the squad and future performances, which will then impact on peoples decision to renew their season tickets and so on......    NCFC have strained their fans patience but for how much longer? 

 

Prudence with no ambition almost got us relegated last season. Do you want NCFC to have another go at getting relegated?

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

This thread stinks of just creating an argument!!!!

[Tom NCFC 0]

[quote user="Canary Nut"]

Try this for an alternative scenario:

However if the football is not entertaining and/or we are not in the hunt for a playoff position then NCFC risk falling season ticket sales over time (we have GR. to thank for keeping 08/09 season ticket sales high) which will result in a smaller football related budget. This will then effect the quality of the squad and future performances, which will then impact on peoples decision to renew their season tickets and so on......    NCFC have strained their fans patience but for how much longer? 

 

Prudence with no ambition almost got us relegated last season. Do you want NCFC to have another go at getting relegated?

[/quote]

Did I say, I want Norwich to spend £0? My only point is that people who expect us to pump in millions more than we can actually afford should think of the consquences. Nowhere in my post did I say we must not spend anything!

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

Do you honestly see any comparisons between us and Gretna though?  Seriously?

Read the article and the administrators quotes about the club.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote]

This thread stinks of just creating an argument!!!!

[/quote]

Does not!

[Tom NCFC 0]

It seems like every post these days ends up in a argument SWP, the forum isn''t what it was when I joined. You used to be able to voice an opionon without fear of a backlash.

[Tom NCFC 0]

 

Surely you must agree that every club has the potential to ruin itself with overspending SWP?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

This is a very sad case of the wealthy backer of Gretna suffering from a Brain infection.  The guy had not named anyone to control his wealth under these circumstances and funding to Gretna stopped.

In this case their is noone to continue to pay the bills at Gretna that otherwise he would be funding.

 

It is absolutely nothing like our situation.

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

Yeah but come on Tom there is an opinion and then an opinion.  If you said you were concerned we would go the way of say Luton then that could possibly have more credence.

Gretna were basically a team bankrolled by one man, no other income really.  He paid for them to get into the Premier League, then got ill and, either through him or his family, withdrew all financial backing.  The club from then was just not a viable prospect.  Doncaster got a ribbing when referring to them in one of his articles and rightly so.

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

I do agree that some people on here are overly argumentative nowadays though!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

This is a very sad case of the wealthy backer of Gretna suffering from a Brain infection.  The guy had not named anyone to control his wealth under these circumstances and funding to Gretna stopped.

In this case their is noone to continue to pay the bills at Gretna that otherwise he would be funding.

 

It is absolutely nothing like our situation.

[/quote]

Also I think he himself ran out of money!

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

Never heard of a whiff of trouble with them under he became ill.  Would be interesting to know what the feelings towards Gretna are in Scotland, are they just seen as a millionaires plaything and good riddance?

[Tom NCFC 0]

"SWP = Poor Man''s Ruel Fox!!"

Yeah but come on Tom there is an opinion and then an opinion.  If you said you were concerned we would go the way of say Luton then that could possibly have more credence.

Gretna were basically a team bankrolled by one man, no other income really.  He paid for them to get into the Premier League, then got ill and, either through him or his family, withdrew all financial backing.  The club from then was just not a viable prospect.  Doncaster got a ribbing when referring to them in one of his articles and rightly so.

 

Actually SWP you are right, Luton would have been a far better comparison to use, it was just a case of the Gretna article was there today and thats what triggered this thread.

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="Canary Nut"]

Try this for an alternative scenario:

However if the football is not entertaining and/or we are not in the hunt for a playoff position then NCFC risk falling season ticket sales over time (we have GR. to thank for keeping 08/09 season ticket sales high) which will result in a smaller football related budget. This will then effect the quality of the squad and future performances, which will then impact on peoples decision to renew their season tickets and so on......    NCFC have strained their fans patience but for how much longer? 

 

Prudence with no ambition almost got us relegated last season. Do you want NCFC to have another go at getting relegated?

