Pattison drink-driving

[Syteanric 1]

banned for driving for 20 months.. could be reduced to 15 if he rehabilitates himself...

Full story on the front page of this very site...

Silly silly boy Matthew! Thank your lucky stars that you just got a ban and not a prison sentence....

one thing that did catch my eye in the article was "He was whisked away from court in a football club sponsored car."

now to me that isnt sending out the right message.... ok so the club are standing by their man and thats their perogative, but surely an "unmarked" car would of been better.. anonymity for Matty and the club rather than the watching media hordes or finger pointers who may have been in attendance.

 Im still of the opinion that (and im led to believe that the mods, who wouldnt post this last time I said it until Pattison had been charged, will now post it because he has) he should be sacked by the club.

 They need to be sending out a positive message to the fans and people of Norfolk... Pattison isnt a convicted criminal.. but he HAS broken a law... any one of us on this message board could have done exactly the same thing and our employer would sack us.... no question! I feel Pattison should be treated the same way as any other employee in any other walk of business and the club should be seen to take a firm stance on this....

jas :)

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

He loses his driving licence for 20 months ( possibly being reduced to 15 months if he''s a good boy ), a 2300 pound fine and he is whisked away from the court in a football club sponsored car. Is this back to Dunston Hall to rest up or straight to the training ground to be put through double paces?

Look, all barbs aside, the young man has done wrong and let''s all hope he learns from this experience. I have to say, however, that it''s small wonder so many priviliged young people find it hard to learn the lesson. In days of old many Norwich footballers had to cycle their way to the ground. If they made a mistake like this they were likely on their way out of the club. For Pattison the punishment is whatever is going on inside of himself. The other issues are scarcely more than irritants. If he had to climb on the bus on the way from the courthouse to the training ground then possibly the point may have registered slightly greater.

For me the hero is Ben Lee, the employee at Dunston Hall. I hope nobody has the gall to even think of him as a snit. He acted responsibly because to do otherwise could have resulted in the loss of some innocent person''s life. How would Ben have felt then if he had not reported it? More to the point, how would Mr. Pattison have felt? 

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

banned for driving for 20 months.. could be reduced to 15 if he rehabilitates himself...

Full story on the front page of this very site...

Silly silly boy Matthew! Thank your lucky stars that you just got a ban and not a prison sentence....

one thing that did catch my eye in the article was "He was whisked away from court in a football club sponsored car."

now to me that isnt sending out the right message.... ok so the club are standing by their man and thats their perogative, but surely an "unmarked" car would of been better.. anonymity for Matty and the club rather than the watching media hordes or finger pointers who may have been in attendance.

 Im still of the opinion that (and im led to believe that the mods, who wouldnt post this last time I said it until Pattison had been charged, will now post it because he has) he should be sacked by the club.

 They need to be sending out a positive message to the fans and people of Norfolk... Pattison isnt a convicted criminal.. but he HAS broken a law... any one of us on this message board could have done exactly the same thing and our employer would sack us.... no question! I feel Pattison should be treated the same way as any other employee in any other walk of business and the club should be seen to take a firm stance on this....

jas :)

 

[/quote]

If we were a super rich club then I would agree with you.  However we cannot afford to throw £250,000 down the toilet.  Plus, and you will do well to remember this because you may find yourself in a similar situation one day...he is a young lad who has made a serious mistake, we forgive, forget and be thankful that no one got hurt, he has got his punishment, end of it.  He doesn''t deserve to be dragged over the coals for this.  As long as it doesn''t happen again then I think we should put this incident behind us.

[The Sweeney 0]

Absolute credit to Ben Lee whose judgement cannot be questioned. It would have been easy for him to fall under the spell of a "wonderful Norwich footballer" by turning a blind eye. Instead he responded by putting the welfare of others first-he is an absolute credit.

As for Pattison-no such thoughts crossed his mind as he chose to drive whilst twice over the limit. Hopefully the club will take some positive action instead of the patronising rubbish contained in their statement to the media. They have an important task that should see players as a role model that youngsters can learn from by example. Pattison is hardly this and whilst the court has dealt with the matter one can only hope the club do the same.

I am not holding my breath!

[Duffman 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

banned for driving for 20 months.. could be reduced to 15 if he rehabilitates himself...

Full story on the front page of this very site...

Silly silly boy Matthew! Thank your lucky stars that you just got a ban and not a prison sentence....

one thing that did catch my eye in the article was "He was whisked away from court in a football club sponsored car."

now to me that isnt sending out the right message.... ok so the club are standing by their man and thats their perogative, but surely an "unmarked" car would of been better.. anonymity for Matty and the club rather than the watching media hordes or finger pointers who may have been in attendance.

 Im still of the opinion that (and im led to believe that the mods, who wouldnt post this last time I said it until Pattison had been charged, will now post it because he has) he should be sacked by the club.

 They need to be sending out a positive message to the fans and people of Norfolk... Pattison isnt a convicted criminal.. but he HAS broken a law... any one of us on this message board could have done exactly the same thing and our employer would sack us.... no question! I feel Pattison should be treated the same way as any other employee in any other walk of business and the club should be seen to take a firm stance on this....

jas :)

 

[/quote]The thing you need to realise, and like it or not, is that being a professional footballer is not like any other job in the world.  Also, I have to say that  if I got convicted for drink driving then I dont see why I would get sacked by my employer.  As long as I make it to work everyday I cant see why it would be an issue.   I might be wrong on this if I checked with my HR but I dont think you are right on that one.

[DDD In The Fine City 1]

I got my licence back yesterday after a year ban for the same thing (driving the next day after a heavy night), the course that gets the ban reduced is very good and teaches about not only how long alcohol stays in your system but the long term affects of drinking to. The one thing that struck me about the course was the people that were there, men and women from all ages and different jobs not just young people that couldn''t give a monkeys. If the course was built into geting a driving licence it would cut the number of convictions by thousands and maybe save some lives in the process.

My boss stuck by me and gave me help getting to and from jobs until i left the company, not everyone is as lucky me. One thing that is for sure is that everyone makes mistakes and it is how they deal with those mistakes that counts and shows what type of a person they are.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="The Sweeney"]

Absolute credit to Ben Lee whose judgement cannot be questioned. It would have been easy for him to fall under the spell of a "wonderful Norwich footballer" by turning a blind eye. Instead he responded by putting the welfare of others first-he is an absolute credit.

As for Pattison-no such thoughts crossed his mind as he chose to drive whilst twice over the limit. Hopefully the club will take some positive action instead of the patronising rubbish contained in their statement to the media. They have an important task that should see players as a role model that youngsters can learn from by example. Pattison is hardly this and whilst the court has dealt with the matter one can only hope the club do the same.

I am not holding my breath!

[/quote]

What is said in the statement to the media isn''t necessarily what is said behind closed doors.  He is a young bloke who made a mistake, let him learn from it and make sure it doesn''t happen again.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Duffman"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

banned for driving for 20 months.. could be reduced to 15 if he rehabilitates himself...

Full story on the front page of this very site...

Silly silly boy Matthew! Thank your lucky stars that you just got a ban and not a prison sentence....

one thing that did catch my eye in the article was "He was whisked away from court in a football club sponsored car."

now to me that isnt sending out the right message.... ok so the club are standing by their man and thats their perogative, but surely an "unmarked" car would of been better.. anonymity for Matty and the club rather than the watching media hordes or finger pointers who may have been in attendance.

 Im still of the opinion that (and im led to believe that the mods, who wouldnt post this last time I said it until Pattison had been charged, will now post it because he has) he should be sacked by the club.

 They need to be sending out a positive message to the fans and people of Norfolk... Pattison isnt a convicted criminal.. but he HAS broken a law... any one of us on this message board could have done exactly the same thing and our employer would sack us.... no question! I feel Pattison should be treated the same way as any other employee in any other walk of business and the club should be seen to take a firm stance on this....

jas :)

 

[/quote]

The thing you need to realise, and like it or not, is that being a professional footballer is not like any other job in the world. 