[/quote]

Spot on CN, your vision of a potential future for N.C. is unfortunately a very real possibility. And if GR doesn''t get a realistic ransfer kitty then he will walk away.

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="Tom NCFC"]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/7430745.stm

I know Norwich and Gretna are not in the same situation but it does make you wonder why people what want us to risk everything for a push to promotion. I know that if we did get into the Prem again by risking everything, the financial benefits would be very good but personally i''d prefer a club who finishes in the middle of the Championship than a club that no longer exists due to over spending.

Everyone has their own opionon but surely the board are doing the best thing by limiting the spending and although it is a tough pill to swallow, it is the realistic way to run a football club. I''m not saying the board are perfect because they are not but people give them a hard time for not spending millions and millions on a club who may or may not achieve promotion. Those people should considering the consquences of Norwich if the debt went up and became unmanageable without any gain.

[/quote]

Hi Neil.

[Desi Rascall 0]

[quote user="Tom NCFC"]"SWP = Poor Man''s Ruel Fox!!"

Yeah but come on Tom there is an opinion and then an opinion.  If you said you were concerned we would go the way of say Luton then that could possibly have more credence.

Gretna were basically a team bankrolled by one man, no other income really.  He paid for them to get into the Premier League, then got ill and, either through him or his family, withdrew all financial backing.  The club from then was just not a viable prospect.  Doncaster got a ribbing when referring to them in one of his articles and rightly so.

 

Actually SWP you are right, Luton would have been a far better comparison to use, it was just a case of the Gretna article was there today and thats what triggered this thread.

[/quote]

But Luton got into trouble after selling off their best players, failing to replace them adequately and spiraling down the table into relegation, no comparison there shurely?

Seriously relegation to div 1means an instant loss of £1.9 million of television money plus whatever knock on effect it has on attendence and sponsorship money. Its enough to tip most clubs into recievership. Now for the last three seasons we have seen a steady decline in the quality of our squad to the point that we would struggle to fill the team sheet if the season was brought forward to tommorrow.Now in itself it wouldn''t matter so much if the names on the books were bonafide stars,but lets face it with the excepttion of Pattinson these are the same players that struggled under grants tenure, and after a heartening start failed to find any degree of consistency as the season wore on. Its alright for doncaster and mumby to keep coming up with new buzzwords, like ,think smarter,modest squads go along way,prudence with ambition,and community club foe community people,but on the field we need to spend some serious infrastructure, not to mount a promotion push,but simply to keep our heads above water.

[7rew 0]

[quote]Never heard of a whiff of trouble with them under he became ill.  Would be interesting to know what the feelings towards Gretna are in Scotland, are they just seen as a millionaires plaything and good riddance?[/quote]No-one in scotland cares about the millionaires plaything bit. They are happy at Gretna''s demise as they are seen as an English club.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Look Tom NCFC, how can you be taken serious when you compare Gretna with gates of under 2,000 and hardly any TV money or play sales money, to Norwich who sell out 25,000 week in week out, have sold players for big profit and also had the premiership money for 3 years? Its a joke to compare the 2.

[Paul Spector 0]

There are plenty of other comparisons - Leeds, Luton etc. Gretna was a bad choice. We can''t go the way these clubs have gone.The sad reality is, however, that we are going to need to spend millions just to stay up in this division. The lack of ambition over the past decade has put us in the position where we have no choice but to spend millions, or face plummiting through the leagues regardless.And this is coming from one of the most optimistic Norwich fans you will find...

[GMF 757]

[quote user=" Desi Rascall"][quote user="Tom NCFC"]"SWP = Poor Man''s Ruel Fox!!"

Yeah but come on Tom there is an opinion and then an opinion.  If you said you were concerned we would go the way of say Luton then that could possibly have more credence.

Gretna were basically a team bankrolled by one man, no other income really.  He paid for them to get into the Premier League, then got ill and, either through him or his family, withdrew all financial backing.  The club from then was just not a viable prospect.  Doncaster got a ribbing when referring to them in one of his articles and rightly so.