Also, I have to say that  if I got convicted for drink driving then I dont see why I would get sacked by my employer.  As long as I make it to work everyday I cant see why it would be an issue.   I might be wrong on this if I checked with my HR but I dont think you are right on that one.
[/quote]

so if you were imprisoned for the offence then youd expect your company to still pay your wages whilst inside would you? Look at Grays athletic.. risking their very existence for Refusing to pay Convicted Anthony Sestanovich whilst in Prison...

 its a companies perorgative if they sack you.. i guess it all depends on the publicity they will receive.. a dent to a reputation could be massive! id doubt many people could argue "unfair dismissal" in court when the same court has just collared them for an offence really could they?

jas :)

[Jim Smith 2,339]

He''s got his punishment now lets let him get on with his career. Despite some of the holier than thou attitudes from some on here I would be willing to bet good money that 90% of the posters on this board will have driven the morning after a night out when they probably shouldn''t have, particularly when we were younger. Not condoning it just saying that it could have happened to many of us and I suspect most would not lose their jobs over it.

[ca 1]

He''s done wrong, been punished now lets hope he learns from his mistake. First offence so dont understand why some would think a prison sentence would be appropiate or that he should be sacked. Can''t imagine that many convicted drunk drivers get sacked from their jobs so why should he be treated different.

 

[Canary Tyke 0]

Kind of got my back up that last one Jas.  Will someone who is an HR guru put an end to this, my understanding is:-

1) You cannot be sacked unless having a driving license is critical to the job - i''m sure MP can afford a taxi to and from the training ground.

2) If you are imprisoned you can be sacked for non-attendance depending on what sort of company you work for ............. and how good your union is .......... but he is not in prison.

3) He has been fined in the courts .......... and hopefully a big fine from the club of 4 times that for draging their name through it, he should also then be fined for being out til 4am in Mercy (he should be strung up for being in Mercy!) he should also be berated for having the nerve to go out in the city on a day that we had lost.

4) Like everyone else has said, he has made a big mistake and been caught.  I think he probably knows he is an idiot (I wouldn''t like to tell Roeder) and yes he shouldn''t of done it.  Young man at Dunston was right to phone the police

All in all he has done wrong, he has been punished, he should feel a right ####, he hopefully knows he has been very lucky that he did not have an accident, he should learn from it and we should let him get on with his life and football.

 

[......and Smith must score. 1,362]

[quote user="The Sweeney"]

Absolute credit to Ben Lee whose judgement cannot be questioned. It would have been easy for him to fall under the spell of a "wonderful Norwich footballer" by turning a blind eye. Instead he responded by putting the welfare of others first-he is an absolute credit.........

[/quote]

This is always a tricky one.....if most of us on here had been in a similar situation to Mr Lee what would we have done ? I don''t know much background to the case but I''d like to think that I would have pointed out that I thought he ( Pattison ) was unfit to drive. Had my advice been ignored I would quite likely have rung the police but if that person had been a friend or relative that decision might not have been such an easy one to make.

As I said it''s a tricky one ......

[Stevo 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Duffman"]

The thing you need to realise, and like it or not, is that being a professional footballer is not like any other job in the world. 

Also, I have to say that  if I got convicted for drink driving then I dont see why I would get sacked by my employer.  As long as I make it to work everyday I cant see why it would be an issue.   I might be wrong on this if I checked with my HR but I dont think you are right on that one.
[/quote]

so if you were imprisoned for the offence then youd expect your company to still pay your wages whilst inside would you? Look at Grays athletic.. risking their very existence for Refusing to pay Convicted Anthony Sestanovich whilst in Prison...

 its a companies perorgative if they sack you.. i guess it all depends on the publicity they will receive.. a dent to a reputation could be massive! id doubt many people could argue "unfair dismissal" in court when the same court has just collared them for an offence really could they?

jas :)

[/quote]

There is a clear distinction on your ability to ''do your job''. If you''re in prison, you obviously can''t - hence why Lee Hughes was effectively sacked by WBA. But as Duffman says, Pattison can still play and do the job he''s contracted to and therein lies the issue with regard to employment law and what constitutes constructive dismissal.

[FU MAN SHOE 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

He loses his driving licence for 20 months ( possibly being reduced to 15 months if he''s a good boy ), a 2300 pound fine and he is whisked away from the court in a football club sponsored car. Is this back to Dunston Hall to rest up or straight to the training ground to be put through double paces?

Look, all barbs aside, the young man has done wrong and let''s all hope he learns from this experience. I have to say, however, that it''s small wonder so many priviliged young people find it hard to learn the lesson. In days of old many Norwich footballers had to cycle their way to the ground. If they made a mistake like this they were likely on their way out of the club. For Pattison the punishment is whatever is going on inside of himself. The other issues are scarcely more than irritants. If he had to climb on the bus on the way from the courthouse to the training ground then possibly the point may have registered slightly greater.

For me the hero is Ben Lee, the employee at Dunston Hall. I hope nobody has the gall to even think of him as a snit. He acted responsibly because to do otherwise could have resulted in the loss of some innocent person''s life. How would Ben have felt then if he had not reported it? More to the point, how would Mr. Pattison have felt? 

[/quote]

Matty was at Colney this morning, working hard to the finish of the session...pretty low key morning, considering!

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

He''s got his punishment now lets let him get on with his career. Despite some of the holier than thou attitudes from some on here I would be willing to bet good money that 90% of the posters on this board will have driven the morning after a night out when they probably shouldn''t have, particularly when we were younger. Not condoning it just saying that it could have happened to many of us and I suspect most would not lose their jobs over it.

[/quote]

 

I said as much on another thread, some of the holier than thou attitudes make me upset, and I say that as someone who was in a crash caused by a drunk driver.  Who the hell are those people to be both judge and jury?

[Ivana_rubyatitz 6]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

so if you were imprisoned for the offence then youd expect your company to still pay your wages whilst inside would you? Look at Grays athletic.. risking their very existence for Refusing to pay Convicted Anthony Sestanovich whilst in Prison...

 its a companies perorgative if they sack you.. i guess it all depends on the publicity they will receive.. a dent to a reputation could be massive! id doubt many people could argue "unfair dismissal" in court when the same court has just collared them for an offence really could they?

jas :)

[/quote]

Jas, whilst having some symapthy with your sentiments I must point out a couple of glaring errors in your post.

1. As others have pointed out, you could not expect an employer to pay your wages whilst imprisoned - you would by defintion not be available for work and have no justification.  I dont think anyone was suggesting this should be the case though.

2. It is not a companies perogative whether or not they sack you - they are governed by employment law and the terms and conditions of the contract of employment you have with them.  If you have a clause in your contract enabling them to do so in the event of a conviction, or indeed in the event of bringing disrepute on your employer they would be entitled to do so as you say.  If no such clause exists it would depend on your ability to do you job without a licence, hence a taxi driver would not have much of a hope but an office worker who could get to work on time by public transport and who was not required to travel to remote places as part of their routine duties ought to be ok.

3. Unfair dismissal cases are civil matters dealt with via employment tribunals and not the criminal law system so the issue would never come before the same court.

Personally I would like to have seen Pattison do some form of community service perhaps using his profile to help raise awareness of the dangers of drink driving.  However, an admission of guilt at the earliest opportunity will have got him full credit with the court and hence the comparatively lenient sentence he received.

[Gingembre 0]

the morning after??????????leaves a club at 04.30 then drives at 08.30 - that''s NOT the morning after.Come on folks

[Marty 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

He''s got his punishment now lets let him get on with his career. Despite some of the holier than thou attitudes from some on here I would be willing to bet good money that 90% of the posters on this board will have driven the morning after a night out when they probably shouldn''t have, particularly when we were younger. Not condoning it just saying that it could have happened to many of us and I suspect most would not lose their jobs over it.

[/quote]

 

Yes possibly many of us have drive the morning after but probably after maybe a few pints up till around midnight and then driving around 8-9am, in which case you''d need to be drinking very quickly or all day long to be twice over the legal limit. But 4.30am in not "last night" and only 4 hours later he''s driving, now even a footballer can do the maths for that one!