 

Actually SWP you are right, Luton would have been a far better comparison to use, it was just a case of the Gretna article was there today and thats what triggered this thread.

[/quote]

But Luton got into trouble after selling off their best players, failing to replace them adequately and spiraling down the table into relegation, no comparison there shurely?

Seriously relegation to div 1means an instant loss of £1.9 million of television money plus whatever knock on effect it has on attendence and sponsorship money. Its enough to tip most clubs into recievership. Now for the last three seasons we have seen a steady decline in the quality of our squad to the point that we would struggle to fill the team sheet if the season was brought forward to tommorrow.Now in itself it wouldn''t matter so much if the names on the books were bonafide stars,but lets face it with the excepttion of Pattinson these are the same players that struggled under grants tenure, and after a heartening start failed to find any degree of consistency as the season wore on. Its alright for doncaster and mumby to keep coming up with new buzzwords, like ,think smarter,modest squads go along way,prudence with ambition,and community club foe community people,but on the field we need to spend some serious infrastructure, not to mount a promotion push,but simply to keep our heads above water.

[/quote]

One of the reasons why Luton got themselves into such a mess was because, at one stage, players wages were 120% of their total turnover. That''s why their replacements were so much cheaper!

 

[Desi Rascall 0]

that and their failure to find a new site to relocate to royally screwed them

[Saint Canary 0]

The same old tired reason for not spending.  Look at Leeds, look at Luton etc etc.  The truth is no one expects us to spend silly money that we do not have.  I just expect the club to spend money we "do" have.  Getting relegated from the Prem whislt making profit was not prudent.  Break even, fair enough but we have had or 4 seasons of profit and yet we are told there is no money.  There is being prudent, then there is being afraid to spend.I just wish the board would learn from the one success we had and it was when we spent some money.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"][quote user="Canary Nut"]

Try this for an alternative scenario:

However if the football is not entertaining and/or we are not in the hunt for a playoff position then NCFC risk falling season ticket sales over time (we have GR. to thank for keeping 08/09 season ticket sales high) which will result in a smaller football related budget. This will then effect the quality of the squad and future performances, which will then impact on peoples decision to renew their season tickets and so on......    NCFC have strained their fans patience but for how much longer? 

 

Prudence with no ambition almost got us relegated last season. Do you want NCFC to have another go at getting relegated?

[/quote]

Spot on CN, your vision of a potential future for N.C. is unfortunately a very real possibility. And if GR doesn''t get a realistic ransfer kitty then he will walk away.

[/quote]

Isn''t it amusing how wrong-minded posters compliment one another. Canary Nut doesn''t seem to understand that we have the Board to thank for recruiting Glenn Roeder in the first place. Barclay Boy ( and others who offer this silly line of GR will walk if he doesn''t get what he wants ) needs to understand that, if a better opportunity had been available to Roeder, he would not have come here in the first place. Equally, if a better opportunity opens up for him, he will jump at the chance and, if another club wants him bad enough, they will work something out financially regardless of Glenn''s contractual position. This is the precarious nature of the business and whether NCFC cough up an extra million or two will weigh very little in the scheme of things. With the dominoes falling on the management positions at various Premiership clubs do you honestly believe that all managers in a similar position to Glenn Roeder are not keeping a close eye on events. Get real!

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

[quote user=" Desi Rascall"][quote user="Tom NCFC"]"SWP = Poor Man''s Ruel Fox!!"

Yeah but come on Tom there is an opinion and then an opinion.  If you said you were concerned we would go the way of say Luton then that could possibly have more credence.

Gretna were basically a team bankrolled by one man, no other income really.  He paid for them to get into the Premier League, then got ill and, either through him or his family, withdrew all financial backing.  The club from then was just not a viable prospect.  Doncaster got a ribbing when referring to them in one of his articles and rightly so.

 

Actually SWP you are right, Luton would have been a far better comparison to use, it was just a case of the Gretna article was there today and thats what triggered this thread.