However, what is done is done, no-one harmed and let''s hope it is a lesson to him and others.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Pboro_Canary"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

so if you were imprisoned for the offence then youd expect your company to still pay your wages whilst inside would you? Look at Grays athletic.. risking their very existence for Refusing to pay Convicted Anthony Sestanovich whilst in Prison...

 its a companies perorgative if they sack you.. i guess it all depends on the publicity they will receive.. a dent to a reputation could be massive! id doubt many people could argue "unfair dismissal" in court when the same court has just collared them for an offence really could they?

jas :)

[/quote]

Jas, whilst having some symapthy with your sentiments I must point out a couple of glaring errors in your post.

1. As others have pointed out, you could not expect an employer to pay your wages whilst imprisoned - you would by defintion not be available for work and have no justification.  I dont think anyone was suggesting this should be the case though.

2. It is not a companies perogative whether or not they sack you - they are governed by employment law and the terms and conditions of the contract of employment you have with them.  If you have a clause in your contract enabling them to do so in the event of a conviction, or indeed in the event of bringing disrepute on your employer they would be entitled to do so as you say.  If no such clause exists it would depend on your ability to do you job without a licence, hence a taxi driver would not have much of a hope but an office worker who could get to work on time by public transport and who was not required to travel to remote places as part of their routine duties ought to be ok.

3. Unfair dismissal cases are civil matters dealt with via employment tribunals and not the criminal law system so the issue would never come before the same court.

Personally I would like to have seen Pattison do some form of community service perhaps using his profile to help raise awareness of the dangers of drink driving.  However, an admission of guilt at the earliest opportunity will have got him full credit with the court and hence the comparatively lenient sentence he received.

[/quote]

interesting points.. thanks for the clarity...

 

as an Aside back to Grays, the FA declared that as Sestanovich signed a contract issued by the football club they are still duty bound to pay him even though hes inside and cant play.. the chairman refuses to pay wages and the club are facing legal action from the FA as a result... google the news stories.. makes some interesting reading and might open the door for others prisoners to still be "paid" whilst in Prison.

 

jas :)

[peartreeproductions 0]

[quote user="Marty"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

He''s got his punishment now lets let him get on with his career. Despite some of the holier than thou attitudes from some on here I would be willing to bet good money that 90% of the posters on this board will have driven the morning after a night out when they probably shouldn''t have, particularly when we were younger. Not condoning it just saying that it could have happened to many of us and I suspect most would not lose their jobs over it.

[/quote]

 

Yes possibly many of us have drive the morning after but probably after maybe a few pints up till around midnight and then driving around 8-9am, in which case you''d need to be drinking very quickly or all day long to be twice over the legal limit. But 4.30am in not "last night" and only 4 hours later he''s driving, now even a footballer can do the maths for that one!

However, what is done is done, no-one harmed and let''s hope it is a lesson to him and others.

[/quote]

I agree - this is a long way removed from the morning after a night out.  If he had got in at midnight I doubt he would have thought it OK to drive at 4am!

Hopefully all the talk of we''ve all done it, and it could have been one of us can stop now that we know the facts.

[Ivana_rubyatitz 6]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

interesting points.. thanks for the clarity...

 

as an Aside back to Grays, the FA declared that as Sestanovich signed a contract issued by the football club they are still duty bound to pay him even though hes inside and cant play.. the chairman refuses to pay wages and the club are facing legal action from the FA as a result... google the news stories.. makes some interesting reading and might open the door for others prisoners to still be "paid" whilst in Prison.

 

jas :)

[/quote]

Jas - A very interesting case this actually which I was not familiar with. 

I suspect it hinges on a technicality in what may well have been either a poorly drafted contract (or indeed a well drafted one that the employer did not consider the implications of) and also the fact that the court ruled he could only claim payment up to the point of conviction.  The five months pay he was deemed eleigible for was for time he spent on remand and therefore he was still considered innocent at that point. He was prevented from playing on the basis that a court had determined he was unsuitable to be in the community either due to the seriousness of the charge, his likelihood to fail to meet bail conditions or to attempt to interfere with witnesses.  In such circumstances a contract that does not allow an employer to suspend without pay could be enforced as the player had technically not yet been found to be in the wrong and it was not his decision to be in prison.   

My own contract would allow me to claim wages in the same way up until the date of conviction at which point my employer would be entitled to instantly dismiss me for gross misconduct.

One of those situations where the letter of the law and the spirit sit uneasily.