[/quote]

But Luton got into trouble after selling off their best players, failing to replace them adequately and spiraling down the table into relegation, no comparison there shurely?

Seriously relegation to div 1means an instant loss of £1.9 million of television money plus whatever knock on effect it has on attendence and sponsorship money. Its enough to tip most clubs into recievership. Now for the last three seasons we have seen a steady decline in the quality of our squad to the point that we would struggle to fill the team sheet if the season was brought forward to tommorrow.Now in itself it wouldn''t matter so much if the names on the books were bonafide stars,but lets face it with the excepttion of Pattinson these are the same players that struggled under grants tenure, and after a heartening start failed to find any degree of consistency as the season wore on. Its alright for doncaster and mumby to keep coming up with new buzzwords, like ,think smarter,modest squads go along way,prudence with ambition,and community club foe community people,but on the field we need to spend some serious infrastructure, not to mount a promotion push,but simply to keep our heads above water.

[/quote]

 

I cant work out are you being serious or sarcastic with that sentence? 

Selling players = check

Failing to adequately replace them = check

Spiralling down the table = check

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

I''m not saying we shouldn''t spend of course, we do need to spend to improve this club and there should be money available!!

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Tom NCFC"]

It seems like every post these days ends up in a argument SWP, the forum isn''t what it was when I joined. You used to be able to voice an opionon without fear of a backlash.

[/quote]

Tom you must be joking.  When you joined in January 2006 the WO/KTF scenario was just starting to get really tasty.  Could it be that the pro-board brigade were in the majority then, and now they are not?  Get used to it.

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Tom NCFC"]

You used to be able to voice an opionon without fear of a backlash.

[/quote]

Hey Tom the above quote is quite ironic, given the following statement by yourself: 

''Did I say, I want Norwich to spend £0? My only point is that people who expect us to pump in millions more than we can actually afford should think of the consquences. Nowhere in my post did I say we must not spend anything!''

May I refer you to my original post on this thread, where did I state that you said we should spend £0?

Where have I suggested that we should spend millions of pounds regardless? However we do have to face the reality that if NCFC don''t provide entertainment and / or compete, then some of the fans may well not renew their season tickets and this will have a financial and entertainment effect.  

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

SWP stated:

''This thread stinks of just creating an argument!!''

 

Or a discussion, depending on your view......

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Barclay_Boy"][quote user="Canary Nut"]

Try this for an alternative scenario:

However if the football is not entertaining and/or we are not in the hunt for a playoff position then NCFC risk falling season ticket sales over time (we have GR. to thank for keeping 08/09 season ticket sales high) which will result in a smaller football related budget. This will then effect the quality of the squad and future performances, which will then impact on peoples decision to renew their season tickets and so on......    NCFC have strained their fans patience but for how much longer? 

 

Prudence with no ambition almost got us relegated last season. Do you want NCFC to have another go at getting relegated?

[/quote]

Spot on CN, your vision of a potential future for N.C. is unfortunately a very real possibility. And if GR doesn''t get a realistic ransfer kitty then he will walk away.

[/quote]

Isn''t it amusing how wrong-minded posters compliment one another. Canary Nut doesn''t seem to understand that we have the Board to thank for recruiting Glenn Roeder in the first place. Barclay Boy ( and others who offer this silly line of GR will walk if he doesn''t get what he wants ) needs to understand that, if a better opportunity had been available to Roeder, he would not have come here in the first place. Equally, if a better opportunity opens up for him, he will jump at the chance and, if another club wants him bad enough, they will work something out financially regardless of Glenn''s contractual position. This is the precarious nature of the business and whether NCFC cough up an extra million or two will weigh very little in the scheme of things. With the dominoes falling on the management positions at various Premiership clubs do you honestly believe that all managers in a similar position to Glenn Roeder are not keeping a close eye on events. Get real!

[/quote]

 

Gosh thanks for putting me right there Yankee, I am ever so grateful for your superior wisdom, I can now see how misguided I was in supporting CN.